Talk:Aqrab Massacre

Child survivors

 * Not sure if Thomson really was in Aqrab. He says "this report is only from people Channel 4 News has spoken to both in and near to Aqrab itself", which could mean someone else, and by Skype. SANA has a rudimentary item today saying (in total) "A military source in the Central Region on Wednesday denied news claiming that a massacre took place in Aqrab in Hama countryside.". The guy from SyrPer also claims it's completely made up. documents.sy only quotes an "Al Hatay" newspaper based in London citing other news outlets. --CE (talk) 20:28, 12 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The BBC article has a picture of a boy who is quite obviously the same our friend Jalal interviewed yesterday, on a different "bed". --CE (talk) 21:10, 12 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, this is "Jalal Solomon" (جلال سليمان) from the Houla Media Office. The channel now has 360 uploaded videos. There are a large number of battle and rebel videos from the last two weeks, many from a place called Scorpion.
 * This older one has an ironic title: Hula Free Army prepares to defend civilians 9-11 I have been following this machine gun for some time now, it seems to be from one of the ARC:s in front of the sequrity HQ. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:04, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I noticed the references to "Scorpion" as well. It's Jalal for sure, found it on his channel after all. Question is if it's the same boy. Even without having seen the video the BBC is referring to, I think it quite definitely is. What do you guys think? --CE (talk) 23:16, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not even looking at videos yet, but sounds like the same boy from what you guys say. Actual informed opinion later. They're saying it's all made up? By the rebels? ?? Trying too hard to not make propaganda out of it as they're alleged to have intended? Thomson sais "in and near" the town. He goes places like that, and spoke to locals, so my impression is he went. "Scorpion" appears as a victims on the DCHRS Houla massacre victims list. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:47, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The head of the new puppet show called for the alawites to rise up today (besides calling on the US to re-think their terrorist filing of Al-Nusra, which of course isn't mentioned in that rag ;o)], so that would fit with your mentioned - maybe propaganda manufactured - Alawite uprising. Thomson - I doubt he was in Syria lately, but looking at context at blog and/or twitter (if he does that) should help clarify. --CE (talk) 23:54, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have exchanged tweets with @alextomo (alex thomson) on Twitter. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:11, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Great! Context definitely tells that he really is in Syria again. Just wanted to double-check that as the article isn't clear. Kudos to him. --CE (talk) 00:25, 13 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Re: "What do you guys think?" – What I think is not fit to print.
 * I have long since stopped following any "main stream" Western news channels. Propaganda works on at least six different levels, from the intellectual to the emotional. Even if you have defenses against most of them, some little lie will sneak through.
 * Quoting BBC: "pro-government militiamen besieged by rebels had blown up a building in the village where they had been holding the civilians hostage, and it had then been bombed by warplanes."
 * There are ethical norms in journalism, that govern what lies are fit to print. The BBC editors who published this should be hung from the gallows on Fleet Street have their heads examined. This is so absurd, that I cannot be bothered with any of today's details.
 * What I really think is this: When Syria is finished these terrorist will move to Russia. It is thus in Russia's vital national interest to defend Syria. The red line is in any direct military intervention. If NATO initiates any attack or "no-fly-zone" – without a UN mandate – Russia will respond by sinking the nearest NATO aircraft carrier, with nuclear armed missiles or torpedoes if necessary. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:02, 13 December 2012 (UTC)


 * P.S. – I went ahead and read the crap on BBC – how can any news organization sink this low? They are repeating "activist" claims as fact or as plausible fact. From the "contradictory reports" received by the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights they selectively choose and pick the snippets that fit their narrative. Do they really believe in this?
 * Even if this was true, it is unverified and biased – not fit to print by any news organization. I took a Free Page of the crap. I think someone should file a complaint with the British Press Complaints Commission.
 * (Is the web site of the BBC outside the self-regulation of the Press Complaints Commission? Broadcasts are regulated by Ofcom .) -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:23, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Here is another video: Hula scorpion 11-12 certificates children survivors of the massacre – (should be translated: Houla Aqrab December 11th, testimonies of child survivors of the massacre.) Facebook comments here. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 06:38, 13 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Is this the same Salafist guy who is doing the interview, and saving children? here and here -- Petri Krohn (talk) 08:27, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Three more videos here. Uploaded by Hula proud. There is plenty of relevant footage there, like this one: Hula 12/10/2012 child wounded after bombing al-Asadi of the city -- Petri Krohn (talk)

More testimony: Certificate or Ayham after leaving the safety of the hands of Shabiha -- Petri Krohn (talk) 08:35, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Scorpion?
"عقرب" is Arabic for scorpion, pronounced ʕáqrab. Must be the name of the town. Searching for Houla + Scorpion ("عقرب الحولة‎") is likely to produce relevant results – like this crap. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 06:29, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It was a description, not a name, for a victim I think translated "Zainab Veins." Did an Aqrab person die in the Houla massacre, or what? Later ...--Caustic Logic (talk) 10:53, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Al Kanteera

 * Hadi al-Abdullah returned Hula blood flowing and the massacre of scorpion 11-12 – live on Al Jazeera. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 06:46, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Context: December 6th battle
The Jalal Solomon YouTube channel has uploaded a large number of videos of some December 6th battle. Some of the same videos are linked on this Facebook page. The videos show the Houla Scorpion Brigade taking over some nearby town.

