Talk:Jneid Masacre

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Context

The SyrPer guy has reported about the military operation to "liberate" Al-Safira in quite some detail over the last week. Apparently there was an attempt to attack important military installations and the counter-operation was fierceful - he reports yesterday of 2300(!) dead fighters. That battle is likely what's reported below with the "23 tanks and 3000 troops" - certainly not on a killing spree against some civilians. That seems to have ended as a success some days ago and now the fight is going on at an airport Al-Nairab. And from the Al-Safira area come more reports from what went on in the "rebel"-controlled areas. From yesterday this report with victim lists of massacres from several neighborhoods, among them your "Al-Junied" with 23 dead:

Following the pleasing news of advancement by the Syrian Arab Army, where they gained access to the areas that were under the control of the Erdogan, US and NATO backed Terrorists of so-called "fsa", including the neighbourhoods and districts of "Al-Safira, Khnassar, Tal 'Aran and Al-Humeira" in Aleppo, came the shattering news of the discovery of further massacres committed by the Terrorists, of the so-called 'fsa", with over 100 civilians including Women, Children and elderly found butchered so far.

--CE (talk) 15:00, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Wow, that's a helpful report. Thanks! Will incorporate soon. I was wondering about the locale-giving surrounding areas should help. Al-Nairab is next to the main airport, SE of town. I was wondering about this military air base a ways east of there. Description says "Alternative names: "Dayr Ha Fir", "Kweyres", "Al Kwairis" - airbase/military airport. Rasin el Aboud Airbase is a military fighter base, which houses the 3rd FTS (L-39ZA Albatros, MBB-233 Flamingo) The aircrafts are normally used merely for training, but during the Syrian civil war the Aero L-39 were frequently used for air-to-ground attacks." I believe fighting around there has been reported too. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:42, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

For reference, the Real Syria Updates page cites four Houla-style family massacres, bodies apparently left behind for the army to find on conquest: "Martyrs of " Khanasser" – 26 cited so far" "Martyrs of 'Em 'Aamoud" – 35 cited so far" "Martyrs of " Al-Junied" - 23 cited so far" and "Martyrs of " Humeira ... approximately 20 members of the "Al-Shafi family, including women that were butchered with knives in the nearby village of Humeira then their bodies burned." Given numbers add up to 104, at least/approximately. For "Al-Juneid," 13 names are given: 1 - Abdulkarim al-Hajj Hassan 2 – Brother - Rajab al-Hajj Hassan 3 – Abdulkarim's Two daughters 4 - Ibn Rajab al-Hasan al-Hajj Hassan 5 – Abdul Hassan Al-Jalous 6 - Fadi Hussein Joum'a Hajj Hassan 7 - Ahmed Ibn Abu Shehu 8 - Ahmed Mahmoud Al-Khalef 9 - Yahya Mahmoud Al-Khalef 10 – Dr. Hassan Mahmoud Al-Khalef 11- Dr. Al-Khalef's 4 young grandchildren 12 –As'aad Al Asmail Agha 13 - Mahmoud Al-Khalef

Re: the 2,300 rebel fighters killedclaim.Clearly, it won't be supported by opposition sources, and likely isn't true. SOHR has a total of 110 killed nationwide on the 15th (preliminary, no final ??) 14th, prelim: 160 +. Feb. 13, Feb. 12, both 200+, both prelim. Few final numbers these days. The 11th has a final, app. 150. These death tolls are above average, and include rebel fighters killed in Reef Aleppo in decent numbers (14 on the 12th, etc.) Also some supports for the related massacres in the area. --Caustic Logic (talk) 05:22, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

SOHR Reports on Fighting

Here are at least a few entries from the Facebook page. No direct links, but text. Went back to the 12th only. --Caustic Logic (talk) 06:27, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

