Talk:Alleged Chemical Attack, April 11, 2014

Video

 * Brown Moses playlist 8 videos so far. Actually seems to cover a second attack of the same sort here, on the 18th! WTF? --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:22, 22 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Alleged Chemical Attack in Kafr Zita, Hama, April 11th 2014 - 16 videos so far. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:25, 22 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Collection of recent videos allegedly showing scenes of chlorine poisoning (not necessarily on the 11th), some more obviously fake than others, by @Syricide. Here for example are two hilarious "doctors" with sunglasses. --CE (talk) 11:26, 22 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Haaaaam Kffersita | moment of revelation and an explosion in the barrel of the town and the escalation of toxic gases I see an explosion, big, at sunset (or maybe sunrise), And I hear Allahu Akbar before, during and after it. I'm not hearing a helicopter.


 * Important Media Hama Kffersita moment the fall of explosive barrels bearing toxic materials from helicopters on This seems to be the same blast, preceded by an object, falling from a helicopter. It's really quiet, way the hell up there. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:37, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

VDC
The Syrian Center for documentation of violations (CDV) issued a report:
 * أنباء عن استخدام غازات محرمة دوليا في مدينة كفرزيتا - محافظة حماه ( Reports of the use of internationally prohibited gases in the city Kffersita - Hama Province ) April 14

Google translated from Arabic, this report calls for the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons "to send a specialist team to the sites which were exposed to these gases and open an immediate investigation," a referral to the ICC, and for the UN security council to force the Syrian government to both allow UN inspectors into the cirty, and to halt all military activity against rebels in "the city," to preserve the evidence of course.

This report draws on activists, field clinic doctors, a "defected colonel" (who explained Assad's motive), and more, to make these claims: - 3 barrels of explosive at around six in the evening of Friday, 11.04.2014, and two others were about eleven o'clock at night. - One medical source said "the smell of the gas used was very clear as chlorine gas which is similar to a preparation ( Clorox ) which is used in homes, the temperature was relatively warm with winds of medium Alsrahmma led to the erosion of the smell of gas surroundings 500 meters from the (impact site." - Rebel medics collected blood and urine samples from the five most effected. Those seem to be 5% of a total of about "the estimated 100 cases." "Following treatment provided improved state of 95% of the patients except for five cases of severely infected , where was converted to 3 hospitals in northern Syria." - The death toll is unclear but low. All they specify is an unidentified child actually killed by a head injury (caused by the barrel bomb but complicated by the gas), and a 70-year-old man from Morek named Mustafa Ahmed al-Mohammad, also killed by head trauma. Actual gas fatalities, unclear, possibly zero. Most victims were "displaced" people (often meaning hostages) from Morek. "It is worth mentioning that most of the injured were displaced from the neighboring city of Mork." Yes it is.

A second gassing the following day is mentioned:
 * Also been used explosive barrels loaded and toxic chemical gas for a second time the next day 12.04.2014 where they were shelling of the city by four explosive barrels each bearing gases and toxic chemical led to get the same symptoms when dozens of residents of the city have been bombing in the warm eastern part of the city, according to witnesses eye . The activists filmed two barrels after their fall , one of them did not explode ; They said it contains gases that led to the injuries . They have images of this. See the device, below. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:17, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

SOHR Facebook

 * April 11 final toll: No mention. 4 soldiers, two civilians, one rebel killed.
 * April 12 final toll: No mention either. 5 soldiers, one civilian, one JaN fighter "killed by barrels bombardment on Hama countryside. ."
 * April 13 final toll: Still nothing. 3 soldiers, 3 civilians, 1 JaN.
 * April 14: Same. 2 civilians, 1 rebel, 4 soldiers.
 * April 15: "Hama province: The airforce renewed bombardment on the Kafrzeita town amid regime bombardment on parts of the Mourk town with no reports of injuries. 1 woman suffocated to death after aerial bombardment on the Kafrzeita town and its surrounding areas."

