Talk:Ukraine prisoners of war
Kiev claims to have captured some Russian "paratroopers" inside Ukraine. Russia allegedly confirms they're Russian but says were there by accident. In a customary propaganda move,they've been forced to make pro-Kiev statements. How do I know the statements are not their own? " "They told us that the Bandera crowd is bad and the uprising is good. But when we were taken hostage, our eyes were opened ...." NO WAY RUSSIA would refer to Kiev as "Bandera" -- that is a Donbass expression which would be meaningless in Russia. Plus he looks like he's reading it.--KatKan (talk) 18:59, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
- Very interesting, that. I'll have to look again closer - were grenades mentioned in connection with their arrests? --Caustic Logic (talk) 05:50, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
- "Despite showing their diplomatic passports, they were detained when they were leaving a cafe, under an absurd pretext: ostensibly, they were carrying grenades with them. " from original story. According to TASS they were employed as guards. No more detail anywhere. Absolutely not a thing in Western media. KatKan (talk) 06:47, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
- Very interesting, that. I'll have to look again closer - were grenades mentioned in connection with their arrests? --Caustic Logic (talk) 05:50, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
UAF POWS in Novorossia
1. Полковник, командир бригады Помогайло Владимир Анатольевич
2. Полковник, зам. ком. бригады Самойлов Сергей Анатольевич
3. Подполковник, зам. по летной работе Волков Виталий Петрович
4. Подполковник, старший штурман Дякив Александр Юрьевич
5. Майор, нач. службы безопасности полетов Стромыло Игорь Геннадьевич
6. Майор, нач. боевой подготовки Николаенко Артем Викторович
7. Майор, зам. комэска Овчинников Вячеслав Юрьевич
8. Капитан, командир звена Жуков Максим Николаевич
9. Капитан, командир звена Ручка Илья Николаевич
10.Подполковник, комэск Дзюбенко Вадим Валерьевич
11. Майор, зам. комэска Лагачев Владимир Владимирович
12. Капитан, командир звена Волошин Владислав Валерьевич
13. Полковник, нач. штаба бригады Матыцин Борис Николаевич
14 - подполковник Шевцов Юрий Сергеевич , пилот сбитого 21 июля в районе населенного пункта Мариновка самолета СУ-25, доставлен в штаб армии Юго-Востока, 12.02.1982 года рождения, уроженец г. Горловка, Донецкой области, проживает в общежитии военного городка по адресу г. Николаев, ул. Аэродромная, командир эскадрильи 299 бригады тактической авиации Украины, наносившей авиаудары по Донбассу, с местом дислокации в городе Николаев.
1 Colonel, brigade commander Pomogailo Vladimir A.
2 Colonel, Deputy. com. Sergey Samoilov Brigade
3 Lieutenant Colonel, Deputy. flight operation Volkov Vitaly
4 Colonel, senior navigator Dyakiv Alexander Y.
5 Major, beg. Service safety Strom Igor G.
6 Mayor, beg. combat training Nikolaenko Artem Viktorovich
7 Mayor, Deputy. squadron leader Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov
8 Captain, wing commander , Maxim Zhukov
9 Captain, commander of the handle Ilya Nikolayevich
10.Podpolkovnik, squadron commander Dziubenko Vadim
11 Mayor, Deputy. Lagachev squadron leader Vladimir Vladimirovich
12 Captain, wing commander, Voloshin Vladislav
13 Col. , beg. brigade headquarters Matytsin Boris
14 - Lieutenant Colonel Yuri Shevtsov, the pilot shot down on July 21 in the area of settlement Marinovka aircraft SU-25, delivered to the headquarters of the Army of the South-East, born 12.02.1982, in Gorlovka, Donetsk region, living in a dorm at the military camp Nikolaev, st. Airfield, Squadron 299 brigade tactical aviation of Ukraine, stationed in Nikolaev.
Photo, video of (14) are shown in the source. (1-13) in the list are characterized as his pals; there exact circumstances are not fully clear but they appear to be POWs. Article says that their personal information is removed from social network accounts.
