Talk:Assault on Kobane
No talk page at all? That doesn't seem right. Now that Newsweek has written about it I suppose Kobane is the logical place for US air strikes, if they happen. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:40, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Kobaine, aka Ain Al Arab, is in Syria, near the border of Turkey. It is inhabited by Kurds, Arabs, Turkmen, and Armenians, and since July 2012 is controlled by the Kurds. As such it is a part of Kurdistan story, potentially involving host countries Syria, Iraq, Turkey, and Iran. E.g. Kurdish Peshmerga forces recently clashed with Iranian forces near a Kurdish Iranian city Sardasht, located on the border of Iran and the Iraqi Kurdistan Region. We may want to have some pages for Kurdistan as a whole (and this starts to get complicated, with several intersecting players involved, and no own state for the Kurds in existence. )
It appears that Turkey recently warmed up towards a Kurdish state in Northern Iraq, but still fearful of greater Kurdish autonomy spilling over to its own lands --Resup (talk) 11:57, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
- If you haven't read it already, take a look at my attempt at describing the micro situation in a very similar chain of events almost two years ago. In the broader picture, the main reason why the Iraqi Kurds get help and the Syrian and Turkish Kurds have problems doing so is ... the latter's leading political forces are "commies" in the eyes of the "West". --CE (talk) 13:17, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
- Coming back to this, stuff I've read since then (mostly thanks to you) - and my own semi-informed thoughts - suggests Kurds on both sides the Syria border are to be screwed and displaced, traumatized and pushed east, where the West wants to help make the fragmentation of Iraq permanent as the pipeline to Europe and maybe start on boosting Iranian Kurdistan. And of course the weapon Turkey is using on that project is the poison spewiing from the Gulf and other Wahabbi zones, the disposable Islamo-nihilist meat puppets populating Daesh and the like... What do you think of that reading? --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:09, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
- It is really difficult to say what will happen next. The recent end of Southstream and formation of a Russia-Turkey strategic alliance is a true game changer. On the surface, Turkey is a huge winner in this. There will be a price that is not visible that Putin demanded. I like to think that this is giving up the idea to get rid of Assad and now becoming serious about trying to get peace to Syria, which includes stopping to support ISIS. And that is very much in Turkey's interest at this point, because it is close to the point where the Turkish Kurds seriously put up arms again, and that's something nobody (except the Empire) can want. Hopefully Putin managed to help Erdogan realize how much he was played. But I wouldn't bet on it. Maybe the Sultan thinks he can play the Czar... --CE (talk) 13:53, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
Report: Up to 700 "trapped"
Staffan de Mistura, the UN special envoy for Syria said 500-700 elderly people and other civilians were still trapped in the town, while 10,000 to 13,000 others were stuck close to the border. --Resup (talk) 18:51, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
NATO has finally bombed "ISIS" in the Kobane suburbs. (video) Military Maps puts the spot on the main road to the south. NATO logic: $1 billion bomber drops a $100,000 bomb on a
$5 tent a $10 million M1A1 tank they paid for. Best of all: the B1 bomber makes a 10,000 miler return trip to hit a spot that is 1 mile from the NATO border. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 13:13, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Under-Secretary-General Valerie Amos - Statement on Kobane/Ayn al-Arab "If we don't act now, this will be another tragedy for the Syrian people and a stain on the conscience of humanity."
ISIS Operations in and from Turkey
Late September: video footage and a photo from a Turkish news crew supposedly show a small group of ISIS guys at an un-guarded crossing to Syria (a small underpass of the border railroad), which A Bellingcat investigation geo-locates an apparent match on October 1, several km west of Kobane. There were men a ways in on a Syrian hilltop, maybe just signaling. That investigator thought the clothing and location suggested, but didn't prove, they were ISIS/Daesh fighters moving freely at a hole in the Turkish border. It was noted this doesn't prove Turkish government complicity. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:21, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Nov. 29 Suicide Bombings: Kurds blame Turkey as Isis suicide bombers attack Kobani, Reuters via Irish Times - The Atlantic (the Wire) reported it - Yahoo News re-post of that got hundreds of comments, mostly urging Turkey's expulsion from NATO, some with further measures proposed. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:21, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
- Same in SPIEGEL which reports this as fact, article written yesterday before Ankara denied the Undeniable (see more evidence I just added). Takes only a couple of comments until someone demands to kick Turkey out of NATO. First step would be to remove the German PATRIOTs, though, which were moved there after ... what was it, the Reyhanli bombings? In any case something that turned out to have been done without the involvement of yesteryear's new Hitler Assad. We'll see. I doubt there will be consequences for Erdogan and his smirking little sidekick, but they are really stretching it now. --CE (talk) 13:07, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
- Oh, btw, there has been a surprisingly direct (English language) report by Deutsche Welle about ISIS supply lines from Turkey. Tony Cartalucci has some crucial comments on the context of the short film (which is embedded over there).