  • Feb. 12: Aleppo province: Rebel fighters from several islamist factions have fully taken over the al-Jarrah military airport, which lies on the Raqqah-Aleppo highway, after violent clashes that started Monday morning. The clashes have resulted in the death of 5 rebels, the injury of several others, and the injury and capture of approximately 40 regime forces. The rebels have taken over heavy machine-guns and ammunition. Footage also show that they are in control of an area with several fighter jets. Violent clashes are taking place by the western gate of the town of Tel'aran, Reef al-Safira, between regime and rebel forces, there is airforce presence over the area.
This is east of Kweyres: here on Wikimapia, flanking Deir Hafir. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:02, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Feb. 12: Aleppo province: Rebel fighters have taken over large parts of the 80th regiment, which is responsible for protecting the Aleppo international airport (civilian) and the Neyrab military airport. The clashes are still ongoing, tens of regular forces have been killed, several fighters were killed and injured. An activist with the SOHR saw firsthand tens of bodies of regular soldiers in the ground of the regiment. The rest of the regular forces have barricaded themselves by the area of the regiment close to the Neyrab airport. Rebels from various factions took over the al-Manara checkpoint by the Aleppo international airport.
  • Feb. 12: Aleppo province: The al-Jarrah military airport was bombarded by the Syrian airforce, this comes after rebel fighters, from several factions, took over the airport this morning. The rebels have taken control of tens of military jets, most of them MiGs 17 and some Sukhoi L39, this is considered the first instance of rebels acquiring fighter jets. In Aleppo city the Neyrab, Qadi Askar and Dahr Awad neighbourhoods were bombarded by the airforce.
  • Feb. 13: Aleppo province: Violent clashes are taking place between rebel fighters (Jabhat al-Nusra, Tawhid brigade, al-Muhajireen battalion and others) and regime forces by the 80th regiment, which rebels took over fully last night. 1 rebel and 3 soldiers were killed so far by the clashes in the village of Dweirina. Parts of the Jeb al-Safa village, by the town of al-Safira, is under airforce bombardment. Violent clashes are taking place by the al-Neyrab military airport. Several people were injured by the bombardment on the Karm al-Trab neighbourhood of Aleppo.
Weapons seized by the rebels after taking the 80th regiment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8lE79rcddU&feature=youtu.be

  • Feb. 14: Aleppo province: Violent clashes took places between rebel fighters and regular forces earlier this morning in the neighbourhoods of al-Jadida, al-Sab' Bahrat, and Halab al-Qadima. Reports indicate that rebel fighters took hold of one of the buildings that regular forces are centralized in, in the al-Sab' Bahrat neighbourhood, reports refer to human losses from regular soldiers. 1 man died of wounds he received by bombardment on the al-Safira town. 1 rebel was killed by clashes in Reef al-Safira town. A rebel fighter was killed and several were wounded by aerial bombardment on the perimeter of the Mangh military airport that rebel fighters from several factions have been trying to take hold of for months. A rebel fighter was killed by clashes with regular forces in the Rasm al-A'boud area.
  • Feb. 14: 21 civilians, including a woman and child, were killed days earlier by gunfire and bombardment on the Oum A'moud village of Reef al-Safira town that is witnessing clashes between rebel fighters and regular forces, the 21 names were only documented today. A man died of wounds he received by bombardment on the al-Safira town of Reef Aleppo. A man was killed by bombardment on the al-Safira town. 2 rebel fighters, including a rebel commander, were killed by clashes with regular forces in Aleppo city. 4 rebel fighters were killed during clashes in the perimeter of the Mangh military airport. A rebel fighter from Aleppo city was killed by clashes in Reef al-Safira town earlier.
  • Feb. 15: Aleppo province: Rebels from the al-Nusra Front and the al-Muhajireen battalion have taken over the Air-Defence base east of the Aleppo international airport and west of Hasel town after violent clashes when the base was retaken earlier by regular forces. Clashes between al-Nusra Front and a military motorcade continues in the town of Tel Aran, south of Tel Hassel. the clashes have been ongoing for 4 days in an attempt by al-Nusra to stop the reinforcements reach the Aleppo international airport, where there are clashes between rebels and regime forces, also clashes by the nearby al-Neyrab military airport, both sides are using rockets. 2 rebels were killed. Clashes also taking place by the Kweiris military airport, by the city of al-Bab, reports that 6 regular soldiers were killed. In Aleppo city 3 rebels were killed by a sniper in the Sheikh Sa'id neighbourhood.
  • Feb. 16: Aleppo province: The Karm al-Tarab neighbourhood was bombarded by regular forces with no reports of casualties yet. Violent clashes were renewed between regular forces and rebel fighters in the perimeter of the Kweiris military airport, along with reciprocal artillery and mortar bombardment. Confirmed reports refer to human losses from both sides. 2 women were shot by regular forces in the Khanaser town of Reef Aleppo. Intermittent clashes are still taking place between regular forces and rebel fighters in the perimeter of the Aleppo international airport and the al-Nirab military airport. Clashes took place in the al-Dweiraniya village.
  • Feb. 16: Aleppo province: Violent clashes took place between rebel and regime forces in the al-Sab' Bahrat neighbourhood and its surroundings of Aleppo city, along with mortar shells on the area. A rebel commander was killed by clashes with regime forces in the Tal Hasel area of REef Aleppo. The Tal A'ran town was bombarded by regular forces, reports of human losses.
  • Feb. 16: Aleppo province: Violent clashes took place in the Bab al-Faraj and Bab al-Nasr neighbourhoods of Aleppo, explosions were heard in the area, and there are reports of losses on both sides. Clashes also took place by the Aleppo International Airport, regime forces bombarded the outskirts of the airport, both sides lost members as a reuselt.

