Talk:Alleged Chemical Attack, August 21, 2013/Noirette
Noirette has started analysing and collecting videos on Moom of Alabama. I will try to collect the remarks here.
Noirette via Moon of Alabama
- Copied from Moon of Alabama:
Syria CW attack. Petri Khon on another thread wrote, quote,
What we would need to see is:
- Video of dead family killed in their home.
- Video of family member or neighbor, in situ, describing how the whole family was killed.
- Video of dead animals in situ.
- Video of the attack site, empty houses, without fresh bomb damage, abandoned in panic or cleared of dead bodies.
- Lists of victims with addresses.
- Any sign that the claimed victims ever lived in the effected areas.
Videos only, watched for 5 hours.
I am not arguing for it’s own sake, or prove anything. It is simply hallucinating that such a hullaballoo should explode on so little fact or evidence. I list some grave points of difficulty, of different types.
- There were several previous alleged CW attacks. I did not sort these out, as concerned only with the attack in the early hours of 21 aug - I accepted the date 22-25 Aug as a mistake in reporting/or as upload date.
- The foaming mouth vids (except maybe for one child) are all from pre Aug21. As are those who show women (Aleppo, May, which is clearly by pro Assad activists. No link for now.)
- The vids of all the attacks get muddled together in the MSM without proper dating. I came to the conclusion that the previous ‘attacks’ were far better documented. The bulk of vids. with consequent content are previous to Aug21. Ex Douma, May:
- None of the Aug21 vids can be securely dated by me, although a few do show scenes different from the other attacks. Maybe : something did take place but I have doubts about the amplitude, scope, etc.
- All the vids. have a somewhat staged, hyper-real air. Now this is partly natural. It is the Zeitgeist - dramatic images required. Cultural factors: No women victims are portrayed, unless dead in a shroud, completely covered with a blanket, etc. I saw not one fully dressed woman (except for med staff with scarves and a few relatives in full abayas, but they are not victims...) This in itself shows that filming was selective and the scenes ‘arranged’ by e.g. skipping the women, removing them, covering the dead ones. All the live victims suffering are men and children. Some crowd scenes contain no women at all. (Victims need to be shown partly undressed so as to appear shocking, vulnerable, etc.) So how far does the arranging go?
- Aug21 took place in the dead of night, reports from 2.00, 2.30 to 4.00. In many of the vids the dead victims (a few alive) are wearing day clothes, incl. tied shoes, belts, etc. The children, specially if wholly or partly naked, are of course ambiguous. The uncovered men all wear ‘day’ underpants, and a ‘day‘ top like a white shirt if that is shown. This is odd. There is no way that in a serious CW attack ppl got dressed to then instantly fall over and die in the street. Or bothered with belts and shoes before leaving a closed space filled with gas.
- black pants (typical day clothes vid.)
- Or a family escaping fully dressed to die on the stairs and in the street. (no link, there are too many in this post)
- Nothing much can be made of the ‘crowd dead’ scenes (lines of bodies in shrouds, or dressed, on the floor in some kind of locale, etc.) They could be from all kinds of events.
- Finer analysis shows some disturbing aspects.
Apologies for this piece-meal post. I guess it looks incoherent.
I found only a very few ‘pyjama’ and ‘night’ videos, for the night attacks of 21 Aug. The most realistic vids of alleged 21 Aug. Best docs!
yellow PJ boy
red T girl
the green vid
This is in two parts and shows a man being hosed by day, thus 5-10 hours after the attacks?
> sadly the green vid was posted on 9 (nine) August
All the above vids are most likely? from the same locale, the Douma Emergency collection facility (?) (Entrance, lay out, flooring.) This is where 213 deaths were reported. But it happened before 21 Aug as the one vid attests.
One vid from Ghouta. (150 dead reported.) Note the differing policies of the hospitals. The markings / shrouding is not done in the same way.
Many vids make a mix, even the supposed ‘raw’ footage on You tube.
Locales, times, dates, it is an unholy mess. I’m seriously left wondering.
somebody @ 40. I agree that much is fake, strange, arranged, etc.
But that the vids. could have been taken anywhere is not so. There is a lot of info but it is hard to analyze.
For CW attacks Syria few outside persons have tried to sort it out from the raw video up. I made some small, amateur, stab, not finished, though doubt I will post again here about that.
The details don’t interest. Ppl’s minds are made up. They take sides.
To conclude, without the details, the pressure of supposed, alleged, or real or partly so, CW attacks in Syria, and the vague supporting evidence grew over time, to then explode exactly after a year when Obiman pontificated about the red line.
Without solid evidence for CW attacks at all. As said before, the previous alleged attacks were far better documented, yet ignored, and not investigated.
These things take time. The evidence, such as it is, only serves one or another political faction. The game is who can impose their scenario. The facts matter not at all.
But some ppl are interested in the crude facts.
Here is one vid. Aleppo, March, pro-Assad.
Each side accuses the other.