Talk:Alleged chemical attack, March 24, 2013

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Date and Time

Should we re-direct this to alleged March 24 attack? If it goes down and gets searched for that way, I say yes. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:20, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Renamed. --CE (talk) 13:57, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Cool. Things gettin' done. For the record, it was named March 25, as that's when the first reports came in. Might well have been late on the 24th. Details still sketchy. --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:00, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
k, created redirects from the old name. Can't hurt after all. Not that we don't have enough space. --CE (talk) 14:11, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Sources

Reuters had an early report:

Syrian opposition campaigners said on Monday Syrian forces fired what they said were chemical weapons from multiple rocket launchers at rebels surrounding an army base in the town of Adra on the outskirts of Damascus, killing two fighters and wounding 23.
"Doctors are describing the chemical weapon used as phosphorus that hits the nervous system and causes imbalance and loss of consciousness. The two fighters were very close to where the rockets exploded and they died swiftly. The rest are being treated with Atropine," said Mohammad al-Doumani, an activist in the nearby town of Douma, where the wounded were transported.
There was no independent confirmation of the attack, which follows the death of 26 people in a rocket attack near the city of Aleppo last week. The authorities and rebels accused each other of firing a missile carrying chemicals there. [1]

The rebel fighter-informed Local Coordinating Committees (LCC) includes the attack in their summary for March 24: "2 (martyrs) in Chemical Weapon (in Adra) ... Chemical Weapon were recorded in Adra in Damascus."

Damascus Suburbs: Adra: Two martyred and dozens on injuries were reported due to shelling with chemical phosphorus bombs in the town
Damascus Suburbs: Adra: The Fall of several wounded in the shelling with rockets holding chemical materials, by the regime
Video: إصابات جراء القصف بقنابل الفوسفور الكيميائي في عدرا بريف دمشق
Injuries due to Shelling UsingChemical Phesphorious Bombs in Adara, Damascus Suburbs [2]
Phosphorus is what Israel uses in Gaza. Not a chemical weapon, but its use in civilian areas has been condemned. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:05, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
True, white phosporus. That 0:22 video is pretty vague. However, I think the first victim shown is convulsing a bit. A quick search suggests most studies have been on oral ingestion of amounts, causing gastrointestinal problems, etc. Breathed smoke, somehow less studied, unknown (?). No word on neurological effects. My impression from how it works and how "Phossy jaw" is said to happen, is it would cause tissue damage wherever fine particles alight before burning themselves out. I wouldn't guess that for the video, but that's what the rebels are saying, isn't it? No wonder this story never took off. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:05, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
In retrospect, it's pretty clear "phosphorous" that hits the nervous system means organophosphate.;;; I've seen it called organic phosphorous (in error-the phos is not from phophorous). Some translation issue. They're describing maybe sarin. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:52, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Video, Shaam News Network, April 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCGLK5uHANo "2 dead, 20 injured," says the doctor. "I was in Adraa," says rebel-looking patient. The patients are pretty much all shown here, fighting-age males.

Location

Basic: Adra district on Wikimpaia, in two sectors in the far northeast of Damascus, right next to Al-Ghouta, district 4 army base. The previous alleged strike of March 19 was on Al-Otaybah, 15 km southeast of Adra.

Death Toll

I just released The report Red Flags Across the Red Line and have to note an error. That lists zero dead for this incident, because I forgot to check the details. Reports said 2 killed, and VDC lists these. Of 106 Damascus suburbs people killed March 23 and 24 (deadly days there), two rebel fighters from Douma only are listed as dying from chemical and toxic gasses. Ahmad Arbash, Sa'eid Mahmoud Karim, both killed in Adra, it says. Karim has an image: face appears a bit purple, eyes may be puffy.

There's a larger claim, but confused. As Pmr9 has assembled at Talk:British involvement in Syria#British government's letters to the UN Secretary-General - the The Guardian reported "A letter from the British government to the UN demanding an investigation said that it had seen "limited but persuasive evidence" of chemical attacks, citing incidents on 19 and 23 March in Aleppo and Damascus and an attack in Homs in December..." and the New York times reported "Britain said there were reports of 15 deaths in the suburban Damascus attack and up to 10 in Aleppo, where the government and rebels have each accused the other of using chemical weapons." There were plural attacks in the Damascus area at this point (Otaybah 3-19 and Adra 3-23/24). One was said to kill 2, the other to kill 7 (6 known at the time). And Aleppo (Khan al-Assal) was said from the start to kill around 20, not "up to 10," and the UN-OPCW investigation ((PDF) later decided on 19 civilians and one soldier. The totals are similar, depending which Damascus incidents we include: up to 25 vs. 22-29).

  • Did they just shift some Aleppo dead to the other incident(s)?
  • Did they mean the 14 Douma-area fighters killed 3-23 and 3-24?
  • Or just these 11 listed as dying in Adra? (both totals include the gassed two)
  • 14 civilian men from Qatana killed under torture in regime prisons, as reported the 24th? (Qatana is far away, west of Daraya, and they were allegedly detained on Feb. 8, and not clear when killed))
  • 14 men and 1 boy from Kafr Batna killed by random shelling the 24th?

References

  1. Syria Chemical Weapons: Opposition Says Syrian Forces Fired Chemical Weapons At Rebels In Town Of Adra Reporting by Khaled Yacoub Oweis, Reuters, via Huffington Post. March 24, 2013 7:24 pm EDT
  2. Syria Today 24-3-2013 Posted by Abeer, Local Coordinating Committees of Syria, March 25, 2013