Minefield Refugee Camps
On December 2, Human Rights Watch released a report about Kobane (here spelled Kobani) refugees who had been forced to camp in Turkish-run minefields.
Much of this information has surely been reported previously, and the bulk of the flight seems to date back to September. As of reporting, they report around 2,000 people remained camped in five different areas of what HRW's graphics show as an unavoidable band of minefields across the entire border area here except the actual crossing zone, with the way in open (if across the raliroad tracks) and the far side fenced off. A newly-built parking lot for refugee cars sits nearby, half-empty. They're not allowed to bring their cars or livestock, and the refugees largely refuse to leave them behind. So they stay. Or so this reads. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:42, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
At least nine serious injuries and three deaths directly from triggered landmines had been reported tp HRW as of reporting. If that's even close to true, it sounds almost livable. Livestock were also killed/injured and vehicles damaged. On November 8, witnesses report, ISIS forces (in Syria?) fired mortars on "the largest civilian concentration in the Tel Shair corridor " (the eastern encampment), killing three people, including a child, with at least one more mortar barrage after evidenced in satellite images prior to Nov. 13. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:39, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Of course, this is Turkey's minefield, laid decades ago officially to prevent smuggling. ISIS is able to get across it okay on a regular basis, apparently, as their recent direct attack through the Kobane crossing is taken as big news, apparently through the unavoidable fields is how they usually get there, if it's anywhere in this zone. It must not be too fierce - 2,000 people live there with perhaps only 3 killed by mines so far? (note: one set of victim, two young men, were somehow "decapitated" by the ... land .. mines. Sounds unusual. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:39, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
HRW called for the refugees to be relocated and also educated by Turkish authorities, who should then remove all their mines immediately. For background they note Turkey's signing of the "mine ban treaty," in line with which Ankara had started by 2009 a process to eventually clear all its supposedly outdated minefields. This process was paused in July, 2013 "because of developments in Syria," as HRW put it. Progress was frozen at what we see now (zero progress?) Also, the other states of the "mine ban treaty" have given Turkey until March 1, 2022, to clear its minefields. That was agreed in 2013 when they froze their progress. The original agreed time to have it all done was ... 2014. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:39, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Tass rebroadcasts Western reports on a topic of malahim , not commenting on it.
A rare Russian video report from Kobane (or nearby). Report is strongly critical of Turkey, blaming it for halting humanitarian help to Kurds in Kobane, not allowing refugees to Turkey and insufficient help to those already there; while helping ISIS, including ammunition (and as the report claims, even some tanks). Turkey actions are places in perspective as being anti-Sadat. An elderly Kurd refugee interviewed towards the end laments the civil was in Syria which destroyed their cities and left them with nothing. He mentioned that their complaints before the civil war were that they could not identify themselves as Kurds in their passport. (Report appears to try to convey some pro-Assad and critical of Turkey impression.) --Resup (talk) 14:03, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
It's a bit late to work ideally, but ... CE, you've become an expert on this subject. You should write up an article on it. Even just as "CE," you've got some presence so I think Global Research would run it. One angle that made me almost want to write it myself was the headline about how ISIS was now conquering places "on NATO's doorstep." I guess what they meant was they were taking over next to a door other than the one most of their members probably entered Syria through ... But I'd have to brush up on a lot, and I'm already pressed for time (aren't we all?) Up to me, nothing. Up to you, maybe collaborative, your call. Ideally it's mention Turkey's insane claim that no one crosses in through them, compared to the Reyhanli bombing and that border crossing dispute where (JaN?) threatened to do it again and got the crossing re-opened, stuff like that. Maybe that's too ambitious, but the idea's got some potential and I should mention it. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:15, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks. I'll think about that. There's certainly a lot to say about these denials, especially combined with the Ras Al-Ayn story two years ago. When everything happened directly through the border post and these gangs still called themselves FSA, long before anybody had heard of ISIS. Unfortunately I've seen that one of the main sources I used at the time, the German-Kurdish diekurden.de, has completely disappeared and the URL now goes to some advertising crap. --CE (talk) 10:18, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
June 25, 2015
Images, Fake and Real
George on Twitter - fake Turkish uniforms photo. It does not seem like reports of Turkish uniforms are based on this photo. The rest seem real: 12 wrapped victims from same family - more wrapped dead and it says "more than 100 martyrs." AJANSAMED has a baby with hacked-open gace. | dead | Chuck Pfarrer attack map
- Hey, I was off a day in the beginning thinking for some reason we had the 26th already, but you are off a month here. It's June! :oP We'll have to wait for better information, even the YPG statement says they don't know yet what really happened (so I didn't use it as reference (yet)).--CE (talk) 23:21, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
- It's been hot here, made me imagine a month passing that didn't. Too bad, a lot of cool things happened in that month. Good keep-up on this, thanks. I saw an unofficial death toll of 107, with "thousands" injured. But the Turks, of course clean. They must've appeared over someone else's border. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:29, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
A Pattern We've Seen?
