Talk:The Killing of Yassin Baqoush

Page Dedication
I started this page when I decided I like Mr. Baqoush, upon seeing pictures of him. I get the feeling he "kept it real." I've never seen any of his films or TV shows, or anything like that, but I start this investigation with the greatest respect for the man caught, like so many millions of others, in the crossfire of this two-year sick spell for Syria. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:56, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Death Images: Mutilation Confirmed
Building off the respect part, a try at the truth is an important sign of that. So is not using the victim's pained face for shock value. But this is an area where important visual evidence crosses over into things you'd normally not show, for taste reasons. But I have two frames that show, both confirming both details, that hole under the chin, and his clearly sliced-off lower lip. (first video, 0:36 and 0:52) Upper lip and nose not totall clear - apparently present, the former covered in blood from the latter (?) But a lip isn't usually torn off from either an RPG or a mortar. That would be from someone up-close, with a knife, who, for whatever reason had come to hate the guy's big, famous lips. So ... I ask for guidance, from CE mainly, on how to handle these. And her, or Petri, or anyone, if I'm maybe wrong here. It happens. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:18, 6 March 2013 (UTC)


 * As I said before, I rarely see use in showing gory stills for documentation purposes when one can link to the video so people who feel like it can check for themselves. I didn't feel like it but watched it anyway - quite gruesome. Poor guy. Lip seems to be missing, not sure if mutilation has to be the cause. And as I said before - it's your choice. --CE (talk) 12:34, 7 March 2013 (UTC)


 * (was typing all this when you responded, and thanks) You know what? The videos are already up. I'll just refer to them. Some moved notes and some new ones. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:42, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Visible injury notes: injury to left ankle, left thumb mangled, lower lip sliced off (??), hole (bullet hole?) under the chin. Killed by shelling? Both sides seem to be wrong. Which was one was knowingly wrong? And was the lip thing body mutilation, or pre-death torture? --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:44, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Also, considering video 3 (see below) alongside, it's not light reflecting. He has white, bone/cartilage I guess, showing at the tip of his nose. The right nostril is unclear, the left one, intact. Slicing off the nose is something Islamists sometimes do, but that doesn't quite look like it here. There's also a serious tear into his upper right cheek, and possibly some kind of trauma to the whole upper lip, all encased in dried blood. That adds ambiguity to the lower lip, but it isn't even left dangling. It's just gone. Both videos suggest a neat slice all along, no rough or torn edges. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:42, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Body Recovery video Notes
This refers to the second video listed below, death video 2. It shows Mr. Baqoush laying dead by the curb, his burned car across the street, many meters away, driver's door flung open. What seems to be a wooden utility pole lays in front of the car, snapped in half, possibly related. From this and the injuries I propose: his car was hit and burst into flames. He managed to get out and start running to the left, towards those run-down walls, for cover. This might suggest the area to his right was open area, and under ... perpetrator .... control. He stopped running after the shot to the ankle, short of the curb. After that, he may have resisted someone on top of him, in a close-up attack. His right arm, and both, it seems, remain bent, hands either up or resting on his chest (unclear resolution) - it's easy to imagine he had been trying to push someone off before his body went limp. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:42, 7 March 2013 (UTC) and --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:15, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Time and Location: I'm not sure if this is early on Feb. 24 or late. It seems both cloudy and a bit before/after full daylight. Or just very, very cloudy. Video 2 specifies RPGs (by sound) and up-front "Mash Hay Al-Assali," Assali neighborhood, with the ubiquitous Mash still unclear ("dateline?" "testifying from?") Otherwise, we hear Yarmouk, where he lived. One spot there that could possibly explain the footage is here on Google Maps. Very southern corner of Yarmouk. He would've been driving east towards the edge of it, apparently. I don't think this is the spot, but it might be similar. Directions are pretty well unclear to me from light or other clues. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:42, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I meant to mention that I could not locate this Al-Assali or Asali even on Wikimapia. Some other videos give reference to it, but I can't yet pin it on the map, and check there for possible video matches, as I would prefer to do (or be able to - lack of time lately...). --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:20, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Do they know yet? Rebels couldn't know who the regime targeted with the RPG. Documents on him proved that, which the rebels found upon recovery. In this video, they seem to be scared to go up close yet to this unknown body. A careful listen reveals no instance of Yassin Baqoush being named. So if he's an unknown nobody, why the dramatic film specifying where this is, careful to film from a distance? ("too far way to read his papers yet, so noooo idea who that is) One posting specifies in its title the army was "hampering" their body recovery, and hence the wait. It must allegedly be unseen snipers holding them back, although the cameramane seems to be fully exposed while filming, and rebels soon got the body anyway, besides the video and then more video. Not much for cover-up-enforcing snipers. And why specify the RPG attack they must've seen, but not the shot ankle, death struggle, and execution that should also have been observed to some degree? I have my guesses already for all these questions.--Caustic Logic (talk) 12:42, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Videos

