Talk:Crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17/Witnesses

From A Closer Look On Syria
Jump to navigation Jump to search


BUK missiles

Smoke and contrails

Andrey Tarasenko, a miner who was walking home from work with a friend, said that he saw a white trail go up from the ground, then heard an explosion two seconds later, then saw smoke risking from the ground 10 seconds after that. He said he was about 10 miles away.
Andrey Tarasenko posts a video to YouTube at 14:02:38 UTC showing the smoke from the crash site.

Fighter jets

The BBC pulled this broadcast in total panic when they realized the evidence of the eye witnesses did not...
"PROOF U.S. is Lying. Delete..." The YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated due to multiple third-party notifications of copyright infringement.
  • *At the scene of the crash of MH17, Ukraine - Paris Match, 23 July, 2014
    Translation via Facebook:
    Subtitles in French "There were always commercial airplanes flying, about 10 to 15 a day. The big Malaysian one, I couldn´t see because it was in the clouds. Afterwards (! don´t know what that "afterwards" refers to) I saw far away something like a point in the sky. It went into the clouds and than - ´bang´. The pieces fell down. It went up into the clouds, you could not see it anymore and than explosion, and than more explosions. The plane came from there and flew in the direction of Rostov. The other was behind and flew like this (Shows that the "it" came from the right side to the plane). And than from the direction of Grabovo there was a huge smoke column.´
    From Russian audio (Not translated by Paris Match): "The plane (supposedly an Ukrainian fighter jet) had to be very close to it (to MH17) and then it (Ukrainian fighter jet) turned around and got to the plane (to MH17) like that..." (At that moment the men shows some sort of swing using his hand.)
он [it] видать [it appears, had to, perhaps-(he has not seen it all and making some reconstruction here, but he is quite confident it was like that)] рядом с ним шел [flying near it], и потом зашел вот так [and than it approached it like that (made a maneuver, literally 'went like that') -- (hand gesture showing a turn)] --russ, colloq. (The guy near him is Lev Alexandrovich, see below). --Resup (talk) 13:31, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Director of Torez orphanage: military planes were flying when MH-17 was shot down
  • Video: Torez orphange. How MH17 fell down | Eng Subs (original)
    On July 17th 2014 pupils of Torez orphanage went to the garden after the lunch. At first, children thought that big black birds were flying at them, but when such "birds", a man, a women and a boy fell just in their garden of the orphanage, many children were shocked. Girls of 14-15 years told that they wanted to know the truth why these people died, why the boy who fell in their garden, was without a head.
    Many nights after the tragedy of Malaysian airplane MH17 children slept badly, listening to shellings near them, at Saur Grave. After the crash of the airplane the director of the orphanage Timchenko Tatyana Vasilievna took all her 16 pupils to Odessa where children are still living in the residential compund Izumrudnyy Gorod. Timchenko herself came back to Donetsk region to help children left orphan. Now there are more than 20 people of the personnel - nurses, teachers, cookers bring up two children.
    "Heroes of our age" - project of Anna Nemtsova for hromadske.tv
    • 1:24: "The first what I heard was military airplanes."
  • Overview of eyewitness reporting seeing military aircraft - What happened to flight MH17?, October 20, 2015
    This post will provide an overview of eyewitness who reported seeing one or two military aircraft shortly before MH17 crashed. At least 16 people told on camera they saw one or…

BBC video

  • BBC Russian video since pulled? Did they really even produce this? The locals all say there was a fughter jet that turned and left a different way. I put it here until I transcribe the subtitles. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:53, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
Eyewitness #1: There were two explosions in the air. And this is how it broke apart. And [the fragments] blew apart like this, to the sides. And when …
Eyewitness #2: … And there was another aircraft, a military one, beside it. Everybody saw it.
Eyewitness #1: Yes, yes. It was flying under it, because it could be seen. It was proceeding underneath, below the civilian one.
Eyewitness #3: There were sounds of an explosion. But they were in the sky. They came from the sky. Then this plane made a sharp turn-around like this. It changed its trajectory and headed in that direction [indicating the direction with her hands].

