Talk:Murder of Boris Nemtsov

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This is a talk page for discussing Murder of Boris Nemtsov. For sources, claims and narratives see the main page. (To see what is hot, see recent changes)

Scope

I do not think WE have to investigate this, but we may still need a place to collect sources. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 11:13, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Probably, but there are few primary sources, so far we are heavy on tabloids, translated or straight in English.--Resup (talk) 01:37, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
It now seems that many of the potential suspects are known to us from the Maidan massacre, the Odessa massacre and MH17 clearly putting this attack in our scope. This started in al-Baida in Libya on February 17th, 2011. All we have done is followed the leads. Interestingly, this is the first time our paths have crossed. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 09:25, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Breaking!

Boris Nemtsov and Boris Yeltsin in Nizhnii Novogorod, Aug. 1994

27.02.2015 Russian opposition/reform/pro-Western politician Boris Nemtsov was shot and killed in Moscow by an unknown gunman TASS-English, BBC. Born in Nizhnii Novgorod, early advocate of Western type reforms, First Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation in times of Yeltsin presidency. Later stayed in opposition. Was critical about Russian involvement in Ukraine, as well as current Ukrainian leadership, high corruption/incompetence. His party PARNAS co-chair Kasianov is in shock, does not have a theory; Nemtsov did not tell him about threats or being followed.

Western sources give different sort of quotes. Kasianov: "That a leader of the opposition could be shot beside the walls of the Kremlin is beyond imagination. There can be only one version: that he was shot for telling the truth,"
Mikhail Kasyanov, a fellow opposition leader, said that. But if he wants to narrow it to only one option, he'll have to prove that only government-approved and inspected cars can possibly drive in this area. Cannot prove that? Then fail, there will be different possibilities, including that brilliant deduction. --Caustic Logic (talk) 01:23, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
It was kind of politico-emotionally-symbolic, I guess...--Resup (talk) 19:52, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
There are no security arrangement at the spot. Anybody can move around with a gun. Little different from killing someone in New York with a view of the Statue of Liberty. Bridges are inherently unsafe. The stairs give four possible escape routes. See my photo here. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 20:20, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Opposition quite uniformly say something like, in a tightly controlled state, that should not be happening, but it did, and so please find the killer quite quickly, or we are going to blame the state. --Resup (talk) 20:45, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Investigation

Putin orders FSB and MoI to get this under personal control (meaning high levels of priority), calls this "a cruel killing with all the signs of a murder-for-hire, of extremely provocative kind" TASS-English (исключительно, literally "exclusively/exceptionally" is translated as "purely" in English version but extremely may be better translation in this context) . (Spokesman Peskov later called the murder a "100 % provocation").

Olga Shorina, executive director of Nemtsov party RPR-PARNAS met with investigators on 28.02.15, and answered their questions. She said that their party does not have a suspect/explanation. She sad that her impression was that investigators are looking at all possible motives, with no preference, at this time. Investigation is at high level, lead by a person in the rank of a general (source: TV Rain interview.)--Resup (talk) 12:54, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

The Murder

Life News-Investigation Committee update. Weapon believed to be Makarov 9mm pistol, with ammo coming from several manufacturers. Vladimir Markin-motives considered: provocation to destabilize situation in Russia; islamic extremism (fresh publications on some threats because of position of Nemtsov with respect to Charlie Hebdo; do not see old publications; events in Ukraine; commercial activity and personal conflicts; and "other domestic versions" (the girl, etc.). Ingush track may end up in a cold case, they would be guns-for-hire, but who ordered the hit is more difficult to find --Resup (talk) 14:43, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

A car with Ingush license plates recovered. (Ingushetia borders Chechnya and has some similarities, a volatile region.) It is one of several suspected cars; there is no clear confirmation from Investigative Committee. --Resup (talk) 22:20, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Snowplow. A video from a security camera emerged (also here) "An all-weather video camera records Moskvoretsky bridge around the clock.It recorded the crime up to the second. Low quality footage, but the cars and people silhouettes can be seen. Normal Moscow evening. On the bridge there are still a lot of cars and passers-by. 23.30 - the two of them, presumably, Boris Nemtsov and his companion, walk towards Bolotnaya Square. Slowly catching up with them moves a snow-blower (= a machine which removes snow). At 23.31 the snow-blower hides them from the camera. After a moment, another man rushes out into the roadway, quickly gets into a car and drives away(???).
later comments: there is a stairway going under the bridge right there. Apparently the person (the killer) was hiding there at the stairway.

