User talk:Tornt

Welcome, tornt, and thanks for speaking up right away and being here for the right reasons. Feel free to bring your points right to the relevant talk page(s). --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:41, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Caustic. It will probably take me a little while to warm up, but I'll get there. Tornt (talk) 03:45, 15 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh, and if you want to talk to a member, you can say so on their user talk page and they'll get an e-mail. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:18, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

(y) thumbs up!

iQuit
I'm leaving sorry .... and I haven't even posted anything! Financial pressures. Thank you for having accepted me as a member. Tornt (talk) 22:15, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Well I WAS here, and a great bunch of people they are. I fear my days of saving the world are over though. I'm tired, and there is much to do just to stay alive. Best wishes to the team Tornt (talk) 22:25, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi, that's a sad-sounding message. Hug. I get the lack of time, it's one way "they" keep us down. Good news, you had X time to type that. Might be half the time it takes to add something. If you ever get X2, ... well, you're on the team anyway, honorary, just car caring enough to start. :) --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:53, 26 July 2015 (UTC)


 * BTW on what you had here, I was waiting for more before I read carefully, sorry. The point about audio on the SBU intercept videos was interesting - I didn't notice a switch from mono to stereo. But this one does. Might mean nothing though - sometimes they mix 2 mono sources, like phone calls, in stereo just to separate, as here - one voice per speaker. Might just use that in one segment and not another. It could mean something more, but not that I can think of ATM. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:02, 26 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Hey, Tornt, sorry, I totally missed your signing up and introduction. We are a small bunch here and the chance that there will be no direct reaction to one's input is considerable. There's absolutely no pressure to contribute once you've established yourself as a human, not a zombie, though. So no need to iQuit. Maybe you'll have an inspiration to contribute at a later time. Will be appreciated. All the best to you! --CE (talk) 21:25, 31 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I moved the talk from your user page to the talk page (and gave it the headline "iQuit"). Should you come back one day and want your introduction to be restored, just say so or do it yourself if you figured out how. :o) --CE (talk) 21:35, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Sounds Of The Aleppo Aid Convoy Strike - September 2016

 * Hi everyone. I was just passing though and had the irresistable urge to post my thoughts on a recent event. Surprised to find my old account still open!


 * It worries me that there are a lot of claims about the Aleppo convoy strike, but there is not much in the way of evidence. It is difficult to assess the alleged barrel bomb fragment from the video, but the OFAB tailfin is definitely suspect. If the bomb did not explode, it would likely remain intact. If it did explode, the contents of the room would have been reduced to confetti. Witness statements seem to be confused. There is talk of rockets, missiles, barrel bombs, cluster bombs and possible aircraft cannon fire. About the only thing that is not mentioned is the use of high-explosive fragmentation bombs like the OFAB. Like the Russians, I see little evidence of the craters one would expect such bombs to leave.


 * I'm no expert in these things, but the footage that purports to be of the actual attack looks and sounds to me like a rocket or missile strike. This becomes more evident if the sound track is moved forward so the sound of the explosions coincides with the images of the explosions. One hears a rushing sound then "bang". The rushing sound stops. Two clear explosions are seen. Right at the beginning, there is something that looks like a fuel explosion. Near the end of the Aleppo 24 footage on facebook (released later) is another explosion. Somebody suggested it might be a Hellfire missile explosion, but I can't say I have found any pictures or videos to confirm that. one can, I think, hear the sound of jet aircraft overhead. Their presence does not seem to be accompanied by an increase in the number or size of the recorded explosions.


 * I'll leave you with a couple of video links. One is just stock footage of an Iskander launch and strike. This is just so you can hear what an exploding missile sounds like. I am not suggesting that Iskander missiles were involved in any way. (Indeed, from the size of the crater, I think somebody might have noticed something was amiss.) The other video is one that combines the footage released soon after the attack with the footage released some time later (they are contiguous). The sound track has been time shifted to match the "flash" and "bang" somewhat, and I think it gives an idea of what is happening. What the pops and sparkles in the later part of the video are, I don't know.


