Talk:Iran protests

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Role of CIA?

A comment by Jon Hellevig on my Facebook page:

That's not how it works. As you told yourself people entertain a range of conflicting grievances, often they cannot even pinpoint what's their specific beef with life. And it is here that the CIA steps in, to coordinate the different grievances and channel them in one common riot, or when they are successful, uprising. They give money, advice and resources to the promising protest leaders their headhunters have identified. That's what they did in Yugoslavia, Georgia, Tunis, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, and countless other countries, indeed in Iran 1953, and that's what they are doing in Iran again

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 12:45, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

1953 such role was admitted, and selected documents published. In 1978, there was some foreign role (like early 'color revolution' type ) and a more sinister one was alleged by the 'regime' against the 'rebels' as a tactics to defend against it. That was the time of USA using Afghanistan mojaheds (AQ) against USSR, and Islamism was not viewed as a threat. 1978 turned badly in both places in the long run, and here, even quicker. --Resup (talk) 06:06, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Role of people ?

I have no idea. Iran before Islamic revolution was very different (at least geopoliticaly; people do not really change). So there was a change, and a harsh one. Or maybe it was harsh to begin with, but now under new leadership. If things are really harsh, people stay very low. A large demonstration in USSR may be 7 people, or that sort of number. Because consequences are not just a suspended email account, and not only for themselves; and that created fear. Very few anywhere will proceed, even if many feel the same. Those Soviet demonstrations were both backed by the West and genuine. This is a very subtle line. (Human rights were invented by Andrey Sakharov. He was supported, but he was very genuine. It always was a little bit about actual humans, and a little bit about changing society--that is what he actually proposed, fix communism using human rights. Subsequently, it became industry. You can kill with anything if you want, including with human rights. Ebadi talks about all this in her earlier quotes. I do not know much about her. There are some obvious things, but what it is really, I do not know). --Resup (talk) 14:09, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Presently, the government is said (mainpage) to accuse protesters of 'sedition'. It is not totally clear what 'sedition' is or implies, but there is a line placing protest against government as going against Sharia (as this is how it is run overall, with religious authority on top). In such sense 'sedition' may be a very serious charge, apostasy has ultimate punishment under Sharia. (There are also written laws of the state, which are not exactly the same; demonstrations are allowed in letter; reality may be more complicated. E.g. in Russia, there is a very democratic constitution, but there are also by-laws under public safety which may be used selectively. --Resup (talk) 06:39, 7 January 2018 (UTC)