Reports

  • "Strategic Research and Communication Centre" Feb. 9: "Regime forces carry out scorched earth policy in Aleppo suburbs"
Dozens of civilians executed and burnt by regime forces in a village near the Aleppo suburb of Sfeera.
Regime forces, consisting of 23 military tanks and 3000 troops, committed a massacre that claimed the lives of more than 40 civilians, including women and children, in the village of Jneid in the eastern suburb of Aleppo, as they moved on to break the siege imposed by the rebels on a military factory in the Aleppo town of Sfeera. This is the second mass murder committed by the same forces following last Tuesday’s one in the village of Khanaser which claimed the lives of more than 21 people in a similar manner. [1]
  • Local Coordination Committees: "Syria Today 9-2-2013"
By the end of Sutarday, The Local Coordination Committess could document 169 martyres ,including 14children , 10 women and 2 martyres under torture : 60 in Aleppo most of them were field excuted in Jneid;
Aleppo: Al-Safira: 12 martyrs from Al-Khalaf family were field executed by regime forces in the village of Al-Junaid.
Implied 30+ total, no further details , no videos. [2]
  • Kuwait News, citing LCC: "Syrian forces commit terrible massacre in Aleppo"
The Local Coordination Committees in Syria (LCC) announced on Saturday dozens of Syrian people were killed in a terrible massacre committed by regime forces after they stormed the town of Jneid in Aleppo.

[3]

  • Syrian Observatory: Final death toll for Saturday 9/2/2013
Final death toll for Saturday 9/2/2013: Approximately 160 Syrians were killed. 'The dead include: 84 unarmed civilians, 42 rebel fighters, 3 defected soldiers, and not less than 29 regime forces.
In Aleppo Province 25 civilians were killed. ... 18, including 3 children, were killed when regime forces stormed the Jneid village of Reef al-Safeera city, in the past 3 days, according to activists from the area. [4]
  • "Institute of Middle Eastern, Islamic and Strategic Studies" - Sherifa Zuhur, Feb. 10:
Saturday death toll: 160 killed, including 84 unarmed civilians
...
Government forces committed a massacre in Jneid, killing 45 civilians, including women and children as they attempted to move to break the opposition’s siege on a military factory at al-Safeera, yesterday. Today, Syrian government soldiers traveling from Aleppo’s airport toward the same factory engaged in clashes with the opposition and suffered casualties; at least 4 regime soldiers were killed and 20 injured. [5]

Videos

LCC shares none. I haven't checked around myself yet. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:39, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

  • Subtitled video of the operation "liberating" that whole area, from SAA perspective, "Part I", here. Not gory enough to warrant the 18+ warning, Wagneresque music is more annoying than pics of corpses. --CE (talk) 01:41, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Interesting, thanks. Don't know why, but I watched the whole thing. The IEDs disguised as rocks were cool to see, failing upside down under the "competent" technicians who still refuse to "defect." The burned bodies could be upsetting. But nothing like the ones rebels reported in February, which I've still seen no video of. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:06, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

I still didn't look well enough for videos of the massacres to say "there doesn't seem to be any." Especially considering multi towns are involved, there could be. But they're not easy to find, anyway. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:06, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Location?