Snow-blower stops a few meters away from the scene. There is only one silhouette - presumably the Nemtsov's lady companion . Than she approaches the snow-blower driver. For a few minutes she stays behind the snow-blower. On the bridge there are still pedestrians walking. Some people pass by as if nothing had happened, others are interested and stop. One person examines the place of Nemtsov death , and runs up to the snow -blower, whereby the girl stays. Then he returns to the body of the deceased. At 23.35 the first car stops here and a few seconds later leaves. The girl returns to the crime scene. Two more people approach. At 23.37 another car flies past. Dramatically slows down and comes back. Stands in front of the scene for a while. Two people suddenly run away under the bridge. A third car arrives, and than both cars leave. The girl is left alone. Another person passes by. At 23.42 police arrived on the scene. From under the bridge two people emerge - presumably those that fled, - the question is why?"--Resup (talk) 20:28, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Snow truck hides the sudden appearance of the gunman. If he was at the stairs, he can't be seen running from there, that I saw. Two people there when the truck passes, suddenly after one's standing, one's running away, and presumably Nemtsov is dead (sleight-of-hand shell game would be totally possible though, considering). Was the shooter in the snow truck? Hitching a ride unseen on the side of it? Or just invisibly hidden before that point? --Caustic Logic (talk) 04:42, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
That was actually a cleaning machine (and no snow, rain, at the time). The driver (Sergei) was found; but have nothing to say, did not notice the murder, busy cleaning.' Saw a man down and the girl approaching. Asked what's with the man and how he feels; the girl said he was shot at, and asked what to do, how to get help. He called an ambulance, and left, to clean the street further. --Resup (talk) 05:13, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
The two who walk down the stairs, one seems to be the woman (white top, at least from the back) and they just stand off to the side there, maybe going over what to say, and come back up and talk to the police when they arrive. Who's the other person, I don't know. Maybe a passerby who decided they should get off the bridge, not knowing who or where the shooter was? A lot of shapes coming and going here, not possible to be sure who's who, etc. But only one person and car is clearly fleeing the scene. Others might be. --Caustic Logic (talk) 04:42, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Work with cameras appears well prepared. Other cameras apparently towards Kremlin; may be the only one for the bridge (unclear reports on the topic) --Resup (talk) 20:56, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

The witness

After listening fuller clip of the interview (goes past her saying it was from the back, for a couple more minutes). Says that she did not see the killer. When she turned back, she saw a light color car departing (so, 6 or 7 shots,-- but only noticed departing car). Cannot say or remember anything else (that is, whether they were followed, was the killer hiding on the bridge or stairs, does she know where she was taken to interrogations, and does she know why she was held. Does not believe jealousy may be the cause, no threats from any friends. Now wants to go to mommy in bad psychological shape, already said everything she knew, and does not know why still not let go. Eyes rolled up pretty much throughout, blank /zombie look, similarly about emotions. Something strange about all this, like coached or in transe or sedatives; but with young girls, who knows (I don't). ----Resup (talk) 05:21, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Recent Background

