Category talk:Chemical Weapons

UN investigation from Geneva: Rebels used Sarin!

 * U.N. has testimony that Syrian rebels used sarin gas: investigator – Reuters, May 5, 2013 (mirror)
 * U.N. human rights investigators have gathered testimony from casualties of Syria's civil war and medical staff indicating that rebel forces have used the nerve agent sarin, one of the lead investigators said on Sunday.
 * The United Nations independent commission of inquiry on Syria has not yet seen evidence of government forces having used chemical weapons, which are banned under international law, said commission member Carla Del Ponte.

This investigation is not related to Ban Ki-moon's Gas House Gang.
 * The Geneva-based inquiry into war crimes and other human rights violations is separate from an investigation of the alleged use of chemical weapons in Syria instigated by U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, which has since stalled.

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:34, 6 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for this. I know I'm not the only one who wondered if this was a SEA hack or a real statement. It sounds so bizarre. But it's being repeated pretty widely so far and no correction yet.

Will be looking at/commenting more on this. Will be considering the less obvious reasons for this turn, if it is a turn. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:41, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
 * RT
 * Press TV
 * Telegraph
 * Jerusalem Post
 * Etc...

More news and spin

 * Syrian Rebels and Chemical Weapons – May 7, 2013 By Walid and Theodore Shoebat

Idelb Incident, around May 1
(misspelling left as a reminder to watch that middle-letters dylsexia) --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:52, 2 May 2013 (UTC) Cotnent moved to Talk:Alleged Chemical Attack, April 29, 2013 --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:52, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Syria Accuses Turkey
About time.First source, not best: Talk Radio News Service, Syria Blames West For Chemical Weapons Attacks As UN Investigates From Afar, April 26. The UN investigation is investigating, the report says. On Cyprus, fine for a start. They can go to Khan Al-Assal whenever they want, and Geneva or New York already has evidence sent to them. Anyway, the meat:
 * Assad government officials Friday rejected U.S. and British allegations Damascus had used its chemical arsenal against opposition fighters, and instead accused Turkey of allowing rebels to transfer chemical weapons across the border into Syria.

Is that really all it says? Well, here's a space for that issue. Should be good, eventually. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:35, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

British MI6 operation
I did not know British MI6 agents were operating in Syria:
 * Chemical weapons used in Syria: the first evidence – The Times, April 13 2013 (Original source)
 * Forensic evidence of chemical weapons use in Syria has been found for the first time in a soil sample smuggled out of the country in a secret British operation.
 * Defence sources, who declined to be named, said yesterday that conclusive proof that “some kind of chemical weapon” had been fired in Syria had been established by scientists at the Ministry of Defence’s chemical and biological research establishment at Porton Down in Wiltshire.
 * The discovery, which had not been made public, will put pressure on the United States to consider punitive action against President Assad. The White House warned in December...


 * British scientists 'find evidence of Syrian chemical attack' – The Telegraph, April 12 2013
 * The tests at Porton Down reportedly concluded that the chemical traces were from a weapon rather than gas sometimes used by the Syrian security forces to put down protests.


 * UK ‘confirms’ use of chemical weapons in Syria after secret MI6 op – report – RT, April 13, 2013
 * The UK Ministry of Defense has claimed that chemical weapons were used in the Syrian conflict. Forensic evidence was collected after scientists analyzed soil smuggled out of the country in a secret British operation, the Times reported.
 * The sample was reportedly extracted from a neighborhood on the outskirts of Damascus in March by MI6 agents operating within Syria, the Australian reported at the time.


 * Arutz Sheva, 4/14/2013 UK Finds Proof of Use of Chemical Weapons in Syria – Arutz Sheva, 4/14/2013
 * UK says that chemical weapons were used in the Syrian conflict, after scientists analyzed soil smuggled out of the country.


 * ‘Soil sample proves chemical weapons used in Syria’
 * The sample, said to be taken from a neighborhood on the outskirts of Damascus, was delivered to the UK Ministry of Defense’s chemical and biological research establishment at Porton Down in Wiltshire, where it was identified as containing traces of “some kind of chemical weapon.”

