Talk:Tekkim Chemical Test Video

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This is a talk page for discussing Tekkim Chemical Test Video. For sources, claims and narratives see the main page. (To see what is hot, see recent changes)

"Inscription" translation

The poster in the background says one or a few things repeatedly in different languages, including partial English, saying "Wind Isber Chemical Inscription." Chemical, we see what that means. Inscription ... not clear, signaling the type of outfit they are. Winds...yes, air that moves and carries chemicals, got it. Isber is mysterious. Does it mean mighty? A mighty wind chemical brigade? No relation to the mockumentary A Mighty Wind, I presume, if so. I found around "issber (let-hold on patiently [you*])", used in "so issber for your Lord's rule." Wind <-> Patient Chemical Group? That's all the time I have for that. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:43, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Off topic
Quote:
Oh a mighty winds a blowin', it's kickin' up the sand
It's blowin' out a message to every woman, child and man
Yes, a mighty winds a blowin' cross the land and cross the sea
It's blowin' peace and freedom, it's blowin' equality
Yes, it's blowin' peace and freedom, it's blowin' you and me
This Mighty Wind is definitely blowing from the East, slowly progressing from the high pressure system in central Eurasia. The current degeneration in weather is more Westerly, with its origin in the low pressure systems in the North Atlantic. -- Petri Krohn (talk)
Readers at Moon of Alabama have it largely figured out (see the comments). Kitaba (inscription) should be Katiba (brigade). Somehow Isber comes out as "furious" by one reader. But it seems unsure, compared to the good overall monologue transcription. The content of that both suggests (self-described, self-congratulatory) patience (only gassing the Alawites after negotiations), and it also makes it seem more realistic and thus quite possibly not a fake. --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:13, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

From assembled Arabic, If the matching Arabic looks like:

  • عسبر = difficult, severe, intractable, etc. (Google translate)
  • اســبــر = be patient, or ... mummify as an alternate(?). Actress: Jenny Esber, from Latakia
  • اسبر = probe, search, exploration, verb or noun (research?)
  • If something else, (might be 6 other ways to yield Isber) I have no match for yet. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:00, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Sources

Thanks to Petri for the first links - the top one yields some of those below, to be incorporated in the main page in time: "Wind Isber Chemical Inscription"

Discussion
Lots of great comments there. Also a good question in the article:
As Obama and Clinton have threatened to attack Syria should chemical weapons be used there it might well be possible that the terrorists fighting the Syrian government are preparing for a "false flag" use of chemical weapons to draw the U.S. into their fight. But if that is the case why prepare and publish a video about that capability?
Argues for a fake, but there's other clues arguing against-perhaps there was some intended audience mix-up? --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:47, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Newer:

Google translate snippet:"In the meantime, the relevant chemistry Tekkim explanation came: "It's clear provocation. Overseas sales to does not exist. That substances produced chemical weapons"" ...
There were also earlier reports that the opposition fighters in Syria had been provided with gas masks and they were willing to initiate a chemical weapons attack which would then be blamed on the Syrian government to set the pretext for a NATO-led intervention. A new video shows a Syrian rebel group with chemical containers from TEKKIM, a Turkish Chemicals company, testing on lab rabbits a chemical combination most likely to be used as nerve agents. This raises serious concerns about a chemical weapons attack by the opposition being possible.
On Tuesday, a video was uploaded to YouTube showing Syrian rebels testing chemical weapons on rabbits while jihadist chants go on in the background. In the video, containers of Tekkim are shown, which is a Turkish chemicals company. On the wall is a poster with Arabic writing on it that reads “The Almighty Wind Brigade (Kateebat A Reeh Al Sarsar),” according to the Syria Tribune.
Indeed, the only evidence that suggests chemical weapons may be in preparation for use in Syria comes from a video which apparently shows US-backed Syrian rebels testing chemical weapons on rabbits in a lab while bragging about how they will deploy them to kill pro-Assad Allawites.
If that's the angle we need to at least get Americans to pay attention to what these "Syrian rebel" scumbags are up to, so be it. The jihadists have chemical weapons (which they successfully test on rabbits in this video) -- and they're prepared to use them. The only thing we're not sure about is the sequence. Attack Assad's forces, first? Or will they lob them at Tel Aviv the first chance they get?
Pentagon officials say that there is no evidence that Syria is mixing chemical weapons, and “it’s not even clear that the precursors have been moved from separate storage sites to one location” On the other hand, the the Syria Tribune has released a video allegedly showing Syrian rebels killing rabbits with chemical weapons, and threatening to use them against supporters of the Syrian government. (It is impossible at this point to say whether this is genuine or propaganda)
“Our concerns are that an increasingly desperate Assad regime might turn to chemical weapons or might lose control of them to one of the many groups that are operating within Syria,” Clinton told reporters Wednesday.
Syrian rebels also claim to have reached Safira, a town with stockpiles of chemical weapons south east of Aleppo, according to a video posted to YouTube.
According to another video posted to YouTube, rebels threaten to kill Naseeriyah, the Alawite sect, "and supporters of Bashar Al-Aasad with our chemical weapons.”
Note: apparent link to Nassiriyah district, Taldou, where the Alawites might live. But after a little searching, I think it's an error. Nothing else but the Shi'a nature of the Iraqi Nasiriyah suggests a link. Nusayri/Nusairi, a different butsimilar word, is an alternate name for the Alawi. I think the similarity is a coincidence, or perhaps a general Shi'ite thing, with the district named for the Iraqi city. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:42, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, it's an alternative (and apparently derogatory) name for Alawites, after this guy. --CE (talk) 14:02, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
The video features two rabbits that die in convulsions just a minute after inhaling a chemical agent.
A text underneath the video reads, “Your destiny would be like them because you are missionaries for Naseeriyah and supporters of Bashar Al-Aasad. God is great. God is Great. Wait and see. We from the AR-Reeh Asarsar Chemical Battalion, the Destructive Wind Chemical Battalion – we shall kill you all with our chemical weapons.”