Jneid Massacre Area Map.png
The map at right was assembled from labels in Wikimapia, explained in the prior entries below. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:39, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

LCC gives Jneid and Junaid spellings, village implicitly in Aleppo. SOHR has Jneid, near Safeera. I'm looking for possible matches in Wikimapia around Al-Safira.

Judaydah, village - Janyu, village - Abu Jurayn, village - Al-Jumaymah - another Judaydah that's all I'm seeing among what's labeled in readable characters that's arguably a name fit. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:06, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

After putting the rest together, either Judaydah fits, so they're pinned in red on the map. The south one is more likely from general area (hard to reach though except by round-about roads), all being near the named base the killers were headed towards. Why there are two is unclear. There seem to be a few duplicate labels in this area. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:12, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Real Syria Updates gives surrounding locales for the four massacre towns including Jneid: "the neighbourhoods and districts of "Al-Safira, Khnassar, Tal 'Aran and Al-Humeira" in Aleppo." There is on Wikimapia a Kafr Hamra and an Ard Al-Hamra district that could be "Al-Humeira." The latter, northeast of the city, the former is in the northwest, just NW of Al-Layramoun. Neither is down by the airport or Safira, suggesting this is a wide-ranging phenomenon. Tal-Aran is just north of Safira. Khnassar, no matches found just yet. --Caustic Logic (talk) 00:18, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Rather, Tell 'Arn is just north of Safira, possibly the same meant, but a good sized town, not a village. Then, an Aran (in Cyrillic letters) is a ways away. And a Humayrah (hamlet) is just southeast of there. This is all in the same area, so maybe Khnassar is too. Ooh! Khanaser, A bit south. Jneid itself might emerge soon at this rate. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:18, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
And finally, to round the victim locales, "Em 'Aamoud" = "Umm 'Amud"
  • "Martyrs of " Khanasser" – 26 cited so far"
  • "Martyrs of 'Em 'Aamoud" – 35 cited so far"
  • "Martyrs of " Al-Junied" - 23 cited so far"
  • "Martyrs of " Humeira ... approximately 20..."

Related Massacres

Khanasser

The killings in Khanaser, etc. have various supports I'll start collecting here. "Strategic Research and Communication Centre" - as noted already - cite a Feb. 5 event "in the village of Khanaser which claimed the lives of more than 21 people in a similar manner." RSU has 26+ dead there. Names given:

1 - Talal Ali Hussein

3 - Ahmad Hamidi Hussein 4 - Ibrahim Hussein 5 - Fatima Mousa Ali and her entire family 6 – Child - Nayef Al-Naev - 12 years old 7 – Child – Aya Al-Naef – 7 years old 8 – Child - Aziza Naev - 13 years 9 – Children - Noor Ali - 5 years old, And 4 young girls from the same family 14 - Hassan Ali - 45 years 15 – Child - Hatem Ali - 5 years 16 - Naif Al-Ali - 30 years old with his Wife and 2 young daughters 17 – Naif's Wife - Hala Al-Ali - 25 years 18 +19- Naif's Two young daughters

Humeira

RSU: "The Execution of approximately 20 members of the "Al-Shafi family, including women that were butchered with knives in the nearby village of Humeira then their bodies burned." No names given.

Umm 'Amooud

SOHR reported on the 14th:

21 civilians, including a woman and child, were killed days earlier by gunfire and bombardment on the Oum A'moud village of Reef al-Safira town that is witnessing clashes between rebel fighters and regular forces, the 21 names were only documented today.

RSU (Feb. 15) cites 35 killed at least in 'Em 'Aamoud. Names given:

1 -Irfan Moosa - 38

2 - Nasser Al-Qurfan - 45 3 - Mary Moosa - 75 4 - Hussein Ben Ali Moosa - 50 and his wife 5 - Tamam Hussein - 80 years 6 - Hamoud Al Zaidan - 40 years 7 - Hussein Zaidan - 60 years 8 - Khalil Mohammad bin Hassan - 25 years 9 - Recep Moosa - 40 years 10 - Ali Rajab - Al Mousa 10 years 11 - Abdullah Hamid - 50 years old and Two of his Children 12 - Hassan Al-Mrei - 50 years 13 - Said Al - Mrei - 40 years 14 - Nasser Al-Mrei - 45 years 15 - Hussein Ibrahim Moosa 60 years 16 - Yassin Gaseous - 50 years 17 - Younis Al Jassim Hassan - 60 years 18 - Abdullah Younis Hassan - 35 years 19 - Ibrahim Jassim Hassan - 50 years 20 - Hassan Mohammad - 55 years and his wife Ghbasheh 21 - Abu Zeid Al Alawi - 55 years, And his entire family of 10 people