 * Iskander video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uuTkhwbGZw


 * Aleppo convoy strike video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI2cJJhQxyE


 * Thanks. Tornt (talk) 20:08, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Tornt thanks for this we have looked at the videos ( night-time here), and discussed in some length here. There is no final conclusion and most likely remaining options are hellfire cannon or a modern munition, most likely an air to surface missile. It is unlikely an Iskander, too big, and such powerful launch, and the crater, would be detected; but a modern well designed surface to air missile is indeed a possibility. Thanks for you input! --Resup (talk) 20:47, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Yay! Thanks for looking. That IS a good discussion. Perhaps one day we will know the answers to our questions. Tornt (talk) 00:18, 9 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi! Welcome back. The audio is offest isn't it? And I wondered about those jet sounds, wish I could just say it is or isn't right. But it does seem to stop at the blasts. At 0:40, the sound seems to carry after the blast, but it sounds like reverberation trailing off. Hm. --Caustic Logic (talk) 01:01, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Just had to compare this to Saudi airstrike on the funeral in Yemen yesterday (Facebook video and see Sanaa funeral hall attack). When the second missile is fired, you can hear the jet come in and continue afterwards. It does get louder as the missile comes in (combined noise) and then as the blast fades it seem to turn and depart, but it's a clear  continued roar, I think, not reverb. --Caustic Logic (talk) 01:50, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Caustic! Thanks for the welcome.It seems that in the earlier Aleppo24 footage (with the ambulance scene inserted) there isn't a jet to be heard. It is only in the later footage we hear passing jets. The rockets seem to strike whether the jets are there or not - which suggests to me, they might be land-launched rockets - or missiles rather. The strike seems to be too accurate for something like a Grad or Smerch. A Tochka might do the job, but the popular view is that only the Russians and the regime have Tochka missiles. I don't see either of them having a motive to attack an aid convoy. Could the rebels have attacked the convoy? I think they have the motive, but limited means. TOW missiles might account for the trucks, but they don't seem prone to creating fireballs with sparkling fallout. A better bet, might be the 9M14 Malyutka (AT-3 Sagger). According to Wikipedia, the 9M14-2F carries a 3.0 kg thermobaric warhead for use against troops and soft vehicles. Ideal for the trucks, but I don't know that any anti-tank weapon is going to destroy a building.

The sound track of the Sanaa Funeral strike does seem a bit odd. Just to the ear, it could be an extraordinarily long explosion, but looking at it in Audacity I'm inclined to think it is rocket noise. The rocket engine, however, should have been destroyed in the explosion. How can it continue after? One could speculate on a second rocket, or something that sounds like a rocket but isn't, but my guess would be bad editing.

Oh yes. My guess would be that the lag between explosion and sound in the Aleppo24 footage is natural. At a thousand metres from the impact, it would take about two seconds for the sound to reach us. I shifted it forward to suit our Hollywood-trained expectations. Tornt (talk) 00:00, 14 October 2016

Samaa video fixed :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw2njQOaPiU   Tornt (talk) 19:29, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

After listening to dozens of video clips of aircraft cannon fire, I haven't heard one that sounds like the "boop, boop" in the video. I'm beginning to wonder if the entire video is not a fake and nothing to do with the SARC convoy destruction. Just as a matter of interest, I was looking at the discussion on whether a hell cannon might have been used on the convoy. We use Ammonium Nitrate - Fuel Oil explosive (ANFO) where I live in mining. I've never seen or heard of it exploding slowly. Generally, it explodes or it doesn't explode, but it might be different used by amateurs in a hell cannon Tornt (talk) 15:42, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, have not really thought on sounds, maybe others did. A suggestion would be, to keep/post links and time stamps of what you listened to, so that (1) others can listen to exactly the same thing, if they want, and so may communicate about it too (2) eventually it may be possible to extract those sounds and plot/analyse/compare them --though it may be cumbersome to just extract; and even more difficult to make some sense of it. But in the meantime it may be a small library of known weapons sounds, for suspected fakes to be compared against (PS this and this  claim to convert video to MP3 , and MP3 can be extracted to a signal by software --though I have not tried to do either of that, or seriously tried to make sense of such signals)  --Resup (talk) 17:49, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Resup. I've been using the Convert2mp3 site for some time, and using Audacity to look at and edit files. The propagandists are getting better at what they do. I keep the links in case others want to know where things are, though one never knows if they are going to be deleted. Still haven't found anything, fake or real, that has the "horn-like" sound in the (purported) video of the attack on the aid convoy. Certainly doesn't sound like the Gsh-6-30 which is big brother to the Gsh-6-23 used in the Su 24. External link; http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9cc_1295667231 Tornt (talk) 16:06, 28 November 2016 (UTC)