Talk:Baniyas massacre

Location
This is good to know when possible, but not easy to establish here. I may have a match, however, on Wikimapia: جسر راس النبع "Bridge Ras Spring," the last pronounced Raz Naba. The marking makes it look smaller than it is. "Bridge" strengthens it: an early tweet said "Ras Al-Naba' Bridge has been closed. Activists report unusual-looking "soldiers" among the security forces. People are fearing that the "unusual soldiers" may be Hezbollah." --Caustic Logic (talk) 21:53, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, there's a bridge to this area, over the highway, and then there's a river next to it, so it might have once dominated the bridge over that, before the highway divided it, leaving the name attached to the outlying portion. Whatever. At right is the whole area in context, using borders set on Wikimapia, except for al-Nabi, which only marked the middle of it. Al-Bayda and Ras al-Nabi' had reported massacres, with fighting reported in both, and in the Maqrab area. Basateen is mentioned in another early tweet, as above, by Yasmeen Mobayed: "Breaking: Regime forces have surrounded the village of Basateen. All entrances are blockaded." source Note how close all these areas are to each other, along the back route between the fringe district and the southern "liberated" town, fields and the river in between, in a span of about 5 km. The castle at Maqrab would be cool to seize (photo). --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:54, 25 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Searching for "جسر راس النبع" leads me to this video: Storm the station shares the sea ports in Banias - a battalion of Loyalty and Enmity from April 7th. Some massacre in the making. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 02:50, 26 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Still more searching (yeah, link number 6 on the Google search page...) leads me to this "Syriasy" page: A report on the city of Banias and the massacre of Ras al-spring - 200 Shahid posted on May 3. The page has photos and two maps confirming your location and even showing the routes of the attacking "shabiha". There is a victim list with 173 names. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:20, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Government Version
SANA give the first deaths caused by security forces earlier than rebels do, on May 2. But it was, in their version, only against armed rebels:
 * A unit of the armed forces seized two weapons' warehouses in a raid against terrorists' dens in al-Bayda village in Banias, Tartous. An official source told SANA that the seized weapons included machineguns, automatic rifles and RPG charges, a pump-action and up-to-date communication devices and ammos. The source added that units of the army killed numbers of terrorists in al-Marqab and al-Bayda villages and Ras El-Nabe' neighborhood in Banias city.

Syrian Perspective blog, drawing on military sources, concurred and reported on the 2nd three fronts of attack: al-Bayda, Al-Marqab, and "In Banyaas itself, at the Al-Nabi' Quarter, we killed 17 rats." Six names are given; "the rest had no papers."

These events seem to be separate from the mass killings of civilians reported only the following day, and first seen widely only on May 4 and after.

Civilian Masscare(s)
Initial death tolls claimed around 70 civilians were killed, but the SOHR eventually settled (by May 16) on "145 civilians (34 children, 40 women, 71 men) killed in the Banias massacre." There are horrible photos and videos proving extremely violent deaths by men, women, and numerous children, as small as they come. When families are hit and women outnumber children, it's likely that teenagers, what Westerners would call children, are counted as adults.

The Famous Pile
This is the source of the most famously shocking images of the events here, and one of the worst yet in the war: 20-30 brutalized civilians, including a baby with burnt-off legs, small children with sliced-open faces, and men and women of all ages jumbled together. Truly sickening. Reportedly a government/Shabiha crime, rebels had frequent access to the pile, filming it at night/early morning and for hours in daylight (see videos and analysis below). This, plus night-time access to another array of around 20 bodies of women and children only, come in contrast to what the SOHR calls "evidence proving that the dozens of civilians who were in the torched houses or under the rubble were secretly buried by the Syrian security forces." These could be primarily rebel fighters who died during the rebel defeat and withdrawal, or even foreign fighters rebels burnt to make anonymous. Why were those buried secretly by the state, while these most shocking executed babies were left in the open for rebel cameras to shock the world with? --Caustic Logic (talk) 00:26, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Location
The sickening pile of men women and children attributed to this massacre is of special interest to me. This is visibly some excess of 20 people, not the 150 - half men-reported. But it must be the main one among two or more such crime scenes, and has been singled out for the most shocking photos to spur help for the rebels. I intend to start with a scenery panorama from available images, especially the larger batch here (warning! Extremely graphic and horrible!) (thanks, Petri). --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:31, 24 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I made a little graphic to help look for spots, but I doubt I can reliably find it. It's fairly unique- with its stairs between buildings, one with a little walled area and space next to it where the dead were piled, the other with that raised wall and tree, etc. But the resolution just isn't fine enough, and angles and shadows tend to obscure too much. One thought I had and can't shake is that it might not be in Baniyas at all. This area has a pronounced slope to it, like every spot in Al-Bayda does. It's extremely wet here, almost like a creek at the edge of the pile. That means heavy rains and also that this is no small local slope, but there's some more uphill further up the hill that this mass runoff comes from. There seems to be some slope to Ras al-Nabi', the outer parts in the lower foothills - I can't tell just how much, but all in all it's down next to the river and nearer the coast. I've looked around at both for site matches to be sure one way or the other, but I think it's probably futile unless more videos and images come to our attention.  --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:21, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

