File talk:MH17 Deviation Map.png

Two Deviations
This graphic shows the small one at Donetsk reported by Russian military and their radar data. Most people talking about a deviation to the north refer to the entire pan-Ukraine flight path, which is another story yet of interest --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:12, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

FlightRadar24 GPS data
Did you create this Adam? I guess you just copied the alleged flight path from the Russian presentation. What is the source of the "planned flight path"?

What is missing from the map is the flight path according to the transponder data, as stored in the FlightRadar24 database. This data shows no deviation. I suppose the first part of the path would be correct.

Also, could you please make the map wider. the last Flightradar24 data point is just east of Snizhne and the town is not even on the map. And pretty please, could you please put more pixels in your images. This map looks tiny on my 2000 pixel wide screen. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 15:23, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

P.S. – I now see your "intended path" follows the waypoint beacons. This is the route transcontinental flights would normally fly, navigating by the beacons. There is one important piece to my theory of GPS manipulation I have failed to mention anywhere. The Indian pilot overheard flight MH17 being given "direct routing".
 * ''This permits an aircraft to fly straight, instead of tracking the regular route which is generally a zig-zag track that goes from one ground-based navigation aid or way point to another.

In direct routing the plane would stop following the beacons an fly by the satellites. This would make it vulnerable to GPS manipulation. It may also point to a wider conspiracy. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 15:42, 31 July 2014 (UTC)


 * For the record, I stretched the Russian graphic to scale on the map and traced both lines from that. The path is jet liner straight line aka great circle. Wider maybe. The last point is probably just wrong - this is radar + debris, so probably real. Expansion for error seems silly. :) --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:13, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Some say this deviation never happened. this article thinks it refers to the whole flight, and shows how it was normal. The question is if the flightradar data shows it. It's a small bump, but does not seem to appear in the graphic there. Other acknowledge it but are pretty sure it's innocent. This article seems to get the nature of the deviation and asked a pilot:
 * What people say:
 * "I heard that they were diverting from some showers," he told The Guardian. "I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission."

That's a prettyl localized storm over Donetsk. What do weather records and video say for the weather? If that doesn't pan out, I suggest the pilot let his imagination runaway as he saw the city of Donetsk coming up and that fighter still on his ass. "He's going to have the separatists shoot me down into their own capitol, isn't he?" In a humanitarian gesture, he turned towards the emptier fields to the north. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:23, 31 July 2014 (UTC)


 * There was lighting - i.e. thunderstorm - at the deviation location just prior to 14:15UTC


 * Thunderstorm Animation
 * --Charles Wood (talk) 01:33, 1 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Interesting. There is one little red dot of that near Donetsk, a larger one further off to the W-SW. But if that's accurate, the small spot that might matter seems a bit north of Donetsk. Trying to compare with this zoomed-out view Maybe not. What do you think? --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:08, 1 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Actual lightning strikes are not necessarily the entire story. They are however indicative of significant weather in the area over a period of a small number of hours. The weather sans lightning may have been sufficient for a local course deviation as shown by the Russian radar tracks.
 * --Charles Wood (talk) 11:16, 1 August 2014 (UTC)


 * True, associated showers are actually cited. It's not cited very clearly, however. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:12, 1 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Dutch pilot says MH17 could have veered off flight path in bad weather
 * MAS operations director Captain Izham Ismail has also refuted claims that heavy weather led to MH17 changing its flight plan.
 * "There were no reports from the pilot to suggest that this was the case," Izham said.

From there, another issue:
 * It has also been reported that MH17 had initially submitted a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000 feet above Ukrainian territory.
 * Upon entering Ukrainian airspace, the pilots were instructed to fly at 33,000 feet by the local air traffic control due to other traffic.