Talk:Odessa Trade Union massacre/Videos

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The Perfect Video List
Forthcoming: see. Below this, no further comment, just the list, whenever. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:36, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Interior Dead Body Videos
This is a special and small list until now just two videos long. Supposedly the Trade Unions Hall was open to the public the day after, while victims' bodies were still just laying there. But it seems only the one famous set of photos emerged from that, aside from a few stray images of unclear origin. Otherwise our views of in situ bodies inside the hall is constrained to three videos I know of, filmed by well-placed people approved to move with the pro-government militia in charge. Chronologically:


 * The one discussed below as : 40 minutes duration, available in a comp with 9 minutes of other material before. There are different-length excerpts from this same video around, as well as different versions of that comp, but no full 40-minute video by itself that I've seen. Time: Its footage at 10:45 or so shows an older man being ushered out. He's seen further out in another video timed as 8:37. So this footage begins shortly before that (8:33 or so) and runs to approximately 9:15 PM. It shows the most victims, some already with heads burnt. The crucial 4th floor stairwell victims and area aren't shown (they might have been intentionally burnt there just after this time) but most others are seen, especially on the upper floors where more bodies were left and found in-situ.  --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:30, 12 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Channel 1: "Kulikovo field. The effects of fire" Channel 1 Odessa video, 1:51 - likely obtained, not their usual format. Time: 22:00 by the label (obviously rounded off and inexact). I've seen this nowhere else but for a number of images apparently starting as stills from it. Charred bodies in the stairwell mainly are seen from floor 2, landing 3, floor 3, landing 4. With a cut, an other widely-seen victim in a lit room, head burnt only (at 0:43) - 5th floor landing victim (at 1:03), the man at the top of the stairs on floor 5 (1:06), another 5th floor victim, a shot window. Outside, a row of eight bodies laid out (possibly from those inside) --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:30, 12 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Euromaidan PR: Russian Terrorists Burnt Alive In Trade Union Building Fire In Odessa Ukraine, May 2 2014 Others have re-posted this 2:41 video under different names, and who posted it first is unclear. Filmed May 3 at around noon, it shows mainly the charred stairwell victims, floors 2 to landing 3, floor 3, and landing 4. Nearly all of the bodies are in different positions than last seen. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:30, 12 October 2014 (UTC)


 * This video is a history of the day. It contains a lot of footage we've seen before. But the walkthrough of the building is good quality and has English subtitles. Also has a section with unseen women walking through, in daylight, finding and commenting on evidence of murder. Have we seen these before? In middle of walkthrough they find someone alive, video guy says he's not filming "what you're doing now" because it's live stream. KatKan (talk) 09:50, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Interior video is the same "Flagneck" video you found the original source for. The days after videos I've stayed vague on - there are a couple. These are useful (see 48:12 and 48:25), whole video maybe at least for the subtitles. (my part of this discussion is disposable, BTW) --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:27, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
 * It has a bit from 1tv Odessa channel, around 39:26-42:50; that shows Albu (already seriously injured now), and Vladislav Wojciechowski. Than at around 44:36 its "Flagneck" video, indeed we see they let a guy go and are nicer to him than they would be otherwise as they know that there is (presumably live) video stream. I do not remember seeing women walking around next day before. At around 51:00, a weeping man tells that no weapons were found, only sticks. (Long movie, watched pieces only).--Resup (talk) 14:27, 6 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Until moved (no huge rush) the later roof video, 4:13 - Posting1 P2 P3 and a 32:54 May 4 tour of the inside --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:55, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
 * A weeping man tells that no weapons were found, only sticks; that they should not have died, and be buried, as he say, in the dirt, at the Northern Cemetery (Северное кладбище). Not much information in what is being said, presenter just walks around, shows sticks, than somebody's water jar. --Resup (talk) 00:27, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
 * "Northern cemetery," thanks. I doubt that's right - in what kind of graves with what kind of markers? I'd suspect anywhere else - fields and water to the horth, fields to the west, ocean to the east, all more likely, IMO. But it's a second claim - "Vania" says the mass grave is 6 km outside of town. Northern cemetery [(http://wikimapia.org/#lat=46.5647243&lon=30.7987125&z=12&l=37&m=b&show=/3223230/uk/Північний-цвинтар on Wikimapia)] is about twice that far from Odessa center, maybe 6 km from a norther edge, depending where you draw the line... --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:25, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Kladbysche cemetery IS about 6 km out of town, if you count it as out of Odessa, which stops sort of where the narrow landbridge is. After that it's some village name. However I doubt they were properly buried, with crosses as you say. There is a large body of water close to this cemetery (problem is bodies bloat and float)but also what seems to be bare area with gullies. The authorities were in on it, so not out of the question it was the cemetery - 6 or 7 would fit in an ordinary grave, and that is one place fresh earth mounds don't arouse suspicion. Still they'd have needed 12 or 15 graves. "In the dirt" doesn't necessarily imply a gully, just a bare burial it no coffin. Why would be say Kladbysche if he hadn't heard at least some gossip? these perpetrators are disappearing,I do hope they ask them questions first. A transcript of "Vania" I have here says Q:where are the rest of the bodies? his A: The rest of the bodies are six kilometers from Odessa. We need to go there and take them. Then he turns and goes. Does not say cemetery,just the distance.KatKan (talk) 12:53, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Main Sources
(subject to change) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:36, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * (moved from Talk:Odessa Trade Union massacre)

Petri, the front page list of videos are nearly all dead by now. What's a good way to organize a new, fuller, current list? I've been collecting lots of links, most saved, and it's even a bit organized with notes for most. Of course there are postings, original postings, original names vs. reference names ... I've taken to using the video-length as a unique ID I can see when opening the file, whatever name it has (usually gibberish "D" type characters on my system). --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:59, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Starters by category, in descending order by length, longest first. This way, anyone with an unknown video can use the time to figure out which of these it is, track down original posting, etc. Mostly I'm only doing Youtube as that's what I can see and save here ATM. Other sites where I can't see due to dated flash player (and cannot update) so I'm not sure if it's a dupe, still plays, etc. ... anyone else can add these. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:59, 22 September 2014 (UTC) and --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:55, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

May 2 full-day compilation (including footage both of early clashes and events on Kuloviko Field - original, full-length video - snippets of note can be included and then shuffled beneath their parent video - multi-source compilations go below) --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:07, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * 33:04 orig. posting? (fisheye lens) Now identified as
 * 31:23 Hromadske.od.ua https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdK-yqCJfsg
 * 23:21 Tracce E-95 original posting
 * A camouflaged man, apparently armed with real Kalashnikov, shown at 13:30 is (according to May 2 group) Анатолий Мисюра (Anatalii Misiura), criminal police head of the Odessa region; local time is said to be around 18:35. According to May 2 group, "activists incorrectly identified this man as  chief of  УБОП (police, directorate for fighting organised crime) Олег Кузьменко (Oleg Kuzmenko). (The latter name is mentioned in connection with  some unbecoming   activities  like raiding some factories, etc raiding report; but likely it's not him on the E-95 video). --Resup (talk) 03:08, 26 October 2014 (UTC).


