File talk:Pilot seat 2.jpg

This piece might be important and might deserve a discussion. Is this the underside, I presume? Resup, can you copy over any relevant info provided with this, so we can see what it says? --Caustic Logic (talk) 01:12, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Not sure what's the story, just noticed photos posted at random discussions; this is likely the initial source. Comments seen was that there was somebody located nearby and providing more photos--no idea on identity of the person. --Resup (talk) 01:30, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay that helps, thanks. No shortcut to an explanation, but the scene is familiar. General flight deck pile, as accepted, near that church in the sunflower field. This could be a seat base, probably has been looked at already (I'm behind on that). I don't see how it should go or what it says. First guess would be what everything else says. Haven't even looked close at this yet ...--Caustic Logic (talk) 10:40, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Whatever it means, projectile movement here is away from the camera - the two dents are inward, the square hole, also punched in, no edges out. That looks pretty big - maybe un-separated shrapnel blocks? This looks actually like a top surface to me, the belt mechanism (to adjust or level the cabin floor?) would best be tucked below. If so, that means down through the cabin floor at a steep angle. The three smaller holes, direction here more "down" from above (so from left or right, whichever). 90 degree difference between those planes, both punched - all probably at the same angle. Not quite 45 degrees, it was more down (through floor) than forward (through the strut) - those holes look more oblique to me. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:54, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Maybe worthwhile to try to figure where is front and back of the seat, and is it left seat or right seat. With projectile direction, it's hard to know--it will look about the same entry or exit; gentle bend may be created by something else, but paint or rust chip is more likely if fragment is moving towards us. (Chipping may be discussed externally somewhere, but unsure where to look). Also, the hole which is the first below the marked one appears to be by fragment towards us --a lot of peeling stuff seems to face us
 * pilot seats photo --Resup (talk) 11:16, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Looking at other photos on the album, a lowly placed box and belt drums are on the back of the seat, so we are facing seat front in the photo.   --Resup (talk) 11:29, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * maybe worthwhile to look at all photos-the ones I uploaded may be not the best. Like what's going on here? Looks like from the back and down?--Resup (talk) 12:12, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

He got several albums; our photo is here. There is a photo from the back--I am not sure are those the same seats, and which photos show the same thing. Overall impression for now seems to be that fragments enter from the back. There seems to be 4 seats in total -video, there are 2 more seats at the back wall. Those are at random shown on various photos; and entry/exit holes not very different; which makes things confusing enough --Resup (talk) 13:17, 26 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Okay, sorry ... this whole thing is smaller than it looked, and I had it sideways, running under both seats. Handy measure throughout. The big hole is about 1cm by 2cm, other holes about 1 cm or a bit less by up to 2. So this is seat-back sized. The belt mechanism is for the seat belt shoulder straps, best tucked in the back. The pivoting thing at the bottom is the left arm rest. I guess then the side we see is the seat front, like you say, and up is up. Big hole might have gone over the shoulder, or through, others through the left side obliquely. Can't say yet which seat, but pilot's or co-pilots (jump seats, I think they call them, behind have no structure really). Not sure if the wooly seat remains are attached right but seems on the right side (front). I still see the projectile direction as in, so from ahead and to the (pilot's) left with only slight downward angle. About like other damage shows. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:43, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Such straight-through hole will look about the same from both sides, but exit ones are bigger-more chipping-more cone shapes. The best will be to compare views from front and back for the same hole. Could not confidently match photos so far. Two nearby holes, on top-left panel, seem to have lots of chipping or cone shape suggesting exit. Also here it has to be from the back-- to have  it from the front it needs to come from below the floor up, and pass through reinforced front and the floor first. I think we know it was above the floor level-this may be in preliminary report. It is punching right through, gentle bending is likely unrelated to this, and no soft bending elsewhere. Exit/entry illustration  --Resup (talk) 01:39, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

More entry-exit illustration. (Do not see good ones for metal. It is quite complicated; bending may appear or not at all; as slow motion videos illustrate ). Video of entry and exit holes on plane fuselage; we are first shown entry (smaller), than exit (bigger and rougher) --Resup (talk) 02:35, 27 July 2015 (UTC)