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 04:42, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Excellent, Petri, thanks! Was not up to getting up to speed on this yet, this list helps. Porton Down and British spies snagging dirt were reported before, after Khan Al-Assal (March 19). There, no CW, just "super-power tear gas," they speculated, prior to completing the testing. Because otherwise, it looked like rebel chlorine ... Here, they scientifically and cautiously cannot say what chemical/molecules and stuff. Not for sure Sarin. But definitely a regime-type chemical, probably. Of course. The sample is from near Porton Down, I suspect. Maybe Watership Down, and it's rabbit poison. --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:05, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Possible/Sorta CW Incidents
After the March 24 incident proved so baseless, and this apparent new one of March 28 looks the same, I decided I won't start new pages unless warranted by some further evidence. All those reported from now could be entered with a sub-section here, and explored. Some might get their own page, others just that section here. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

I completely forgot about this philosophy when starting the page on the shaky Alleged chemical attack, April 9, 2013. But the one four days later was more solid, has actual dead humans (two infants and a woman) and deserves its own page. --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:06, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

March 28, Daraya
Youtube video I stumbled across: خطير داريا حالات اختناق بغازات الفوسفور جراء القصف 28-3-2013 (Gtrans: Darya cases of suffocation dangerous gases phosphorus shelling). Channel: DaryaRevlution coordinating city Darya Syrian revolution in Damascus, follow on Facebook. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

May, Qusayr
May 4, FSA spokesman Louay Meqdad says they're still investigating before announcing whether, in fact, Hezbollah shelled Qusayr GM with mustard gas. See Al-Arabiya. Cool side-quote with a bit added:
 * Hezbollah is using these sectarian excuses to drag Lebanese youth into the Syrian conflict,” Almokdad said, urging Lebanon's Sunnis to rise up and help fight the Alawite regime and the Israeli-backed Shi'ite conspiracy. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:41, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Poison Gas Missile on Video!!!
Found at Right Side News (anti-war via anti-Obama) - an article with hits and misses, worth a look. On this, they say: '"Even if we examine the sources in Arabic we find that the reporting on this story is usually done by masters of confusion. For example, how can an FSA reporter film an exploded chemical rocket at a close distance and remain alive?" ICHQIKQPiU4 By chanting Allahu Akbar, clearly. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:27, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

UN teams battle it out
I have difficulty understanding this. (Or the conspiracy behind this.) It seems like Rolf Ekeus was working for some kind of "Inspection Regime". Ahmet Uzumcu was against it. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 11:16, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Why wouldn’t the world’s chemical weapons watchdog talk to Syria? – Colum Lynch, May 3, 2013
 * Had a look. ""There is very little knowledge about what they [the Syrians] really have because the organization does not want to touch governments, which are not parties to the treaties," he said. "My proposal was that they should try to build some skills, but now it's too late. Now, Sellstrom has to start from scratch."" Maybe the suspicion is there are no CWs, while they wanted to use the suspicion there are as a lever for regime change someday. Syria (+Russia, China?) complied until now to appear tough. Now, worried about invasion even more, they still won't come clean. That's one line of thought, anyway. I don't know. --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:26, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Now, you truly are a conspiracy theorists :-) Petri Krohn (talk) 09:46, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:35, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and Åke Sellström, Head of the UN fact-finding mission on allegations of chemical weapons use in Syria, address the press – audio, 2013-04-29
 * U.N. chemical weapons chief: time is running out to get to the scene of the crime in Syria – Colum Lynch, May 6, 2013
 * On Syria Rebels' Sarin, Del Ponte Undercut by US & UN, Ban's Team Not Interested? – May 6, 2013, Matthew Russell Lee
 * On Syria Sarin, UN Tells ICP Sellstrom & Del Ponte's Probes UNrelated, Why? – May 6, 2013, Matthew Russell Lee
 * On Syria Sarin Gas, UN Spox Criticizes ICP Blog, Won't Say if Sellstrom Got or Sought Del Ponte Info – YouTube, InnerCityPress
 * On Syria Sarin, UN Ban Ki-moon Spox Criticizes Inner City Press, Won't Say If Sellstrom Has Got or Wants Del Ponte Info – May 7, 2013, Matthew Russell Lee (InnerCityPress)

Carla Del Ponte
Carla Del Ponte, a leading member of a UN commission of inquiry says, it was rebels, not Assad that used sarin.
 * ''"Our investigators have been in neighboring countries interviewing victims, doctors and field hospitals.
 * According to their report of last week, which I have seen, there are strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof of the use of sarin gas, from the way the victims were treated."


