Off-topic, but on-site, and since I can't find the discussion, I have now seen/saved the SANA cached images of the Houla dead. I could see the cached version, but somehow didn't bother scrolling down and looking 'til last night. Most of those are from videos I've been seeing around, even the top one. Sorting out a bit -these few videos of in-situ dead seem to be less shown by rebels and maybe not theirs. They only seem to have started filming mostly at the mosque, which is rather odd come to think of it. Also, the scant text there offers clues I didn't know-an Aref Al-Sayed mentioned, related to an Oqba, etc... --Caustic Logic 09:25, 6 October 2012 (EST)
- And I'll refer to your video list - already saw new things. I did not know that famous scene of 17 dead kids was also filmed with full lighting and good resolution. I though once it was in the home's basement maybe, but it's at the mosque. I think a lot of the training they've gotten from the NED types is how to stabilize their snuff films and use better lighting and when to use high vs. low resolution. --Caustic Logic 09:33, 6 October 2012 (EST)
- No, it does not. Besides, wee need plenty of horizontal space for the galleries. Every house needs a thumbnail picture. -- Petri Krohn 11:38, 6 October 2012 (EST)
And on this page, it's pretty nerdy and detailed. Thanks for nerding out here! I know the value of that. It's bound to be of at least some use, maybe lots. Interesting. --Caustic Logic 20:19, 6 October 2012 (EST)
Petri, when you sat two stories, do you mean in the European sense of in addition to ground floor? I think I just got an ID on a building here hit by more horizontal shelling and burned out inside... I think 640E here, the tallest looking one (looks tall enough to be three stories, as we'd say in the states, despite only one upper floor suggested by the two windows). See below, in a moment. --Caustic Logic 20:34, 6 October 2012 (EST)
And, like, 660W means what? 660 meters from clocktower/gate-arches/Qaws? --Caustic Logic 22:11, 6 October 2012 (EST)
And, is 760E the bright/white building with four 'fins' on the roof? If so, I'm starting to get the hang of it. --Caustic Logic 22:23, 6 October 2012 (EST)
Another Building IDd?
See ... one of these two videos of the horrors of Shilka shells in Taldou - Horizontal delivery, roofs intact, holes right through walls. Inside, they got right for the little kids and tear holes in their chins or throats.
It's the first one, very beginning, pans up and across two windows, little rise in the back... then we see its inside. I love where we can place and side by verifying the outside. If this is it, the Ali excursion video should show the same doorway this guy walks through(if I read their location right). Let's see... Yep. 2:45-ish, same faintly striped wall, same hanging wire, two little square knobs just right of the door frame. Check the jack-o-lantern effect of the "shelling" up on the second floor. Not sure what he says happened here. --Caustic Logic 21:06, 6 October 2012 (EST)
- Abu Suleiman contradicts himself: "All the residents fled because of the daily shelling attacks on the area. The Army is only 50 meters away, they would kill us if they knew we were here." Now, why would the army shell itself? -- Petri Krohn 22:50, 6 October 2012 (EST)
To add: it's what you have as 695 E, I think. Does that match the video? --Caustic Logic 23:02, 6 October 2012 (EST)
- I already added video 2 to 695E. Cannot figure out number 1. Where is main street? -- Petri Krohn 01:24, 7 October 2012 (EST)
- In the distance. Sorry, that was just a Shilka shells video (one by subtitles, one audible). It's over on Saad road, CE figured out, an Abdul Razaq home, apparently.--Caustic Logic 05:52, 7 October 2012 (EST)
This one starts at 0 and shows the first couple of meters west side quite well. This one must be around 530m and shows that part of east side in some detail. Both are recent. -- 23:52, 6 October 2012 (EST)
- Just south of arches, west side, inside and view from upper floor veranda onto opposing trees and looking down on the gate 
- Drum fortress must be on roof of National Hospital.
