Talk:Smerch attack on Ukraine tank base in Pobeda

Rebels fire Smerch at Pobjeda?


Russia strikes - Ukrainian punishers strike - Israel strikes?

September 4th
Lindsey Hilsum @lindseyhilsum tweets on September 4
 * ''Rocket strike on #Ukrainian position this morning 25k fm border nr #Luhansk. Soldiers say #Russians attacked.
 * ''#Ukrainian armour abandoned after what soldiers say was #Russian rocket strike. #Luhansk area.
 * ''#Ukrainian soldiers say their sleeping area in position near #Luhansk hit by #Russian Smerch rockets overnight.
 * ''#Ukrainian military vehicles abandoning camp near Starobilsk, in face of what they say are rockets fired fm #Russia.
 * ''Another #Ukrainian military vehicle pulling back from camp west of #Luhansk.
 * ''#Ukrainian tanks, APCs and military trucks pulling back along road from #novaidar in face of what soldiers say are Russian Smerch attacks.
 * ''#Russia apparently attacking #Ukraine on several fronts, IS rampaging across #Syria & #Iraq, so #Obama has to visit a primary school? Why?
 * ''The journey up here to the #Luhansk area showed me what war is like for ordinary #Ukrainians. http://blogs.channel4.com/lindsey-hilsum-on-international-affairs/ukraine-journey/4377
 * ''Tonight @Channel4News I'm reporting from near #Luhansk as #Ukrainian forces retreat. What use #NATO promises of training and equipment?
 * ''#Ukrainian soldiers retreating from #Luhansk area: tell #NATO that #Putin won't stop at #Ukraine, just as Hitler didn't stop at Poland.
 * ''Ammunition store at #Ukrainian position, hit by #Russian rocket overnight a/c soldiers, still on fire this morning. pic.twitter.com/WthgoFZd5x
 * ''Our eyewitness report of #Ukrainian army retreat n of #Luhansk after rocket attacks apparently fm #Russia. bit.ly/1qh4ctz #c4news



Lindsey Hilsum tweets on September 4 this photo of abandoned T-64 Bulat tanks near Lugansk, saying it shows Ukrainian armour abandoned after what soldiers say was Russian rocket strike. Luhansk area.

Location
It seems that the location is the village of Pobjeda between Novoaidar and Starobilsk, some 30 km north of the front lines in Shchastya.

Oliver Carroll tweets on Sept 14th:
 * ''Village of Pobeda [victory] becomes Beda [woe], apt transformation given destruction of Ukr military base here Sep 1-3
 * ''Pobeda - ex-operational HQ of Ukr ATO forces (North), now reduced to ashes and rubble. Smerch, grad came from Luhansk.
 * The photo shows what seems to be the discarded rocket engine of a BM-30 Smerch MRLS rocket. More photos are posted from Dimitrivka some 7 km to the south
 * ''Dmitrevka - camp and artillery positions of Ukr amy destroyed over 3/4 September. Estimated 50-200 soldiers killed
 * ''On way out of Dmitrievka, Luhansk reg. Judging from gap in trees, missile seems to hv hit tank fm Luhansk direction
 * ''Clarification: missiles came very approximately fm S- SSE dir, i.e. Luhansk / E of Luhansk. Unclear fm Russia/ rebel territory

The Novorossiyan armed forces were not known to have any captured Smerch launcers on September 3rd. They reported capturing some later in the week. The rockets could be the smaller BM-27 Uragan that NAF claim to poses, but photos seem to show a 300 mm diameter rocket.

Was the Smerch fired from Russia, some 30 km away? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:25, 15 September 2014 (UTC)


 * It's hard to tell what happened from the photo provided, just the photo is not inconsistent with abandoned armor, for example. Cluster anti-armor Smerch missile can engage 5 targets, (and probably destroy 5 light tanks from atop in favorable conditions e.g. tanks moving in a formation or some other good fortune).


 * Better against tanks are shaped charge type munitions, and there is one warhead version with 646 shaped charge sub-munitions; but those need a direct hit. Likely they are not self-guided, with such large number of them. So this may need a fairly tight formation to work well.


 * But there are other weapons, and an old tank may be destroyed by an old RPG. --Resup (talk) 00:49, 15 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Look at the Twitter links I provided. For comparison here and here is a Smerch. Also note this photo of the vehicle that got a "close shave." -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:03, 15 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, stop sign photo on twitter looks like either Smerch or Uragan. The car looks just burned, + possibly some shrapnel. BMP -unclear, and it was messed up with later, e.g. tracks are missing, they should not just evaporate. --Resup (talk) 01:35, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Some more photos of the destruction in Pobeda. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:38, 15 September 2014 (UTC)



ATO map from 4 September 2014 shows rocket artillery hitting Pobeda.

Reports

 * According to rebels, 27 (rocket)-artillery regiment from Suma was destroyed near Pobeda in the past; than it became a new UAF base, with some fighting reported on 14.09.2014. Now, I do not know details on 27 regiment destruction, neither details nor date, but it appears that in the past 27 regiment from Suma had Uragans (0:35 on video appears to be Uragan; this is a bit smaller than Smerch but otherwise similar). ---That is 2012 recording, in Ukrainian.  --Resup (talk) 02:30, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Ukrainian report about a soldier from 9 battery, Suma rocket Regiment who was burned on 3 September and died 10 September. Report says they were 'hit by Smerch fire'. Well, at least not shaped-charge fire from his condition. And there is some evidence that the Regiment may have Uragans (or Smerchs) itself.--Resup (talk) 02:42, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Rebels report  artillery strikes  on 4 September in that area. (It is conceivable  that rocket strikes will be called (rocket)-artillery strikes, similar to UAF 27 Regiment description).
 * 04.09.2014 - 9:48 Rebel report night of 3-4 September Based on the intelligence data, artillery of the Army Southeast applied fire raids on enemy reserves near the village Pobeda and near Dmitrovka. Five armored vehicles, twelve trucks with ammunition and fuel, and up to thirty-five personnel  were destroyed.
 * 04.09.2014 - 20:11 Rebel report on 4 September. As a result of the application of artillery strikes in the areas of punishers positions near the  settlements Pobeda and Dmitrovka, the following were destroyed: tactical missile complex "Tochka-U", up  to nine tanks, 14 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers of fourteen BMP and BTR, thirty trucks. Losses in the occupiers manpower  were more than sixty men killed and wounded. --Resup (talk) 06:16, 15 September 2014 (UTC)