Talk:Qalb Lawzah Massacre

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Page Name

Not sure why I went with Lawzah. It's lousy. Most are using Lawzeh, some Loze or Loza per SOHR (not the one to follow there). Final letter is tricky: ة‎ is way down under 'conditional forms' on the Wikipedia Arabic alphabet page - explained name: tā’ marbūṭah translit: h or t / h / ẗ Phonemic Value (IPA): /a/, /at/ . I thinks it's like (blank vowel, e or a) followed by a "silent" h (muted glottal stop / soft throat click). But quite likely, I don't really know what I'm talking about yet.

Anyway, maybe ah is fine, but I found it makes the page appear less in searches, not that it's likely to score high anyway, considering how much there is out there on this incident. If anyone else thinks it's worth re-directing, maybe we should. I'm inclined to not, but I dunno, and there is that problem. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:18, 16 June 2015 (UTC)


I already aired a couple basic questions about this on the front page, was verging into more but stopped. Here's a space to go deeper into the consideration of this unusual aspect. Is it a sectarian massacre, Sunnis killing Sunnis over a simple real estate dispute, both, or what? --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:18, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

me on Twitter #Syria 2011-2015 rebel chant Christians 2 Beirut, Alawite 2 graveyard, #Druze ur Sunnis now k? see map and reflect. linked map of demographics - see the pocket of purple in the north, in two parts, site of our community in discussion somewhere near that split, southern part. Besides a couple other small areas they predominate in, there's the much bigger stronghold in Sweida in the south, which most people talk about, and to whom Jumblatt is talking. Jumablatt tells Syria's Druze "before being Druse, are part of Syria, and they are Arabs,” he said. “Their natural environment is Sunni. Their only way is to reconcile with that environment, with the people of Dara’a, the first people who revolted against Assad.” So, before being Druze, you are Sunni? Actually the map shows their main neighbors north of Deraa are (were?) mixed Sunni and some Christian (too many shades to be sure which). These will have their own reconciliation to do, if they haven't already. And what about those Alawite areas? Those folks have a lot of blood on their hands, communal blood. Will the former Druze be asked to prove their Sunni credentials by joining in the fight against the all these infidels?

Death Toll

Ayman Tamimi's report gives 23 dead, as an exact number, and provides a complete list of 23 names. I think that's a low count.

YaLibnan, June 12 "the actual number of Druze people that were massacred exceeds 40 according to reliable sources in Qalb Lawzeh . The sources identified 27 of the massacred people."

I'll make a table to compare the two lists, and if info arises, maybe expand it later.

Numbering is from Tamimi's list. A couple of entries may collapse into one (unnamed "son of" for example). But with clear matches laid out and counted alongside all non-matches suggests 35 named victims so far. That's above 20-30, probably above JaN's poss. 32, and is still not necessarily complete. 40+ seems quite likely.

24 collapsed into #10 - double-listed name (same as #8) vs. unnamed suggests twin brother, name got confused, something. That makes 34.
Victims by Source
# Tamimi Ya Libnan Other (f/c)
1 Sheikh Nadim Faris Shaheen Sheikh Nadim Shaheen,

2 Sheikh Rasheed Sa’ad Sheikh Rashid Saad

3 Milad An’am Allah Razaq Milad Rizk

4 Fakher Ahmad al-Shabali Faker al Shibli,

5 Fakhro Ahmad al-Shabali Fakhro al Shibli

6 Ahmad Fakhro al-Shabali Ahmed Fakhro al Shibli

7 Man’am Fakhro al-Shabali Menem Fakhro Shibli

8 Faraj Fakhro al-Shabali Faraj Fakhro al-Shibli

9 Muhammad Sharif Aqfali Mohammed Aagafla
10 Faraj Fakhro al-Shabali Son of Ahmed Fakhro al Shibli

11 Aymenn Muhammad Aqfali

12 Maymun Muhammad Aqfali

13 Wissam Nazhat Hussein
14 Manhal Nazhat Hussein

15 Melham Faris Shaheen Mulhem Faiz Shaheen

16 Ahmad Muhammad Hussein

17 Muhammad Ahmad Hussein Mohamed Ahmed Hussein
18 Badro Khayro al-Shabali Badro al Shibli

19 Khayro Badro al-Shabali Khairo Badro al Shibli

20 Lami’ Thabit al-Shabali

21 Hayder Fariz al-Shabali Haider Farid al-Shibli

22 Khayro Thabit al-Shabali

23 Rashad Faysal al-Shabali

24 Ahmed Hussein Mohamed

25 Anwar al-Shibli

26 Naif Al-Shibli
27 Milad Enaam Rizk
28 Mohammed Sharif Mohammed

29 Ayman Mohammed Sharif Mohammed
30 Memon Mohammed Sharif Mohammed
31 Manhal Hussein Mohamed
32 Moeyyed alShibli
33 Ahmed Hussein Mohamed
34 Rashid Saad Ajaweed

VDC Records

I finally checked (or saw that) VDC lists 12 victims of this massacre but since rebels killed them they're on the regime forces list, rank:civilian. The names are the same; Shibli and Akfali, mainly. VDC only lists 4 Idlib civilians dying that day as "martyrs" - 4 men from Jisr Shagour: Marj Ez-Zohour, "Several people martyred due to helicopter shelling with explosive barrels in midnight" at Idlib: Kastoun, some ways to the south. Possibly related: June 10 saw 20 civilians with different names killed by shelling in other towns of Idlib, an unusual event not seen on the 9th, 11th, or 12th. 10th/11th/midnight, 36 total, hm... --Caustic Logic (talk) 06:50, 10 October 2015 (UTC)