Russia hands over 63 Ukrainian servicemen to Ukraine, deputy commander says--Resup (talk) 02:26, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
This 31.08.2014 - 2:35 dated article show UAF POWs (Azov, Dnepr, Donbass battalion foot soldiers,+some officers). This happens under Ilovaisk, in Novorossia. "Despite reports in Ukrainian media that POWs were shot, Novorossiia AF show video with them held prisoners, although not in greatest shape,but alive". "We will not free them any more, they will help us to reconstruct Donbas." . I see, I guess, 18+ people on video, and about 40 people in panoramic video take starting at 2:16 and ending 2:23 on the video. I did not attempt more careful people count.
2:47 Officers, stand up, go to those other officers
3:03 You are an officer of which battalion? Answer unclear (negative answer to Dnepr or Donbass; OK we say just an officer; you go there now)
3:24 because you were killing civilians in our cities, it will be fare that you help reconstruct Donbas. Do you think it is fair? Yeah from prisoners goes. Thank you for your understanding.
21.01.2015. Some of the UAF POWs captured at the Airport today are shown on the video, names provided. They just give names, date/place of birth on this video. 3 more were interviewed on camera yesterday. --Resup (talk) 00:47, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
Donbas/Novorossia POWS in Ukraine
Кононов: «Ко мне обратились матери детей, которые находятся либо в СБУ, либо еще где-то, и уже больше девяти дней украинская сторона не может выдать пятерых человек, которые были запрошены еще более десяти дней назад по запросу родителей. Вот как ведет себя украинская сторона. Поэтому все обмены военнопленными на данный момент я прекратил»
Novorossia, Kononov: "I was approached by mothers of soldiers who are either in the SBU, or somewhere else, and for more than nine days of the Ukrainian side cannot handle back to us five people that were requested more than ten days ago at the request of parents. Here's how the Ukrainian side behaves. Therefore, I have temporary halted the exchanges of prisoners".
Kononov adds that Ukrainian army conscripts were freed.
Rebel Mozgovoi fighters ('Ghost brigade') show what they describe as a burial of Novorossia POWs, with signs of execution and torture. They were alerted by the locals; who in particular reported that 2 POWs were tortured all night. Rebels also suggest that grave may contain explosive 'traps' (unclear whether it was the case). --Resup (talk) 18:46, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
Released Novorossia POW was beaten, tortured by UAF National Guard (swastika and opolchenets burned on the body; says that water-boarding and rack used) Second POW who was with him is still at SBU (3:25).--Resup (talk) 13:45, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
They're doing them on a matched number basis. Apparently Ukies have taken very few prisoners, so are forced to get other offenders out of jail to exchange. NYTimes first ever story that is not against NR. KatKan (talk) 18:28, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- And they're not getting their own back in very good condition. This poor young guy is totally shattered. http://dnr-news.com/video/5504-lugansk-obmen-plennymi-na-blokpostu.html KatKan (talk) 11:20, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
- Indeed it appears that when Ukraine releases prisoners, they are typically/often in bad shape, or not actually real prisoners. While Novorossia typically treats prisoners well. There is evidence of goodwill on Novorossia side, they released some prisoners to parents well before ceasfire. Right after ceasefire, there was an impression that Novorossia supports all-for-all format, but than some hostilities returned which made this quite impossible. Maybe things will turn for better under stronger version of peace. The ball seems to be on Ukrainian side, they may consider releasing all prisoners in poor physical condition, as a goodwill gesture. --Resup (talk) 15:57, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
Ruban says that POW exchange effort run by SBU is deadlocked, offers to help. "Only Officers Corps can go to Donetsk, and have buses, and guards". Earlier reports were that there are 684 UAF POWs, and 584 for NAF --Resup (talk) 17:23, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
POW exchange happened. 222 Novorossian , and 150 Ukrainian POWs were brought to the exchange spot, on a neutral territory some 30 km from Donetsk. There were problems: prisoners delivered by Ukraine were different from the list agreed in Minsk. While some number of Ukrainian prisoners (either 3 or 5, report is unclear) refused to go back to Ukraine. Eventually, three Ukrainian prisoners decided not to go back, and were taken back to be resettled by Novorossia. Medvedchuk (who's daugher's godfather is Putin) was in charge on Ukrainain side, Kononov in charge for opolchenie --Resup (talk) 19:15, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Well, whatever is politically correct way to have this story in nadiya-savchenko I see no reason why not to have her released in some appropriately near future. No other cases I am clearly aware of, there was mentioning of ~ 300 UAF POWs whom Ruban was chasing but that was from a while ago . I have not seen estimates of NAF POWs. Ruban was saying things like every extra day in captivity is very bad (if you are surrounded, it might be not possible to be too accommodating for prisoners) --Chingachgook (talk) 09:43, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
