Talk:Crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17/Cyber Berkut leak
- This is a talk page for discussing Crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17/Cyber Berkut leak. For sources, claims and narratives see the main page. (To see what is hot, see recent changes)
The Cyber Berkut did provide the Paet-Ashton call that was legit, but this I'm far more skeptical of. Not to be overly flippant, but a first blush is just a first blush ... it seems a bit heavy on the clowning around like idiots - smacks of parody, which is a creative work, which this isn't supposed to be. "have you forgotten? We are sooper seekrit on Facebook 'k! more false-flag chat later ttul" And they complain the video was uploaded early ... is that a reference to one of those Youtube issues Russians often don't get? Did this pan out or not? Did these perps also just not get it then? Possible. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:06, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
And what is this? "They reported that he couldn't hold there for long, as if it was high. Made one direct. Failed. Had to make air." I'm not sure I understand any of this, really. But that almost sounds like the insiders are saying there was a failed "direct" missile attack, followed by a last-minute attack from the air. As one inclined to think a successful missilie launch broght the plane down, these do not sound to me like informed insiders but fake personae employing current "CT" talking points on top of their clowning. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:06, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
- I think Dimity Orlov got it right the first time: If the Ukrainians tried to hit it with a Buk they would miss! -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:35, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
If this is to be believed, 'land' is surface-to air missile (=Buk), 'direct' is machine gun/automatic gun, and air = air -to air (missile). (Curiously, 'land' mentioned but not further discussed). But Facebook posts are easy to verify or falsify, and Berkut no longer having this material suggests that this Facebook 'intercept' is withdrawn. (Still something along those lines, perhaps not exactly as presented, still could have happened; short on some proofs, a info-warfare demo version/visualization was developed. --Resup (talk) 23:56, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
Translation and interpretation
It seems clear to me that Oliynyk and Bereza are discussing the shoot down of MH17 by an Ukrainian plane after the Buk failed to hit it. What exactly was meant is another issue. I will try to interpret. Here is the original in Russian (Ukrainians all speak Russian in private) with translation as provided by Voice of Sevastopol.
Svyatoslav Oliynyk 21:22
- Forget it. What’s there? And how?
Yury Bereza 21:23
- землей – прямым – воздухом
- land - direct - air
Svyatoslav Oliynyk 21:24
- А воздухом какого хера???
- What the fucking air???
Yury Bereza 21:26
- Передали, что не смог долго удерживаться там, типа высоко. Сделал один прямым. Не проканало. Тогда пришлось воздухом.
- They reported that he couldn't hold there for long, as if it was high. Made one direct. Failed. Had to make air.
Svyatoslav Oliynyk 21:27
- А почему сначала харьковских подняли?
- Why have they risen Kharkiv ones first?
Yury Bereza 21:30
- Они сказали, что сначала команда пришла из Киева на харьковский пульт, а когда он начал разворачиваться, тогда уже остальных подключили.
- They said that the command came from Kiev firstly to the Kharkiv desk, and as it began to turn, then the others were connected.
- surface-to-air missile – direct autocannon fire – air-to-air missile
- What fucking "air"?
- They reported that the pilot couldn't hold altitude for long, as MH17 was flying high. He made one direct pass with autocannon. Failed to bring down plane. Had to use air-to-air missile.
- Why did they not first use fighter planes taking off from Kharkov?
- They said that initially the detachment from Kiev came under the control of Kharkov, and as they began to be lined up, then the others engaged.
If this interpretation is correct then it would mean the plane was a Su-25 with altitude problems. I still do not understand why he would use the air-to-air missiles only after using autocannon. Forensic analysis would reveal what weapons where used and in what order. This could give credibility to the leak, if these statements are proven correct. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 10:25, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
One more translation
One more translation via Elena on Facebook
Svyatoslav Oliynyk and Yuriy Bereza
What happened to the archive? Password does not work. Tell me in short - what is it, the result?
Password is usual, check you Caps Lock and language settings
Okay, who cares ....[So] What [happened]? And how?
ground - direct - air
WTF the air for .... ???
It was reported that it could not be staying there for a long time on such a height. One direct shot was made, did not work, then used the air
Why Kharkov's [anti-aircraft units or aircraft units, unclear ] were initially raised?
They said that the first command came to the Kharkiv control centre and when it [the Boeing] stated to turn others became involved.
I see, well then tell me more later. Are you not going to be late ?
Yes, I will soon be at my place, I just finished [press conference ] with journalists.
Oleynik - Geletay (Valery Geletay - the Ukrainian Defense Minister at that time):
Valery Geletay 07/12/2014 23:01 This is my profile. Do not ask anymore questions using a phone or Skype! And here - just use the agreed phrases . Is it clear? Svyatoslav Oliynyk 07/12/2014 23:03 I got it. Although I do not quite share your concern about the phone [conversations]. Everything is already agreed upon. Valery Geletay We have already made a decision on air controllers, everything is agreed with your boss [Kolomoisky]. He said that you are responsible for the control. Tomorrow I'll send you my man, and you will have to report to me trough the day every day on the progress of all planned preparation which are your responsibility. Svyatoslav Oliynyk Valery, what man? Are you afraid that I run away and leave the family? Valery Geletay You have a short memory. Have you forgotten the instructions you were given? That man will guarantee protection and confidentiality of your reports to me, he will arrive to you tomorrow. Svyatoslav Oliynyk Ok. I'm waiting! Valery Geletay 07/14/2014 20:43 I remind you about what your boss promises - I have not received the coverage scenarios from you! Tomorrow morning, when you send me the report, send also the scripts and video that you've made. Svyatoslav Oliynyk 07/14/2014 20:47 Valery, the boss gave that job to the head of the [TV] channel a week ago! The head of the TV channel, reptile, lost all his conscious, he is late! But they've all be finished today. [They ] sketched more than 10 scenarios for the different ways the events may unfold for the first two days. Now they are [working] on the following three days. I will send you everything in the morning. Valery Geletay And the video too, do not forget - Peter Alekseevich [Poroshenko] was asking about it. Svyatoslav Oliynyk I understood. All done. Until next time. Valery Geletay 07.16.2014 8:46 Further communication only through our channel. A man will arrive, I need him . And ask your boss [Kolomoisky] why I can never get trough to him [on that channel] and then he calls himself and talks openly about everything. Svyatoslav Oliynyk 07.16.2014 8:48 OK! No problem. Svyatoslav Oliynyk I will tell the boss but his phone is encrypted , no one can tap it. He will keep calling anyway! Valery Geletay Oh yes, his phone has encryption but he is always calling my phone that does not have the encryption. Remind him about the safe channel, at least until the end of the operation. Svyatoslav Oliynyk Yes of course. I'll tell him tonight.
Correspondence Oleynik - Gritsenko: (Anatoly Gritsenko - Colonel, deputy of the faction "Baptkivschina i Ukrainian parliament) Anatoliy Gritsenko 19.07.2014 09:15
Slava, WTF? What have you done bi**hes? How could you download the video before the operation was conducted ??? !!! Do you understand that Russians sent the video to be analysed and asked Youtube about the date it was uploaded?
And your fools that were in control in Kharkov? Have you lost your mind? [ Ukrainian slang that I do not understand]...Are you completely gone mad in you Dnepropetrovsk?? Petro [ Poroshenko] will tear you to pieces !!!! I myself will tear you to pieces !!! And pick your phone up when we are calling you!!!
Anatoly Stepanovich, I'll call you now! I out of the office and left the phone the talking on the Internet with a tablet [ Ipad...]. I will call you straight away, two minutes.