Talk:Alleged Chemical Attack, August 21, 2013/Locations/Erbin

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See Alleged Chemical Attack, August 21, 2013/Sources/Video#Irbeen Coordinating Committee

Erbin hospital

Unclaimed children who died at the Erbin hospital

This NBC News story has a lot of details that should allow us to identify the Erbin / Arbin / Irbeen morgue and the victims there.

The hospital in Arbin, in east Damascus, took in 600 patients after last week's poisoning and officials there said 110 of them died. Thirty-five, more than half of them children, had not been claimed.

The Erbin hospital story was also covered by Daily Mail. The film by 'independent filmmaker' Humam Husari with the interview of volunteer paramedic Abu Akram was first distibuted by ITV.

Horror: Volunteer paramedic Abu Akram holds up the body of a one-month-old baby girl, dubbed 'number 14', who he and colleagues have been unable to identify
Apparently this screenshot is from an earlier August 21 video. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 20:16, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

...and by independent.ie and news.com.au:

Off-topic, but didn't Matthew VanDyke also start his al-Qaeda career as a volunteer paramedic? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 20:55, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I am starting to suspect that the whole ITV News story may be a hoax. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 04:29, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Hoax?

This pile of bodies in Erbin is the closest we come to the 400 missing Zamalka victims. I think these are the same people., Erbin / Irbeen reported a low number of victims, yet we have a massive amount of footage and photos coming from "Erbin City".

I suspect this whole story is a hoax. The "volunteer paramedics" – if they are real – would be working for Liwa al-Islam, not the hospital. "Hospital worker" Abu Akram is supposedly interviewed in a hospital office, but there is no indication the place is a hospital, instead we see a Liwa al-Islam flag on the wall. We have a photo of baby 'number 14' dead on the arms of volunteer paramedic Abu Ahmed on August 21, but this happened at the morgue, not in the claimed hospital. In fact, the footage seems to show that morgue is also the hospital – the victims were "treated" there. The cellar morgue is full of junk. It is possible that the place is the cellar of a working hospital, but I find it unlikely that a field hospital would choose to operate in the midst of all this rubbish. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 06:16, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Morgue with ice

Another morgue

All this material is related

Filmmaker Humam Husari

Unified Medical Office for Douma announces victims of chemical attacks on August 21.

Searching for filmmaker Humam Husari I find the following BBC video.

Meanwhile, extremely distressing unverified footage is continuing to emerge, including some from a Syrian filmmaker.

The story does does not mention the name of the filmmaker, but I infer it to be Humam Husari. The clip shows a field hospital with a sign in Arabic with the logo of the Unified Medical Office of Douma City. The locations is similar to the ice morgue above, but here we see real hospital furniture. Both are likely parts of a larger structure. One of the people interviewed says he came from Zamalka. I believe this is the field hospital with the "400" Zamalka victims.

Very impressive. As they note, it's still unverified, BUT, this time it's from a filmmaker, so it's ... video. There are definitely people having breathing problems here. Good views of the clinic. At 0:17 that could be the Douma logo with grapes, but it looks different to me. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:19, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Here we have Humam Husari interviewed by CBC via Skype:

Al Jazeera:

Skype interview on August 21:

This may be original ITV footage:

A Syrian filmmaker has said hospital workers in Damascus are struggling to identify babies who survived the alleged chemical attack because their parents may already be dead and buried.
Speaking on Skype, Humam Husari told ITV News a large number of bodies were buried before they had been identified.

The story has a link to this ITV story about Zamalka and the Ghost House.

This ITV story combines all the Humam Husari footage into one. Evidently he took part in one of the guided tours at Ghost House. (Can we see his face in the other footage?)

Here are his Zamalka clips for sale to broadcasters.

Here is Google+ and YouTube. Latest video is 7 months old. This video may show the same field hospital:

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 02:07, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

More related videos from Douma here: Alleged Chemical Attack, August 21, 2013/Sources/Video#Unified Medical Office for Douma. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:54, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

2013

  • Guide to Understanding How ‘Unhospitals’ Cannot Be Bombed - Miri Wood, Syrianews.cc, February 11, 2016
    On 21 November, NGO Nobel Laureate, Medicins Sans Frontieres (MSF) issued a statement suggesting that its hospital, near Damascus, had been bombed by aerial strikes, on 19 November, mid-afternoon, by an unknown number of staccato-dropped missiles. MSF alleged two fatalities, 13 injuries. The wishing-to-remain-anonymous director of the “Erbin” makeshift/hospital is quoted about the chaos, drama, and double drama of the event, including that two medics had been injured, one requiring a miraculously successful “open chest surgery,” amidst the rubble-infused disarray.

Stabbed Girl?

Moved from Talk:Alleged Chemical Attack, August 21, 2013#On site video

This video gives some context:

A father is shedding tears over his children who were killed due to the shelling on Eastern Gouta with chemical weapons by Assad's gangs. A great number of injuries was documented which is not less than 50 martyrs so far in this area. All of them died due to suffocation with poisonous gas. We urge the International Investigation Committee and the powerless world to see how Syria's children are getting killed with chemical weapons by the hands of an imbecile tyrant.

Interestingly the "father" is more interested in calling for the UN and NATO to bomb "Assad" than in the death of his daughters. One must thus conclude that this is a pure propaganda video and provides no evidence on the situation on the ground, apart from the fact that three people are dead.

