Category talk:Ukraine

Right Sector
Via Moon of Alabama:

''The Right Sektor is just storming the parliament in Kiev. They demand the head of the interior minister who's troops killed their comrade. Live video here


 * http://www.ustream.tv/channel/kutiepov13

Satellite photos
Something to investigate:
 * NATO’s Russian troop build-up satellite images ‘show 2013 drills’ – April 10, 2014

Another: Regarding images of Russia shelling across the border - this guy says one image anyway (claiming to prove a lack of Ukrainian forces in a certain area?) is taken right from some fake satellite imagery used in a video game. (Or, was it not really fake but just stock Ukrainian imagery? In context, that would be fake too) (Or, is this one of those modern games where users can insert their own images/can it be shown to be there prior to the recent use by Kiev?( (or, is Parubiy a known player of this game? Etc.) The compared images do seem to bear out the total image match, whatever it means. Worth checking into. Someone else published the info first - on-screen text would help track down who, where, how. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:11, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * BUSTED! Kiev's U.S. 'Satellite Images' of Ukraine Are From A 'Video Game'! (Youtube "video")


 * I have retweeted on July 25 a tweet containing the original video, a rather failed attempt to match it to Russian satellite data and the rather plausible debunk claiming the factory shown is some generic piece of infrastructure from a simulator. It's supposed to show the BUK launch. --CE (talk) 12:40, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay - that's the same generic image/texture, but it's not clear from that Kiev forge this. It's ridiculous. It's "no comment," no description, posted July 24 by "Lincoln Staarka" AJSR says Kiev/US did forge this, but I need to see them promoting it before I believe they did (saved anyway, pending...). Generic texture or not, that's so obviously fake! A still image panned over ("Ken Burns effect") with a smoke trail animation - as if satellite just hover and pan over an area like a surveillance camera. Did they really? The other guy, again. made it sound like a different later situation, not the Buk launch, and a still image with no stupid animated smoke trail, I thought...) --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:20, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * (Quick) Checking Youtube for any posting of this fake video in support of either story yields nothing. Ukrainian or English, the cross-border shelling images are different, and I see no videos claiming to be satellite footage of the MH17 launch. I see nothing yet against calling this a hoax. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:41, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmm, when I've seen it the YT video had a description. I think ASJB's claim is of "double fakery" or how do you call it, reverse psychology or so? In the second tweet trying the match there is a comment with a link that goes to what might be the original upload, and I think the description is the same the youtube video had. "Banderas got caught this time exactly." etc. And AJSB thinks it's just produced to keep the Buk myth alive. Or something. Was in a hurry when I posted the three tweets and now see that your video treats the material in a different context. Apparently BS-recycling... btw, as to shelling the border - the OSCE observers observed that on Sunday ... from Ukraine to Russia. *grin* --CE (talk) 17:52, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, that's closer. That's the video, also July 25, title translates "Ogoni ZRK 'Buk' by airplane, Ukraine streamrip.17.07.mp4" Airplane, not satellite? Description:
 * Foreign weather satellite recorded the moment of the complex "Beech" in the infrared. Bandera caught this time specifically. White field, because shooting is done in the thermal range and, accordingly, dark soil is strongly heated. For this reason, the cooling is fast disappearing from the rocket trail. No need to argue, than survey was conducted, it is possible to land remote sensing satellite or high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft - it does not matter now and early to reveal sources. Video is published to those who need to know - control is maintained, videos - there. Perezalivat, because the original is permanently removed, it is also reuploaded.

Comments: skeptical to dismissive - the word fake appears a few times. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:11, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Slavyansk: Something coming up?
-- Petri Krohn (talk) 09:09, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Украина попытается выдать убитых карателями за "жертв террористов" (Ukraine try to pass punitive killed for "victims of terrorists") – Novorossiya, July 07

BREAKING: 8 unknow bodies found near morgue. All the usual allegations. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 10:53, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Human Rights Watch: Mass grave found in Ukraine – CNN / Anderson Cooper 360, July 24, 2014

American Kulak said... Also this, from a fanatically pro-Kiev anti-Russia source:
 * Did Strelkov's Men Really Execute 14 People in Slovyiansk?

GRAD fire from Russia?

 * ''Moved to GRAD fire from Russia?

Crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17

 * ''Moved to Crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17

Slavyansk crucifixion

 * Part I: Investigating the Slavyansk Crucifixion
 * Part II: Investigating the Slavyansk Crucifixion – GLEB BAZOV, AUGUST 9, 2014


 * Thanks, Petri - interesting story I didn't know yet. I read part 1, but it loaded so slow I'll wait for part 2. It's commendable work, and I can see both sides. I wouldn't rule out that such a thing is possible - nailing a toddler to a bulletin board and cutting him to death in front of everyone, then dragging his mother behind a tank a few km. But ... as I've said for other stories, it has a high propaganda-to-plausibility ratio. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:33, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


 * One detail I decided to consider is the "bulletin board" the alleged witness cited, and another video tried to disprove. (sorry, names and links not handy) He pans around the square to show there is no bulletin board, before getting people to say that never happened (but then, "what else can they say?") But ... if she's an acknowledged local who would know if there was or wasn't one, and making a non-existent object so central to one's story would be dumb. For good measure I checked Google Maps and various photos, just to see if maybe there had been one now gone for that video. That would be chilling, but no clear luck. There are other areas it could be, under a tree or off to one side, not necessairly taking a central spot. In fact, it wouldn't. The gazebo is new but not new enough to be the infamous billboard's replacement. It'sthere on July 9.and in 2012, Google Earth view (but not 2010) FWIW:

The best guess for such a bulletin board could be this by the fountain:
 * general view
 * July 9 - Lenin's pedestal is a bulletin board, not nail-able
 * view 1
 * view 2 --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:33, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Mass Grave

 * Mass grave in E. Ukraine: Terrorist torture or power cut-off in morgue? RT, July 26, 2014
 * The grave exhumation started on Thursday, conducted by authorities loyal to Kiev. They discovered 14 bodies - one of them female and the rest male, according to media reports.
 * Local residents told Human Rights Watch activist, Yulia Gorbunova, they had witnessed the exhumation of the grave on June 11. The city was in control of the militia at the time.
 * Bodies wrapped in cellophane were brought in by a truck in two runs and dumped in the grave, the witnesses said. Later in the day, the militias brought in two priests to the grave to conduct a burial prayer at it.
 * “We don’t really know who the people in this grave are and what happened to them. What is important is that there is an investigation,” Ole Solvang, researcher and security adviser for Human Rights Watch, told RT.
 * But Ukrainian officials didn’t even wait for the exhumation before saying the grave would produce evidence of atrocities committed by the militias.
 * “I met a police team of criminal investigators in Slavyansk. They discovered a grave of Slavyansk civilians tortured to death by the terrorists. There are dozens of them. They were cut and burned alive,” media presidential aide Yury Lutsenko said.

Undeniable Abuses
This is another in a tradition of HRW essentially telling allied militants "don't be so blatant and open with your abuses. Keep them off camera, blame the other side, make it as awful as you want, and we'll find a way to believe you." The above (Mass Grave) might argue against that, but only time will tell if they ever really try to solve that or leave it at "murky," meaning they'd rather not say. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:09, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Abductions, lawlessness: Amnesty International slams pro-Kiev ‘vigilantes’ RT, AUgust 7. 2014


 * To be fair, that's AI who are, while also not unproblematic, still far more credible than that joke HRW. That report about the mad scumbag Lyashko is useful and they have put some pressure on the "authorities" to stop him. Meanwhile, HRW's latest piece is the usual outrageous crap. Headline: Ukraine: Insurgents Disrupt Medical Services Ambulance used to transport fighters, some HRW guy has seen. etc. And then in some random paragraph:
 * Human Rights Watch has also documented attacks on hospitals by explosive weapons that killed at least two medical staff. While the circumstances suggest Ukrainian armed forces launched some of these attacks, further investigation is needed to determine responsibility.
 * We will never know... and it's Putin's fault! ;o) --CE (talk) 12:33, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * oops, typing from memory w/o review. Thanks. Agreed on the differentiation (not to put too much weight on it - both are pretty dubious). This means HRW has not that I've seen called out Lyashko (sp?) and allies like that for undeniable abuses, while scrambling for crimes to pin on the other side. That adds some to the record. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:52, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Jailbreaker Rocket Attack

 * Ukraine Rocket Attack Leads to Mass Jail Breakout AP, August 11
 * Rockets slammed into a high-security prison Monday in the rebel-held city of Donetsk, igniting a riot that allowed more than 100 prisoners to flee, authorities in eastern Ukraine said.


 * Donetsk city council spokesman Maxim Rovinsky said a direct rocket hit killed at least one inmate and left three others severely wounded. In the chaos, he said 106 prisoners escaped, included some jailed for murder, robbery and rape.

...
 * The prison break became possible after a substation providing the building with electricity was damaged, disabling the facility's alarm system.


 * "Extremely dangerous prisoners are now free. It is hard to know the extent of threat this poses to the city, which is flooded with weapons," Rovinsky said.

Will Kiev proudly claim it freed political prisoners, or will it blame "Russians" for re-infecting Donetsk with its own most vile criminals? --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:43, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Claims the FSB plans to assassinate Donetsk Peoples' Republic leaders as soon as their usefulness is through (ie when Kiev's forces win) --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:46, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * http://20committee.com/2014/08/07/latest-ukrainian-intelligence-news/