This seems to be a poor / slum quarter. There is something that could fit right in the center of Ras Al-Naba. The photos show that there is a narrow alley with stars extending south or south southwest from the pile. I could not find it on Google Earth. All the buildings and blocks seem to be skewed in the wrong direction. We should establish the exact time (from the shadow of the carpet hanging over the wall) and then establish the exact directions from the shadow of the utility post, estimating a time of 1 to 2 hours between the shots. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 02:38, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Same problems locating it here. I'm not as good with vertical shadows. These are pretty vertical, suggesting app mid-day. How do you tell if it's late AM or early PM? The rug shadows suggest - what ... 70-75 degrees elevation? For reference, NOAA calculator says (with DST on) 70-75 el = app. 12:30-1:10 PM or, on the down slope, 2-2:40 PM. If that arbitrary range includes 76, the day's high, the whole span 12:30-14:40 is included. So ... not much help so far, sorry.  --Caustic Logic (talk) 05:03, 26 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Notice, that the photo is skewed. You have to compare the the shadows to the edge of the wall. We also have a set of photos some two hours later from the previous day. These might help us establish if it am or pm. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 05:10, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Sources to Consider

 * Banias Massacre.blogspot.com A dedicated site, apparently by a person who mostly tweets, apparently named Baniyas Massacre. All their life, that name was such a burden, but finally their calling has arrived! Gonna make papa Houla so proud! Is it just the one post there from May 8? Starts out asking "What was happening during the massacres?" but proceeds instead to compile a whole lot of rebel allegations. A handy resource. Gives some names and alleged details. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:22, 25 May 2013 (UTC)


 * An Atrocity in Syria, With No Victim Too Small New York Times, May 14, 2013


 * Thousands flee Syrian city of Banias fearing new 'massacre' Associated Press, 4 May 2013

Baby girl with burnt feet
There are several pictures of this girl. Some with charred feet, later ones show her lined up under the tree utility pole with only stumps left. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:39, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Dear Jesus... dignity revolution? Can't even use any kind of blur or anything? I know she's a baby, but ... wow, legs like burnt matchsticks, while alive, perhaps on purpose, or quite like in the chaos of things blowing up in populated areas. WIll check the NYT article that describes her. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

The baby outside in the pile of bodies for two days. Who took this photo of her on a carpet and when? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * May 3, no later. Is that early? I'm vague on this second massacre(s). Yasmeen's sources are very informed, as if they're embedded with the angel of death's own unit there. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Pile of bodies in courtyard
The SOHR photo (published earlier on May 8th by Syrian Revolution Digest, and here on May 5th and May 4th) of the pile is the earliest, taken at around noon. It is possible this photo is taken by the perpetrators of the massacre.

Another photo (published earlier) shows the photo some two hours hours later. There is no movement in most of the bodies, confirming they are indeed dead and not acting out a massacre for the cameras. The girl in the red "28" shirt has been slightly moved. She is later seen lined up next to the pole. The woman in a black dress with a blue face has disappeared. The boy in a striped red shirt, originally lying on top of her, has been thrown further back in the pile. The body shows rigor mortis as his stretched arm is still in the same position.

I do not think the people died or were killed in situ. There is no blood, no bullet holes on bodies or on walls. No apparent cause of death. More likely the bodies were dumped on the spot after death. The most likely explanation is that the people suffocated in a fire. The case has thus similarities with the alleged Aqrab Massacre. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:55, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * On the right, bleeding through the back, a row of splatters. Other bullet holes, but I suspect it was a pre-massacre home assault. Many were from this home, but other brought to maximize the pile. Shabiha buried these people in secret, I think it's said, but only after rebels got photos of the whole pile. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