 * 13:33 (and 7:25 version) Pogrom in Odessa (compilation football match, downtown clashes, TU Hall - VK posting (app. original) - Pogrome (sic) in Odessa on Youtube (citing VK as original source). Some mirrors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdHIiG0Q3aA - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXT-Wz14tB0

May 2 Mid-Day Clashes only
 * 39:50 (with time of day onscreen) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSBefzAX6Rw
 * 3:46 2nd clash on Zhukova Lane, above view Митинг антимайданщиков в Одессе. 3 мая 2014 года
 * 1:43 Channel 1 - clashes around 5:00, fire truck seized Беспорядки в центре города - продолжение

May 2 Kulokivo Field/TUH
 * 44:22 "Maydanovtsy save people from a burning house unions" Original YT? (or is original elsewhere?) - another Youtube Posting
 * 33:05 posting Now identified as
 * A short clip ... from this footage suggests there's a better-quality original around. (and apparently in a different format than the full video, a better-quality original of which is at the link) --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:32, 29 October 2014 (UTC)


 * 24:17 - Youtube, Andre Fomine, May 6 - isanit1 Youtube May 3 - Youtbe dead posting - posting
 * We are told that we see those people: 02:00 по 02:50 Юрий Борщенко...   14:58  - Роман Девятов,   15:30 - Андрей Юсов, глава областной организации УДАРА и руководитель полевого штаба Гурвица...    16:10-16:12 -Сергей Гуцалюк source of the claim--Resup (talk) 06:38, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Seen and ID'd, at least mostly, and some details added already. See main talk, ATO section (or ATO page when I make that), Personnel. This, saved for discussion section on this page - waiting 'til I know a better name than 24:17 (or 24:16 sometimes - my saved copy and the Youtube reader disagree). I might be able to deduce the owner (seems to buddy up to some of ex-mayor Gurwitz's people, but mostly seems un-recognized by others - may be a guy who appears on other videos but not his own, etc...) --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:35, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Not much factual said. Middle aged well dressed woman, reacting to news on internet, and her observations, that a huge crowd moves towards the building with intent to harm/burn/beat, came here and is saying basically don't do it, calm down. But people nearby react very angrily, try to prevent recording by chants Ukraine, and angrily confront her verbally (they made their minds firmly already and there is no conversation). Neither side has a well-developed argument to present; pro Maidan say either they attacked first, or just get lost and go to Russia. --Resup (talk) 12:09, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
 * 12:45 Youtube posting (police, Mikola, north end and front, dusk - fire engine arrives)
 * 10:14 YT (little visual value, dialog would be fascinating translated)
 * 9:13 Youtube posting
 * 6:51 posting (front door fires raging, evacuation)
 * 5:48 O1.ua arrival video original Youtube posting (marching south and arriving, start of assault)
 * 5:36 VID 20140502 195829 By title, (starting? ending?) at 7:58 PM - little visual value (distance view)
 * 3:59 above orig Youtube posting? - "Trade Union House fire in Odessa full video"
 * 3:20 Youtube posting (bad stamp) (mob arrival, civilians inside, ...)
 * 0:50 a child seen in a window (title says "children")--Resup (talk) 23:46, 6 November 2014 (UTC)


 * 3:10 [3:10 VID 20140502 194721 By title, (starting? ending?) at 7:47 PM. Moderate visual value - may show back stairwell smoke just starting to rise at 0:21
 * 2:16 above orig Youtube posting?
 * 1:06 Dumskaya TV Куликово поле. Спасатели. Одесса. 02.05.14. Dusk, north end, police, fire truck arriving, firefighter carries down a survivor trapped on the 4th floor ledge.
 * 0:22 Youtube posting (explosion heard, little seen - distance view)


 * 5:28 before fire, 14-th Sotnia enters TU (До пожара в Дом Профсоюзов входит 14-я сотня майдана)
 * 0:52-1:54 in low screen, we see text telling that "Odessians have stormed TU building, and are chasing out terrorists (who were hiding there). Terrorists killed 6 people, over 100 wounded. Street fighting is taking place. Our sources in prosecuting attorney office are telling us, that actions of Odessians aimed at neutralizing and apprehending of terrorists will be considered legal. There is a firefight ongoing. The weapons were kept at TU building, and was brought there from Russia and Pridnestrovie (Near-Dnester). Sources in prosecuting attorney office are considering to start anti-terrorist operation against terrorists. Police is practically passive and does not act.
 * 1:22 can we try to see who is hiding on the roof?
 * 1:51 now we see a man on the roof. Somebody yells: "кто по телефону пиздит, (он здесь/подлезь (?) (unclear)" "Who the fuck is talking on the phone, (he is here /crawl here now (?) -unclear)
 * 2:00 "There is a gas inside! There is gas, you see."
 * 2:28 'Moskaliaku na gialiaku' "Москаляку на гиляку" (hang Muscovites!)
 * 2:46 some bossy suited man (who is he?) tells to bring police paddy wagons ('avtozaks') to the building
 * 3:01 somebody asks, is he planning to become a Mayor? Why are you filming him so well?
 * 3:10 somebody says, "I can only comment that Odessians have risen up to defend their city. And 'colorads' yell that they in 1945...(clip ends) "
 * 3:25 stones are thrown from windows; attackers have to back off a bit
 * 3:50 presenter: police discuss what to do next
 * 4:39 Ukrainian flag seen in a 4th floor window. "Kulikovo activists were on the 3 floor. So, as we see the flag, that means that the 3 floor is taken already. I do not really know what is happening inside. A gas was deployed, so we had to exit the building. "
 * 5:20 sticks stumping, broken glass type noise can be heard --Resup (talk) 02:47, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Great adds for chemicals page - the filmer says he was inside? Not allowed to film, apparently? And had to leave because of gas. Man, had to leave, got to, not beaten to death. Lucky. The roof, not from this video very well, but that needs considered. The guy is a suit will appear under Odessa ATO, personnel - "mystery professionals" (no info but I suppose won't be hard to find) one of two I've meant to add, now will. Starter words, thanks. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:16, 4 November 2014 (UTC)


 * 2:33 how a woman was killed at TU. Fascists were inside the building! Odessa. (Как убивали женщину в Доме профсоюзов. Фашисты были внутри здания! Одесса).
 * 2:52 Proof of setting fire and shooting citizens of Odessa(Доказательства поджога и расстрела граждан Одессы. Дом профсоюзов. Одесса). We see Michola, Flagneck, in the beginning. (Micola first tells policeman to make a corridor, they will do their thing than. He than makes a call, and claims on the phone they are not unarmed, have 4 of their guys and himself wounded by aggressive armed separatists). --Resup (talk) 02:05, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Same, after dark (rescues, beatings, arrests, etc.)
 * 13:16 Channel 1 ТА Одесса 20140502 214221 внутри дома профсоюза - digging through the dead's papers, moving and burning on 4th floor landing, partial building tour, neo-Nazi cross has appeared on back gate, etc.


 * 5:15 Channel 1, Ch 1 beating survivors Youtube posting.

May 2 other

Next day
1:54 Next day video. Women show spilled blood in the room, partially covered by some papers. Video title is "murder of two young women." Not clear how it was determined, no such details in the recorded conversation. --Resup (talk) 00:37, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Witness Accounts

 * 14:34 1612tv/No Comments - May 9 on-site relation by a witness (Ukrainian).
 * Witness is "Tsvetkov" - translated below --Caustic Logic (talk) 00:14, 27 October 2014 (UTC)


 * 6:19 This witness is a medic. She had some special closing identifying her as a medic, and a do-it-yourself mask made of a pampers sprayed with water. She was evading smoke, set by burning tires thrown into the building on top of everything else. She moved to 3, and eventually to the 4 floor, entering an unlocked office. There were about 12-15 people in the room, including 3 women. Right Sector rushed into the building, and the guys barricaded the door with some office furniture. Barricade was eventually broken, and Right Sector peeped in, and eventually rushed into the room. Some spraying (with unknown substance,  unknown purpose and unclear effect) was tried by Right Sector.
 * can be something easily available, maybe kerosene-based rust remover from some car shops, or something similar. There seem to be some chemical or otherwise not heavy burns showing up in number of sources.