Apparently, then the people who knew about this attack at the time are not members of SOHR's extensive activist network. People outside that include the Syrian government, the various Islamist and especially al-Qaeda groups ... also, it suggests that this helicopter dropping this regime-improvised device was not terribly visible to the wider populace, which will include SOHR types, normally. Maybe it was a low-flying chopper, killing people in a basement somewhere? --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:14, 22 April 2014 (UTC)


 * SOHR side-notes: ... - 4-19 "clashes continue between regime forces backed by NDF, against Islamic battalions and Jabhat Al-Nusra around Morek town in the northern countryside} -  4-20 Islamists shell Alawites on Easter - same - 4/21 continued fighting, bombing around Morek

Incident Delineation
Since we've lost track of new CW allegations until this story hit, it might be useful here to catalog and sort out what we've missed. It seems April has been a busy month for toxic molecules in Syria.

Kafr Zita location: 25 km northeast of Hama city (on Wikimapia)

Kafr Zita Area

 * April 11, main subject: around 100 effected, 5 seriously, none fatally. Two others died from head injuries. (see )
 * April 12:
 * April 18:
 * April 21: Reuters, 4/22:
 * ''On Monday, opposition groups reported a further attack, this time 20 miles northeast of Kfar Zeita in the town of Telminnes. Video footage was posted on YouTube by several opposition groups of men, women and children being treated in a field hospital. Many appeared to have trouble breathing and medics held them down. One boy who looked less than 10 years old shook as a medic poured a liquid on his eyes and in his mouth.

A Reuters photograph of another young boy who had been transferred to a hospital closer to the Turkish border showed him lying dead on a stretcher with blood around his mouth. Medics said he had been exposed to chlorine gas at Telminnes. Videos from the site of Monday's bombing showed the same yellow canisters, this time twisted from an explosion.'' 

Elsewhere
Reuters, April 21, reports on at least four allegations just in in April, the last being "last week" in the Damascus suburb of Harasta, posting "footage of four men being treated by medics.''

The Device
April 12 Barrels: The remains of the alleged chlorine barrels used in a follow-up attack of the 12th, allegedly, can be seen in photos provided by the CDV in their April 14 report. barrel 1 - barrel 2. Both show close-ups on just heavy iron plating, fairly rusted, with no kind of mechanisms or anything shown. Each one shows different parts of this central stamp in what seems English:
 * CL2 (read chlorine)
 * (a V logo and circled B)
 * NORINCO CAF

The second one has stamped to the left side:
 * NO
 * TP 45 bar
 * WP 30 bar
 * w __ kg

And to the right, a V, maybe S right beneath, then the picture and it seems the fragment cut off. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:29, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Despite the name's sound, NORINCO is a Chinese company, their biggest arms producer, according to Reuters, April 22: China North Industries Group Corporation "Norinco" didn't answer "repeated calls."

Reuters' Oliver Homes had Brown Moses provide analysis of the barrel bombs used here.
 * Eliot Higgins, a British-based researcher who trawls daily through online videos of Syria's civil war to verify weapons in them, said that these "chlorine bombs" have similar features to improvised barrel bombs the army has used in the war.
 * He said one bomb from Kafr Zeita shows metal rods, consistent with other large government barrel bomb designs, to hold the impact fuse plate in place.
 * Another video of an exploded barrel bomb shows a canister inside the barrel, which has fins on the back and what appear to be explosives around the top of the canister with a detonation cord.
 * "The interesting thing about these new videos is that there's the same blue det cord you see in other DIY barrel bombs," Higgins said.

The Chinese foreign ministry did answer to the inquiry by Reuters. --CE (talk) 12:19, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Timing
Chlorine is not among the listed chemicals to be destroyed. It has plenty of legitimate uses and so was neither listed nor asked after along with weapons-only chemicals. Following the new allegations, Reuters' Oliver Holmes wrote this:
 * Most of chemical weapons removed from Syria: UN spokesman (Xinhua, April 22)
 * L.A. Times: Removal of Syrian chemical weapons almost 90% complete, monitor says (OPCS puts it at 86.5%)
 * Chlorine, a so-called dual-use chemical that has industrial uses, is not on the list of chemical weapons submitted to the OPCW but was produced in Syria before the war. It should have been declared if the government has it, an OPCW spokesman said.