 * U.N. has testimony that Syrian rebels used sarin gas: investigator – Chicago Tribune via Reuters, May 5, 2013
 * Is this the only US newspaper that published the Reuters story?
 * Syrian militants used chemical weapons: UN investigators – PressTV, May 5, 2013
 * UN's Del Ponte says evidence Syria rebels 'used sarin' – BBC, 6 May 2013
 * Carla del Ponte 'stupefied by Syrian opposition sarin use – Carla Del Ponte on BBC video: We have no indication at all, that the Syrian government had used chemical weapons.
 * U.N.: Syria rebels may have used sarin – CNN, May 6, 2013
 * UN investigator suggests it was Syria's rebels who used chemical weapons – Ariel Zirulnick | Christian Science Monitor, May 6, 2013

Why did she come out with the information at the time she did? Evidently to avert WWIII, or what ever would develop from a NATO attack on Syria. It is my belief that your / our / Adam's attack on the Sellström team and the way it was prominently published by Global Research played an important part in encouraging her – and shielding her from the counterattack. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 10:33, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Ha! Good clarifier there. There definitely are other readers. The thought crossed my mind. And maybe she did see that, or something else, to embolden her. But then, that was published now because of the urgency of the info coming in just now, and she too is ... now. So, most reasonably, little or no effect, but it's cool to be able to say it's a possibility. :) --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:41, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Reaction
It is interesting to follow the warmongers in panic after Carla Del Ponte made the announcement. See #DelPonte and #CarlaDelPonte on Twitter. Sharmine Narwani explains: ''All hell breaking loose behind scene re Carla Del Ponte's statement that #Syria rebels have used sarin. UN starting to troubleshoot now...'' Here are some of the highlights: Maybe they can make the public un-believe Del Ponte's claim, that the rebels used sarin, but no one will ever again believe NATO's claims that Assad did. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 10:33, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Press release from the Commission of Inquiry on Syria (chemical weapons) – Independent International Commission on the Syrian Arab Republic, May 6, 2013 (PDF)
 * Irresponsible statements – Del Ponte has a record of making shocking but unfounded assertions – ANA MARIA LUCA, May 7, 2013
 * US casts doubt on claim Syrian rebels may have used sarin gas – Luke Harding, Harriet Sherwood, Dan Roberts, The Guardian, Monday 6 May 2013

Del Ponte's Brand of "Irresponsible"
Okay, I know nothing about Mrs. Del Ponte. I read Now's piece, thanks Petri: "Irresonsible Statements." First, she's made to sound like maybe she is as independent and odd as they say here, and it's a good thing she's in there. If there was to be a whistle-blower it would be someone like that. Helps a little with the "independent" problem you get when the thing is headed by Karen Koning AbuZayd of the Washington MEPC, cherry picking which "evidence" is true. Next, even the UN is not saying there is no such testimony, just no total proof, no firm conclusion, no further comment. Sounds like she's right. And as for these irresponsible statements in the past, they may have a case in one case, I think the only case cited:
 * In terms of media statements, del Ponte has always liked to shock, despite the fact that many of her interviews to the press have proved damaging to her cases. ... In her memoirs published in 2008 she accused Kosovo’s separatist militia leaders of trafficking organs collected from kidnapped Serbs. Her investigation into the matter had proved inconclusive and the accused had been acquitted. And many journalists who covered Kosovo say that one of the reasons evidence was never found was because del Ponte revealed information to the press. Several witnesses who claimed they knew about the organ trafficking network were shot dead.

So, in other words, she irresponsibly reveals horrible bits of truth. Did she publicize identifying details of the witnesses who were killed, or is that sloppy correlation? Is the problem here that rebels will kill the whistle-blowers if anyone hears their sarin whistle? Or is it, as so may are arguing, that she's just making it up this time? Luca's warning: "Her statement on Syria made headlines, but also perhaps led to more victims." By harming the responsibly-managed image of Syria's rebels as people fit to send weapons to, you harm the people of Syria they fight to liberate from the regime they blamed for every gas attack. IE it screws up the trick. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:53, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Left a comment to similar effect there. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:08, 8 May 2013 (UTC)