There was a sound of (or resembling a) gunfire, and one guy fell down after that as if being shot. Right sector than started to severely beat males in the room using sticks and kicking with their boots. There were 4-5 assailants per one victim. This medic describes attackers as being in an inadequate state of rage. When she managed to make an eye contact with one of the attackers, asking to stop, something transpired so that the attacker noticed her medical clothing and that she is a woman. Despite objections of others, he decided to escort her out the building (but only her, while the assault on others continued). After passing through numerous check-points set by the Right Sector, and explaining that 'medics are valuable for us", she eventually was out of the building. She begged police officers to help the guys in the building. Police avoided to get involved  despite her pleas, telling her that they do not have an order to intervene. --Resup (talk) 20:08, 25 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Cassad blog: somebody's account reproduced, see 21-36 entry (in Russian and Ukrainian), suggesting  that Kulikovo defenders were very severely beaten, thrown down from the building and finished of, douched with petrol and set on fire; and that corpses were counted and documented for the purpose of payment. --Resup (talk) 20:08, 25 October 2014 (UTC)


 * That Rychkov videos I put (below here somewhere)there is mostly only 1 speaker.I understand zero Russian/Ukie. However I clearly heard "canister" and "benzin" (gas to you guys) in the one, I think #8, where they take SIM cards out of phones. The sprays could be anything.  Try this for yourself. Simple fly spray (maybe hair spray, too) just spray a line of it of a counter top(something smooth) then flick a match at it. WHOOOSH. No damage to the counter. Different on something spongy with folds in it.
 * So, spray on face, stings eyes, hands go up to protect face. Add lit match. Bodies with faces, hair, heads, hands burned, rest of body not. Petrol could have been slopped on to finish them or do a better job hiding other damage, selectively.  The Ryshkov video also has what sounda like a lot, more than 12, shot-like type bangs, off camera. More making sure? KatKan (talk) 20:17, 26 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Rychkoff, number 8 stream:
 * 2:30 "so, over there, upstairs, there is a lot  of canisters with petrol or  other 'гсм'='горюче-смазочные материалы'= 'fuels and lubricants.' It's over their upstairs  'на чердаке'(=in the attic)(=in the loft)".
 * Essentially similar comment was heard in another 18:33 long cut which we discussed earlier--Resup (talk) 22:26, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
 * And for the record, the terrorists put that there themselves. Not a government-mob story, but one I saw independent expert Serge Dibrov could confirm - I don't remember where, a while back. He explained how they had stored several barrels of just gasoline, I think he said, on the 4th or an upper floor, maybe to fuel a backup electricty generator, which may have exoploded. The fuel got ignited, was their own damn fault. All totally true --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:22, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

News Reports/Documentaries
(include compilations of others' videos)
 * 26:03 Одесса 2 мая.Трибунал кровавого пепла. 3 часть
 * 17:13 PolitRussia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGaaCDb9g1U
 * В Сети появилось видео начала штурма Дома профсоюзов в Одессе (Video of assault on House of Trade Unions in Odessa on the net) – Life News, May 6, 2014. (Cites and shows key parts of the Denis Cherkasov videos)
 * One of the entries captured the beginning of the tragedy: immediately after nationalists burned the tent city activists Antimaydana. The footage shows that crowd of young men in masks and wooden sticks in their hands knocked out one of the side doors and entered the building.
 * Next record has been going on inside the building. Militants spread all corridor - someone goes to the second floor, one begins to break in the door, behind which, apparently tried to hide Antimaydana activists. Brutal thugs literally pounce on the locked shutters. In the frame comes a woman who begs radicals stop.

Frames on the record shows that some of the participants of the storm House of Trade Unions have masks. And it is possible that the assumptions of the poisoning victims Ukrainian radicals toxic substances far from the truth.

Other

 * [www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR0x6Oyw12c "The Basement Odessa House Of Trade Unions. may 18, 2014.]
 * The basement was locked. The sign next to the "new" wall, under the Central staircase. What is there to hide? By and large there already poumirali and everywhere pronounced traces of what was there all totally laundered, as well as a surprise was lower... P.S. This only !little! part of the underground communication House of trade Unions.
 * The floor appears to be full of blood ... pretty red to be filmed May 18 ... --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:23, 22 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Odessa. The right Sector throws out the official in a dustbin | September 07 Ukraine Today News (looks to be at the Trade Union Hall) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:55, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Discussion
(I suggest members adopt and move or start sections here as inspired - I'll be doing both, but don't mind someone saving me work...) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:36, 6 October 2014 (UTC))

Sergei Ivanov Video
Not knowing its source at all, I was calling this the 33:05 Kulokivo video, being that long and filmed only there (not at the clashes ever). It could be Sergei Ivanov Video is better (plus there's a totally different 33:04 (fisheye) video). This is a narration-dominated compilation with sporadic music, over video of the assault with short cuts, capturing many scenes over what seems to be at least 5 hours. Pre-mob footage for the first 8 minutes, then a bit of everything. Exposure adjustment gives better-than-usual after dark footage. A lot of crimes are captured in this video. The raw footage - it all seems to be from the same unique source - seems to have some separate existence. But most of this is only available in this compilation with Russian voice-over. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:03, 18 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Originally cited here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvH1uFlaJeY Куликово Поле 2 мая 2014 Одесса posted May 6 by Надежда Мельниченко - full video but inferior resolution
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ntMY22y7Us Гуцалюк (Gutsalyuk) '20140502 18 47 35 - A short clip of this same footage (see 20:42) but with far clearer resolution suggests there's a high-res version of this footage somewhere, in whole or chunks, that also gives time-stamps. Or, it was guessed (seems to be the correct from my timeline correlation so far)
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfGTQydzXmI Куликово Поле. 2 мая 2014. Одесса, Published on May 5, 2014 by Сергей Иванов (Sergey Ivanov). Description, translated: "It has never been seen. The tragedy in Odessa. Eyewitness. True shooting event on may 2, the executions in the RAID on welcome Field in Odessa" This has much better resolution, perhaps clip-quality, but still has no time-stamps to explain the clip's title. Likely the source for the above, if not the original, direct links should go to this more primary source. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:03, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Notes: in the beginning, a narrative that old people, not many, were at Kulikovo prior to events. There was some information in advance that camp will be brought down, and some signs of preparation in anticipation  (TV set and generator, items of value, were removed). Elderly people made some attempt to defend, but those preparations were grossly insufficient for a meaningful resistance (small piles of stuff as barricades).
 * At 18:42 masked man (an attacker on Kulikovo building), says:
 * "So this is Russia's peace? We are Odessit(s), and people (who) came from all over Ukraine. We do not need Russia, we have a country already. And there is no need to break our country. That building, they did not built that. And now because of them, it has to be burned down together with them. Because 'they came to us with a sword' (from a saying, whoever comes to us with a sword, dies by a sword) to Sobornaya Ploshad =' (Cathedral Square). " --Resup (talk) 02:13, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * 20:42 'Flagneck' seen (?)
 * 20:47 familiar face seen, appears to be Sergei Gutsalyuk.
 * 26:39 a woman is surrounded by the crowd, heated argument what to do with her; eventually they let her go
 * 27:54 a man in military-style clothes first say " brought 'avtomat'(=Kalashnikov)  with 'oneself'; than later says 'had nothing with 'oneself', I swear'. Oneself can be myself or himself, depending on context (meaning of brief clips of conversation is unclear; but from what we know, defenders weapons were not found (e.g. no weapons found on tour video) while attackers had at least 'traumatics'/airguns  (Mikola) and may have real weapons)
 * 29:22 pro-Maidan man,  interior troopers close by, kicks Kulikovo man, followed by insults and a chase; apparently "Kill!" is heard, but it is not well audible in other noise.  Pro-Maidan man shouts "поймали, забили на хуй!!!" "Catch !  Beat him!!! (to death or at least very badly, suggested by grammar and a strong expletive used)"
 * 30:29 a man lays on the ground, stripped to the waist, and barely able to speak, surrounded by aggressive crowd. A stick in seen very close to the body; contact with the body not seen. Aggressive shouts where are you from? Do you have documents?
 * 30:48 bandaged, bloodied man sits on the ground (face look familiar). Heated argument in the crowd whether to beat him further. (We hear a heated argument against doing so, which imply that not everybody is in an agreement; brief clip ends at this point).
 * --Resup (talk) 13:46, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Sergei Dibrov Videos
Special section to highlight this trove... the other day I read an article (pro-Kiev slant but informative) that mentioned "Serhiy Dibrov, coordinator of the (May 2) Group who streamed some 7 hours of footage through the afternoon and evening in his capacity as journalists for Dumskaya.net." I checked Dumskaya's Youtube channel, and a found several short videos (a minute or less), of some value, but no 7-hour treasure chest. But I had noticed a "Mr. Dibrov" account with Odessa videos, and checked that ... turns out he's the original source for the 44:22 video, the 9:13 one right before it, and maybe some others. These two important additions he posted at the time or within days, along with some others. Listed (incomplete, rest in time...) Then just in the last month or two, he posted a huge batch of raw videos, mostly short, but time-stamped (in title) and adding up to near total coverage, spanning from 2:44 PM to 10 PM local, so just over 7 hours (will settle the timeline) The report mentioning his videos was dated August 11, when the first video in the new batch went up August 5. With nearly two months, this one has gotten 18 views. Most others are at 2-10 views each. New stuff here, and so much of it... Partial list, chronological:
 * Куликово поле: начало (Одесса, 02.15.2014) (19:58)
 * 2014 05 02 19:57 длительность 44:22 cb62d954-413a-41fa-89d6-308ac561bde1-6367ce (44:22)
 * 2014 05 02 17:54 длительность 57:38 1d0c3322-7d80-4dab-9a16-44841bbefaf7-e2a849 (57:58)
 * Битва за Одессу 020514 (1:15:53)
 * 2014 05 02 14:44 длительность 04:58 ae692dec 4e66 4dcf 9db0 16bdcadadb3f 41cdf4
 * 2014 05 02 14:50 длительность 08:48 89c37b3b 2f2d 4eea b659 285dca5c7383 d85cbb
 * (as linked, these bring up the list, so I'll cheese out there for now...) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:32, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

