Talk:Crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17/SBU Audio Evidence

Audio Evidence Releases
In the hours and days just after the crash of MH17, the Ukrainian security agency SBU famously released a string of purported audio intercepts of separatists talking about their deployment of anti-aircraft systems and about their shooting down of a civilian airliner. These were made into Youtube videos with the supposed speakers shown, with translated text, and purported time-stamps (a still is inset at right). The authenticity of the recording has been questioned, but they haven't yet been proven yet to be either legitimate or fake, and merit some more scrutiny.--Caustic Logic (talk) 09:20, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Щодо збитого літака (оновлено) – ("Щодо збитого літака (оновлено)") Youtube video, posted by Ukrainian SBU July 17 (California time)
 * SBU releases more conversations implicating Russia in shooting down Malaysia Airlines flight (VIDEO, TRANSCRIPT) UAToday, July 19, 2014

Posted A Day Too Early?
(moved from SBU wiretap video) --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:20, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Ukraine Releases YouTube Clip "Proving" Rebels Shot Down Malaysian Flight MH-17
 * Sees strange July 16 timestamps on video, but as we know, YouTube stamps all videos 24 hours too early. One must use metadata interface to access upload time. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 13:14, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

The video of audio recordings was very early shown to be a hoax, i.e. a mixture of recordings of unrelated topics: some genuine amazement at the crash of MH17 and some possible genuine discussion about earlier shoot downs.

The timestamp issue was most likely just a misreading of YouTube data, but it now quite unexpectedly pops up again. Seems that someone important believed in the false timestamp. Cyberberkut has has released some discussion involving Kolomoiskiy's assistant.

On RT Russian: Hackers broke into the conversation approximate Kolomoiskiy about Boeing crash in Ukraine
 * From the correspondence between Kolomoisky's deputy Svyatoslav Oleynik and Anatoly Gritsenko, leader of "Citizenship" party.
 * ''Gritsenko: Slava! What the hell?! What have you bitches done? How could you upload that video the day before the operation???!!! Do you understand that the «Russists» have already given it for the expert review and requested Youtube for the date of its very first upload???
 * ''Oleinik: Anatoly Stepanovich, I'll call you now! I went out and the phone was left in the office, on the Internet with the tablet. I have now gathering a couple minutes.
 * -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:59, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The time issue and maybe other seed more consideration. First time. Last year, over Ghouta, it was the California time-zone 11-hour discrepancy. This time, the dates are fine. Now, this GMorder (cited by TDurden) found the Russian one, NwtxBA1m9x8, was created Jul 16 at 19:10:24. I'm not sure what method, but I used the one recommended by Petri here (and thanks for that). I get for that video: published: 2014-07-17 T19:08:57.000Z updated: 2014-08-12 T21:24:12.000Z. The English one: 2014-07-17T20:33:16.000Z. updated: 2014-08-12T14:37:41.000Z What can that mean, why the different results, which is proven? My clock computer sometimes has issues, but it shouldn't effect that. It might effect what it says here for creation date on my downloaded copy of the English one: July 23, modified date. no help anyway. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:12, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: the Ghouta videos had the issue by being early morning - anything after 11 AM came out with the right date. It wouldn't apply to MH17, an afternoon event (and one time zone closer to California's time) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:27, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Dunno about the time, but as to the "mixture of recordings of unrelated topics" Petri mentioned, here's a video claiming to prove audio fakery. I didn't fire up the audio editor to check this out, maybe I should. But in this case I go from large to small, and the fact that those "leaks" haven't been mentioned much even by Kerry's harpies tells me enough. Just like the fact that no pressure is put on the Putschists to release the ATC recordings, and the black box stuff is the opposite of forthcoming, and no satellite material or anything with a stamp put on it by an American more "credible" than Marie Harf has been forthcoming tells me with much greater certainty than some field could burn that the real story doesn't fit the "Western" desired narrative. --CE (talk) 23:46, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Claims of fakery - I'll check that out. Worth considering what's said and how logical it is, etc. But the hard debunk I think failed, and it seems to be a method issue. This piece at Metabunk says GMorder used the Russian service RGhost.net, which he did, and which the author says he tested. Two videos of his own made - of the time and date, from a government website - on July 21, one uploaded to/downloaded back from Youtube, the other left raw (one he had set for 2015 as well). He says he uploaded both to RGhost and the site told him in no uncertain terms he made those videos a day earlier than he did, July 20 this year and next. Between Youtube and our method there's no day shaved off. I didn't test it myself but it might be RGhost in this regard is a universal "it was a day too early!" converter for debunks that are a little too easy.--Caustic Logic (talk) 10:44, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Collage Claims
''(copied from A False-Flag Defector Theory)--Caustic Logic (talk) 09:20, 16 August 2014 (UTC) This brief piece on Chernukhino Cossacks is disconnected from the first piece (about Miner, apparently another rebel) and from discussion of discovering that it was a passenger plane and of the bodies. Chernukhino piece is timed at 16.33 on the crash day. First piece (Miner) is timed earlier, actually, at  16:40, and talks about a different location (really bad gluing skill here; this miner thing is most likely from another day, and I recall that was claimed in discussions which followed. )  Gluing is beyond any doubt; but individual pieces sound genuine for my ears. So he does not actually say it was his Cossacks or what they shot was a passenger plane; just that (some) Cossacks standing at Chernukhino shot (some ) plane, and than it cuts off; rebel blame is rather what this  gluing order is trying to convey on us. I would certainly check this out. --Chingachgook (talk) 01:56, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

