Talk:Alleged Chemical Attack, August 21, 2013/Locations

Via M of O: ''The reported neighborhoods of this reported chemical attack in the Damascus Al-Ghouta area are: Hammuriyah, Irbin, Saqba, Kafr Batna, Mudamiyah, Harasta, Zamalka and Ain Terma. Those are rebel-held areas and have been all this year.''

Looking at the two maps it seems the numbers listed are Hammuriyah: 300, Irbin: 64+17+16+30, Saqba: ?, Kafr Batna: 150, Mudamiyah: ?, Harasta: ?, Zamalka: 400 and Ain Terma: 75. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:58, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Irbin 63 (30 children, 16 women, 17 men), Hamouriya 300, Saqba 69, Zamalka 400, Kafr Batna 150, Ayn Tarma 75 and Jisrayn 16 (3 children) and al-Muaddamiya 70 (plus 300 wounded).Jokkmokks goran (talk) 19:53, 28 August 2013 (UTC)



NY Times interactive map. Attack areas very close together, suspected launch site in Qaboun, but barely, almost in Jobar. And it shows Jobar hit, about ten blocks away from the launch site. Says UN investigators were attacked on the edge of rebel-infested Moadamiya SW of Damascus. this article says A map with a NYT article shows the launch site in a disputed area, which both Qaboun and Jobar are listed as. However, I didn't see the same map there, and it's very zoomed-out and imprecise. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:22, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Zamalka Mass Grave

 * Zamalka 21/08/2013 man lost his temper after he lost his family and the people of his neighborhood
 * This shows the start of an anonymous rebel-run mass grave. These are dug after each contested massacre. So far, only a few adult males are laid in there, and a guy with a koran held aloft is ranting. It's in a large clearing I might be able to find, despite the koran blocking the view. Presuming early afternoon (Aug. 21, must be later in the day), the camera is facing about west or southwest. Zamalka on Wikimapia - it's set so its west is generally a bit SW. Here's one good fit. A problem is the whole view to the left/south, as seen at 0:22. I'll be back with more guesses. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:55, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Nah, that's my guess. Too hard to explain all details, but it seems he's way at the NW corner of this lot, just north of the building seen hard left at 0:22. Perhaps a new wall, or the same one there curving away to the south? Circular dot on roof, check. Earlier, looking WSW, far right a distance building with a tall part - no such match, but if the tall part could be the water tower on that same line, match. Other details line up enough I'll say this spot, some foreground buildings torn down, fresh dozing, maybe expanded out into area that was pavement, maybe a new wall. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:17, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The video is published at 2013-08-21T12:35:31.000Z i.e. 3:35 pm in Syria. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:28, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * This is strange, the clearing is very prominent, yet I cannot find it anywhere in western Damascus. I did not look earlier, as I thought this would be trivial for someone else to place on the map. Evidently not so. Note the power line on the left, should help in locating the place. The 5-story building straight ahead (to the south or west depending on the time of the day) is particularly large for its type, seven rows of windows + one for the stairwell. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:32, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Kafr Batna hospital
The larges collection of victims is seen in the videos from the Kafr Batna Coordinating Committee. The two earliest videos show nighttime outside scenes, with people in panic. The location is a hospital, possibly a temporary field hospital set up in a school or other public building. The large number of victims (100+) indicates that place could in fact be in Zamalka, with its reported 340 victims and not in Kafr Batna.

Photos of the victims on Facebook here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here

Wikimapia shows an Al-Fateh Hospital in Kafr Batna. Rebel videos from September 2012 show a fire at the hospital: FNN Syria Kafar Batna Regime thugs are burning al Fateh hospital 1 9 2012 (2, 3). This is not the place with the CW victims.

Searching images and videos for Kafr Batna + hospital (مستشفى& كفربطنا+مستشفى) did not produce a match. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 02:05, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Reconstruction
The hospital is separated from a street by a stone-pawed courtyard. Between the courtyard and the street is a fence with ball-topped pillars. Inside ther fence is a narrow strip of vegetation behind a low retaining wall. (This video of a similar fence in an unrelated hospital hints that the fence could be facing south.) We see two cars passing on the street from right to left. On the opposite side of the street are some multi-story buildings.

The large brightly lit room or hall used as a morgue is parallel to the street and the courtyard, with a row of large windows facing the courtyard. The entrance to the building is to the right of the hall, with stairs and a ramp on the right side. Behind the ramp is another wing of the building, perpendicular to the main hall, with light shining out of the cellar windows. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:30, 7 September 2013 (UTC)