One question this discovery raises, which I can pose: In my latest video, VS11, at 0:22 (actual video start) the filmer of the video that's Dibrov's (so, Dibrov) stands on something and loudly announces something like "Oboborona!" and something else. Anyone able to get a translation of what the coordinator of the 'independent' May 2 Group said there? --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:21, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * A bit confused, that quoted video at 0:22 starts with unintelligible, some da-da-da-da (yes yes yes yes),or tra-ta-ta-ta (imitating sounds), loudly but far away so not much on the recording. At the same time, presenter mumbles something, but it is unintelligible. The first meaningful thing starts at around 0:40, The presenter: kuda-kuda oni vse idut (where-where they are all going) ? Before that, it is unintelligible --Resup (talk) 13:50, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * You can do Russian? Okay, in the video mix, not that clear. Original video at 2:15, if you feel like checking again...--Caustic Logic (talk) 22:42, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * 2:15 somebody yells: samooborona !!! (self-defense !!!--call to selfdefence unit to pay attention). From the second station, a crowd is moving !!! 30-40 people !!! Q: second station? A; Yes, Food Academy--Resup (talk) 01:13, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Hm... sounds like he's giving tactical advice to the "self-defense" attackers, to make their attack more effective. Just who he's talking about, not clear to me. "Crowd" implies their side, but "food academy?" And as you mention someone asks where they're going. I'm curious what he says. At about this time, the break-ins were happening at the building's south end. (previous video (7:48 PM) shows at the beginning the southeast entrance (near) not yet in service, while the south/southwest (far) entrance is less clear, but apparently people are lined up an entering by this time. Is he directing people to join that break-in? Would be a little troubling if so. --Caustic Logic (talk) 03:38, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


 * I am not on top of details what's going on and listened only locally. I understand that he (=whoever yells samooborona!) warns the self-defense people, somewhere near him, that a crowd, potentially dangerous, but not identified, of some 30-40 people, is approaching them from a train station number 2, and he clarifies the one which is from the direction of college which prepares specialists for the food industry. there are several such colleges in Odessa, here is a plausible directions map--Resup (talk) 04:48, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Apologies, I didn't get train station, was thinking all on-site (station=door or something and food institute meant???) In terms of the city, that crowd could be some Borotba reinforcements en route. No sign of any fight if they ever arrived - some fresh (no-smoky_ people, including Alaexi Albu (Borotba founder) and middle-aged guys in camouflage are seen in custody later (after 8) at the back of the building (facing the train station), and later yet badly beaten (best view is late in the Tracca E-95 video - Albu-looking guy in clean white shirt). Or it could be something else, but I'll presume nothing of the shady sort I was hoping for. --Caustic Logic (talk) 05:34, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Flagneck Tour Video

 * (moved from Talk:Odessa Trade Union massacre)
 * Note: The following text predates the identificatication of this footage as taken by Alex Rychkov (see ), with better quality original footage in 10 videos totaling 70 minutes (to the 40 minutes with picture freeze and lower quality in the more widely-seen singular video. Either format of the video could be cited, but the Rychkoff originals will be considered the better source to link to and to search. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:14, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

This long one has subtitles in Russian, for anyone who can read them. Seems to be some official people (uniforms, camo with ballistic vest etc) and a few people seems to get arrested/detained in the first 20 minutes or so. One at least with fresh blood on his face. Then they go into offices with papers strewn everywhere and 5 or 6 women's handbags they search for documents. A lot of it badly blurred, no lighting, possibly a head-mounted camera. But their own comments might be valuable and explain more than the images do. KatKan (talk) 18:13, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

I'll see about that. Video quality is an issue. For now, it may be helpful to save it while it is there. If higher quality versions found, please post a link. Also, I do not understand the context, like who initially posted this video; it seems to consist from different pieces glued together, so where those pieces coming from? (online)TV, guy walking with a camera, or what else? The first (9:27) is---what? Ukr tv, somehow with 2 different channel captions in 2 places, and hypercam caption in upper left??? And where are those captions below coming from? Than why at past 9:27 I see something else? This may be another instanse where Sharii may help us, in the past he was able to find high qualiy version of poor quality stuff, by some magic; and after the magic, meaning magically changed as well. --Resup (talk) 19:14, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Two very long ones, 1 hour+ and 2 hours, pieced together from numerous sources Part One and Part Two English subtitles/commentary. Towards end of Pt 2 shows various angles with red armbands circled working out who was who. Lot of early Pt 2 is slow rescues of people from windows, no beating up. Middle shows some bodies inside that we've already seen. Shows Mykola, collaborating police chief etc. Lots of duplication in these. KatKan (talk) 21:43, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


 * I need to get a properly organized list up (the one above must be scrapped into that...) And bodies videos I didn't organize yet, not that there's more than two or so of them... The part you mean is a 9-minute or so segment of odd provenance and glitches. The only such footage I've seen, there's still open flame in spots. From this and other sources, BTW, I count exactly 32 victims inside the building. Any 80 extra people (for the 116 tally) were already gone by this time. It's discussed somewhere, and there's a French subtitled version that helped me get what they're saying (linked somewhere on the site)."Flagneck" is leading this walk, taking ID papers, arresting the stray survivors still found, directing firemen, knowing everything that happened, etc. It shows deaths maybe caused by fire, ones he says are, and some I don't think are. A few interesting things about this should get some space...  "People's Republic of s**t" he says at one corpse, stuff like that. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:23, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Un blogueur filmait en directe du bâtiment à Odessa, Ukraine le 2 mai (sous-titres français) 48:34, comp. I have a stand-alone 9:14 copy saved that might be from this posting stamped Free RUTube (unlike the copy in the French one). Not sure which has best quality - all seem to freeze for long times, then show a few clear frames and some blurry ones. There should be other postings, but not too easy to dig up. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:50, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


