Talk:Omran Daqneesh

Omran Daqneesh

 * ''Moved from White Helmets

Moon of Alabama runs a good pan of the world-shocking dusty boy Omran story as a fake scene. I'm about 50/50 on believing that, so it's well-worth considering, as well as the comments (as usual, a lot of good ones). ... --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:00, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I was about 50/50 convinced by that MoA investigation as well, but now I came across research by Lina Arabii (see description of the added picture), and suddenly I'm almost convinced that it is fakery. It's a small world in Aleppo "rebel" propaganda, see also the linked article by urs1798 who knows these guys better than their own mothers do. --CE (talk) 16:01, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm convinced that's the same guy, and it casts doubt on his sincerity when he says this other kid's injury moved him to tears... I'm still split about injury faking. But less than 50-50, after Petri made me wonder if this is the same kid already used in a double-posted picture fiasco. As Sputnik reported, the same image was used for two incidents in September, 2015. First posting, SNHR, Sept. 25. Similar haircut, implied passive demeanor, realistic but non-phasing injuries... Distance issues: Hama vs. Aleppo. No issue. Time: at almost a year apart, this matters. Would we say the 2015 kid appears younger? For ref, the biggest res photo I found yet of Omran, from CNN Arabic. Not sure, will look some more, and inviting other thoughts. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:13, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The comparison image I'll call Hama girl (presented as a girl, and Omran as a boy, but visually either could be either) Looking closer, there's not much to go on. Omran has distinct ears, the Hama girl's could be the same or not, I can't tell. He's got a possibly distinct toe alignment, also can't say if the other does. What might be a mismatch is the Hama girl has a red spot on the sole of her/his right foot, implicitly a wound, but maybe an odd spot of fake blood. Omran has no sign of an injury there. All in all, I'm leaning to coincidence here, but I'm not sure either way. It would be a weird and stupid thing to do, but we've caught them doing that so many times, it's actually a plus for this possibility. "Yeah, they might do that, huh?" --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:44, 20 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about. The Sputnik article you linked is from September last year and talks about two usages of the same photo in incidents that obviously happened before then. Where is the connection to Omran? Who claims it is the same kid? Petri? --CE (talk) 15:23, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * No one claimed, but Petri wondered. It would be the same kid 11 months later up in Aleppo. Seemed worth mentioning and looking into, anyway. Good add on the front pages. He was some fad for a day or two. --Caustic Logic (talk) 00:18, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Dakneesh Family
I found the above CNN Arabic image with what seems to be his Arabic name ( عمران دقنيش ). I could have just copied it from an article, but tried to find it in the VDC records. Omran was easy, but I had no luck with Daqneesh using English (transliterated, a few ways). So I assembled the last name from a Dakno family with dead in Douma, and Hamish. Seems to be correct, and the same spelling used in news stories. FWIW even searching with Arabic, VDC shows no one of this family name has died yet. A google search for Mohammed Daqnish yields mostly just stories about Omran. It almost seems like a made-up name, but I suspect it's real and just rare. A Mohammed Daqnish appears somewhere on an Aleppo University Facebook page, at least (didn't find where, doesn't matter). --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:29, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Big Brother Ali
Later, as Omran's newly-noticed brother appeared in reports, he also appeared in the VDC database. Ali Dakneesh ( دقنيش ) age 10, with the photo otherwise attributed (in which he does look dead, from injuries somewhere else) killed by "Syrian government and affiliated militias" and from area	Karam Qaterji (just east of center - here on Wikimapia) --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:13, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Hm... this latest from B at Moon of Alabama - fascinating correlation work. First, the Telegraph's Raf Sanchez reported:
 * Abu Ali, the father of the house, sat on a sofa with his young son Omran beside him. Another son and two daughters were in the first floor flat while their oldest boy, Ali, was out on the street with friends.

(5 kids total - Omran, Ali, another brother, 2 sisters)
 * ''Contrary to the reports of the Aleppo doctors who treated Omran, the little boy is only three years old and not five. Omran has been released from the hospital along with his four siblings and all the children are quietly recovering, his father said.

Then they report:
 * It emerged Saturday that Omran Daqneesh’s older brother Ali had succumbed to injuries suffered in the same airstrike that propelled his sibling onto television screens across the planet.


 * Ali, 10, was out on the street when a Russian or Syrian regime bomb fell on his family’s building in Aleppo’s Qaterji neighbourhood on Wednesday. 


 * While the rest of his family suffered minor injuries as their flat collapsed around them, Ali appears to have been more fully exposed to the bomb blast and died in hospital. 

So... B suspects an "add-on fake," but if so, it was set up to be added in advance. Ali is built into the story, out in the street, ready to explain his having no house-collapse dust on him - the eldest status, outside status, and reflection in the father's name (Abu = father of) - everything but being dead was there. It seems like that was decided on later, in some bad planning. But they could also argue that Abu Ali just couldn't say it at first, and reported that everyone lived, or mumbeld something that was read that way. But it stands out. As Sanchez marveled, "... one son emerged from the rubble almost unscathed and instantly became a global symbol. The other son died quietly in hospital completely unknown to the world." Well isn't that a handy plot device? Why was he unknown? Beause our source went ahead and told us about him and implicitly said he was fine. Then the story apparently changed.
 * "Omran became the 'global symbol of Aleppo's suffering' but to most people he is just that - a symbol," wrote Kenan Rahmani, a Syrian activist. "Ali is the reality: that no story in Syria has a happy ending."

Yeah, see? That's what I mean. It's like these airstrikes are capable of creating these handy morality plays, even down to coincidental delays in reporting sons, to allow for deeper emotional involvement, etc. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:06, 22 August 2016 (UTC)