December 2nd
Attack on government security HQ / checkpoint just outside Aqrab, next to what may by the local Baath party office. The location is on the road leading east north-east, over the bridge. Google Maps


 * Hula saw what happens بعقرب 3-12. – Jalal filming the battle from a distance, 10:43 am, December 2.
 * Hula saw a scorpion battle full 2 ​​12 – Armed mob attacks security HQ.
 * Hula free control of the army on one of the barriers 2-12 – Jalil leads the mob
 * Video 0024 – Rebels drive away one BMP, enter HQ. Some fire still seems to be coming from somehere, posibble school building next door.
 * Video 0025 – Rebels celebrate capture of HQ. Inside views of building show plenty of blood, possible executions.
 * Hula clashes continue in the vicinity of the barrier 3-12. – HQ building set alight.


 * Uploaded December 6th:
 * Hula Martyrs Brigade adopt liberalization barrier بعقرب – Burnt-out building with bullet marks around windows, telecom equipment inside. Possible location, same crossroads.
 * Hula Scorpion Brigade dignity of all كتائبه Yun barrier scorpion – Baath party headquarters taken over, APC destroyed.
 * Hula Revolutionary Council adopts destroy the barrier scorpion. – More men outside, Eric the red.
 * Hula battalion sniper Mohammed Saheb Alasakr during the fight – Same battle, rebel snipers with FN_FAL and M-16 rifles. Security HQ with evidently new telecommunications tower seen from window accross river. (Note, how rebels take over Allawite living room.)
 * Mohammed Saheb battalion catch just intrusion Alasakr before – same living room.
 * Hula sidekick battalion snipers working cover for Mguethmin. – sidekick battalion? Mguethmin evidently means "peaceful protester".
 * Hula sidekick battalion snipers how they work to cover a scorpion.
 * Hula Mohammed Saheb battalion stormed barrier بعقرب.
 * Hula Martyrs Brigade adopt liberalization barrier – "Barrier" seems to be an APC or tank, i.e. Hula Martyrs Brigade "liberate" an APC.
 * Hula one hand free army vehicles 7-12 – Burnt-out police APC, seems to be outside same post / telecom office. – Suleiman is wearing same Ferrari shirt as on "survivor" video.


 * Tank taken to Houla
 * Hula seize tank tracked 02/12/2012 – Seize the Free Army tank tracked after storming the village checkpoint scorpion
 * Hula - 02-12-2012 - thus motivating men to withdraw tanks – Tractor pulls captured BMP over bridge on main road to Kafr Laha in the next village up north. (Google Maps) Is this place called Tell Dahab?
 * Hula spoils Free Army checkpoint scorpion 2-12.
 * Hula saw the spoils of the Free Army 3-12.
 * Hula 02/12/2012 seize armored scorpion barrier – Houla rebels have captured a BMP. (Via hassan husein)


 * Hula interview with one of the survivors who came out of the scorpion 3 12 – Jalil Suleiman interviewing
 * 2 12 Al Hoole Homs Ugarit Houle Homs, battalion commander Farouk in barrier scorpion battle
 * Hula bombs thrown at the city Hula 12/02/2012 – via Hula proud – This "cluster bombs" are in fact fin-stabilised anti-armour bomblets of type PTAB-2.5M.

December 3rd

 * Funerals
 * Hula funeral of the martyrs who were killed by the clashes.


 * People fleeing
 * Hula saw how people migrate for fear of shelling 3-12. – Women in truck and walking from Aqrab towards Houla. Location is here in Google Maps.
 * Hula saw how people fleeing for fear of bombardment 3 12
 * Hula displaced people Khovamn aircraft bombed 12-12 – Giant power plant in background


 * More bombing?
 * Hula Free Army is preparing to address the aircraft 3-12.
 * Hula scorpion shell of the aircraft did not explode viewed 6-12.
 * Hula mass undescribable village scorpion the shelling 6-12.
 * Hula scorpion more destruction as a result of drums 6-12.
 * Scorpion destroy field hospital by aircraft 6-12. – This "field hospital" evidently offered the services of a gynecologist and a dentist.

December 6th

 * Hula Scorpion Army free cleanses scorpion and the barrier. – armed men at crossroad outside village. Location: just outside Aqrab, on the road leading east north-east, over the bridge, in front of school. (One rebel is fielding an Austrian Steyr AUG bullpup rifle. Where do the Houla rebels get all this 5.56×45mm NATO ammo?)
 * Saw how Atmn expatriates to their families 6-12. – Happy rebels somewhere
 * Scorpion saw the devastation and dialogue with the owners of the destroyed houses 6-12. – Same rebels, angry woman
 * Hula Scorpion destruction shelling 7-12 – Suleiman tours totally destroyed building with shell / RGB remains.

December 11th
Massacre?
 * Massacre in hand and some survivors certificate 11-12
 * Some of the injured from the scorpion shelling 11-12
 * Scorpion some martyrs who Akharjnahm 11-12