 * What I haven't seen is a stand-alone copy of the longer version. These comps have it, running 8:50-48:24 in the French titled version, so just under 40 minutes. The longest stand-alone I've noticed is the 9-minute chunk. Original source I think is outside Youtube (not Free RUTube) and I don't feel like tracking it down. What it shows is what matters most to me. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:29, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Found my notes. Another posting of the 9-minute version: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q4W-J4ctKE Inside the House of Trade Unions. Ukrain, Odessa. people killed in a fire May 2, 2014] by Rawist Kolorad. And from the French subtitles, some dialog/translation/summary/notes:

12:32 Kiev, ecoutez. Maintenant il y a un cadavre confirme. Kiev, listen. Now there's a dead body confirms.

17:11 flames still

19:39 Il ya un cadavre dune femme a letage enfume. Peut-etre juste un empoisonnement There is a corpse of A woman on the floor covered in soot. May be just a poisoning - one man steps on her and rolls her around jokingly

20;; top floor locked door, threats - 2130 beating a survivor

22:00 - asphyxiated 22:15 "a negress"

23:50 ten bodies on top floor

24:13 types of dead: fuckers, Maidan I have enough door (a Maidan je les ai assez porte,), still here, shit. (swearing is okay here BTW))

26:15 celui c'est qui? Ik est notre? Non, "Colorad" the one who is it? It is our? No, "Colorad" (by clothing, seen earlier in the day on that side - notes coming somewhere)

27:58 Putain. C'est le cerveau? Non, le sang coagule Fucking. It is the brain? No, the blood coagulates

28:24 Etes-vous seul ici! Non, je ne suis pas seul vous etes combien? Are you alone here! No, I am not the only one you are how much?

Il ya encore des gars. Sortes. Ne sortez pas dans la rue. There are still guys. Kinds. Don't go out into the street.

28:47 La bas il n y a pas de survivants Sauf les maidans The bottom there are no survivors Except the maidans

28:52 en haut, il n'y a que des partisans de Maidan qui sont vivants. Et tous ceux qui sont la, ce sont des macabes. at the top, there are supporters of Maidan who are alive. And all those who are the, what are macabre (dead?).

29:07 J'ai regarde la haut, la ou il y a enfumage. Dans un piece il ya 3 macabés, tous morts - I look at the top, where there is smoking. In one piece there are 3 macabés, all dead

32:10 estimates 25 or 30 bodies total --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:12, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Seems to be a stand-alone 18:33 cut, at least normal res https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPrK5tdwybw --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:20, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

0:14 "yes, I was upstairs, lots of smoke, and lot of canisters with petrol or some other fuel upstairs"

0:22 "nobody was there"

0:55 there was nobody, only corpses perhaps

0:56 "I am not filming"

1:02 "image is not sharp, so will not be possible to see"

1:07 what should I film?

1:13 "anybody alive? No we threw them away"

2:12 pills 'millgama' (he asks does anybody knows what for)

2:33 don't marauder, guys

2:42 Sh*** (pronounces the name, Ukranian, a student

2:47 (blood seen?)

2:51 fuck, the blood

3:06 I have already 6000 in a stream queue (don't know what he means)

3:40 fuck, what't that, brains? A: no just blood coagulated

(do not understand why I see some advertisement captions in lower screen, e.g. at 4:00)

4:20 X: how many of you are here? VideoGuy: I am with some guys X: start leaving soon. To the backyard, but not to the street, get ready

5:04 Q anybody alive there? A: Only Maidan

5:08 Q anybody alive/ (again) A: (Literally) "already no," only pro-Maidan

5:14 those are "всё, жмуры"  "gone, dead (slang)"

5:29 Q did you check the rooms A: Yes, in those upstairs, where there is some smoke, there are 3 dead, all (unintell.) dead already

5:43 (brief prayer for Ukraine)

6:32 (insignia seen) (we have a file somewhere with those)

6:42 Q and the roof? A: there is an entrance, that way, via an attic, but there is a lot of smoke there

7:08 here, everything is empty

7:35 'and imagine what will happen in Russia, if suddenly...this is just Odessa' (not sure what he means)

8:05 Trade Union building is unrelated to Maidan

8:27 just look, they were drinking here, vodka, pickles

8:41 this notepad is likely not theirs (?) here, everything was taken away already

9:15 what's goin on, "Seryi" (nickname), what 's going on upstairs?

9:30 router power supply still works

9:42 (outside cheering heard,) let's quit now

9:53 can we go downstairs?

10:05 "Misha", don't let them go to the street

10:41 So, “Seva” left the building. Q: He is on the roof ?A: no, a lot of smoke in the attic, too difficult to get there without a gas mask 10:44 (blood?)

10:57 -We should have used that trophy one. -Yes we should have (insignia seen, not enough resolution, likely a cop; also @ 11.07)

10:59- Approximately 25 dead -Fuck!

11:05 mostly smoke inhalation

11:08 in one place, nearly smashed the liver. Lots of blood.

11:42 (unintelligible) ...have you got anybody?

11:51 so, nobody is left?

11:57 quit from this side

12:13 (green banner, something written, cannot see)

12: 23 over there, the exit is blocked

12:34 and over here, also "cosmonauts" stand (presumably smbd with helmets)

12:37 (we see some (metallic?) bits and pieces)

13:17 now guys we may get our pants ripped (some obstacle)

Streaming ends here, the rest is some presentation, using historical footage and some photos

15:10 photo: appears to be  historic, some VIP  photo in the hands of soldiers. Caption says: buried secretly so that their graves are not desecrated by Maidan

15:22 widowed families, left one-on-one with "people's vlada"

15:42 some list of names and ranks, unclear what is this list, and memorial, Ethernal Flame, footage, all possibly taken from a movie (?)

up to 17:48 -WW2 themed and anti-maidan themes

18:20 chants, cheers Berkut! Berkut!

--Resup (talk) 00:15, 7 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Excellent, thanks! The extra stuff at the end, didn't watch far enough before. Maidan cops (Berkut) ignited, February or so (unsure), 3 cops I recognize as killed on the Maidan Feb. 18-20 (just a few of the few dozen), so not directly related. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:32, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Channel 1 Reports
Captions in lower screen in the first (9:27) minutes video are as inflammatory as it gets, like terrorists who shot that many people kept their weapons in Trade Union building and so it is now prime and proper to go their and "neutralize" them. Don't want to translate word by word, because first it is hard to see, and also I do not know is it for real or fake (poor quality is some support for the latter). Can't be sure is it 'hvylia" documented, or later spin by somebody trying to to "prove," whatever. Another perplexing thing, around 13:37 loudspeaker kicks in. Unfortunately I cannot hear all words but it is something like ..Rossii...podniata po trevoge...idet na Ukrainu....hurrah!!!! ( unintelligible...   of Russia... placed on red alert ...moves towards Ukraine... hurrah!!! ) I wish I knew what is being said, some words are unintelligible, and it is  more likely call to arms against Russian "attack", but also consistent cheering that "attack"). I am referring to the initial longest version (the one we started with, labelled part 3 on youtube) . But with all that, starting to wonder: what was shown on TV at that time? And what was shown on police scanners or radios at the time? (Some folks may be hacking such communications). But we also seen some funny captions before, so don't know what to make of this. --Resup (talk) 00:15, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Just notices that type of caption line on 1tv; then it was gone. So may be real; good if 02.05.2014 broadcast can be found; was unable to do so. Actual videos supposed to have much higher quality --Resup (talk) 04:00, 6 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Channel 1 reports (1tv.od.ua), compressed into most of that 9-minute segment, can be found on Youtube in many forms, mostly low-res. There's a high-res batch of some of the later ones with times (poss. from the reporter) But sometimes when I say where, they disappear. These and other copies of their several videos seem legit, on-site reporter, same things everyone else sees, etc. though I haven't looked into the channel much - if the reporter there is named, and matches the channel owner, they're probably his and not so fragile and I can share with ease (I have my own copies, but not everyone does). --Caustic Logic (talk) 06:28, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I've checked on Youtube anyway, and the nighttime views at least don't appear. The different kinds I've found listed below. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:48, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