 * Death Video 1- Face and ID cards, 0:54:
 * دمشق العسالي24 2 2013الممثل السوري ياسين بقوش جثة هامدة بعد اطلاق عصابات الاسد قذيفة اربجي على سيارته في حي العسالي (version linked to by the LCC - original posting? Good quality. Channel South Damascus posted it: they seem to either own that logo, or reupload an awful lot of videos from the people who own it.) --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:02, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Actor Yassin Bakoush killed by regime attack-Syria, posted by shujah4ever on Feb. 25. Bad resolution.
 * دمشق العسالي الممثل السوري ياسين بقوش جثة هامدة (better resolution ... possible original? Posted by "abuabdo khatib," "Network News Free Syrian Army." Facebook page it links to already no longer works. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:29, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * good resolution, Al-Arabiya stamp


 * Death Video 2 - Found dead on the road, 0:34)
 * لحظة اكتشاف جثة الفنان ياسين بقوش على الارض Published by mkatib89 Feb. 25
 * جثة الشهيد ياسين بقوش قبل التمكن من سحبها
 * العسالي :جثة الشهيد ياسين بقوش قبل التمكن من سحبها Stabilized
 * قتلوا الشهيد الفنان ياسين بقوش مرتين!!! By Shaamnews555 -viewing the original posting? The original, presumably by the owners of that logo, will be of some interest. No location yet. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:29, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * دمشق العسالي 24 2 2013عدم تمكن عناصر الجيش الحر سحب جثة الشهيد ياسين بقوش بسبب اطلاق القناص الاسدي النار عليه Channelsouth Damascus posting. Possible logo owners and original uploaders. "Damascus Alasali 24 2 2013 could not free elements of the army pull the body of the martyr Yassin Bakosh because of sniper fire Asadi shot." --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:02, 8 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Death Video 3 - Face with better lighting/detail, indoors (0:15)
 * شام دمشق مخيم اليرموك الشهيد الممثل ياسين بقوش 24 2 2013 تحذير قاسي Islam


 * Rebel Checkpoint Video, 0:44:
 * Syria Comedian Actor Yassin Baqoush Respected by Rebel Fighters 2-24-13
 * Comment beneath confirms my suspicion: making it look same day is bad form, actually, as well as apparently not true.
 * This interview between the actor and the FSA was a month ago which shows how much the rebels respect him so much. He was killed by Bashar's slaves after a month of this interview because the artist supports﻿ the Syrian revolution.
 * Cited: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgpwYDyl4-M - January 27


 * ياسين بقوش بين الجيش الحر قبل شهر من استشهاده Published by Ziza19841 Feb. 24

"Funeral full body Representative Yassin Bakosh in Damascus" Name in Arabic: ياسين بقوش
 * Funeral, Feb. 26 (2:02)
 * التشييع الكامل لجثمان الممثل ياسين بقوش في دمشق 26-02-2013 Published by Ziza19841 on Feb. 26


 * (SANA?) Report


 * Alddounia - ياسين بقوش جسد يغادر وبسمة تزرع في القلب Interviews! (Arabic)

Rebels in Yarmouk
The status of the fighting in the Yarmouk district (and perhaps Asali, for that matter) might be of interest here. The situation on January 27, when the check-point video was made, is of interest, as well as the days before and including Feb. 24. Other days before, between, and after these might also of interest. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:43, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

After Feb. 24
One week after Baqoush's mysterious killing, rebel forces publicly hanged two civilans in Yarmouk. Their crime, duly convicted of course, working with the regime, helping foil a previous rebel occupation by helping direct fighter-bombers to their hideouts. SOHR reported, March 2 on Facebook (no link handy) and March 3 on their main site (with a chilling photo on both postings):
 * Damascus province: A rebel battalion executed 2 civilians in the Mukhayam al-Yarmouk (Yarmouk camp). The men were hanged from trees in the Filastin round point of al-Yarmouk camp. Rebels attempted to justify this by accusing the men of coordinating with the Syrian government and of placing chips that directed regime bombardment a week earlier.

Again, a week earlier is at about the time of Baqoush's killing. The need to bombard suggests, as I think other things will, a strong rebel presence in Yarmouk then, since chased away, then come back to punish those who helped in the chasing. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:43, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Baqoush Bio/Background
forthcoming