Tal-Abyad was re-claimed, everyone knew that meant cutting off IS supply lines from NATO turf. So now they hit back at Kobane, last crossing they lost. Didn't we see just about this same thing, when Kobane was first hit after the Kurds had knocked out another major jihadist crossing? Might this mean they plan to re-take Kobane? Or would they even bother these days? They do at least plan to frighten people away, or start them in that direction. Classic terrorism there.--Caustic Logic (talk) 23:40, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
- Kobane border crossing has never been in jihadist hands, maybe you confuse that with Ras Al-Ayn (Serekaniye). This attack seems to be just some savages out for revenge, but I fully expect that they will intensively try to take Tal Abyad back, and the success of that will fully depend on the willingness of the "coalition" to continue to play the Kurds' air force. --CE (talk) 23:53, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
July 20, 2015
Re: the attack on aid collectors in Suruç (front page section) - the Turkish response will be interesting. I thinks odds are over 50-50 that they'll say the activists were gathering military aid for the terrorist Kurds, blew themselves up with one poorly-handled device, and then arrest the group's leaders. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:36, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
- Nah, they already said that it was a suicide bomber and that it looks like (at least inspired by) Daesh. No claim of responsibility so far, though. I guess this is a nightmare for the AKP big wigs, as it could increase the possibility that against all odds the three opposition parties will form a coalition against them (there's an interim government atm after the election in which the AKP remained strongest party but lost absolute majority). So they may refrain from their usual extravaganzas here. Erdogan called it an "attack against Turkey" (which means "an attack against me" in his mind). --CE (talk) 09:28, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
Media reports: 'The Turkish army shelling from tanks and artillery positions of IS militants in Syria . According to the channel "Haberturk" operation began after the bombing by islamists of a military post in Turkey, in the province of Kilis. Several areas along the border over the next five days are declared "special security zones" ' (TASS)--Resup (talk) 00:07, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
- They've also bombed with jets now. And what's even more remarkable: The U.S. is finally allowed to use Incirlik airbase to do their bombing. And that "agreement" includes ... wait for it ... the long fantasized "no-fly-zone" even if only "partial". Turks and Yanks will get to bomb ISIS, but Syrians aren't allowed. All according to Hürriyet. BBC isn't clued in on the no-fly-zone yet. Now that's an "interesting" outcome of this massacre. --CE (talk) 09:07, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
- no-fly zone 90 km from Mare to Jarablus, 40 - 50 km deep, they say. Mare is here, 20 km south of the border and 20 km north of ... Aleppo! This means the no-fly-zone would cover the whole ISIS supply line from Jarablus to directly north-east of Aleppo. And SAAF is not allowed to enter... this will be "fun". --CE (talk) 09:23, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
Reuters: Turkey said on Saturday that its fighter jets hit militant camps of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) in northern Iraq overnight, and Turkish ground forces struck the PKK and Islamic State fighters in northern Syria. RIA Novosti, attributing to Reuters: 'Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) said that the truce with Ankara "lost value" after the Turkish air force delivers an air strikes on positions of militants in northern Iraq, reports Reuters'. --Resup (talk)11:22, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
- There's a good article on Moon of Alabama on this. I made a comment there correcting b on some details of the microcosm, but on the absurdity of the big picture he's spot on (as usual). --CE (talk) 12:13, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
Some tidbits not ready fo front page: Al Jazeera "When areas in northern Syria are cleared of the (ISIL) threat, the safe zones will be formed naturally," Cavusoglu told a news conference." (note ISIL added - he just said "the threat.") "We have always defended safe zones and no-fly zones in Syria. People who have been displaced can be placed in those safe zones." (well, it'll be harder to blame massacres on Syrian air force bombing - they'll have to think of a new cover story).