Some hints that some prisoners were not treated well, no definite details
Interesting is that when they were asked how do they feel about the commander, one of them say no feelings, the other is say they are treated as cannon fodder, around 0.46 or so. Where that leads us, if anywhere, not sure . --Chingachgook (talk) 08:29, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
Some prisoners are shown to be moved from somehere to somewhere else  . It is unclear who is formally in charge in what is hopefully a start of some sort of prisoner exchange process --Chingachgook (talk) 01:49, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
Latest on Savchenko: her appeal against detention extended till February was denied. Circumstances of her arrest are disputed. She was said to be with Aidar battalion, and presented in press as a fire corrector or helicopter door gunner. But she said she came there on vacation to see her friends (in ATO area, and staying at an army base with them). According to her LifeNews interview, 24.07, she was arrested (in ATO area) when she tried to get a car to rescue wounded soldiers, but walked into an ambush. She is currently held in Russia and is accused of relating to Ukraine coordinates of journalists, killed by mortar fire. Her defense submitted to the appeal hearing some cell phone records/billing evidence that her and the journalists paths did not intersect, and that she was under arrest in Luhansk at the time when journalists died. Savchenko was required to undergo psychiatric evaluation at a clinic in Moscow, as part of court procedures (defense requested an ambulatory evaluation, without stay at the clinic; that was denied). She was elected Rada deputy (Timoshenko block); and Ukraine is appealing for her release. Savchenko is trained as helicopter navigator-pilot. She has military training, and prior experience of serving in a Ukrainian unit in Iraq, for 6 months.
A priest, Vladimir Moretsky, recorded a brief video on 16 of September, claiming that he was severely beaten, including by Savchenko herself, when he was in detention, and threatened by her in a number of ways (including suggestions to have him sold for organs or executed, made to his other captors, and eventually declined by those captors, but leaving the priest fearful as he thought that the threats were real). Vladimir Moretsky is a priest who supported separatists. He was arrested, moved to Ukrainian army base, and beaten, in Novoaidar, near Luhansk, in May 2014. He appears in a 30 May video, said to be at one of Kharkov court houses, and is said to be needing hospitalization, which was not allowed by the guards. His family continued to appeal for his release a month later. He was said to be released shortly before 16 September video was taken, but I have not seen further details of his release or custody. --Resup (talk) 14:37, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
- According to this unsourced story in Russia Insider he was released "a few days ago" which may be first few days of October. But more likely sometime before the Sept 16 video, as unlikely he could make that from custody. Story quotes from video. Very high on vague allegations, very low on precise details about anything; I'll believe he was captured but that's it, everything he says is useless as evidence of any kind. KatKan (talk) 14:22, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
- I am pro-release but this may create or add problems in having her released. In Russia, normally there is no bail during criminal investigation, people are held in "preliminary detention" in separate prisons used to be called СИЗО. There is lower standard in having somebody investigated, something like a "probable cause" in the West (not 'beyond a reasonable doubt'). If somebody is a priest, it is likely to be respected by majority of Russians, orthodox Christianity became socially influential in post-USSR. (+ miscarriages of justice can occur anywhere...) --Resup (talk) 15:16, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