I've gone back to early things to refresh my memory. And the whole tone of voice was different then. Today it is all propaganda and fantastic stories from everyone.The first 2 days everyone sounded genuine, spoke unthinking,not for effect. So I am thinking, things said early are more likely true. Yes that video with the telephone calls was from 3 separate calls, and at least one maybe not from July 17. The one about Yenaklevo I think is another day. KatKan (talk) 00:37, 16 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I too have heard this was in reference to an earlier event I checked where that place is. When I typed Enakievo, Ukraine into Google Maps, it took me straight to Yenakijeve, so MH17 is a possible explanation (jut northeast of this nearest good-sized city) It could be something else too, but not the AN26 on the 14th, I don't think, as that was too far east to fit the bill. It could be some other downing, or MH17 they're talking about. If the latter, it's the definition of "we" in "we have just shot down" that would be crucial. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:09, 16 August 2014 (UTC)


 * time stamp: The initial portion refering to an unidentified plane just shot down is given as recorded at 4:40 - which is about 35 minutes too early to be about MH17. Maybe it's just a time zone behind in this spot, while others seem about right, are timed even earlier than this, and are clearly about MH17. In this first part, Bez says the shoot-down was about 30 minutes ago, making it about 5:45 if they refer to a plane shot down about the MH17 was - 5:45-ish to 4:40 is close enough to one hour off that that seems pretty likely (of course times and dates can be fudged and mean nothing, but that is two arguably consistent points even in the oddball part, right?) --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:09, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Chernukin Connection
(copied (not too sloppily I hope) from A False-Flag Defector Theory)--Caustic Logic (talk) 09:20, 16 August 2014 (UTC) ...early intercepted call said ""These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin check point. Those Cossacks who are based in Chernukhino." and nobody's ever looked there. It is same distance as Snizneh and  90 degrees to the flight path so an easy shot. KatKan (talk) 15:24, 15 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Okay, the other town being named is one clue for another site, and no one looking could be why there's nothing else. I'm not sure how Chernukin connects - If the burned spot is up there, or there's another one... maybe the defector made his contact with those guys, and so his little team was called part of theirs - Miner brought them. As for why the other area, it was indicated and they say it had burn marks at the end (can't be checked and ruled in or out), so they went and it appears to have been smart. In the other direction, a mention the responsible people are from there, not even that they fired from there. But at least it's not pulled out of thin air. If there becomes more to support it, I'll consider more. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:34, 15 August 2014 (UTC)


 * We may want to put the audio story in order separately, someplace, if it was not done. I was following it initially, but now references are hard to find. --Chingachgook (talk) 23:28, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

As I recall (but do not have links saved), this is Bes recordings, glued together from genuine pieces. (I believe Bes was quoted commenting on those claims without denying they are genuine early on himself, as reported by pro-Russia media; I am unable to find this now.  ) The first piece, mentioning Enakievo, is about a different earlier episode--as he himself was quoted responded. His response about the second piece, mentioning Cossacks, was much more evasive, something like 'if every block post has a Buk, than I'll be in Kiev'. But it is clear that at the time of event, he had reason to believe that something was going on over there. That does not say this happened exactly as he thought, Cossacks may be shooting pistols not Buks or whatever; but it _may_ looked like something is launched from there, or whatever the case might be. This does suggest some notable event at that location. I do not see genuine evidence pointing to the current official version; it is more consistent with somebody trying to put a false flag there so that all attention of social networkers go that way. Chasing this flag further is a waste of time in my opinion, and is unlikely to produce anything new which is not known already. Looking the other way, even pointing out there is SOME other way, might. (Actually, it looks like attempts were made to place SEVERAL false flags, and than whatever was picked up, was supported by some further noise). --Chingachgook (talk) 23:28, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

According to a native Russian speaker I consider reputable, the SBU audio yields:

0.43 (“X”)  да майор (yes, major)

0.44 (“Bes”) это значит Чернухинские сбили самолёт (so those from Chernukhino shot the plane)

“X” [кто]   [ sounds like “то  ” --unclear/noise]        [сбил] ??? (who (unclear) shot ???)

0.50-0.52 (”Bes”)  с Чернухинского блок поста, казаки что на Чернухино стоят (from Chernukhino block-post, Cossacks which "stand" [are located] at Chernukhino

Previous and subsequent recordings appear unrelated. --Chingachgook (talk) 11:59, 16 August 2014 (UTC)