File talk:Abdullah Tayseer CMaalouf IDComp.png

Maalouf card Source and context - a hoax?:

Photo is shown here, only after Abdullah story,m and in the same article. http://janoubia.com/2016/07/21/%d9%82%d8%b5%d8%a9-%d8%a7%d9%84%d9%85%d8%b0%d8%a8%d9%88%d8%ad-%d9%81%d9%8a-%d8%ad%d9%84%d8%a8-%d9%84%d9%86-%d8%aa%d8%ba%d9%81%d8%b1%d9%87%d8%a7-%d9%81%d8%a8%d8%b1%d9%83%d8%a7%d8%aa-%d8%a7%d9%84%d9%82/

إلا أنّها بطاقة لا مصداقية حقيقية لها فأيّ كان يمكن له أن يفبركها، وهذا ما شهدته مواقع التواصل الاجتماعي إذ تمّ إعداد بطاقتين في معرض المزاح لكل من الإعلامية كارول معلوف والفنان راغب علامة.

Auto-translate:But it is a real card does not have the credibility Which could not have been Afberkha, and this is seen as social networking sites have been set up two cards in the gallery kidding each of media and artist Carol Maalouf Ragheb Alama.

Maalouf is also hated for her comments about the boy - basically good riddance, beheading is as good as shooting, hope he goes to hell https://twitter.com/walid970721/status/756565695719174144 She was getting death threats back in February over something else http://janoubia.com/2016/02/11/%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D9%83%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%88%D9%84-%D9%85%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%88%D9%81-%D8%AA%D9%86%D8%B4%D8%B1-%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%8B-%D8%AA%D9%84%D9%82%D8%AA/

Is this then a joke saying it should have been her, etc. ? --Caustic Logic (talk) 02:10, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes definitely a hoax, Maalouf on twitter was sympathetic to the beheaders and wanted to justify their actions so she posted that fake ID, a Lebanese girl then took that ID and photoshoped Maalouf picture on it just to prove how silly it was of Maalouf to post such a forgery. And it became a laugh on local timelines.
 * TogetherSy (talk) 04:21, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Versions of story itself, BBC, MoA.
 * ''an independent judicial commission had been appointed to investigate the incident
 * but what law this "judicial commission" is going to apply? Geneva conventions? According to wiki Syria ratified GC I-IV, but it is not certain it applies to rebel-held areas -do they still follow GC at all? Sharia? One might be baligh (adult) at the age of 12, and for adults, there are different opinions as to what applies. --Resup (talk) 06:36, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Syria (SAR) also adopted AP1, if this is followed, no death penalty before the age of 18 --Resup (talk) 06:55, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

ID seems fake, there would not be ink stamp visible from under the photograph, unless there is ink on top of the photograph (but there is not) --Resup (talk) 07:34, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks, TS, Resup. I was just confused, thinking it was supposed to be more. But it was just to say "see, I can put any photo on here," not even a hoax. And as Resup notes, that seems to be done with Abdullah (half-stamp means photo placed after it was stamped, over a different photo). This wasn't my best day. --Caustic Logic (talk) 15:13, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The boy has obvious facial features of transfusion-dependent thalassemia (caused by expansion of the bone marrow) and appears to be receiving an infusion of an iron-chelating agent (to remove the excess iron that results from transfusion). The opposition's explanation that a 19-year old looks like a 10-year old because thalassemia has stunted his growth is implausible - thalassemia typically reduces adult height only by a few centimetres.  Pmr9 (talk) 21:11, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I didn't quite buy it, but some said just that. "said to be suffering from thalassemia, which led to a growth defect that made him appear to be a child." 19-year-old NDF fighter, "Shabih," by this. They named the disease, but ... age lying could be added for those who consider 18 adult. OK. named Abdullah Issa, from Alawite village Wadi al-Dahab, Homs. And that makes sense, for a victim of Islamist beheading. Al-Araby. Rebels would not be doing such a procedure, so he was probably taken from the hospital. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:51, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Correlating Claims
Age:
 * "This boy, whose [beheading] has caught the world's attention is my cousin Abdullah Issa from Wadi al-Dahab district of Homs, and he suffers from thalassemia," his alleged cousin - Loly Alamora ["Loly the cutie"] - wrote on her Facebook page. "That is why he appears younger than his age, but he is 19-years-old." (al-Araby.co)