SOHR reports "SOHR activists in several cities and towns in the northeast of Aleppo reported that IS imams mobilized and provoked people in the Friday sermon that Turkey does not support or defend Islam but it was bragging about that, and that all people thought that it supports “Islamic State” but this the day as it has joined to “crusader coalition” in order to kill “Islamic State” and shell the civilians “across Islamic State and fight IS soldiers”." --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:03, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
- Good old Martin Chulov has an interesting piece over at The Guardian. It at least seems like the omnipresent anonymous western officials are not amused about Turkey anymore. Money quote:
- In the wake of the raid that killed Abu Sayyaf, suspicions of an undeclared alliance have hardened. One senior western official familiar with the intelligence gathered at the slain leader’s compound said that direct dealings between Turkish officials and ranking Isis members was now “undeniable”.
- “There are hundreds of flash drives and documents that were seized there,” the official told the Observer. “They are being analysed at the moment, but the links are already so clear that they could end up having profound policy implications for the relationship between us and Ankara.”
TASS : google translated: According to the TV channel HaberTurk, attacks began on Tuesday evening and continued throughout the night. Bombed the Qandil mountain range, where the base of the PKK. The operation involved 15 F-16 fighters based in the province of Diyarbakir. Blows were inflicted on the six areas in Iraqi territory. According to incoming reports, the camp became targets of militants and command centers, were used special bombs capable of destroying fortified underground shelters. Among the objectives of aviation it was also the camp where he was co-founder and commander of the military units of the PKK Cemil Bayyk. Also: Kurds fired on a police station in Turkey.--Resup (talk) 12:19, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
Meyssan claims to have insider knowledge of a phone call between Erdogan and Obama on July 22 where Obama threatened to kick Turkey out of NATO if they wouldnt a) abandon the Turkstream deal with Russia and b) join the anti-ISIS coalition. Farfetched? Well, I think there must have been some serious pressure on Erdogan for him to open the bases for US use. And all in all it seems like the caption on the picture over there is true as well: Erdogan lost control and acts like a maniac, endangering indeed the very existence of Turkey. Maybe they gave him just enough rope to hang himself by his ego. Some other interesting stuff in the piece, including an alleged Russia-brokered deal between Syria, Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Naturally, as always with Meyssan, grain of salt n stuff. --CE (talk) 15:58, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
- Here's an article (translation from Al-Akhbar) with some details on the mentioned Russian behind-the-scenes diplomacy attempts. Apparently they really got the Saudis and Syrians to talk. Hope it's true. --CE (talk) 02:14, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
- There is little past record of Russian-Saudi friendship, in part due to events in Chechnya which eventually were foreign-sponsored. But coinciding with Iranian diplomacy advance, there were recent contacts having to do with weapon sales from Russia. Although Kerry and Lavrov did schedule a joint gig in Doha, and Syria is on agenda. --Resup (talk) 11:44, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
- I have recently seen that Turkish stream is suspended as there is no contract. Turkey wants a gas discount, which is not agreed apparently. Also, Russia wants four pipelines; Turkey somehow want just one --going to Turkey TASS quoting Haber Turk -South Stream suspended by Turkey. (But also, a new government is not formed in Turkey which is a contributing factor)
International Military Review - Turkey expands campaign in Syria and Iraq, southfront.org , Jul 29, 2015. Map of Turkey no-fly zone and IS supply routes- Kind of curious they are doing this video at all--unclear what are sources.--Resup (talk) 04:33, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
YPG statement on Turkish air forces flying over Kobani and Sarrin today Also, Hasakah map after YPG pushes IS out. Both seen on ConflictNews --Resup (talk) 02:36, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
- I haven't added this to the article yet because it's unclear if and when this really happened. YPG statement is from July 30, Chuck Pfarrer says July 31, Turkey says it didn't happen. I'm looking out for better information. --CE (talk) 14:00, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
- Cemetery of martyrs, #Kobane: Candles lighted to commemorate those who lost their lives defending their land #Newroz , on twitter