Talk:April 29, 2011 in Deraa

Translations

 * copied from Translation Requests

2 boys arrested or killed April 29, 2011, one of them very famously - morgue photos leaked in March, 2015 by "Caesar" of affiliates via Zaman al-Wasl - I tried making out the apparent abbreviations next to Thamer's unusual number. Looks like a modified Aliph (A), then Shin (sh), so maybe short for ash-shahid, the martyr? Below, an unclear shape/symbol. Then the big 12, unusually done in Western Arabic numerals. Every translation/connotation we can get from this helps establish what this shows. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:30, 2 May 2016 (UTC)


 * It is just the number first written in numeric form then in words
 * 12 أثنى عشر
 * 12 Twelve
 * --TogetherSy (talk) 14:36, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Huh, strange. This boy has strangely varied numbering. 12 in E.Arabic on a card, in W.Arabic, and spelled out, on this tape, and also in E.Arabic tiles in one morgue photo. I don't know why - maybe as a document of terrorism to show (in diplomatic circles?) to different audiences ... ?? --Caustic Logic (talk) 01:22, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

More questions about fellow victim Mahmoud Al-Zoubi - video of the martyr includes forehead and chest tape (good views inset), ID card, official paperwork, and narration. I'd like to know what the paperwork says (or is said to say), and if any sense can be made of the scribbles on the tape. words? letters? numerals? symbols? What does the narration add about how and when the man died and how they know that. How did these activists obtain his ID card? --Caustic Logic (talk) 05:57, 15 May 2016 (UTC)


 * This is the transliteration of the narration & its translation
 * بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
 * In the name of Allah most gracious most merciful
 * قال عليه الصلاة والسلام: ان الله يستحي ان يعذب شيبة شابت في الاسلام
 * He, who mercy & prayers are upon him, said:
 * God shies from torturing a man whose hair became grey while [practicing] Islam.
 * ان هذا الرجل ذو الشيبة وهو يناهز من العمر 72 عاما
 * This man with grey hair, who is over 72 years old,
 * لقد اعتقل متلبسا وهو يقرأ القرآن
 * was arrested in the act of reading Quran
 * في طريقه الى درعا لفك الحصار عن أهله هناك
 * while he was on his way to Daraa, to break the siege [imposed] on his people there.
 * وتمت مجزرة صيدا بتاريخ 29/4/2011
 * And the massacre of Saida happened on 4/29/2011
 * وفارق الحياة تحت التعذيب
 * and he lost his life due to torture
 * على أيدي هذا النظام الظالم وأهله
 * [inflicted] by the hands of this unjust regime & its people.
 * ألا يستحون من هذه الشيبة؟ ألا يتفكرون
 * Don't they feel shy from his grey hair? Don't they think?
 * والى متى هذا القهر؟
 * And till when will this oppression [last]?
 * هذه الاصلاحات التي وعد بها بشار الأسد
 * These are the reforms promised by Bashar Al-Assad!
 * قتل الآباء والأبناء. قتل الأطفال والنساء
 * He [Assad] killed the fathers & sons. He killed the children & the women.
 * ولكن صدق الله حين قال في محكم كتابه:
 * But Allah told the truth when he said in his book:
 * وما الله بغافل عما يعمل الظالمون
 * Allah is never ignorant of what the unjust people do.
 * ولكن ما عهدناه عن هذا الرجل من التزام في بيوت الله
 * But of what we were accustomed to from this man: of being present in the houses of Allah [mosques]
 * من صلاة وقراءة قرآن
 * and praying and reciting Quran
 * أنه لايسجد ولا يركع الا لله
 * [therefore] He doesn't kneel but to Allah
 * وقد طلب منه أن يسجد الى صورة بشار الأسد
 * and it was asked of him to kneel to the photograph of Bashar Al-Assad
 * ولكنه أبى وقتل من أجل ذلك
 * but he refused and was killed for that.
 * والحمد لله رب العالمين
 * thanks to Allah the lord of all
 * سورية، درعا، بلدة المسيفرة
 * Syria, Daraa, the village of Musaifereh
 * بتاريخ 23/5/2011
 * on the date of 5/23/2011
 * حتى ما يقال نحن في ليبيا أو اليمن
 * so that they won't say we are in Libya or Yemen.
 * هذا الرجل وهذا التعذيب الذي عذب به
 * This man and the torture that he was tortured with
 * تحت الكهرباء وتحت العصي وتحت الهراوات الكهربائية
 * under electricity, by sticks, with electric batons
 * وهذا الحروق بالسجاير والكهرباء والضرب على الرأس والأقدام
 * these burns by cigarettes and electricity and the beatings on the head and feet
 * حتى قتل
 * until he was killed
 * ونسأل الله له الشهادة والحمدلله رب العالمين
 * We ask [Allah] to grant him martyrdom and thanks to Allah the lord of all.