continued... The way the bodies are entangled is a mystery. Most likely they were dropped from a roof or balcony above the spot. In fact, my cache of photos has two photos filmed from above. (One of them is here in the Syrian Revolution Digest post.) The photos from above, showing the 2 o'clock configuration, show the boy in the striped red shirt and the blue-faced woman on top of the pile, highly entangled with other bodies. It is as if the woman had been pulled from the pile in the noon picture. This would mean that the SOHR noon photo would have to be taken a day later.
 * Possible, but a combo of killed there, tossed from a truck, and dragged into place might also explain it. But tossing into a pile, pain in the ass it might be, does have a sick appeal I could see such beasts going for. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Also of interest is that the photos from show physical wounds. The men have some blood stains, another woman has her face slit in halve, most likely with a saber. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 15:54, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Horrible shit there. I agree, maybe a an axe remove part of that poor woman's face, leaving her with that shocked gasp for a bit. In the SOHR photo, is that girl in the foreground in 28 missing her right hand and trailing ash? Are those other ash trails on the grass by her? Also in the center, apparent young adult male,looks like a sliced throat from this angle, but the above view clarifies that's an illusion. Numerous gashed heads, greater barbarity than at Houla. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

This video, published May 3rd, shows that same family dead, at night, possible inside their house in the same pile, but in yet another arrangement. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:42, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

This set of photos is also taken at noon on the second day. The Red Crescent is present, clearing the pile of bodies. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:17, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Videos
I am sorry for not linking to my playlist earlier:
 * Banias - al Beida, Syria - May 2013
 * (The list is totally unsorted, most likely with many duplicates. It now has 47 videos.)
 * Will check this. I finally scanned and found I think most of them myself. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:32, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

There are two videos (one in two different lengths) of dead families filmed at night with flashlights. One is the well known family in the pile, filmed outside. The other family is filmed inside in their home. The cause of death is mystery. Could be suffocation. It may be that this family has the three dead girls shown in photos. One of the girls in the bed has a long cut on her arm. No blood, could have been inflicted post mortem. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:50, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Ugliest massacres between Naseer in Beida c village 2 + + +18
 * Interesting. Them all dying just sitting there, so many, makes a bit more sense with inescapable gas. And there are some very bloody injuries, but many others as you point out not bleeding. Not sure how long a body has to be dead to not bleed from a cut. A head-shot, of course, will be bloody no matter what. I see small hole in the neck (0:37), larger hole in the jaw (0:45) in the jaw and under the chin, deep shoulder gash and two elbow injuries (0:55), all fairly visible and non-bloody. There's a pregnant woman, not at the moment cut open. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:32, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

I do not know if this daytime video is from the same house. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:37, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Banias massacre in a house in the village of al-Bayda 05/02/2013
 * Wrong link, but it has two women, 2-3 kids ... I think it's probably al-Bayda. Always gender-segregated, these massacres. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:32, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Yet another dead family on video: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 04:45, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Massacre بنياس in Syria 05.03.2013

His video also claims to be from the same place. Dead men wrapped in carpets. MAGGOT WARNING!!!
 * Cham Banias spring Ras massacre against civilians committed by the forces of order 6 5 2013 Warning very tough video c 1

World Reaction

 * Assad will surely pay price of Banias massacre: Turkish PM
 * Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has addressed Syrian President Bashar al-Assad from Ankara after a massacre of civilians by Syrian regime forces in Banias, saying “you will definitely pay the price for this.” “You will pay the price very heavily for your show of strength on little babies, which you did not show to others. The moans of these children that reach the skies will bring divine revenge onto you,” Erdoğan said in the closing speech of a Justice and Development Party's (AK Party) consultation meeting on Sunday. “We also have the responsibility of…Damascus, Hama, Aleppo and Homs on our shoulders and not just of Iğdır, Hakkari, Van, Sinop, Diyarbakır or İstanbul,” Erdoğan noted, addressing AKP members. “We have a responsibility to those victims who were brutally killed in Syria, most of them children and women,” Erdoğan said.


 * Chicago Syrians Host ‘Die-In’ to Protest Banyas Massacre
 * “We felt the need to raise awareness about potential genocide taking place in Syria,” said Kenan Rahmani, the ‘die-in’ organizer and board member of the Syrian American Council, the nation’s largest Syrian American advocacy group. “Entire families were executed by Assad forces in Banyas, in an area where there were no rebel fighters, simply because they were Sunni Muslims living peacefully in a predominantly Alawite governorate. According to eyewitnesses we are in contact with, the actual death toll is over 1400, with dozens of women and children left in the streets after being stabbed, raped, and burned.”

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/business/prweb/article/Chicago-Syrians-Host-Die-In-to-Protest-4498446.php#ixzz2UO7Krul2