Talk:Ukrainian Orthodox Church
...and Vilna Gaon
... Rav Shternbuch received a closely guarded secret that came to him from Rabbi Yitzchak Chever zatza"l, who received it from Rabbi Chaim of Volozhyn zatza"l, who received it from the Gaon of Vilna himself, who revealed it shortly before his death: “When you hear that the Russians have captured the city of Crimea, you should know that the times of the Messiah have started, that his steps are being heard. And when you hear that the Russians have reached the city of Constantinople (today’s Istanbul), you should put on your Shabbat clothes and don’t take them off, because it means that the Messiah is about to come any minute.” (unknowable -- not right now --Resup (talk) 23:11, 12 October 2018 (UTC) )
What's actually happening?
I think this is mostly about hierarchical structure, in practice rather elaborate & 'Byzantine' . Briefly, the patriarch of Constantinople is supposed to be more like first among equals than the Pope, perhaps with more aura than the rest, but decisions are taken collectively by all independent church leaders. But recently he made an autocratic intervention into personalities + Moscow vs Kiev church leadership disputes in Ukraine, deciding to grant autocephaly himself rather than by unanimous consent, following a different process (appointing his direct representatives, which also has historic precedents). All this in the already complicated background of Russia vs Ukraine vs the West. For Russian patriotic/nationalist wing, Russians and Ukrainians are the same people and this is trying to bring a wedge, in yet another way on top of the previous conflict. Russian church leadership is not taking this lightly and is on track to break off/excommunicate the Constantinople patriarch. It is feared that all this may lead to violence of physical control over monasteries (there is an impression that clashes are in the making). In addition to further cultural split between mentally close peoples. While recent (12 Oct'18) Strelkov + (a prominent Russ. Christ. Orth. figure) father Vsevolod Chaplin video appearance explored religious predictions and real/human side of a possible major conflict leading to restoration of unity of peoples and reestablishing of (religious or human) 'kingdom'/'tsardom' , of some undefined sort. Recent developments were characterized simply as 'heresy' by Chaplin, without going into complicated credo issues. (He sounded quite hierarchical, not that spiritual in general). --Resup (talk) 19:55, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- Apparently the guy in "Constantinople" just told the two Ukraine splitters that they have his blessings, without really consulting with the other national heads of the diverse orthodoxies (including the canonical one in Ukraine), and now everybody wants the guy in Moscow to react to this, while John McCain (may he rot in hell) and now Joe Biden are getting medals from the "Constantinople" guy. All very strange. And the blogger I posted the analysis of is thinking the US failed to meddle and it will backfire. Anyway, fascinating to watch and I pointed my reader to the newsfeed of this site today to maybe gather a bit more understanding about the ongoing events. I'm just glad I was born into Catholicism which is so simple and at the same time bizarre that a six-year old can figure out that something is wrong with it (which I did). ;o) --CE (talk) 20:38, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- So far, the 'canonical guy in Ukraine' has been the one in Moscow (canonical is Ukrainian church of Moscow patriarchate, a branch of Moscow patriarchate) The change is that 'canonical' (disputed) independent Ukrainian church is being established, first by appointing Bartholomew' direct representatives, and him declaring his right and his intent to establish the autocephalous Ukrainian church --Resup (talk) 21:11, 14 October 2018 (UTC)