(that was easy - Gleb already did it) At that page is the video of the lady fighter in Slovyansk (so sad) a month before - June 18 - relating how the air force there recently had a jet hiding behind a civilian plane as it bombed the city. She thought it was to provoke a shootdown of the airliner and get the separatists branded as terrorists. This both offers a precedent for a real July 17 possibility, and a precedent for some folks to think that's what they saw or should say they saw. It will come down to what lines up. Most of this is vague, but witness 3 seems fairly astute and describes a turn I believe Russian radar also described. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:25, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Just an update. I thought she looked familiar. Do you know who the "lady fighter" is? the video was i June,in late July she married famous Donetsk Airport defender commander Motorola (he hardly reaches up to her shoulder) and rumour from months ago is that she's expecting. Hope they all make it through this. KatKan (talk) 17:22, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
No link is ok, too busy to click anyway, but I appreciate the update. Was worried about her fate after her town got smashed. Alive and then some, good. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:39, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Reuters: “From my balcony I saw a plane begin to descend from a great height and then heard two explosion," said one separatist from nearby Krasnyi Luch who gave his name only as Sergei. He denied the rebels had shot the plane down. "This could happen only if it was a fighter jet or a surface-to-air missile (that shot it down)," he said, noting that the rebels did not have weapons capable of shooting down a plane at such a height."
Note, on seeing the video, this seems to be post-shoot-down. He probably saw it nose-diving as it "descended." Something booms as it falls (was it twice? or an echo?) - I suspect it's one of the wing fuel tanks., since one of the wings is fully on fire. This accounts adds nothing but a description of what we can see for ourselves already, and his assessment is opinion - a bomb on board could have done it for all he knows. --Caustic Logic (talk)
A local farmer said: ‘I was herding my cows and heard a buzzing noise. ‘I lay on the ground and thinking only that it would not hit me and my cows. Then I looked and saw that something turns sharply and two big wings were flying. Bang. And something explodes. It came from eastern side, from the side of Sokholikha mountain.’
  • Paris Match reportage recorded two days after crash Paris Match reporter Alfred de Montesquiou traveled to Rasipnoye and interviewed two eyewitnesses. At 1:31 the second eyewitness seems to say: Самолёт, который заходил, он, видать, рядом с ним шёл, и потом зашёл вот так вот ему - спереди. Can some one translate this? For various reasons this video seems to be an important piece of evidence. It not only confirms the claims made by other witnesses, seeing another plane flying beside MH17, but also the attempt by the Western press to censor this interesting fact (see BBC example above). --Pasparal (talk) 19:19, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
"That (other) plane, which was (making an approach/manoeuver) (=заходил), as it appeared, ( видать ) it was flying nearby, and than (hand gesture, an arc) approached it like that, from the front." He continues that it was cloudy and he saw only part of the maneuver, than it was hidden by the clouds. Interesting. But MH17 was at 10 km height, clouds starting at maybe 5 km, so it is not entirely clear how much of this is an observation and how much is a reconstruction. It is also not clear how high was that other plane (it's smaller plane, if he could see it well, maybe it was because it was lower). Maybe this guy can give more details sometime. Interesting, thanks! --Resup (talk) 20:14, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
It seems all the eyewitnesses saw the Boeing flying in or just below the clouds during the (final) attack while clearly recognizing one or more (far smaller) fighter jets flying beside the airliner. So the assumption this was at cruising height (33K feet) must be wrong. But this raises the question why MH17 would have descended (just after making mysterious left and right turns and suddenly slowing down to 200 km/h, according to Russian MoD) without any distress call being made by the Malaysian pilots. Russian Air Force colonel Aleksand Zhilin speculated while flying at cruising altitude MH17 was first struck in the right-hand engine by an R-60 air-to-air missile, making it lose altitude and forcing the pilots to dramatically change course (Anna-News interview with retired Russian Air Force colonel). But the absence of radio communication by the pilots made me question this scenario. This led me to the (admittedly outlandish) conclusion MH17 was somehow cyber-hijacked during its final moments. --Pasparal (talk) 10:57, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
We know with quite high confidence that the plane was at 10000 m, because preliminary Dutch report, Appendix A, page 33 has plane altitude data showing it at 33000 feet all the way until it vanished. It is not clear whether witness have seen military plane and Boeing close together. As I understand, they saw military planes (and this is important to establish, e.g because a military plane is a legitimate target). Shortly after that, within few seconds, they heard 1-2 explosions, and shortly after that they saw a crash. I am not sure any of the witnesses actually saw Boeing before the crash (I do not remember a clear statement to that effect). --Resup (talk) 13:21, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
That claim is based on the FDR data which was read-out by the British (certainly not an unaligned and neutral party). Question: have you ever heard of an FDR dying before the passengers? (Dutch Foreign Minister Timmermans says passenger wore oxygen mask) --Pasparal (talk) 16:11, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
I read some comments, Russian pilot or somebody experienced, saying that one oxygen mask cannot possibly deploy, this is done from the cockpit (and apparently there is no record that oxygen masks were deployed). Somebody thought that it may be portable oxygen mask, some people with shortage of breath (or asthma) may need an oxygen mask handy. So it could be just that. But I don't know more than what was reported. I did not save link to comments suggesting it was medical-reason oxygen mask.--Resup (talk) 16:52, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
  • ^ This reminds me of an episode of the RT selfie "News Team" I had intended to plug, Episode 32 where their reporter Roman Kosarev arrives very early at the scene. Episode 30 has some human interest stuff about how he went there against the fears of his wife. Both more for the record than for big revelations. --CE (talk) 19:30, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