An open letter to the Russian President pointing out that Savchenko may die (she is on a long hunger strike); that her crime is not proven and defense presented an alibi case; that alternative ways of detention are possible; asking for mercy and release from preliminary detention. Signed by 11.5 thousand Russian citizens. -- All sounds reasonable, indeed if she dies in custody, it will create a problem. Latest is that she declined life-supporting glucose doses. All this may run into being a problem. It's best to work something out, perhaps changing custody house arrest while court case continues, or including in prisoners swap. This maybe highly charged issue where it is difficult to make progress, but the reality is that many other war prisoners were shooting and killing people, and swapped for others anyway. In her case, it is not established. There may be (I would imagine) a swap around Soviet Army day, 23 February ; don't really see why not to swap her (or change detention method; or something). No serious benefit holding; a problem is she dies in custody--no need for martyrs of their cause. --Resup (talk) 21:21, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Russian and Ukrainian sources agree that Savchenko partially ended hunger strike, taking chicken bouillon (Ukrainian Foreign Ministry considers this continued strike, while some Russian sources present this as ending strike) . --Resup (talk) 23:39, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Spartak Golovachev is a sportsmen (free-diving and wrestling), and an opposition activist from Kharkov. Helped to resolve a conflict between the opposition and authorities, and negotiated after fire was set to regional administration building on April 7-8, 2014; but was not involved in violence. Arrested and held without bail (or trial conviction) from April 2014. On 23.02.15 started his second, time-unlimited hunger strike. Complains about artificial delays in hearings and harsh conditions of his confinement (similar to those for dangerous convicts). So far did not want to be exchanged, hoping to get justice in Ukrainian courts, but now seems to have his doubts. --Resup (talk) 16:17, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
MAJOR difficulties of POW MIA work
Ruban's POW MIA work on government side were heard reporting MAJOR difficulties. This mission is not really done by government, it is done by a military officer, who set something up. But this officer by his code of conduct cannot tell his boss to cause the desired outcome. His only option is to wait for journos to yell so much that something will happen (But yelling of all those journos is inverse proportional to their reasonableness ).
- This is a HUGE problem. It will take a new and reconciliatory Government to handle it. Because
- some POWS taken by Donbas are changing sides
- some weren't even actually really taken prisoner
- some MIA are missing on purpose (a welcoming country is real close)
- these are a permanent propaganda thorn in their side
- if anyone was mistreated by the Kiev side, once they're home they'll talk.
These guys are in a situation where they might be killed any minute. They don't plan very far ahead. When it's time to go home they will fear reprisals for where they've been. (Similar reason for why the Donbass guys cannot surrender or stop fighting. Fighting possibly extends their lives, in comparison to surrendering).
But if these are not sorted out, they'll never know who got killed and quickly buried. So the Government will never have peace from the relatives.
This poor mangled country is 100 or more years overdue for national reconciliation. Otherwise the hate will just fester and the trouble start up over and over. KatKan (talk) 17:57, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
DPR ombudsman Darya Morozova says that DPR returned all their prisoners, due to requests of their parents, by a decision of Zakharchenko -"Youtube", Apr 6, 2015
LPR and DPR agreed with Kiev to hold an exchange of prisoners according to the formula "618" (pro-Novorossia) for "47" (Ukrainian POWs)- Kobtseva lug-info.com, 22 September, 2016
- But this did not happen in reality. Huge number of pro-Russian prisoners apparently as they were not given to LPR/DPR voluntarily, records not provided, randomly arrested people from the street used for exchange, and so on. But also raises questions on LPR/DPR exchange tactics/policies. --Resup (talk) 16:51, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
Ruban Vladimir Vladimirovich. This tries to talk down his efforts, point out gaps in his military record, and most of all paint him as getting too close to DPR/LPR, Nothing really serious here, apart from the effort to find something wrong.
- A bit more on his military service, with photos.
'Gosha from Odessa', infoodessa.com, 21 October 2015. Sharply critical of DPR ombudsman Darya Morozova, claiming that she is not doing enough to have prisoners in Odessa (numbers not provided), and in Kharkov (said to be 250) released. According to the author, he arranged his own release in Odessa with a help from relatives. Also accusations of glamorous lifestyle, and raising question on whether Ukrainian prisoners releases were in exchange for payment, and whether or not those payments will be used to release prisoners on the other side. It is unclear whether 'Gosha' has the facts right, this is an emotional letter mostly driven by annoyance by social media activity by the ombudsman, as well as dire POWs situation overall. Also this letter is not new and things may change for better. However in the view of a large number of Novorossians still in prison, and small number of Ukrainian POWs, a cause for concern here.--Resup (talk) 16:51, 21 October 2016 (UTC)