CNN, HRW, etc. apparently nothing yet.--Caustic Logic (talk) 13:17, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Original Upload

I don't know if it's possible to determine the exact time of a video upload on youtube, but right now when I look at their "Feed", the video Moon of Alabama said was uploaded "one hour before" the other they link says for me "uploaded two days ago", while the other one and the one from Syria Tribune both say "uploaded one day ago". So it seems that at least among those three uploaders, أحمد السوري was first, maybe around exactly two days ago. This is an account created on Oct 19th with only this video uploaded. The first action "a month ago" was to subscribe to the channel of MBC group, which is a Saudi mediagroup belonging to the "royal" family. --CE (talk) 19:22, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Good work for a start. I didn't check the link he provided. That's an unusual account not likely to be an earlier picker-up of new things. Maybe the original. One month, no other videos. Subscriptions. Weird channel -rebel links at top (last). Arab lackey media 2nd. First, RT, Syrian loyalist media, and MBC group, not sure what that means. A loyalists who started real, tried to look rebel, posted this one video? Even if it's fake I support charges for the rabbits.Title/desc. ambiguous. As translated: "Look Who's Got the chemical in Syria / This is what the so-called criminals trying revolution do." Is he saying criminals, so-called criminals, clearly criminals, what? --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:07, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
I still don'tknow what to make of this posting/poster, nor whether it's the first-known, but left a Google-Arabic comment for the poster asking for more info. I'll try to keep an eye out for any response, but somehow I expect cryptic silence. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, should have mentioned that he also subscribed to the likes of RT. In general I agree with you that this is a bit too convenient and smells of "let's make the rebels look evil". Almost parody-like. Poor rabbits. --CE (talk) 11:16, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
That's how I'm leaning but not heavily. With all we've seen and learned, I can still see this being exactly the warning some cleric advising a Gulf financier mandated. It had to be sent to the targeted Alawites in advance, on CD Rom by snail mail (along with a note specifying it meant them, and giving a deadline), he said, but someone leaked it to Youtube, to this guy, someone with connections but little previous activity, (could be normal/non-rebel Syrian otherwise). Or ... it's a fake normal-Syrian-looking channel, not a hammed-up fake loyalist with too many holes to find, as the convenient host for the real warning they hope Alawites will take seriously enough. A simple fog machine might now clear a whole village in panic, and most of us will just presume it was all a hoax. And perhaps it was meant to fulfill that prophecy Obama heard some version of. Fascinating, serious stuff either way. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:09, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
the one on SyriaTube, uploaded "an hour later", has higher quality, as MoA rightfully pointed out, so likely both are not the original upload. --CE (talk) 13:08, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

What Chemical is Being Tested?

Sarin Simulation?

If anyone looks up or stumbles across the details (way of killing) of the poisons shown by name, the one(s) shown in action, and the "feared" government Sarin, please drop it here. Nerves are apparently attacked by both Sarin and whatever killed the bunnies. The question: could these be used to convincingly fake the exact thing the Obama regime has been predicting the government was preparing to do? --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:47, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

No clear sign of a nerve agent. What looked to me like poor coordination was panic plus a slippery floor. They simply cant's get up, slip and trip over each others, and wind up giving up on the floor. Poor things. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:28, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Chlorine?

Thanks to Pmr9, I suspect this is a chlorine test. The method would be hydrochloric acid (a clear liquid) added to crystals of potassium permanganate (a red-purple powder), which will produce chlorine gas. Working video link - At the start are large 1kg tubs of potassium permanganate, as labeled. Also at 0:48 in the video is one smaller jug of a powdered substance, label unclear, but may also contain this too - a dark, reddish powder, recently tilted as if to pour some out.