All versions of the BBC video have been deleted from YouTube because of BBC copyright claims, but there is a version on Vimeo linked to from this article. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:32, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Виктор Галенко, Victor Galenko, VP of the Russian Aeronautic Society, for russvesna:"An air traffic controller opinion". He tells us that there were several witnesses in NOvorossia military who seen the plane with their own eyes, and tell that it was SU 27. That was endorsed by Khmuryi (Pertovskii). Victor Galenko than gives an argument why 1TV photo was a fake, his argument is essentially similar to ours. He than discusses Rostov radar info. He does not tell anything we did not figure, I guess, but he gives his opinion that this shows a military plane from the left side of MH17 (as he expects to be the case, I guess) . He tells us that labels normally show altitude and speed---(but that signal at issue is passive and as I recall that information was not show). Thanks, Victor Galenko ! Did not know that witnesses told about SU 27. --Resup (talk) 20:00, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Reuters claims witnesses located at Chernyi Zhovten claimed that they saw missile overhead, as they say before the crash. There are some problems with the account: Buk in single stage, so nothing to separate; witness give conflicting account, blaming Ukraine, changing story to Novorossia; claim is made long time after the event and could be not genuine; no video provided to get some idea about trustworthiness. Also, this location will give right-side-and front hit, with anything else much less likely. According to report, they were not able to find launching side. "Corroborated by rebels"-but no evidence for this provided, and may be fake. Even according to the authors, this does not prove anything. (I'd say, with such late report and problems noted, I am not convinced that the account is genuine, or that it is about MH17 event.-- And why not to publish video at least, if reporters believe the story themselves?) --Resup (talk) 20:50, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

reporter produced inaccurate report in the past, refuted later by Khodakovski --Resup (talk) 21:24, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

"Ramzes"

Former Russian GRU officer 'Ramzes' (years of service 1994-1999), as reported in Saker interview, 29.5.15. "I have a special attitude regarding this. I was in the sky on July 17th at the exact time MH17 was shot down. I saw a military military plane in the sky. There is only one military plane that can be in the sky at this time. Only a Ukrainian military jet could be in the airspace at that time. I was not the only person who saw this military plane. Many of us saw it. I saw it with my own eyes.

The state that media then reported that Ukrainians denied having a plane in the air at that time. So ask yourself why are they lying?

I checked an American run flight path tracking website and I saw my commercial flight, I saw MH17, I saw that at that exact time (20 minutes after MH17) my commercial plane’s flight path was logged on this website. The next day discussing this with fellow officers and friends we looked at the website again and in less than 24 hours my commercial flight was not on this web site . Why would they delete the flight record of a commercial flight? This is a daily scheduled flight from Greece to Russia. This flight appears on the July 16 and on July 18, and it was there on July 17 as per its regular schedule yet it was removed from the record on July 17th.