Al-Malikiyah: Possibly Related

On March 1, SOHR reported the following:

SOHR urges the ICRC to head to al-Malkiya village
Reports have reached the SOHR indicating that tens of civilians were killed when regime forces stormed the village of al-Malkiya, as well as the other villages surrounding the city of al-Sfeira, Aleppo province. The reports that have been coming in for the past ten days differ, there were claims that 50 civilians, 70 civilians and 100 civilians were killed in the village of al-Malkiya alone. SOHR activists have so far been unable to reach the village to conduct interviews with survivors, take videos, or to investigate and take pictures of the houses were the reported murders took place. We have not been able to reach because of the heavy regular forces presence in the area.

An Al-Malikiyah (SOHR missed a syllable?) is here on Wikimapia. 6.5 KM due west of the edge of Al-Safirah, 5 km SW of Tel-Hasl. Four days earlier, SOHR reported:

The town of Tel Hassel, near al-Sfeira, witnessed the arrival of al-Nusra Front reinforcements, who came in several vehicles, with the aim to break the supply lines of the regime forces fighting to take over the area and create a military post. This area has witnessed intense clashes for weeks between al-Nusra Front, the Mujahideen Shura council, as well as other factions, and regime forces trying to secure the area.

So who, in this context, would give "the regime" another pointless rural massacre of people in their homes? The "regime's" forces themselves? They're the ones painted as controlling the area and keeping out SOHR's activists, or so the activists are apparently telling SOHR. --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:32, 2 March 2013 (UTC) Clearly related to the above, a newer yet SOHR report picked up by Reuters and even Yahoo news (saw it while checking e-mails): [Assad forces take Aleppo village, reopening supply line Assad forces take Aleppo village, reopening supply line]

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces seized a village southeast of the city of Aleppo on Friday, reopening a supply line to the country's biggest city where they have been battling rebels for eight months, a monitoring group said.
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said the capture of Tel Shghaib marked the last step to creating a land supply route north into Aleppo from Hama province, crucial for Assad's forces who have lost control of part of the main north-south highway.
Rebels say they hold most of the city itself and nearly all the rural hinterland. But they have been unable to achieve a decisive victory and complain ...

Tel Shegheb is here on Wikimapia, just on the other side of this massacre town. One wonders than if the SAA is really on the win around there, if they are responsible for the deaths of these 50-100 "civilians," not specified yet as containing any women or children. (If there even just a few, they're always mentioned and as many victims as possible are described as non-combatant families, even if the clear majority of dead were fighters, as at Haswiyeh.) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:53, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

90 dead, 35 captured according to SyrPer, all fighters, 40+% of those foreigners. Corroborates the stuff about the supply line, which is of course part of the international highway connecting Damascus with Aleppo and core piece of infrastructure. --CE (talk) 22:15, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
That must be a lie. SOHR has for a while distinguished between civilians and fighting civilians (militants), and their local activists said it was civilians in houses. That was sarcasm, but actually as we know SyPer is not reliable... but I suspect they're about right on this point. --Caustic Logic (talk) 05:51, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

References

  1. Syrian Revolution Daily Round-up: Sat. 9-Feb-13: Regime forces carry out scorched earth policy in Aleppo suburbs Strategic Research and Communication Centre. Feb. 9, 2013
  2. Syria Today 9-2-2013 Local Coordination Committees of Syria. Feb. 9, 2013
  3. Syrian forces commit terrible massacre in Aleppo - LCC KUNA, Kuwait, Feb. 9, 2013
  4. Final death toll for Saturday 9/2/2013: Approximately 160 Syrians were killed Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, Facebook. Posted February 10 at 1:56am
  5. Syria Update, February 10, 2013 By Sherifa Zuhur, Institute of Middle Eastern, Islamic and Strategic Studies, Feb. 10, 2013