At the rabbit cage: What's in the beaker is unclear, mostly cropped, but seems to be dark colored. It could well be pp crystals. A clear fluid he handles carefully is poured into the flask. It expands violently into a dark, maybe purple-ish liquid, emitting a pale-colored gas and then settling down. This could be green-yellow chlorine gas, just too thin to really read the color. It looks almost white. It's heavy, and rolls to the floor, and dissipates.

Tekkim reaction.png

The rabbits' Reaction is consistent enough, and pretty slow. Chlorine turns back to hydrochloric acid as soon as it contacts water. The rabbits don't like breathing it, and blink their eyes as if irritated. I didn't notice them coughing any blood or mucous. What does a rabbit cough even look like? They only slowly start to panic about it. There's some effort to get up above the worst air, but they panic, slip and trip over each other and finally give up and die on the floor, after some time just laying there. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:28, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

The gas is almost certainly chlorine color (see above). The white rabbit doesn't just blink but squeezes its eyes shut most of the time, and also seems to sort of sneeze a few times, and might be bleeding from the nose. The darker one maybe too, but it's harder to tell. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:10, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

This seems to be the method used in the March 16, 2015 incident in Sarmin, causing the red-purple puddles all over the alleged Taleb family home. But of course it's not what killed the babies shown dying on video, who don't seem to have been touched by chlorine. (see Alleged Chemical Attack, March 16, 2015) --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:28, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Location?

Is this in Syria or in Turkey? This article in the Turkish Newspaper Yurt says this happened in the eastern Turkish city of Gaziantep.

The laboratory glassware on the Bunsen burner is labeled Lamtek. It is distributed by the same Turkish company that sells Tekkim chemicals.

Is this a family kitchen or some school chemistry laboratory? I say kitchen, as there are some cooking utensils hanging from the wall.

An interesting clue appears at 1:20. The cabinet above the sink appears to be a dish draining closet (Finnish: astiankuivauskaappi). This piece of kitchen furniture is known as a Finnish innovation from the 1940s. It is generally unknown in the West, and fast loosing its utility with the adaption of dishwashers. It would be highly useful in less developed countries, like Turkey and Syria. I do not know if it has been adopted in either one. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:47, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Great addition, thanks. I would just call it some kind of cabinet. That and the polished furniture suggests a cosmopolitan, upper-class home - something really swank with Finnish touches and such when the older person living there had it commissioned some decades ago. Somewhere not yet ravaged by rebel assaults and gov. responses. Turkey really seems more likely than not even before seeing so much Turkish stuff which, more than the whole home decor, couldjust be planted anywhere. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:09, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
I think the pattern on the cloths the chemicals are on, especially the one in the beginning, don't look oriental at all, more like something you can buy at IKEA. There are electrical installations seen 1:20-1:25, right from the sink and at the wall on the other side of the door. Those look quite developed, i'd say, although I can't even determine if they're light switches or wall outlets. But not something i'd expect in rural Syria or Turkey. --CE (talk) 12:58, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Chemical Catalog

Sporadic notes: 0:18 - 1:00 in the video: potassium chlorate (not chloride) -1 kg containers, implied by grouping, 19 of them in rows of five then four. On top (3:43), three kg bottles: Ammonium Nitrate, Urea, Magnesium Nitrate(?) To the right three more, only front one visible, not clear. On top of those, the lone bottle of brown fluid, much smaller size, label not readable. Two more kg bottles to the right, then three big containers, some liters each (?), of ammonia.

Tekkim chemicals in rebel hands

From ANNA News on Syria:

Unexpected find by Syrian soldiers
Published on Apr 6, 2013

The video shows Tekkim chemicals somewhere in rebel territory. (Se second half of video.) The location is not identified. I do not know if this has anything to do with the chemical test video. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:23, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Potassium fluoride?

Revealed: Britain sold nerve gas chemicals to Syria 10 months after war began
FURIOUS politicians have demanded Prime Minister David Cameron explain why chemical export licences were granted to firms last January – 10 months after the Syrian uprising began.
BRITAIN allowed firms to sell chemicals to Syria capable of being used to make nerve gas, the Sunday Mail can reveal today. Export licences for potassium fluoride and sodium fluoride were granted months after the bloody civil war in the Middle East began.
The chemical is capable of being used to make weapons such as sarin, thought to be the nerve gas used in the attack on a rebel-held Damascus suburb which killed nearly 1500 people, including 426 children, 10 days ago.

Do we see potassium fluoride among the chemicals? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:59, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

This video expalins, these chamicals are used for water fluoridization.