From Channel 1's Youtube channel, mostly raw:
 * Массовые беспорядки в центре Одессы (2:57, clashes, posted May 5)
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc74YB7f8FI 4:34, fires
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn1vc2Fo9vk 1:50
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRuy4URvBPY 10:20
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxEcIDj5Mpg 5:19
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z48I8pfFPIs 16:21
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YwqTxlyrGU 9:26
 * www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPal-euLnhQ 2:41
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDdLK4Oapdc 1:07 "411 battery - demolition of camp"
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeARQM1HLF8 1:52 dead people "Kulikovo field. The effects of fire"
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIoXOphiYfo&index=1637&list=UUD5DH6laubLN4JXhbYGOCVQ - clashes at 5:00, stolen fire truck
 * (Others findable in the list format - see 1646-1652 - unless the index changes and link ... modifies I guess?)
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MlGiSoI33g May 3, donating blood for the wounded

Channel 1 investigation reports:
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqnz6be6Wbw May 3, witness
 * The thugs in uniform May 8 - IDs Fuchedji and red armband issues, etc.
 * The people's deputies are investigating the tragedy may 2 May 20
 * 2 MAY. WHOM TO BELIEVE? June 26

Re-posted, supposed (Hypercam reports and others - forthcoming) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:48, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Aleksey P. (mainly nighttime reports, 8:30-9:42, looking like from-TV recordings) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:48, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
 * ТА Одесса 20140502 214221 внутри дома профсоюза
 * ТА Одесса 20140502 212854
 * ТА Одесса 20140502 215540
 * ТА Одесса 20140502 205553
 * ТА Одесса 20140502 205028
 * ТА Одесса 20140502 204458
 * ТА Одесса 20140502 203702
 * ТА Одесса 20140502 203354
 * ТА Одесса 20140502 203045

Mark Gordienko Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUjxE2wVCPI "Odessa 020514 fighting in the centre and the fire on the Kulikovo field" (trans)

Otherwise/previously called 33:04 (for its length) and/or Fisheye (for the lens used) this somewhat useful video can now be identified by the guy who recorded it - Maidan Self-Defense member Mark Gordienko ( Марк Гордиенко ). A motorcycle enthusiast sometimes seen in a red-and-white jacket like this photo, and red helmet like here, both glimpsed on the guy recording this on May 2. The mayhem his cohorts were central to is filmed from a presumably expensive camera (shoulder-mounted?) after he rolls up on a seemingly admirable motorcycle. The inset glimpse shows his upper head as he removes his helmet (1:28). and it looks like him. The video has only been posted on Youtube once, that I've seen, by account Igor Sagaydak with no note of being from someone else. But the one-minute video posted just before it clarifies the issue - "Odessa 020514 mark Gordienko cops fire fighters doctors" - a compilation of scenes from the long video showing all the parts where Gordienko swears and has it beeped out. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:40, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Content summary: mainly downtown clashes, arrives later at Kulikovo (starts about 24:00) and films some in the front and the back. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:40, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

- He catches a little-noted plume of green-tinted smoke at the main entrance barricade (25:40). --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:40, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

- A comment beneath the video, auto-translated on-page, says "05.20. Asks our body? In response, ask again as if misunderstanding, but it does not affirmatively otvechayut.Ochevidno Mike that is being recorded. Then cut out the video a couple of seconds and ..... Vualya.Delaet conclusion - 'our'. Provocateur fucking." Resup? --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:34, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
 * They say, one of "ours" is killed, apparently gunshot wound, man may be tall, blond. They seem to tentatively agree, but they are not 100 % sure. Audio quality is quite poor, --engine noise.  --Resup (talk) 15:02, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Notes: Good picture quality, fisheye captures wider view than usual for context. Poorly-handled: the camera on its cool mount swing around wildly, sometimes going upside-down.. Minimal blur, however, means a fast hand can catch some good views even in mid-swing. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:40, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Tsvetkov Video

 * (moved from Talk:Odessa Trade Union massacre/Clashes)

Yet another video mostly shares an older guy relating the day's events a week later (Ukrainian, no subtitles, on-site, excellent resolution.) --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:53, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

He (Tsvetkov=T) speaks Russian, and he is from Russia, from an opposition to the Russian government pro-peace group (this is what video captions tell us). He may be a Russian-Jewish and appears similar to an Odessian culturally (would be pretty hard to tell the difference). A woman overheard next to him has a southern accent. Somewhere early on, some shooting, and they discuss is it real shooting or not --Resup (talk) 03:28, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * 0:46 – "the day before massacre, there was information that separatists will try to prevent a march by pro-Ukrainians on the occasion of a football match, and this is exactly what happened (this sounds very peculiar: no reason for 'separatists' to ask for trouble; especially with Right Sector block posts, and having top range body armor. As I recall, Fuchtedi was telling somewhere that no march was planned, it just happened on the day)
 * 1:28 – "there was an impression that police tried to arrest Euromaidan guys, which outraged the crowd; but unfortunately I do not have this footage"
 * 2:17 – "those in black, are federals? No, внутренние войска ("interior troops", military-style police)
 * 2:25 – behind the police, there are some others, pro-Russian
 * 3:40 – (some sobbing Maidan or footbal fan ): "why militsia beats us?" T: "otherwise, it will be such a mayhem"
 * 3:44 – T: apparently they try to disperse both. A woman: and who are those behind??? behind cops? ("мусор"= militia man, disparagingly)
 * 4:09 – some girls reached here for stones from the pavement, stones are still missing now
 * 4:42 – on Preobrazhenskaya Street, I saw the ambulance and some wounded people
 * 5:02 – over here, a man was laying; I was told he has no breath, dead. Crowd was outraged when T tried to film
 * 5:13 – on Deribasovskaia (= most famous Odessa-mama street, featured in every other song, like what French Quarter is for  New Orleans.), all shops were closed (mayhem we see is  as much out of place as it would be in the French Quarter, or on Montmartre in Paris.)
 * 7:20 – here, near trade house "Athens", I saw a young man with a gun (we see a hand and a handgun shooting). I asked him to show me his gun. It was a pellet (replica, not real) gun as you can see. (it is, I understand, easy to buy, and it is not unusual to carry those for self-protection. Real guns are not supposed to be there (unless Odessa nowadays is like Odessa in Texas, but I very much doubt that)
 * 10:35 – I came here with everybody else, and there was a big stream of people here. Some separatists locked themselves in that building, and some other were behind barricades
 * 13:05 – Q and when people exited the building, how were they greeted? T: nobody exited. Some guys rushed into the building and started to hurl "фугасы " ( IED, bomb), molotov cocktails. The building than was on fire. Nobody exited from the front. From sides, they entered and tried to rescue people. What he saw himself was that door was broken and a few (just a few) people went down from the building. There was lots of smoke but he expected that people will be able to leave and did not anticipate that many casualties.
 * (ending) – T: "That woman was telling that she is from separatist group. Crowd was very aggressive, but in the end they let her go". (This is peculiar. I remember from long video she speaks with incredibly strong non-Russian accent (like Polish or Baltic--not sure). Accent is so bad, she can barely communicate on that other video; and the crowd on the other video say "pay her of?" than "no just kick her out of here, take her to police, and do not film." Was not clear on the long video WTH, nor it became much clearer what the deal with that woman)