If a BUK was also involved it makes sense, as military redundancy is always a practice employed when striking a target. It makes sense to have it hit by military jets, then by a BUK then by a bomb inside the aircraft and so on… This all points to a high level of preparation for this attack. However I do not think this was executed by high level professional operatives, it was most likely done by someone who could order ground units and planes to attack (read Oligarch) but not someone slick enough to have a bomb on board or make this look like an accident (read CIA or Special Ops). It could be CIA if they wanted to make it look like an Oligarch to trigger anger and a response. Again anything is possible but we know 100% it was not local fighters from the DNR or LNR. Especially not with Russia in any way supporting such craziness.

The event was made to be the most important news, which implies it was a diversionary tactic for public consumption while on the ground troops were amassing and preparing for and initiating battles. Again, it was a cover for engagement. Clearly the LNR and DNR are suing for peace as is Moscow.

So this tragedy was a clear and important pivot to make the world to pay attention and while the world paid attention to MH17 other orders were being executed on the ground to create the pretext for a full war". :--Resup (talk) 15:07, 29 May 2015 (UTC)


Lev Aleksandrovich

Dutch blogger went to Donbass and did interview with one of the earliest witnesses (who complains everyone ignores him). A retired miner, he was wat5ching with monoculars (just for something to do apparently, and who are we to say otherwise?) and heard and saw the whole thing. 3 planes, one peeled off, flew up, bang-bang bang, Boeing fell. Very detailed. I'm convinced by his description of the turbine roaring (the engine that ingested broken fan blades). http://7mei.nl/2015/05/30/lev/ KatKan (talk) 02:18, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I have listened to his interview, and it appears genuine. What worries me a bit are rumored vanished interview of his in the past. I do not know what was there, but if he already told the story with 2 parachutes but did not tell about the attack, it will compromise him. On the other hand, if he was saying the same thing over and over, this appears quite strong. Probably he is talking to Russian investigators? --but I have not seen anything definite on that. Apart from Dutch leader making sudden trip to Moscow with some MH 17 talk...--Resup (talk) 02:31, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
Lev is the second guy interviewed in this video which is trilingual with English interpreter. He says a lot less and they didn't publish all of it. KatKan (talk) 02:35, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
He is not talking much in this video episode, letting the other guy do the talking. He uses third person grammar to talk about smoke which 'they' saw in Grabovo. Somebody would need to sort out missile, R 60 is listed as having rod type warhead; maybe it can have other warheads (and here fragmentation warhead is listed but who knows where all this is coming from) which are not publicized. Also there were three bangs--he is very confident in that part of the story (and it excludes the Western version already); two bangs may be missiles under wings, leaving room for something else. (Or they managed to load 3 missiles under the plane, -two missiles often carried on one support; or two bangs are launch and one more is explosion). --Resup (talk) 05:50, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

More Fighter Jets Witnesses

Graham Phillips interviewed Leonid and Victor from Grabovo -they live near coalmine "Progress" . Younger witness (Victor) was riding on his bicycle from his mother. He heard the sound, looked up, and saw fighter jets. Then it was a big explosion. People ducked down. Than they heard sound of something falling down. Falling, falling, falling. Than, about 7 km from them, a black plume of smoke appeared. And silence. People were raising up . All rushed in the direction of the crash. Elder (Leonid) interrupts: "we thought they were going to bomb us , you see. There is a (kabril' ? unclear-cable rail way?) over there at Progress, and it flew right out of there, whzhhh (imitates sound). People started to run, ducked, they thought..." He is interrupted by Graham, "so apart from Boeing there were other planes"? Leonid ( with Victor speaking simultaneously to confirm this as well): yes there were, this is what I am telling you, and they shot it down, 100 % , why they are talking about this, what's the name, - Buk, --they (those jets) shot down the plane (they both talk interrupting each other, making it a bit difficult to translate word by word, but they confirm they saw the jets and believe those jets shot the plane down)... (Vicotr) and locals, they live nearby, saw all this ...(Leonid) --from "Progress," you know, there is a coalmine over there, and that plane flew out, right over the roof, whzhhh ...and rushed forward, it was SU plane . (Graham) are you sure it was not Buk? (Leonid): yes, for sure, I am telling you (Victor) Even two jets in fact, one came from the direction of Saur Mogila, and flew somewhere. And the other, it went up ... Saur Mogila there, you know it, right? (Leonid) they say, Buk, Buk, (no) , it was that jet, it caught up (that Boeing) ... you see... and everybody over here knows this, that a jet caught up with it ....some say, could be over there-somewhere, downed by a missile, --no, it was a jet, it caught up with it, and hit it

