Talk:Odessa Trade Union massacre/Denis Cherkasov Videos
Where are the videos?
I managed to download and save all the incriminating stuff inside the Trade Union building. What is missing is some 20 videos from the top of the list shot downtown. It seems that the videos were uploaded in reverse temporal order, the 4 last ones are shot in the dusk. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 09:04, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
- Interesting. From the titles I suspect that they could be interpreted as harsh "removal of the dead", or do they show actual beating/killing/burning? Can't wait to see. The filmer should be identifiable from the other video material available. --CE (talk) 12:54, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
- I could upload my copies to YouTube, but do not want to have my account blocked for "copyright violation". Was vaiting for someone else to upload. The videos from inside are available. Seems that they contained several original videos in one upload.
- What is missing but critical is a dusk scene were victims are carried out of the building, at about the time the fire starts. All have their heads smashed to ground beef. I do not know if they are dead or alive. Anyone left in that condition in the smoke would be dead soon though. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:16, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
What reason did Youtube give for pulling them? --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:01, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
- YouTube did not pull them but the pro-Ukraine uploader. The videos contained incriminating evidence, so he decided to remove them as soon as Life News published the story. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 16:34, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
- That's one of a couple possibilities I was confused about. So this nerd who usually makes 1-10-view cutesy CG animations is a right winger who briefly ventured into big-view snuff films? I'd wonder if he meant to expose them - pulling it could be to protect his friends or because "his friends" let him know the videos or him had to go. Did no one else really tape this stuff? Was there a memo he just didn't get? It seems most of this at least is unique. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:28, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
They are here!
I have finally uploaded my collection to Google Drive:
My whole folder is there, some 420 MB. I have included my original batch and two more I found last week on YouTube. The videos are directly playable from the folder. I did not want to upload anything to YouTube because of potential copyright issues. I wonder how Google Drive relates to copyright? For what it is worth, this material is now shared for research and education. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 04:08, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
- Excellent! Made your saving pay off. There are some I've been unable to find any copies of ... --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:52, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
- Did you find copies of ones that are NOT linked to on the page? If so, why did you not add a link? I have only searched under the original name, but there might have been others. Why is it our responsibility to put this material online? (Or, put an other way, why fucking me?) In case you have not noticed, it has fallen on us to save the world from WWIII or whatever trice a year. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 18:25, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
- This isn't all of them? No, counting ... 24 to 39, 15 missing ... so it's possible I found ones not on here, but if I have the link still, not sure ... I focused on other videos, since I figured you had these covered.Sorry. What I can do soon is sort out which are missing and narrow the search. Then start the search. I've been kind of pressed though lately, but saving the world, yeah, kind of important. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:20, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
- Actually, that's some correlation work that hopefully isn't necessary. Petri, do you know which 15 you're missing? If I had a simple list to check, I could use that each time I stumble across a possible match. --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:23, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
Value Assessment
It must be noted the original poster of these 39 short videos wanted them removed, for reasons we can only guess at. But perhaps to his chagrin and worry, all were saved in many places already - entered into the record. As we have this page helping to preserve that, I've been thinking I should offer this to "take the heat off" Mr. Cherkasov. And this is based on a good guess what the problem was (discussed above).
Clearly his videos do stand out for their content as well as their unusual deletion. Most of the videos in his series show non-controversial events, but the part that made news was a set of three (#27-29) that attracted early Life News article which said (auto-translated):
- ... a crowd of young men in masks and wooden sticks in their hands knocked out one of the side doors and entered the building. Next record has been going on inside the building. Militants spread all corridor - someone goes to the second floor, one begins to break in the door, behind which, apparently tried to hide Antimaydana activists. Brutal thugs literally pounce on the locked shutters. In the frame comes a woman who begs radicals stop. Frames on the record shows that some of the participants of the storm House of Trade Unions have masks. And it is possible that the assumptions of the poisoning victims Ukrainian radicals toxic substances far from the truth.
It was apparently this publicity that spurred their swift removal.
However, now that I've reviewed the bulk of available videos (that I can find) these views are not that crucial in the important sense of proving an incursion. Several other videos show dozens of armed Maidan thugs - all kinds, including some women - entering by this and another door (see here). They do not appear particularly enraged, just energized, as they enter with clubs and the like, suggesting violent intent. We can't see who among these, or among other less visible assailants, might have started which internal fire, busted open which activist's head, shot, raped, or poison-gassed exactly who. But even without a single inside view, or full proof of the crimes committed, we can be fairly sure, whatever was done, which side the perpetrators were on.
What is unique is that there was filming inside, and it was released. Others recorded the events - like this guy nearby with a nice camera. But his video and any others made were not released publicly - maybe held back for Right Sector recruitment videos? Only these three that appeared offered even a partial view actually from inside.
But then, this view is not amazing ; it shows just one corner of the ground floor and lower stairwell. It might be that cameras weren't allowed any further in, if even here (no one moves to stop the filming, that we see). That he didn't know the "don't release the videos" rule might mean Cherkasov is not a Right Sector insider, perhaps limiting his access.
But then again, this narrow view does show the mob smashing in doors to get at the people locked inside - and it does show "Flagneck" inside, perhaps starting the stairwell fire we see emerging just ahead of him and his group (described here. The very fact that these key features can both be seen in this small area, unless this was the uniquely violent corner, suggests many other corners suffered the same types of thing, or worse - away from uncontrolled cameras.
So in short, I can see why he'd want to delete them, but the world thanks Denis Cherkasov for his momentary lapse of judgment. The evidence briefly offered is not crucial, but useful. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:33, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Re-Direct
Petri, I deleted the old page without leaving a re-direct because I still don't know how. I suppose it would be best to have that though ... also, it's a bit late now, but is it wise to keep the guy's name attached when he wanted to delete them from his name? I suppose maybe not, but it's probably too late now, with any damage done. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:16, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
- Adam, you should have used "Move" in the right-hand many instead of copy-paste. I have now restored the deleted revisions and made a proper page move. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:38, 8 September 2014 (UTC)