Category talk:Chemical Weapons

U.S. Says Red Line Crossed, Deadly Aid Coming
June 13: Maybe the rebels used CW, maybe in most attacks, even any involving sarin and all those that killed civilians, who knows. But Washington is finally certain the gov. also used some unspecified chemicals, probably sarin, in small amounts, etc. and is planning to send aid to the rebels (currently in a total brutality and desparation meltdown) and/or planning a no-fly zone. Good news: the same air defenses that made a "no-fly zone" unlikely still exist. Probably another tough stance to create more pressure and doom again any thoughts of turning back or acknowledging Syrian sovereignty or victory over the jihadists. --Caustic Logic (talk) 21:58, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Syria Has Used Chemical Arms on Rebels, U.S. and Allies Find
 * US close to approving lethal aid to Syrian rebels this week; no-fly zone unclear


 * There must be some secret order by some secret court that gives him permission to lie like shit. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 05:53, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

More: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:22, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
 * US letter: Syria regime used sarin twice in Aleppo
 * "We've taken two months to reach this, carefully creating the impression of a very careful and deliberative process," Rice should have said. Seriously, why does it taking longer to identify molecules make your political decision more realistic? Ban still sucks. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:06, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

This is the bizarre and Orwellian turn - clearly Aleppo what they (the West) wanted to NOT look at back in March. As Damascus demanded they investigate Aleppo, they insisted on including other attacks and broadening the scope into some regime-changey thing and keeping it all tied together, apparently to avoid looking at the Khan al-Assal attack in Aleppo. Now that they have enough "confidence" (rebels on the verge of defeat) they seize Damascus' high ground and swear that, whatever contradictory evidence (and it's heavy), their intel maneuvers prove both Jabhat al-Nusra attacks in Aleppo are in fact the main proof the red line was crossed and it's time to give al Qaeda an air force or whatever. Put another way, Syria boldly demanded an investigation of their own sarin attack, but the French and Brits and Yanks prevented early proof! How ironic! --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:42, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

34 Suspected Attacks
Syrian expat Rebel doctors - Union of Syrian Medical Relief Organizations - trying their best and making it a mission managed to uncover just over twice as many alleged CW attacks as we have, while likely ignoring a few the rebels alone were blamed for. By "civilians" - 97% of the victims - do they mean rebel fighters, or actual civilians, I wonder? If the latter, the number of dead must be much, much higher than reported to allow for the many apparent fighters shown in case after case. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:10, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * AFP via Daily Star, June 1: Doctors record ‘dozens of chemical attacks’ in Syria
 * ''Referring to a list of 34 suspected attacks, compiled by the group Syrian Human Rights Watch in Cairo, (Tawfik) Chamaa (a founding member of the Union of Syrian Medical Relief Organizations) said the attacks appeared mainly to be carried out by fighter jets, helicopters and long- and mid-range missiles. “And it’s the regime that is in possession of these weapons,” said Chamaa, a Swiss doctor of Syrian origin. “Since 2013, we have seen a huge increase in these attacks, and in recent days attacks with chemical weapons in the suburbs of Damascus are happening practically on a daily basis.”
 * The organization, which has dozens of doctors in field hospitals across Syria, said 97 percent of victims were civilians, and the cases were mainly concentrated in the suburbs of Damascus.
 * The organization, which has dozens of doctors in field hospitals across Syria, said 97 percent of victims were civilians, and the cases were mainly concentrated in the suburbs of Damascus.

(...)
 * ''One of the group’s doctors, oncologist Mousa al-Kurdi, an Englishman, says he was inside Syria, Idlib, when four victims of the Saraqeb incident, all from one family, were brought in, he says looking like Sarin victims. The 50-year-old mother died later, but all survived to his clinic, and past it into Turkey. "Chamaa called this case a unique opportunity for the international community to gain clear proof of chemical weapons use, since numerous samples were taken from all four patients in Turkey. The body of the woman who died remained there." --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:10, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Al-Nusra's 2 Kg of Sarin
This has already been covered elsewhere, will copy over what exists soon. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 2 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Long War Journal/Threat Matrix, May 31: Reports claim Al Nusrah Front members in Turkey were planning sarin gas attacks
 * While Adana mayor Hüseyin Avni Cos denied that the suspects were captured with sarin gas and warned against labeling them as part of any terror organization, the Turkish mainstream dailies Sabah and Milliyet are reporting today that the suspects were in fact members of the al Qaeda-linked Al Nusrah Front and were captured with sarin gas. Sabah reports that they were planning attacks on the Incirlik Air Base in Adana and in Gaziantep, a city near Turkey's border with Syria. Turkish security units have also allegedly received intelligence that three bomb-laden vehicles have entered Turkey from Syria and are planning attacks even larger than the previous one in Reyhanli, and authorities are now on high alert.