On Tsvetkov ... That makes sense to me. I was wondering what view he took, presumed pro-Maidan since he's being so open. Wondered to what extent and how an old hippie (as I know them here) winds up taking the same side as the neo-Nazi lynch mob. But this is the old USSR where anti-Establishment hippies had a different establishment to fight, foreign cultivation (alongside neo-Nazi types) and all that ... did not expect he'd be from within Russia, but knowing that, he'd make sense winding up in Ukraine - maybe not Odessa, but if there, following this right wing mob and arguing their case... Went in to rescue people my ass. Rescue bats (truncheons) have a different shape from beating ones, and it's clear which type they're all holding as they pour into the building that wasn't on fire until they showed up... --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:08, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

On the woman ... at the end, a photo of her (or is that video? another one where I can't tell...) You can see Tsvetkov taking still photos of her as she's detained in [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdK-yqCJfsg the Hromadske video] (arrested and yanked around, including by "matchstick" as at 22:56, T seen 25:50) I guess you've seen this footage as you know her accent. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:08, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

A woman seen at 22:56 on Hromadske is, I believe, not a strong-accent woman, it is rather a well dressed Odessian who came there reacting to news/events and try to argue non-violence, than quickly verbally assaulted. There was another woman on a long, glued pieces video we discussed the other day, she had strong accent, out of touch with what's happening, and the meaning of that footage, if any, is unclear. --Resup (talk) 12:45, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

At around 25:00 on Hromadske, there is sportish-dressed woman, she is the one I saw on long, glued pieces video. She is apparently Western Ukrainian with a strong Polish-like accent. She says she got not a single drop of Russian blood in her veins (matching accent than). She says Ukraine, Ukraine at some point. She is asked for documents, her money show up instead, some scuffle like somebody tries to grab them and somebody else tells not too (unclear). A suggestion is made in the crowd that she is drunk (maybe, not too bad though) --Resup (talk) 12:58, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

1 channel, Russia
1 channel, Russia


 * 0:36 Vyachelsav Markin (?) and another injured man can be seen


 * 6:40 (masked man footage), (caption: TV channel "Inter", Ukraine) "they barricaded themselves up, and shot at us from a rifle. As a result, we pelted them with 'Molotov cocktails.'  What happened here is definitely a response to the murder." (i.e. the one he assigns to separatists).

Presenter explains that masked man footage later disappeared.
 * (I've never seen it --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:22, 14 October 2014 (UTC))


 * 3:40 Herding? presenter makes the case that there were few anti-march protesters, too few to stop the march; however, even smaller group of protesters separates, as presenter tells us to draw the crowd (towards Grecheskaia where main clash happened). At this time protesters yell (We hear it, and we are helped by captions):


 * 50 people... that is ..(unclear)


 * if we make our way through this alley (если мы зайдём с проулка), there are few of them there!

I am not too clear with 'geography' of events, but this appears to be about 'herding' from main flow on Deribasovskaia street, (main street) to Grecheskaia (either square, or an alley towards it). (here on a map). As I understand, this is where interior troopers and Kalashnikov shooters were? (Or else, where? )
 * That's clash #2 Zhukova Lane/alley, from the park at its north end. This ends in a push-back of the cops and reds (real or fake) to the south, ending at Afina center where they were effectively herded in with other red-band folks (real or fake) already occupying it and many were arrested by other, awake police forces. (of course, some of them escaped, taking the Russian gun from Trasdnistria with them to the TU Hall, some said...) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:22, 14 October 2014 (UTC)


 * 4.27 well-built uniformed officer (presenter: "MoI officer"; we some plane-looking insignia, which may be MoI, with 'Ukraine' written on top) instructs a "protester" with red armband:
 * it should be clearly understood what each platoon is doing
 * ('взвод'; this word is hard to hear, "but" we are helped by captions, and we see a consistent lip movement)
 * and you just take off and run, where you run???
 * so, you see, each time there are some problems
 * regular MoI insignia is shown here. It has letters мвс . The uniformed instructor has similarly-looking insignia, but it appears something else is written or drawn at the bottom, not мвс. Cannot see it clearly (is it some sort of dagger? Not sure)--Resup (talk) 17:33, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

.--Resup (talk) 23:54, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Don't know the officer yet, but might be an often-mentioned Chebotarev/taru. Might be a legit guy - Fuchedji seems to trust him, maybe. The words seem vague enough it could be different things. Maybe "make sure none of your platoons are doing this shooting, like the Maidan people are saying." All this "instructing" could be them trying to convince the nimrod/provocateur segment to please stop. Arrests of course would have worked better, but that was only done on May 2 after herding was done, by the unity mob. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:22, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
 * They did not anticipate anything big, football match and 2 meetings, 200 people each, at different places in the city; why than to instruct (several platoons?) of officers dressed like civilian protesters? This uniformed officer is working under separate command than normal police and Fuchedji. (Who is under whose command was important in Maidan investigation). --Resup (talk) 11:04, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Another scene with that guy: Tracce E-95 19:25, talking to Fuchedji --Caustic Logic (talk) 17:21, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
 * But when Fuchedji gets to Kulikovo, he (according to himself) is no longer in charge, Hvila is on, somebody else is in charge... --Resup (talk) 17:38, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

4:44 We see, apparently, Mikola making a phone call, surrounded by some guys, who appear to have received some military experience or training in the past. There is Ukrainian TV crew, and some cop, in attendance. Mikola: "They have weapons, they are are aggressive, they have pirotechnics, and weapons" (we do hear 'weapons' in Ukrainian said by Mikola, the rest of this is being said is presenter translating). "We and our guys came with no weapons. I and 4 of my friends are wounded" (he clearly is not wounded here)--Resup (talk) 19:58, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Perfect List Discussion
How? --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:36, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

UkrStream TV
Video #8 has substantial intersection with flagneck video, 18:33 version. But this is a different, not identical, cut. There is quite a number of new things, below in some random order.
 * It is clear that the person on flagneck video, 18:33 version, is Rychkoff (identical comments made)
 * 4:30 on #8 video: (Ryckoff answer to a question): arms were not found
 * 4:51 (this video) is already being shown live on (someplace)(Kiev) (smth like спиннобачине (unclear, I could not find what's this),  Киев(=Kiev) )
 * 6:29 (Rychkoff) Nobody is alive (somebody) we 'threw away'  those who were alive ('живых мы выкинули' )

UkrStream TV appears to be independent, internet-based, Ukrainian news media publishing live streams. This is valuable source of original videos than. Rychkoff most likely intended his video footage to be used by UkrStream TV.
 * Bozman on ukrstream.tv Watching it again, do not see any spent cartridge exiting, do see a cloud in front of the gun, stay with opinion it is CO2 powered BB (or pellets) type airgun (and it sounds like one, too).

Rychkoff. He has facebook and livejournal, which contain interesting things. For example, May 5  5:40am  entry is that 'two on Kulikovo were definitely beaten to death (one maybe because he recorded lots of blood on #8 video, but there was than somebody else). Ultras and some random people were doing the beating. Police did not interfere at all'.
 * earlier livejournal entries show that it was very calm in Odessa before Kulikovo events (very calm on May 1)
 * analysis of photo material which we look at as well (Adam, can you look into this and make comments, since there is large intersection with your comments on material)? Some things to note:
 * face with '3 gunshot wounds'; he has a bit better resolution, and argues it is not gunshot, just some spills of blood (I am not sure, perhaps, may be wounds as well, e.g. pellets/buckshot, or some other source of wound. Does not look like point-black firearm wound, indeed)
 * he argues that face and hands blackening is due to sooth deposit. I am not convinced (too much sooth, only there). But douching in gasoline and setting on fire may indeed have skin peeling of, as Rychkoff note. Not clear on skin peeling issue.