It seems unlikely, or begging an explanation, that weaponized chlorine bombs bought from China were not among the type of things asked after. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:18, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

United States
CNN report passed on a sampling of different views on the 21st:


 * "Our assessment is it is, at a minimum, concentrated chlorine dropped from helicopters," a U.S. official said. "That could only be the regime." The official did not speak for full attribution.


 * "You don't have to use sarin and mustard to terrorize a population," another official said of deadly chemical gases. "And you don't have to kill a lot of people to terrorize the population."


 * Sen. John McCain said "If substantiated," the charges meant "the Assad regime must finally be held accountable for it actions." 


 * "There is not a consensus," another U.S. official said. "Some would like to be stronger and some are more cautious. It can't go answered but if we equate it to a chemical attack then the question becomes what are we going to do about it? And I don't think we have figured that out yet."

And this kind of variety of viewpoints co-existing and learning from each other is what ensures that we will always have a vibrant and functioning democracy. :| --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:52, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

France and Israel
(f/c)

Syria
Syrian state media SANA didn't report it immediately, or at all clearly, but on the 14th reported on letters delivered to the United Nations: Syria holds US, Turkish government, Israel, Saudi Arabia responsible for previous and potential chemical massacres in Syria:
 * The (Foreign) ministry added that it supplied the UN Security Council and the UN Secretary-General with important information that divulge intentions of terrorist groups to use chemical weapons in Damascus countryside, Hama countryside and several other areas across Syria to frame the Syrian government for the attack. Syria also sent a new document containing incontestable proof that armed terrorist groups are in possession of the toxic chlorine which they intend to use in Aleppo governorate and other areas in Syria, the letters said.
 * The Syrian government holds the US administration, the Turkish government, Israel and Saudi Arabia and terrorist groups fully responsible for the previous crimes involving the use of chemical weapons in Syria or the ones that might be committed against the Syrian people in the future, added the letters. The letters said Syria calls on the UN Security Council to shoulder responsibilities according to its counterterrorism resolutions and demand that countries supporting terrorists with weapons and funds refrain from it. Syria reaffirms the importance of emptying the Middle East of chemical weapons, the letter concluded.

But earlier on April 1 they reported on UN representative Dr. Bashar al-Jaafari alerting the intercepted calls, interceded plots, and other signs of increasing plans to use toxic gas and frame the government. Jobar, Damascus, was specified at the time: Al-Jaafari: Terrorists planning to launch chemical attack on Jobar to accuse the government From a SANA site search, English only, this is all I found of any relevance to date) --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:52, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

China
(f/c)

OPCW Team Confirms, Survives

 * Syria probably used chlorine gas in attacks this year, weapons inspectors say – ANNE GEARAN, Washington Post, June 18, 2014
 * Chlorine gas-like chemicals likely used in Syrian conflict: watchdog Reuters, June 17:
 * "The information that was available to the fact-finding mission lends credence to the view that toxic chemicals - most likely pulmonary irritating agents, such as chlorine - have been used in Syria," the body said.

But before that...
 * The inspectors, from a joint OPCW/United Nations fact-finding team, were travelling to the central province of Hama to investigate allegations of illegal chlorine attacks by government forces when their convoy came under attack. [ID:nL6N0OD2M6]
 * No team members were injured in the attack, which the Syrian government blamed on rebel fighters.
 * "Despite the grave incident which prevented the fact-finding mission from conducting an important field visit, the team was able to prepare a preliminary report," the organisation said in a statement.

They did not attribute blame for the chemicals or the attack, which was apparently the kind with guns, not gas. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:48, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The source appears to be this press release from OPCW

Ahmet Üzümcü states that "the team was able to prepare a preliminary report". Although he hasn't released this report he says it "lends credence" to a chemical attack. If the report just specifies the agent as "most likely pulmonary irritating agents" then the information available to the team must be pretty vague. Any clothing or vegetation near the impact site of a chlorine bomb should show obvious bleaching - can any of the photos exclude this? Pmr9 (talk) 12:35, 18 June 2014 (UTC)