Recently it was claimed that he may have moved to Israel because of a criminal case. But that was denied by Nemtsov, and pending criminal case was denied by both Nemtsov and the Russian criminal investigations authority (publication date is 14 Apr 2014). On 21.07.14, Nemtsov made comments on a video which some considered an insult to authorities of the state, but after a linguistic expertise a criminal case was not opened --so the matter itself is in the garbage bin (but perhaps could give ideas for low class provocateurs) --Resup (talk) 22:25, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Happened shortly prior to country-wide opposition "Anti Crisis" march planned for March 1. He was in a company of a young female Ukrainian model Anna, and walking through the city after a dinner in city center; could be followed. Communist Duma member and vice-speaker Melnikov compared the murder to MH17 shoot down (meaning extreme provocation). Poroshenko sent condolences. TASS--Resup (talk) 23:26, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Who could follow and track a prominent Ukrainian citizen who meets with foreign political leaders? The SBU, obviously. Could be a tracking her phone so she doesn't even need to call in, if she's collaborating, or just old-fashioned following. Same people would, after the restaurant, be tracking Nemtsov. --Caustic Logic (talk) 01:23, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Ukrainian origin--could be, but a dangerous move as than chances to get caught are high. So far in Russia opposition and pro-government are considering whether to blame the other side. With some attempts at convergence -trying to deescalate instead.
The girl, named Anna Duritskaia (the base verb durit' means to fool) is under guard at a flat provided by Nemtsov supporter, wants to go back to Ukraine, softly prevented from doing so. Have met with Ukrainian consul (interfax). --Resup (talk) 12:42, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
That snowplow job is spectacular, have you seen it? There is a tweet saying that "snowplow blocked the view at lightpost number 6, and the staircase is number 7 (where the two guys vanished later also). Like he was riding snowplow or hiding somewhere behind stone wall. --Resup (talk) 01:58, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Apparently on 10.02.15 Nemtsov gave an interview to Sobesednik, sharing that his mother is fearful that he may be killed for his critical comments; he said that he has a little bit of fear (but not that much, or otherwise he would not lead an opposition party; and hoping for things to be OK).--Resup (talk) 08:39, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Ukraine?

Before his death, Nemtsov is said to be working on a book on Ukraine. According to opposition sources, it is said that topics include discussing (the manner and degree) of Russian involvement; and the controversy around MH17. Details of claims are unknown. This work was also mentioned by Poroshenko (Poroshenko made a claim that this work will show Russian troops involvement; however Poroshenko is an interested party with a questionable record,-- and claims needs to be judged based on their merits). --Resup (talk) 12:54, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I suspect someone in the Ukraine-SBU-Right Sector nexus and their Russian cohorts, set Nemtsov up to start writing a book like that, just copying over NYT reports, just so it could look like the long-awaited sequel to the bible when someone up and shoots the guy, as they say, for 'speaking the truth.' Right Sector allies in Russia supply ready-made signs saying like they do "Heroes never die." (Petri on Facebook) The "Not-dead Heroes appear just on our schedule" sign wasn't so good. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:34, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Not like that. He is a smart and good person. Politics -yes, different viewpoint from ours -maybe (or not that different), but a tool- no. --Resup (talk) 14:21, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Reuters on some (unconfirmed) details of Nemtsov work on Ukraine. Volunteers (i.e quit Army, join opolchenie) were never really denied; small number of non-volunteers (i.e. failing to properly quit before joining) were publicly alleged in Russia well before Nemtsov (by Vasilieva-Gruz 200 , Lev Shlossberg; tv rain attempted an investigation; etc) . So an allegation that something was improper in case of 17 soldiers --even if such allegation would be actually made---would not be a groundbreaking event, requiring an extraordinary response by the system--and would not be dealt by murdering Nemtsov and sending the contested materials to Reuters. --Resup (talk) 00:03, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Olga Shorina (the allegation source): 'most of the materials in the planned book on Ukraine were taken from open sources; the report did not contain sensational information' -05.03.15 tvrain.ru --Resup (talk) 00:48, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Who is to Blame?

Opposition blames the government, indirectly (hate/violence speak), or directly. (They do not blame Ukraine because politically they were always anti-war, in the form of being pro-Ukraine).

Anit-maidan/Novorossia blames "geopolitical foes" (like cia or similar). (They do not blame Ukraine because they feel they are sort of better and that would not be allowed to happen) .

Alternative logic generator blames SBU (given that this is FSB or SBU, and given that not FSB, then must be SBU). --Resup (talk) 01:05, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Suspects

Unofficial sources claim that Zaur Dadaev confessed, and is said to blame Nemtsov statements about Islam or North Caucasus autonomous republics which he considered negative/offensive; sources suggest that Nemtsov support of caricaturists at Charlie Hebdo also played a role. There is no direct evidence or official confirmation, so it should be taken with a grain of salt. --Resup (talk) 17:41, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Opinions

Strelkov. Absolutely no benefit, and only harm, for Novorossia; and no benefit to Putin. Nemtsov caused zero harm to Novorossia movement. Murder was very well prepared and executed, the work of a team of professionals. Maybe a provocation to show Novorossia supporters in bad light. Very likely Ukrainian connection. --Resup (talk) 23:13, 17 June 2015 (UTC)