 * Kushnarev. Somebody makes a comment
 * No they did not change cloth, on the contrary, a man who saw the corpse in a vest at 4:08, asked: "Is it ours?" So they assumed that 'ours' can show up in body armor, but police equipment should not disappear, and no need to leave any clues . The vest was taken off at 4:30, why, did they try to hide something? Maybe vests are numbered? Referring to video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv9_z6Cdf3g which is now unavailable.
 * --Resup (talk) 15:12, 26 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Guys, do you have these? a few scenes seem familiar but not all of them. From original photographer. Are you aware of this collection of videos?


 * Mostly inside, some apparently before the fire? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IcS4dONdek&index=8&list=PL7YF95CuJdpQF9YFCkjNqm8lGSL1kq3eD
 * in #8 seems to be burnt body lying on huge pile of unburnt papers??? lot of very clear talk in them, if anyone can understand. There's earlier outside shots on his general "videos" list. photographer also has a lot of Facebook talk https://www.facebook.com/rychkoff KatKan (talk) 08:09, 26 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Great find. Seen it? Yes and no. Seems this is most or all of the footage from the "Flagneck Tour Video." Resolution seems no worse than the others, maybe better. Is the freeze-frame effect better here? (hard to tell on my system). Desc trans: "Record stream with the Kulikovo field in Odessa, where in the evening of may 2, 2014 hosted acceleration camp Antimaidan." May 3, All in a different chunks format than I've seen. Might be the original source. 9-video 10 video playlist Oдесса. Разгон АнтиМайдана на Куликовом поле. Часть №6. (Odessa. The acceleration of Antimiani on the Kulikovo field" (videos titled part 1-9) by one Alex Rychkoff (all videos.  No thorough cataloging to see how many minutes are here, how many might be new - but at the start of #3 is a useful sequence I don't remember seeing in the other compressed versions - saved a copy of that part just in case. The rest, nothing new. #8, a red belly/burnt belly victim, was somewhere hotter or more toxic maybe before he got killed on or laid on those papers. Worth a little more examination at least. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:33, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I add them up to 70 minutes of footage, with videos 1 and 2 all new, the last parts, some in the middle. Best resolution (only so much better), this is awesome. Check the Nazi symbols he recorded across the police chields at 2:50 in video no. 1. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:36, 27 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Alex Rychkoff on Twitter (spelled that way in both cases) - supports Right Sector anyway... --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:39, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Fron the Facebook page, Oct 19 - is that Yarosh's business card, signed? - Oct 23 links to Navoaya Gazeta article, "interesting and informative" (blames Right Sector for the massacre), mentions meeting writer Yulia Poluhkin (misspelled) on May 2, and "доверять мне ей довольно сложно." - May 2 "Guys. I am alive and kicking. Has been a creampie ( Был в полной жопе ), but alive." (not everyone could say as much!) May 3 "My broadcast from burning house of trade unions in Odessa it was dismantled into pieces of different media and no MEDIA." - May 3, playlist up, some comments "I was the only reporter who was in there and kept a straight stream." - later, responding to criticism (edited) So, I guess it's the Rychkoff video stream? Maybe somewhere he gives the name of the guy ("Flagneck") giving him biology lessons here? --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:25, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it is Rychkov, the original videographer, so the quality would be original too. Some of it very shaky of course. He does say in his Facebook that a lot of it was taken and used in little pieces. His is uncut. Flagneck was a major player but I've not seen any hints who he is, nor seen him anywhere since. KatKan (talk) 10:40, 26 October 2014 (UTC)


 * video 1. Approach to the building. He says that firefighters are on the scene, some loud cheers follow shortly after. He seems to just miss the audio of the screaming woman, we discuss it elsewhere. But he was busy preparing for filming, that included giving his cell number to a friend, without revealing the number in the footage. (All of that seems reasonable).
 * video 2. He goes to the back of the building. At 2:43 he says, quickly: they (Kulikovo activists) are being beaten. Consistent to the desciption footage follows. --Resup (talk) 13:09, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Photos
As Resup decided, there should be a place here for photos, and this should be the visual evidence page (but calling it videos is okay). There will/should be more photo sources listed here (no rush) --Caustic Logic (talk) 01:11, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Lesser-Known Victim Photos
Appears to be a new site for Odessa, with lots of photos, starting from part 1
 * somebody wounded shown (last 2/3 in this group).
 * (Do not see something striking immediately but at least to keep the link)--Resup (talk) 20:09, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Have not seen staircase photos (Dumskaya written on them), seem to be quite high-resolution, and non-fire death  --Resup (talk) 22:55, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Top, the four widely-used stills from Dumskaya's 10 PM bodies video. Next: A video of some program's interface, "Tornado" spelled out, no movement, no audio .. ?? - ignoring it. Kid with glasses, don't know. The photos: upper left - 5th floor landing, Dumskaya photo (seen later with orange globs on nose and finger, and looking different... victim-image correlation needs some work somewhere - or a place and time to copy my work over) Upper right, never noticed this view - Kushnayrov and behind, I guess is the guy seen at upper left in top image, both with only faces burned ... lower left Mr. Calin Anatoly Adnryovich or similar, upper side stairway, had a Pravi Sector newspaper and various odd gear on him when searched later (a Channel 1 video) ... lower right we all know.  --Caustic Logic (talk) 01:11, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
 * In a related scan, located two views/versions from that lineup:


 * Kushnayrov and other victim scene, different arrangement, from unian.net, citing Dumskaya.
 * Man in black on 5 landing - from here, Dumskaya9 in title. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:08, 11 November 2014 (UTC)


 * 3 falling victims and another person in camouflage, all dead out back, late night. The camo guy is of a sort included in the analysis under Talk:Odessa Trade Union massacre/ClashesFrom interesting Timer article with other lesser-known photos of the day. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:58, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
 * More on this image - I can only match two bodies with the seen falling victims out back here, as catalogued in a table here. The two furthest away from the camera were seen dead in about this spot shortly after. The furthest victim is #8, seen falling almost on a man who just jumped down. The one a bit closer and to the left is seen carried by in the Cherkasov video (no number, not correlated yet, might be the same as one, esp. as # 11). Messed up bloody face, not as clear here - previous cell phone or the like on his belt long gone by this time, likely yieldining intel to the killers. This leaves two unexplained fatalities. The one, probably a Borotba security guy who didn't cooperate (ran away after fighting, orders to "kill him" were heard as they chased after...) The other, most foregroun: Totally not militant, dark line around waist suggesting exposure to the fire and whatnot inside ... longer hair and possible underside of left breast suggest this victim might be a woman. Clothing and other build clues, ambiguous (sorry, guy/lady ... we're investigating here...). --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:03, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Memo: Videos, Contributions
We strongly prefer working with high-resolution original videos. Background and (preferably brief and straight to the point) factual explanations and comments are welcomed, in a text format. Any language may be used, we can google-translate, and in crucial cases do native-speaker translation. We do not have resources to support this work, and what we can do ourselves is rather limited. We cannot watch every video out there. We can do brief translations but cannot translate every single thing. For long videos, it helps to know what (with time stamp) to look at. It will help us to have transcripts of videos (original language). If you can also translate for us to English, that helps as well (our working language is English). Further on transcripts:  --Resup (talk) 12:44, 8 October 2014 (UTC)