No investigators talked to them about this, and this is the first time, they say, they describe what they saw. Leonid is a miner, a pensioner; he is unhappy that pensions are not paid, and that Ukraine talks them down as drug addicts or terrorists. In his opinion, Ukrainian jets shot down Boeing because they were trying to shoot down Putin plane (unlikely as we discussed elsewhere, --but this is what he believes).

(Graham): did you see the Boeing? (Leonid) I saw it falling, going down. I was at home, and had a binocular At first I did not understand what happened, ...It was on fire, and we thought, what's going on, are those parachutists, here and there, black, white... I saw well in my binocular how people were falling out (Graham) there were two jets? (Leonid) yes (Victor) one was flying, and the other went up, catching up... one came from Saur Mogila, and than the other one came... I thought is was a fight between those two jets; but it turned out to be different...And than I saw Boeing, falling down, and breaking into pieces. Leonid than offers his opinion that it could be a mix-up with Putin plane (unlikely-as we discussed elsewhere).

Interviewer, Graham Phillips, notes in another piece that investigators were only interested in witnesses to confirm Buk theory, and did not interview other witnesses, like in this example. Graham plans to continue his investigation. --Resup (talk) 19:40, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Opolchenie member, nickname Uho (Ear) -newsfront video, 28.8.15 Around 0:52 a brief comment that he saw MH17 crash and that a SU plane " was finishing it up; and it itself was shot over Torez" --Resup (talk) 21:08, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Opolchenie at the scene

Partial video and transcript, news.com.au. (Significance for investigation is unclear, and may --and was-- interpreted both ways. Cassad highlights bits supporting other plane theory).

Testimony under caution

  • Page 0. Translation of last paragraph: "...After the plane fell, I heard jet engine sound, (with source) moving away from me in the direction of Debaltsevo ... I conclude that there was another plane, although I have not seen the plane itself. During those events, I have not observed any contrail from the ground"

Copy of Russian text from Rusvesna «17 июня 2014 года в период примерно 16 часов, когда я находился в доме по месту своего жительства, то услышал доносящийся с улицы гул работы реактивных двигателей самолета, который нарастал. Тут же я услышал два громких хлопка, похожих на взрывы.

Сразу после этого я вышел во двор и увидел падающий самолет, который вращался вокруг своей оси и разваливался в небе. При этом, как мне показалось, у самолета отсутствовало хвостовое оперение, хотя и не уверен. Также мне показалось, что у него отсутствовала носовая часть — кабина пилота, а сам самолет был охвачен огнем и оставлял за собой черный дымный след.

Самолет падал со стороны поселка Орловка в сторону поселка Грабово. После падения самолета на землю я обратил внимание, что в небе стоит гул реактивных двигателей самолета, который удалялся в сторону города Дебальцево» (they did not copy last two sentences)

page 0 (first un-numbered page, file name 'protocol doprosa') Rusvesna
  • Page 4 of interrogation documents, Russian file name 'protocol doprosa 4', among other documents published by Rusvesna . Interrogation was following laws of Ukraine, and caution for false testimony was issued under Russian law. Poor quality-but Rusvesna have typed text which matches what can be seen on the image.

"... In that moment, I heard two claps, similar to explosions in the sky. That was followed by another loud explosion. Looking up, I saw a falling plane of large size, which lacked the wing; thereafter it crashed in the direction of the village of Grabovo, where dense black smoke appeared.

From the time of explosions in the sky till the plane fell, about 15-20 seconds passed. I want to clarify that after the explosion in the sky and after the plane began to fall, there was a strong hum. There I noticed that behind the falling plane there is (another) plane, of grey color, resembling a military fighter jet. Soon after the plane disappeared into the clouds and the roar cleared"


Russian: «…В этот момент я услышал два хлопка, похожих на взрывы, в небе. После последовал еще один громкий взрыв. Посмотрев вверх, я увидел падающий самолет большого размера, у которого отсутствовало крыло, после чего самолет упал в стороне села Грабово, откуда начал идти густой черный дым.