- A backyard that might be recognizable now (latter half) --Caustic Logic 21:32, 7 October 2012 (EST)
- at the "car wash" (meaning Qaws, pronounced like Qawaws by Google translate) - arches from the ground, right there.  2 views now. --Caustic Logic 22:08, 7 October 2012 (EST)
- This was first released by "Al Houla", then stabilized. Must get HQ originals.
- All these videos have a strange focus on the massacre area. Must somehow reflect rebel thinking. (Good for us though!) Unfounded accusations of constant shelling. If this is the area that is targeted, then no one is shelling their base area and not even the clock tower.
- Leaving out all the massacre murders, the picture that is emerging from all of this is that of ethnic cleansing – with the rebels driving out Alawites, Christians, non-Salafist Sunnis, and any "regime supporters". They did not come to Main Street to liberate it but to cleanse it. -- Petri Krohn 23:13, 7 October 2012 (EST)
Jalal's latest trip down main street - shows (the remains of) nearly every facade between the clock tower and three quarters down to the arches. That's one profoundly trashed street! Arches are half-gone, too. Going further south seems to be unsafe. Nov 29. --CE (talk) 06:04, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
- Apparently it was broadcasted in toto on Al Jazeera Arabic... --CE (talk) 22:30, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Ali's excursion video
I do not know in how many places this video is discussed, (couldn't find any of them now) so I will start afresh. I have analyzed the first section from 0:00 to 2:02. They start of from behind Building 570E and end up behind 690E. This back route avoids the security HQ. (I do not know if there really are any Assadist there!) Many buildings show battle damage on this east side. -- Petri Krohn 22:07, 6 October 2012 (EST)
- They will have been hit from all strategically significant sides, and then some. Talk, Ali, I think, is where it's covered. I mapped out main spots and journey there. So we have two reading, okay, not a total waste! We probably agree. The edit at 2:02, the long row sticking out east looms. Will they walk around it? Edit doesn'tlet us see. If we agree, 695E fronts this row, and it's the tall one I meant before, with the battle damage on its south side, the tallest white one dead center in the top map. This would make alley 705 where they are after the edit, go west, near the street and then turn south through the liberated utopia. I'll check back to see if I've got it yet.--Caustic Logic 22:30, 6 October 2012 (EST)
- I now got up to 2:50 in the video. Yes, they are walking west on alley 705E. The turn left and enter 710E through a hole cut into its wall. The hole makes me think that the problem with these buildings that is preventing the residents from returning is not the shelling by Assadists, but the rodent infestation. -- Petri Krohn 04:53, 7 October 2012 (EST)
- Sofa and sandbag nest in alley 720E...
- They walk right through 730E, which should be Ali's house, but they are not stopping there. The clip ends at 3:42 in the garden in front of 750E. -- Petri Krohn 05:01, 7 October 2012 (EST)
- They end up in 990E. Seems to be Ali's house. Points to a number of spots, three other children and mother killed there. I was able to identify three photos (+1 duplicate) of bodies. -- Petri Krohn 07:31, 7 October 2012 (EST)
Kaveh Kazemi photos from May 27th
We have overlooked one important source of information, photo archives. A search for Houla on Getty Images returns a collection of photos from Main street on May 27th.
- Good find. A lot of pictures from Thomson/Gomez visit on May 27. I reviewed our argument about the date of the rebel celebration according to the red sand. The Getty pics show it fresh and undisturbed, best here. If I re-read our exchange correctly, this confirms the thesis I had expressed, that the celebration video is not from the immediate massacre but from somewhere between the UN video of May 26 and the Thomson/UN video from May 30. And now we know it's from the morning of May 28 at the earliest. --CE (talk) 20:03, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
I am still trying to find out if this video is from before or after May 27th. Nothing conclusive yet.
- Battalion Arabad bin valid in the Hula clashing with Assad gangs – Battalion Arabad bin valid, Jun 26, 2012