 * The narration is an agitation message delivered in a religious sermon style. The narrator mimics the style & tone of mosque preachers in Friday prayers.
 * There is no mention of how they obtained his ID. Just an emphasis on showing his birthrate: 9 Feb 1939.
 * From 0:17 till 00:58 a photocopy of a hand written paper claimed to be the report of the forensic department in the hospital of Daraa is presented. Most of the paper is not clear, but the photographer is interested in only showing the photocopied stamp of the Forensic Department in Daraa Hospital which is in the lower left corner of the paper along with an indiscernible signature of a doctor & the date 23 May 2011. Then he focuses on the lower right corner that bears the words: "photo copy of the original" under the red stamp of the hospital. It is noticeable that there should be the signature of the person authenticating the photocopy of the document along with the stamp, but here it is lacking.
 * The photographer then shows us the last line of the paper, which [surprisingly] reads:
 * سبب الوفاة توقف القلب (الناتج): التالي لشدة نفسية ناجمة عن العنف والتعذيب
 * Heart arrest due to psychological distress caused by violence and "torture". [A phrase opposition members always claim that regime hospitals never issue to them]
 * The head tape is surprisingly upside down, in the direction of the camera view not the natural direction of the corpse. on the upper line an س like shape that I would say is a badly written 23 and under it there is /5/2011.
 * The chest tape shows the name of the deceased: حمود أحمد عبدالر Hmoud Ahmad Abdulra[hman], which is slightly different from the name on ID: محمود احمد العبدالرحمن [Ma]hmoud Ahmad [Al-]Abdulrhman.
 * --TogetherSy (talk) 20:08, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Oh cool, thanks! Will review. Heart failure ... could actually be. Same story they say kept being repeated for the Caesar photos "detainees" except with violence noted... --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:19, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Considering this fascinating story - adding to victim profile and upcoming Hamza report. "it was asked of him to kneel to the photograph of Bashar Al-Assad, but he refused and was killed for that." Huh. They learned about this. Same thing for both of the youngest victims, Hamza and Thamer - maybe they weren't reading the Quran in the van, but they were both asked to kneel to Assad or praise him, "witnesses" said, and were then killed for refusing. Pretty stupid story they've repeated three times now. Tape might say 5/2011 and then 23, so body return date. Very sloppy, but I can see it, and neither of us can see much else ... Great notes as well! --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:34, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Addition to article will be slow - report first. --Caustic Logic (talk) 01:22, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Al-Zoubi
Hey Adam, interesting work. Some random observations:

In the SANA "official story" piece, the alleged buddy of the kid says that they used to "perform Friday prayers at the Grand Mosque in al-Jizah led by sheikh Haroon al-Zoubi and Talal Shkeir who were calling for Jihad.” Maybe head of the clan and reason why so many al-Zoubis were there?

The SANA report is among the Stratfor mails leaked by WikiLeaks, sent to HQ on June 1, 2011: SYRIA - Syrian news agency raps media for fake reports on death of 13-year old

In August 2012, a deputy health minister of Syria named Ma'moun al-Zoubi was assassinated in Deraa. The current Information Minister of Syria is named Omran al-Zoubi.

--CE (talk) 12:47, 4 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks, it's been a bit sloppy but getting there. There are so many Zoubi, they're not probably all related. Like the guy was named Khatib, but not related to Hamza. But then, with so many Zoubis, how could some not be? (middle names help tie some of these together.) The Imam might relate ... could get many family involved, but would they be about half, or is there another reason they're about half of the dead? The minister I don't know ... there's also an al-Zoubi high on the rebel side, "Asaad al-Zoubi, a former army colonel who now leads the Free Syrian Army in southern Syria" and is head #2 of the High Negotiating Committee (where #1 is Mohammed Alloush). --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:55, 4 May 2016 (UTC)