Talk:Ali Al-Sayed

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Lost Work

Sucky thing, I had just finally done a pretty major update of this page, with the excursion all explained, partly, the family link explained in detail, etc. I tried a standard Google search for the page and asked for the cache but it gave me nothing, unlike two days ago: "About: blank." Can anyone help rescue those changes, or will they have to wait for re-do? --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:18, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I looked it up, the cached version on Google is from Oct 23, a day after this version and apparently before your edits. So that is lost, i'm afraid. The RPG page and the Shumariyeh page, which Petri sent us as html, will be restored with about the same timestamp. In a couple of hours. Have to fix something else before. --CE (talk) 12:00, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
Sent you this by eamil:
This is Google's cache of It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on 23 Oct 2012 06:58:42 GMT.
May not be the latest one :-(
Generic part:
--Petri Krohn (talk) 21:45, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
Yeah that doesn't have more info than the current one. What's with the page where we lately discussed the rebel video with firing behind the barricade and then running to main street? Can't find it and can't remember on which page it was. Was it on a file talk page? If so, it's lost if we don't find it quickly in the google cache... :o( But at least you added the vid itself to Main Street. --CE (talk) 20:58, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Talk:Houla, May 25: Who Was in Control? would be the best place to check. But I think that talk was scattered a bit and I'm hazy on where. Satto road is discussed there. --Caustic Logic (talk) 21:50, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Ah, there it is, thanks. Looked there but didn't see it. Good morning! :oD --CE (talk) 22:10, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Uncle on Video?

Ali says once his brother, dad, and unclewere taken away, not slaughtered in the walkway, and "the next day I saw them dead on the government TV channel. My uncle came on saying that armed gangs killed his children.” How can we get a look at that video? I imagine it was aired, and hence this effort to explain it. --Caustic Logic 22:05, 6 October 2012 (EST)


This adds something. SANA, May 26 (web cache)

The source added that other al-Qaeda-linked terrorist groups in Taldo town in the province's countryside committed a massacre against al-Sayyid family killing with cold-blood Aref Mohammad al-Sayyid, his two brothers Imad and Ouqba, his wife Izdihar Ali al-Daher and three children.

Aref! Ouqba, and then Imad ... no reflection on the latter, but this must be Ali's family, who lived wherever (not sure how to read the Ali's house thing - that extra house up north seems to have some significance). The name Ali appears too, not as his father's name, but as his mothers' maiden/middle name. Faint whiff of some custody dispute or some such? --Caustic Logic 19:02, 6 October 2012 (EST)

Field expedition with Ali

I took a look at the favorites of Jalal Solomon on his youtube channel. There are two, one shows him in March, in a quite surreal scene in a backyard while shooting/shelling is going on, and the other is from September 14. It's a half an hour long field expedition with him and the cameraman, two FSA guys, one guy who according to the description has removed bodies together with the UN observers, and ... Ali. They are going through the backyards on main street to his house, where he shows them around. It's the same house the french documentary pins down as his and he obviously knows the place very well. Take a look. --CE 09:14, 4 October 2012 (EST)

Jalal Abu Suleiman runs the Houla Media Office and, it seems, the media outlet of the Arbad bin Valid Brigade. He may be the person most responsible for promoting the rebel narrative. -- Petri Krohn 09:31, 4 October 2012 (EST)
The fact that Ali could be interviewed over Skype is proof enough that he was coached by Jalal Suleiman. This footage provides verification. -- Petri Krohn 10:28, 4 October 2012 (EST)
Sorry I'm not contributing, but thanks Petri, and CE, for developing the Jala/media and brigaes and stuff. I look forward to seeing this kind of context develop. It's a useful angle, especially with all the targets publicized a week ahead of the attack, etc. But no (excessive) rush. Man, a lot has been discovered in like two days. --Caustic Logic 22:24, 4 October 2012 (EST)

Place analysis

Excellent find. I did an anlysis, and I can refute this: " It's the same house the french documentary pins down" Not the one in the middle of the frame as we have here. Oh, refute, huh? Yes. I like to argue and I get feisty when I figure a thing out. I think they might start around there, so was agreeing.