От взрывов в небе до падения самолета прошло около 15–20 секунд. Хочу уточнить, что после взрыва в небе и после того, как самолет начал падение, стоял сильный гул. Там же я заметил, что за падающим самолетом летит на большой высоте самолет серого цвета, похожий на военный истребитель. Вскоре данный самолет скрылся в облаках и гул рассеялся».

other pages-higher quality at Rusvesna

(Free fall from 10 000 m height is 45 seconds, more because of air drag, but not very accurate timing by a witness is understandable, especially under circumstances. Correctly describe strong hum-as engine was hit).

Other witness testimony presented at Rusvesna describe sound of another plane, several explosions --Resup (talk) 17:34, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Anna Petrenko

Via Facebook by Nina B. Brugman:
In Russian, no subtitling yet, sorry. About the flight dispatcher Anna Petrenko who routed the mh17 flight in the sky of Ukraine. She "left the day after the mh17 crush for an urgent hoiday" and never came back. Anna was very active on social networks such as VK and Facebook. After the tragedy her internet pages were thoroughly removed. No sign of her anymore, no sign at all. Why the investigators didn't try to find and interrogate her?
Tv journalist Andrey Karaulov tells how he and his team searched Petrenko and have found her trace.
TV program repeats that she left for a vacation the next day and disappeared since from social networks. They found her home address and phone number based on residence records, to no avail (no answer on the phone). They also report receiving an anonymous phone call from Dnepropetrovsk, telling that Anna Petrenko is under a 'witness protection program' and they will not be able to find her (except that she is not known to testify as a witness...)

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 17:26, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Yurii Baturin

Ukrainian major Yuri Baturin crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border and asked for protection in Russia in connection with his information about the involvement of Kiev in Mh17 shoot-down. He claims that it was shot down by Buk belonging to Ukrainian 156th Air Defense Missile Regiment, with permanent/listed/default location in the city of Zolotonosha. He claims that military vehicles convoy including Buk stopped at his detachment location near Kharkov soon after the shoot-down, and several people confirmed to him (that they moved the equipment to a location where missile was launched). More details offered in Rusvesna (that he could see the launch from his control post near Kharkov; and that the launch was from near Zaroshenskoe, as Almaz-Antey told us), which is presumably based on tvzvezda version of the testimony; however tvzvezda link appears to be broken --Resup (talk) 18:15, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

TVzvezda video in webcashe. He does not say what was the launch location, but he says that Ukrainian Buk was moved to a point from which it was fired (at around crash time), and that the convoy stopped at his location on its way back. He says he did not see any second plane. Almaz-Antey version of location introduced by interviewer; he agrees/does not disagree but has little extra on specific launch location count. TASS version of his account is the closest one. --Resup (talk) 18:56, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

His video testimony is the same or very close to this written Russian account:

  • Not on video:
    Я был в должности начальника командного пункта воинской части 1215. Воинская часть отвечала за воздушные границы в пределах Харькова. Та информация, которая отмечалась на рабочих местах расчета, в том числе содержала информацию о всей воздушной обстановке над всей восточной Украиной. Непосредственно как начальник командного пункта я видел эту картину и владел всей воздушной обстановкой в пределах востока Украины», - рассказал Батурин.
  • video starts:
    «В момент прохождения по своему маршруту Boeing (MH17 – прим. ред.) вторым воздушным судном не сопровождался. Информации на индикаторах о втором воздушном судне не было», - вспоминает офицер. «Я непосредственно свидетель и участник того, что сборная колонна из состава МАЗов и платформ 156-го ракетного полка, город Золотоноша после перебазирования «Бука» в ту точку стояния, из которой, по прогнозам, был сделан выстрел, на обратном пути останавливалась на территории моего командного пункта, это порядка 6-7 машин.
  • Here, what he says directly and in response to question is combined together, but he essentially says this (up to condensing, literally)
    В моем личном разговоре с водителями, которые занимались перебазированием техники, они подтвердили, что занимались перебазированием в ту точку, откуда был произведен выстрел», - сказал Батурин.
--Resup (talk) 19:03, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

