Talk:Alleged Chemical Attack, August 21, 2013/Sources/Video

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Screenshot from Kafr Batna Coordinating Committee video showing victims of chemical weapons attack

My YouTube playlist:

Brown Moses has a list with 120 videos.

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 18:43, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

The earliest original videos seem to be coming from the Kvrbtna Coordinating Committee (تنسيقية كفربطنا):

I have no idea where "Kvrbtna" is, but searching for the word in Arabic only brings up massacre pictures and videos. (The logo on the videos says it is Kafar Batna City.) -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:41, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Kafar Batna is here on the southern outskirts of Irbin (there's a "Al Fateh Hospital" central in the markation). The two places given by the reddit collection are at least two kilometers north-west of that in Jobar. The mentioned Ain Terma and Zamalka are in between.--CE (talk) 20:25, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
Excellent start here, Petri, thanks. No time left today. 120 videos? Will not be watching most of those. More soon. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:49, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
The government has officially denied using any such weapons, but the United Nations inspection team that arrived in the country on Sunday (to investigate previous claims of chemical weapon attacks) has been denied access to the site. As a result, the images below are the only evidence we have of the devastation — and there is a lot of evidence.

The Feinstein Package

Apparently a set of 13 videos hosted on senate.gov and collected by Diane Feinstein to convince Representatives to sign up for war. --CE (talk) 03:26, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Did anyone compile a YouTube playlist of these? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 05:40, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, I never did get how to view this package list when it was mentioned in Dennis O'Brien's report. Now I don't feel up to sitting through it. It deserves a video-by-video debunk somewhere, with Youtube links just part of that. Someone should do that. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:46, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
I already decompiled the link list here: Alleged Chemical Attack, August 21, 2013/Sources/Video#Feinstein Package. The first thing to do would be to find the original postings. Posting links to reposted SHAMSNN videos is testament to the level of research the US team has done – nil! -- Petri Krohn (talk) 17:51, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
Yes, it's much easier to work with the individual vids. In this table the Feinstein Package is Vid #000, and the individual component videos are #001-0013. Table of individual video links.--Pierpont (talk) 21:09, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

In situ videos

After abandoning my earlier working hypothesis of an chemical weapons rocket attack I have started collecting in situ evidence here. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:35, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Outside scenes

See also Talk:Alleged Chemical Attack, August 21, 2013/Locations
Dead baby girl in Jisreen

There are a few videos of wounded being treated outside in the dark. Some are from the Kafr Batna hospital.

Here are 4 from "jsreenalhura" – تنسيقية بلدة جسرين الغوطة الشرقية ("Coordinating Committee of the town of Two Bridges in East Gouta") associated with Jisreen Revolution on Facebook.

This is an odd scene. The guy in the blue stripes is the star and very upset, but he is not likely the kid's dad. This guy is standing with the crowd when the car pulls up. The driver seems to disappear. The balding passenger gets back in the car. The girl appears cyanotic, but lividity has not set in. Hard to tell whether rigor has. Most of the child victims I'm seeing have good color. Victims lying in the street are alive and have very good color. Judging from the absence of sharp shadows, looks like fairly early morning?--Pierpont (talk) 21:25, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
Hm. Definitely a blue face, and that look of trying hard to breathe at the end. Morning, perhaps mid, but sun low enough it's not shining down into this alley (hence no shadows inside a shadow ;) ). No expert, but I might see lividity, or some separating of light and pink areas in her arms, as if she's been upright like this for a bit. Laying still seems to be the best way for that to set in and she's not still, so signs would be muddled, right? That would mean dead at least 6 hours. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:12, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Eyewitnesses

While waiting for the exit of the Committee of the medical point in East Gouta, we interviewed this witness and he told us what he saw during the CW strike, and that he heard strange noises when the rockets.
A man in his late 20s is seen in this video with the after effects of a chemical weapons attack in the Madamiyah area of Damascus, this comes after an attack that took place on the 21st of August 2013 on civilian populated areas of a number of suburbs of Damascus.
  • Family killed, but unfortunately this eyewitness cannot say a word. I suspect this guy has always been dumb. Looks like he has just been recovered from a mental institution. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:15, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
    Hmm... Maybe he is suffering from Kuru! -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:17, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Father Reunited with Son

Sources

(not all to read, just in case anyone was about to - Petri posts these just for effect - a lot of damn people pimped this story) --Caustic Logic (talk) 15:41, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Exposed here?

I should have looked at this sooner. I figured it was fake, but there are possibilities for real reunions related to the fake chemical attack or not. Looking now, that guy is messed up or acts that way. The recognition part has me wondering, but they don't have remotely similar complexions. So I still suspect it's fake, but I don't accept this argument that it's proven. I don't think that "father" is Sheikh Kamal. They look a little similar, but the nose is different enough and facial hair pattern is no match. And as noted the weight difference, besides the strung out guy's finer features. Also, the praying guys matched to others are all weak matches or not matches. The woman bringing the baby is interesting clue, but this line of analysis can hardly ever be strong enough to go on like that. --Caustic Logic (talk) 15:41, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
I agree, the Kamal match is far from sure and some others are rather non-matches. One guy one the right in the praying video has a full full beard with large nose while next to no beard at all and a rather piggy nose in the "reunion" video. Not explained by "hair grown". --CE (talk) 15:48, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
I have not yet looked into the "Sheikh Kamal" sources. Hadi Hdhod is howevert an important source of CW attack videos. If were to be proven a hoaxer, it would blow a big hole in the rebel narrative. I looked at his other videos to see if I could identify any of the characters. The gray-hared man in a white striped shirt also appears in the other video from August 25th. He seems to be some kind of "fixer" on both videos. I think we need some geolocating. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:09, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
In this video of delivery of "food baskets" from August 12th the shop in Saqba is located here on Google Maps. Note the intersection with the four palm trees. This location explains why Hadi Hdhod would be at the Saqba school on August 21st recording the Islamist preacher. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:46, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
In the "bread basket" video the camera is at the central mosque in Zamalka at 2:52 (600 meters north of UMLACA 197). There is a water tower in the background in the "Reunited" video at 2:05 -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:12, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

UN investigators

Brown Moses Playlists

Brown Moses has published a list of all YouTube channels publishing video from the August 21 attack. It seems to contain about the same channels as this page, but this needs to be checked.

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:12, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Noirette via Moon of Alabama

I ask publicly for proof the evidence is more than staged. See Talk:Alleged Chemical Attack, August 21, 2013#Murder investigation, part 2. I got one response from Noirette via Moom of Alabama. I have collected her remarks here: Talk:Alleged Chemical Attack, August 21, 2013/Noirette -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:58, 31 August 2013 (UTC) – updated 02:41, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Lopforum List

Recently updated list of videos

List of Videos --Charles Wood (talk) 23:49, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

From there: "The following 45 videos & 2 images document 776 victims of the August 21, East Ghouta & Moadamiya chemical weapons attack." Awesome! To have done this work and made it available to the public is the main thing, very cool. To have it done and brought right here by a member, cooler yet. --Caustic Logic (talk) 00:35, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
And a question: That's a higher number than I thought, but believable. The initial 5-600 estimates aren't as solid as I thought. The VDC's 600-ish has grown to over 900 names, for example (929 - I need to note this in the right spot...). I'm curious how thorough you think you were to excluding duplicates? Usually whole batches will be unique, but... --Caustic Logic (talk) 00:35, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
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