On closer inspection one must ask: why does the girl have an open stab wound on her chest? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:16, 27 August 2013 (UTC) (see here for details and analysis) --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:29, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Moved from Talk:Alleged Chemical Attack, August 21, 2013/Victims Analysis

Answer: No (see end of section). For what it's worth, then:

Father with stabbed girl.jpg

One video, two postings:

A father is shedding tears over his children who were killed due to the shelling on Eastern Gouta with chemical weapons by Assad's gangs. A great number of injuries was documented which is not less than 50 martyrs so far in this area. All of them died due to suffocation with poisonous gas. We urge the International Investigation Committee and the powerless world to see how Syria's children are getting killed with chemical weapons by the hands of an imbecile tyrant.

Interestingly the "father" is more interested in calling for the UN and NATO to bomb "Assad" than in the death of his daughters. One must thus conclude that this is a pure propaganda video and provides no evidence on the situation on the ground, apart from the fact that three people are dead. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:16, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

The girl in yellow seems to be the one discussed below not matching the other girl in yellow. That scene is given as Irbin, suggested here by poster "MrERBEEN2011·710." As for the girl in purple more at the center of this video, that must be her next to her sister in the other video - similar shirt and circular logo with pink center and lighter fringe. --Caustic Logic (talk)

On closer inspection one must ask: why does the girl have an open stab wound on her chest? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:16, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

I watched this, forgot to comment. Pretty horrible, of course. He's saying he's her father, isn't he? I'm not buying it, too old. The dead guy next to the dead kids seems a better fit - in his undershirt. "It isn't my turn to eat today," her last words - that was a bit much. And yes, she does have a hole in her chest, right about over the heart. It almost looks like the old creep is sticking his finger in it at one point, and it seems wider after that. I could wonder about a medical reason -there are some conditions where you inject adrenaline into the heart with a giant needle, like in the movie Pulp Fiction. Otherwise, looks like an Islamist stabbed her in the heart with a small blade. Maybe they're Alawites really. Whatever, camera fodder for cannon pleadings. Callous baby-shakers, I hate these people. Hands off Syria, motherfucker! --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:28, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
Also, I wonder why they didn't think to pull her shirt back down. She's apparently even done bleeding by this time. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:42, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

The girl in purple can also be seen here, in a hospital setting - same pushed-up shirt, same gray pants with purple pocket seams: 2013-8-21 هااام - الاصابات بين الاطفال والنساء جراء القصف الاسلحة اليكماويةعلى الغوطة الشرقية G-trans: Haaam - injuries among children and women shelling weapons Alakmawihaly the East Gouta. Stamped Erbin, uploaded by erbeeni. That must be her next to the girl in yellow below. She's visible here too, getting oxygen. Her eyes are very sunken and dark-looking. Both look pretty dead, maybe a day in and past rigor mortis. But they are being treated with IVs and have been washed down as if chemical exposed. Living patients litter the floor, these two get the beds. Do they think she might be alive? Didn't her "father" inform them of her condition and her sad last words? --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:42, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

In that video, you just cannot see the purple girl's left side to see if the wound is there yet, but probably. I couldn't save a copy, cannot get a good screen pause at 0:14 or 0:26 to be sure - the cameraman seems to be avoiding a view of that area, for one clue it is wounded in this non-CW way. Again, they didn't just pull her shirt back down, I wonder why? It's pulled down in the later morgue video, after they conceded a failure to revive her and her sister. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:30, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

I extracted the frames from the video. These are a few fuzzy frames that show the camera panning past the stabbed side. There is something dark purple there, cannot say what. What the video does, it cannot prove the stab was not there. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:05, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
False Lead Alert

I was a little baffled how the wound wasn't bleeding (there are possible reasons), and it turns out it's not a wound, and our graphics are either irrelevant or misnamed. Looking through photos, I found a few useful views of these sisters in better resolution. With "dad," the spot looking more like a large birthmark, no depth. It's even more clear laying next to her sister, whose arm is already bandaged for an IV it seems was applied pretty roughly - if not for these clues I'd say she was sliced in the arm. This is apparently after [http://images1.naharnet.com/images/89713/w460.jpg?1377082512 she was given oxygen at the hospital. So the "home" they were filmed in (looks like a cluttered basement) is something else, or anyway after the clinic visit. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:23, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

The vid by MRERBEEN2011 now has additional political significance as it is a part of the Feinstein Package being shopped to Congress by Obama. It is the last of the 13 vids in that package. The "purple child" appears to have been incontinent, which suggests two things 1) if he/she is dead, he/she couldn't have been dead but for a very few moments or the pants would have dried; 2) this is one of the few victims of the Feinstein Package that could be said to be consistent w/ a fatal dose of sarin, but the additional vids discussed here pretty well nix that. Also, I see a very slight extension -- maybe -- of the child's L leg just as the camera is moving to the next child. I thought the spot on the chest was a b'mark, too. I believe a b'mark is a vascular anomaly. Would it retain its color post-mortem? Pierpont (talk) 20:47, 11 September 2013 (UTC) Pierpont
I still think it may be a wound. This is a murder investigation. Until we know how she died, we cannot dismiss possible signs like these. I would really like to see high-resolution photos. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:25, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
Click the links, first two. Clear enough, I think, to say it's all 2-dimensional surface color. A massive one to be sure, but no hole and no blood. --Caustic Logic (talk) 00:43, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Same girl here "incontinent" and with bleeding nose. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:17, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Incontenence perhaps relevant. This happens a lot with executed people who are violently killed, from the shock and fright. But she doesn't seem to have been killed that way, so more likely to be from something else. As for the bleeding nose, she has a dab of blood below her nose, right chest, left arm. Could all be someone else's blood. Or hers, especially under the nose, but it's not apparently running. --Caustic Logic (talk) 00:43, 15 September 2013 (UTC)