TV Zvezda has deleted the three articles it had on Baturin. Evidently his story has been questioned, as he moved to Moscow already in 2016. Here are the articles with archive links:

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 12:41, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

In the earliest version of the article in above list, it is said that (1) he observed the launch on his equipment and the equipment data showed that it was launched from Ukrainian territory (2) in the conversation with the crew, they confirmed launch location as the same as Almaz-Antey, and (3) it is not said that he did not see the plane. But on the video they provide, he (1) does not say, at least clearly, that he had any useful observations on his equipment; in fact, at 1:09 + on the video he is asked 'the shot, you have 'fixed' (recorded) it in some way?' A: 'No'. (2) he kept repeating, 'to/from the point from which the launch was made', not specifying the point. (Also, this is non-colloquial, formal or mil sort of language, this does not seem to convey the actual conversation he had, unless he was reported it in a military/formal way himself). (3) He clearly stated that information on a second plane was absent on his equipment 'indicators' (В момент прохождения по своему маршруту Boeing вторым воздушным судном не сопровождался. Информации на индикаторах о втором воздушном судне не было) . --This, for example, does not provide a confirmation of the early MoD press conference, and so may be viewed as not very helpful to tvzvezda (which covers military affairs, from the official standpoint)

But there are also unanswered questions about witness (why he is saying this only now), + questions about details: exact timing, words actually said, how he learned any other details if applicable, etc. They showed a brief clip only; they also flashed some written notes of his, a page to do with basic bio information. It is unclear whether there is more, of substance. --Resup (talk) 17:20, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

7 Dec. 2017. Another interview with Yuri Baturin appeared on TV Zvezda. Essentially repeats his story. He observed secondary radar data (ie transponders), seen MH17 on his screen, that the flight deviated (he says), and that it disappeared from the screen. Several days later, a convoy transporting Buk, 156th anti-aircraft missile regiment, Ukraine stopped at his control and command facility, as it was a convenient transit point. He connected those two events and believes that this Buk shot MH17 down. It is unclear how he concluded that the launch was from Zaroshenskoe. He has not seen the launch on screens; and what was said to him is not very clear. (He says those people were not very bright or qualified). But presenter questions and his answers somehow places the launch to Zaroshenkoe. It can be (as he says, based on range), but I am not fully convinced he provides an extra evidence. The strongest claim is that he saw the convoy transporting Buk, few days after MH17 shoot-down, had conversations with contractors transporting it, and on that basis concluded that the two events are connected. He now lives in Russia, quit the Ukrainian armed forces, on moral grounds as he says. --Resup (talk) 14:09, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

'Vladislav'

'Vladislav' (not the real name) from Stefan Beck article, 10 Aug. 2018. That would be a major story if details of Ukrainian arrest are confirmed, some of them at least (JIT interview confirmation, an extra bonus). It may not be in public domain, and Ukraine may refuse or alter those details, but there are no details in the article on trying. It appears to be that the author has some operation capability in the East, or is friendly (which is quite natural for a normal unbiased person), but may have insufficient reach, or inclination, to deal with Ukrainian authorities trying at least to get to those details (I would not stand doing it too, but I am not a journalist, and don't have to).

It is important in particular to confirm that the 'rebels' had good reasons to believe there were unfriendly planes in the skies at that time.

There was a detail in SBU tape (likely forged, glued from pieces) where Bezler is warned by 'Naimets' (kind of mercenary, a rather unlikely name for a call sign) that a (single) 'bird' is heading his way (text eg here). This is sort of in the same ballpark story but Vladislav is specific that he saw Ukrainian military planes, carrying munitions on the outside, not just a 'bird' which rebels believe is military but in fact may be a civilian airliner. (He also says, in a muddled a bit way, that there were two planes, SU 25s).

Noted, it is reported that Bezler gave an interview to JIT denying any role in shooting the Boeing, denying that Buk passed his positions in Gorlovka. --Resup (talk) 08:14, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Crash_of_Malaysia_Airlines_flight_MH17/Witnesses&oldid=47670"