I propose age and the flawed medical claim are the only things wrong with that. Others say he's 14, and lied to get the ID, which independently seems fake/altered, so ... that's probably best ignored. As Pmr9 notes above, this condition won't likely make him look small or young. He looks 11-14, is said to be 14, and said to be 19. I propose: the cousin meant fighting age + a year. Outsiders might not get that the age is 13 in some cultures, so she translates it to 18 before adding the one. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:02, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The Syrian government is cited as describing him as 12, and taken under circumstances that seem most likely to be accurate. 12 is a credible claim. Also, a PLO statement saying he was Palestinian gives an age of 12. Visibly, it's plausible, but I'd say he looks 13-14. I'll have to say 12-14. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:03, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Name: Abdullah Issa is given by the cousin Lolly, and by the PLO, and Abullah Tayseer is given as a name by Ehsani2. I looked for Homs deaths in the VDC for each name. Several people of Issa/Eissa families have died, and it appears as a first and middle name as well. But Tayseer appears 21 times, only used as a first or middle name here. So I propose: Abdullah Tayseer Issa. (note: he's not listed by VDC yet, but will be under regime fatalities, probably as adult, killed by shooting, when they get it updated.) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:02, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Fighting claims: Ostensible sister: "How can they turn a brave Syrian fighter into a Palestinian refugee?" she claimed." She lists where he fought (Palmyra, Jebel Shaar, T4 airport, Hama and Homs). "He would spend month-long deployments on the front-lines before returning home for medical treatment." (Al-Araby) Role in the fighting: unclear. He's got pictures in uniform with guns, but that's always arguable as proof in court. captured fighting is presumed, but he could be a drummer boy or kitchen help for all we know. He was apparently snatched at or near the hospital, not the battlefield. "The Syrian regime had earlier claimed that Issa was a 12-year-old Palestinian civilian who was on his way to hospital for treatment when he was picked up by militants from the Harakat Nour al-Din al-Zinki rebel group." (Al-Araby) As Pmr9 notes, he's just had or was getting "an infusion of an iron-chelating agent (to remove the excess iron that results from transfusion)." That's where it's done, a hospital. It's probably not rebel treatment after they shot him in self defense and captured him. Nor was he on his way, but abducted from the hospital, or after - help of insiders is possible - area and access situation unclear. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:02, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Picture with guns, you mean this? Also with clouds and (who's that?)- Assad the senior? Unclear what is this photo, maybe his head placed into photo studio decorations, than photoshoped a bit to smooth up, or just  photoshoped to begin with. I mean it has to be to get Assad in at least, and maybe (or may be not) the weapon too. Just him, and the rest is studio background? Could be, too, in any case, this is staged or altered photo --Resup (talk) 10:53, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Another photo version. Walking over sunset. Google brings here, unsure why. --Resup (talk) 11:08, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I meant the al-Araby piece says that (should have quoted), and it also shows the one photoshopped image, but I presumed there were others. Maybe, maybe not. Thanks for that. That's a martyr tribute poster, with Hafez, backed by heaven. This is good enough to show he did stand in uniform with a gun at least once (could be faked, but quite well if so - lighting is all consistent). We've seen Islamist "activists" argue in court this kind of thing is just for show. We doubt that, usually, but here... a sort of camp kid could easily be given photo ops like this, him more than most, from his age and illness. He was probably liked, and protected by the older fighters. If he did much shooting, it was probably the safe, back-up stuff, where you aren't likely to be captured. That would be a PR issue for the NDF or whoever, recruiting 13-14 year-olds (but clearly wins over beheading 13-14yos with knives!) ... And he may have done no fighting, just helping and posing. --Caustic Logic (talk) 03:00, 26 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Also, I forgot to include the claim he was a spy for al-Quds. Accused spies are usually civilian in appearance and in reality, not fighters. So the rebels who killed him say he wasn't a fighter, for what it's worth. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:03, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Palestinian claims: "Abdullah was Palestinian and not Syrian. He had accompanied a group of fighters to Handarat." (Ehsani2) I guess it was Palestinian fighters, and he was presumed one of them. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:02, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * That also says "The Zanki group that beheaded Abdullah Tayseer claimed that he was working for the Quds brigade, which is true," and he was captured "as the fighting intensified" and treated by the rebels, which is apparently untrue. Is the rest of this any good? According to a PLO statement, the "al-Quds Brigades" the boy was accused of spying for, is "a Palestinian group fighting with the government forces," but "According to media sources, Al-Quds Brigades denied that Issa was one of its fighters."  (Ehsani2) "The Palestine Liberation Organization’s Executive Committee, on Thursday, condemned the heinous murder of 12-year-old Abdullah Issa, a Palestinian refugee in Syria..." recent or life-long refugee? The latter would make him Syrian, not "not Syrian." Right?


 * Palestinian killed in Ramallah claims: Miri Wood at Syrianews.cc Shows close-ups of Abdulla and broader scenes including the fighters but with Abdullah's face bluured, claiming a mismatch (fighter inclusion fake), because of a face-shot of another boy - killed the day before in the West bank by IDF rubber bullet - is taken as a match (different eyebrows and face all around, but similar-looking crooked-teeth issues). Stills with Abdullah's face are captioned "Mohiyeh Tabbakhi, 12." It was published as a replacement for a deleted post falling for the hoax and reporting a child's beheading in Syria. Which... the video still shows (doesn't it?) and still seems the main issue to me. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:45, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps based on my tip-off, in a deleted Facebook post, the replacement article is now also deleted, and I think we can call the issue easily debunked. Also, FWIW, my two articles at SyriaNews.cc are long-gone. Lots of empty pages there, good stuff and bad. Pretty erratic. --Caustic Logic (talk) 02:45, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Homs claims: "from Wadi al-Dahab district of Homs" or "Other social media users said he was from the Alawite village of Wadi al-Dahab in Homs, and photos emerged allegedly showing his funeral in the area." (al-Araby.co) Wadi al-Dabh: southeast edge of Homs, according to this map of protest frequency, it was one of the least rebellion-supportive districts, at any rate. Alawi (Alawite) district? Probably in part, size unsure. The circle just north says it' near but not one of the central Alawi-majority districts. But beheaded by knife is an almost automatic response to adult Alawi males, whatever else is or isn't in the picture: that might be the only real reason he was selected for this. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:02, 25 July 2016 (UTC)