Talk:Crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17/Dutch preliminary report

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This is a talk page for discussing Crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17/Dutch preliminary report. For sources, claims and narratives see the main page. (To see what is hot, see recent changes)

Investigation Team

Based on preliminary report, page 8: Dutch Safety Board Investigation team also includes representatives and technical advisers from

  • Malaysia (state of operator, registry)
  • Ukraine (state of occurrence)
  • Russia (provided info on request)
  • UK (state of design and manufacture of engines)
  • USA (state of design and manufacture of aircraft)
  • Australia (provided information on request)
--Resup (talk) 19:05, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

RT (Russia Today): The Dutch government has refused to reveal details of a secret pact between members of the Joint Investigation Team examining the downed Flight MH17. If the participants, including Ukraine, don’t want information to be released, it will be kept secret.

The respected Dutch publication Elsevier made a request (linked) to the Dutch Ministry of Security and Justice under the Freedom of Information Act to disclose the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) agreement, along with 16 other documents. The JIT consists of four countries - the Netherlands, Belgium, Australia and Ukraine - who are carrying out an investigation into the MH17 disaster, but not Malaysia. Malaysian Airlines, who operated the flight, has been criticized for flying through a war zone.--Resup (talk) 18:01, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Images

I have extracted the images from the PDF file using pdfimages in Linux. The graphics are layered from multiple .jpg images, so I will have to take a screenshot. Good thing though to have also the originals. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 10:42, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

New Info

P17 Wind info (N –NE ;SW at 23000 feet)

P18 clouds photo, lots of clouds to the SE.

P. 25 photo: it was above the cockpit floor

P 15, P 29 radio transmission 13:19:56-13:19:59 UTC MH17: ROMEO NOVEMBER DELTA, MALASYAN 17

Both flight recordings ended at 13:20:03 UTC

(anything else)? .--Resup (talk) 11:08, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

They do not seems to specify from what direction these "high-energy objects" penetrating the fuselage were coming from. Any BUK hypothesis would need to decide on a single point of origin for all damage. An air-to-air attack would come from multiple directions; both autocannon and missiles would have to be used at the same time. Previous experience has shown that a R60 missile alone will not bring down a Boeing airliner. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 12:04, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

SU-25 Conspiracy Theory Detailed

From blackbird69 on pprune. A fairly complete summary of the main SU-25 conspiracy theory.

In secrecy, the Ukraine government created an evil plan to escalate the war against the rebels in the east. In their plans they decide to provoke the mighty countries of The Netherlands and Malaysia to intervene with the war by shooting down a Malaysian civil airliner, for 2/3 filled with dutch citizens, in the hope that these countries will retaliate on the rebels with deadly force. For this purpose they redesign a SU-25 to serve an intercepter roll, pimp up the 30 mm guns, install new more powerfull engines, give it near vertical climb capabilities, make it stealthy, and develop the capability to fire the guns at large yaw angles and large angles of attack.

To train their combat pilots on this new incredible machine, they hijack a malaysian Airlines B777 bound for Peking and land it on a secret Ukraine airfield, unknown for Western countries and Russia, where they dispose of the crew and passengers. With practice shooting on this plane, the Ukraine pilots learn how to shoot continously on the same area on the cockpit while rolling inverted from left side of the plane to the right side. They also learn how to disable the power supply to the FDR/CVR with their first shot and burn the outer skin of the aircraft with their engine exhaust.

Then, in the afternoon of the 17th, they can finally carry out their mission. Next to the shooting down of the airliner by this SU-25+, special forces need to trick Russian, NATO, journalists and NGO's in that this was done by a SAM missile. A few days earlier, special forces stole a SA-11 battery in Kursk by imposing as Russian soldiers. They even convince the rebels that they are there to help and cross the border to Ukraine. Then, at hour H, they launch a dummy missile in a small village, knowing that there are seen by several civilians. The dummy missile triggers US early launch warning systems. They create fake telephone calls to rebel leaders, to make the conspiracy complete. The Special Ukraine forces parade the SA-11 back to Russia, ensuring that they are caught on camera several times before crossing the border where they abandon the SA-11 battery and head back to Kiev. Everything went according to plan, only the Military force estimation of The Netherlands and Malaysia appeared to be grossly incorrect.

Unfortunately they also underestimated the military capabilities of Mother Russia's civil radar/ATC system, that just after the succesfull attack, is able to break the stealth protection of the aircraft and is even able to identify it as a SU-25!

--Charles Wood (talk) 01:40, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

October 2014