We know from Catalina Gomez' footage that that house from the outside is the same as the one she enters, with the bed with the bloodstain and the leafy green pillows. She points to the entrance seen from main street here, and you'll have seen Ali in that entrance from the other side and in the very room after you finished the tour. --CE 21:57, 4 October 2012 (EST)
I can't see her footage, can I? I'm saying the house they walk to and I presume then tour is the same one Catalina went to, if that's the same one the monitors went to twice. It's only NOT the one France 2 pointed at in that still, up there by where they started walking. If so, for Ali's help we still only have two acknowledged Sayed homes, to four named heads of household (six counting Ali's dad's alternate names) --Caustic Logic 22:20, 4 October 2012 (EST)
By 'start walking,' I meant turn south. They seem to start the video up here. The edit at 2:01 is as they approach these buildings, and after the cut they're just on the other side of them, looking west down an alley, low wall on the left. and where they turn west, get almost to the street, then turn left and start going though houses - that might be two houses north from the one France 2 showed.
Ah, now I get what you mean. Not entirely sure about the way yet, but where they end can't be the house we matched with what France2 showed, you're right. "Ali's" house is almost certainly the one you marked here, with the little walled garden and open field behind, and the neighbour house fits as well. --CE 23:00, 4 October 2012 (EST)
btw, splendid work with the AbdulRazaq (and in general) graphics. --CE 23:13, 4 October 2012 (EST)

Maybe Ali knew the way that far (somehow...) But they bank left/south and go a long ways. Does Ali know the area well? At 0:45 there's a hand signal to him from his main guardian (Adidas shirt) after getting out of his sight. A loong ways they traipse through the honeycomb they made of the place - each hole I expect them to stop and say this is where the Shabiha blasted in and killed Ali's family, but they keep going, in one building and out across a field and into another house, past a couch and sandbags embattlement, etc.. The fighters sure know it well.

Sunset, sun from west. Behind some houses at 3 :54, clear view of fields to the southeast. The guardian is pointing to some clustered homes there, roughly to the forward Army base and/or Al-Shumariyeh (per my new theory), saying something to Ali. Host does same for camera 4 :02, bad wind. What does he say ? Something about Shabiha … the equipped fighter has something to add. They keep walking.

By 5 :45 they’re a ways south - backs of buildings are even, three small ones in a row. To the left, no other buildings, open fields. Ahead, shadows of buildings to the right, but no buildings visible straight ahead either. That almost surely puts them here, so by then just passing the arches. About to the building the monitors filmed from so heavily. I needn’t keep watching this long dramatic walk. Fast-forward : 7 :47 at the house, pointing, "this is where we came in the back door and started shooting," (kidding) But that’s not it either. They still cross the little forest and finally at 9 :45 that’s the place the monitors et al. saw.

And that’s all I have time for at the moment, but I'm sure other clues abide. I better not even look now or I'll get sucked in. --Caustic Logic 18:14, 4 October 2012 (EST)


Seeing more pictures and videos, my assessment of Ali's age has changed. I still don't think he looks 11, but more possibly. Not 8 either, but more in the 9-10 range. And of course he's a few months older now. For what that's worth. Any thoughts before I update? No rush. --Caustic Logic 08:35, 5 October 2012 (EST)

Paranormal explanations?

There is the possibility that "Ali" is an impostor, but truly believes he is Ali. It is possible that in extremely shocking circumstances taking someone else's personality works as a psychological defense against the horror. One might also compare this to the Anastasia impostors. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:41, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

That's pretty silly. If you mean it seriously, I'll say it's possible, and makes about as much sense than his telling it like it really was. I've seen one rebel video (no link) where a little kids whose family was just killed, now safely with the rebels, says they've all flown to lovely Saudi Arabia for a vacation and might be gone for a while. His eyes say otherwise, unlike Ali's, with real sorrow. But his replacement is escapist, not a cartoon version of what really happened. If Ali had made up another killed family to escape, the remembrance of happy protests and kebobs are consistent enough. However, one would think the basic details like who has what name would be among the few things you'd obsess over (ah, my dream dad ... Shaoqi? Ali? ...) To not have those down is more consistent with a part-time acting gig, and sloppy coaching as well. Maybe on purpose even, in disdain for the infidel audience. So do I win? Yay! --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:14, 7 December 2012 (UTC)