 * According to another daily, Radikal, however, the suspects said that they planned to take the materials back to the conflict areas in Syria. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 2 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Inner City Press, May 31: UN Met Syria on New Rep to Damascus, Bank Blockage Raised, Sarin Suspicions
 * After reports of Al-Nusra arrests in Turkey, having sarin gas, Inner City Press asked Ja'afari what he made of it. He said, the US trying to distance itself from Al-Nusra. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

The latest: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:30, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Syria claims sarin seizure at rebel hideout as Russia ‘blocks’ UN's Qusair resolution – RT, May 2, 2013
 * The Syrian Army has seized two containers with poisonous sarin agent in a rebel hideout, SANA said citing sources. Meanwhile, Russia reportedly blocked the UNSC resolution set to slam Damascus’ offensive on the town of Qusair held by opposition forces.
 * Syrian Arab News Agency reports that sarin, together with automatic rifles, pistols and homemade bombs (IEDs) was seized in the Faraieh neighborhood of the city of Hama.
 * (video)

Some more details from Christof Lehmann. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:56, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Syrian Military seizes Sarin Gas from ” rebels “

There have been five "Al-Qaeda" men busted, "with help of foreign intelligence agencies", said to run a Sarin production at three places in Baghdad and rural Iraq. High-flying plans of attacking Europe etc, guess its all over the news but I read it in this German article from yesterday. --CE (talk) 22:18, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Al-Nusra Plastic Grenades
Petri first brought this here, and it's awesome. We have an astute photographer, Jeffry Ruigendijk, and Eliot Higggins/Brown Moses to thank. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:28, 9 May 2013 (UTC) Brown Moses today: Source: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:46, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Jabhat Al-Nusra Photographed With "Chemical Weapons" – 8 May 2013
 * Jabhat Al Nusra with 'chemical weapons' – Ruig Photography

It seems the same style of unknown grenade turned up after two chemical attacks, in Sheikh Maqsoud, Aleppo, April 13 and in Saraqeb, Idleb province, April 29. It looks like a white plastic body with top of metal and plastic, gas-emitting and non-exploding type, so intact afterwards and photographed in each case (that was news to me for the latter case). Then Ruigendijk saw those and it clicked with a photo he took in Syria of some real asshole Al-Nusra guy in that sort of area (but closer to the NATO border). He was some kind of rule-enforcer I guess, real self-impressed Jihad hero guy, who had on his chest, displayed and at the ready a dagger, handcuffs, and one of these grenades. There are a few question marks right there, but... One notion I like (see comments) is that they were whipped up on one of these 3-D printers and thus won't even appear in the weapons guide books. Where it comes from is then supposed to be some big mystery. What's in them is not entirely clear. I guess the Turks might know, but they aren't telling us yet, and may never tell the truth. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:28, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Idelb Incident, around May 1
(misspelling left as a reminder to watch that middle-letters dylsexia) --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:52, 2 May 2013 (UTC) Cotnent moved to Talk:Alleged Chemical Attack, April 29, 2013 --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:52, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Syria Accuses Turkey
About time.First source, not best: Talk Radio News Service, Syria Blames West For Chemical Weapons Attacks As UN Investigates From Afar, April 26. The UN investigation is investigating, the report says. On Cyprus, fine for a start. They can go to Khan Al-Assal whenever they want, and Geneva or New York already has evidence sent to them. Anyway, the meat:
 * Assad government officials Friday rejected U.S. and British allegations Damascus had used its chemical arsenal against opposition fighters, and instead accused Turkey of allowing rebels to transfer chemical weapons across the border into Syria.

Is that really all it says? Well, here's a space for that issue. Should be good, eventually. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:35, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

British MI6 operation
I did not know British MI6 agents were operating in Syria:
 * Chemical weapons used in Syria: the first evidence – The Times, April 13 2013 (Original source)
 * Forensic evidence of chemical weapons use in Syria has been found for the first time in a soil sample smuggled out of the country in a secret British operation.
 * Defence sources, who declined to be named, said yesterday that conclusive proof that “some kind of chemical weapon” had been fired in Syria had been established by scientists at the Ministry of Defence’s chemical and biological research establishment at Porton Down in Wiltshire.
 * The discovery, which had not been made public, will put pressure on the United States to consider punitive action against President Assad. The White House warned in December...


 * British scientists 'find evidence of Syrian chemical attack' – The Telegraph, April 12 2013
 * The tests at Porton Down reportedly concluded that the chemical traces were from a weapon rather than gas sometimes used by the Syrian security forces to put down protests.


 * UK ‘confirms’ use of chemical weapons in Syria after secret MI6 op – report – RT, April 13, 2013
 * The UK Ministry of Defense has claimed that chemical weapons were used in the Syrian conflict. Forensic evidence was collected after scientists analyzed soil smuggled out of the country in a secret British operation, the Times reported.
 * The sample was reportedly extracted from a neighborhood on the outskirts of Damascus in March by MI6 agents operating within Syria, the Australian reported at the time.


 * Arutz Sheva, 4/14/2013 UK Finds Proof of Use of Chemical Weapons in Syria – Arutz Sheva, 4/14/2013
 * UK says that chemical weapons were used in the Syrian conflict, after scientists analyzed soil smuggled out of the country.


 * ‘Soil sample proves chemical weapons used in Syria’
 * The sample, said to be taken from a neighborhood on the outskirts of Damascus, was delivered to the UK Ministry of Defense’s chemical and biological research establishment at Porton Down in Wiltshire, where it was identified as containing traces of “some kind of chemical weapon.”

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 04:42, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Excellent, Petri, thanks! Was not up to getting up to speed on this yet, this list helps. Porton Down and British spies snagging dirt were reported before, after Khan Al-Assal (March 19). There, no CW, just "super-power tear gas," they speculated, prior to completing the testing. Because otherwise, it looked like rebel chlorine ... Here, they scientifically and cautiously cannot say what chemical/molecules and stuff. Not for sure Sarin. But definitely a regime-type chemical, probably. Of course. The sample is from near Porton Down, I suspect. Maybe Watership Down, and it's rabbit poison. --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:05, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Possible/Sorta CW Incidents
After the March 24 incident proved so baseless, and this apparent new one of March 28 looks the same, I decided I won't start new pages unless warranted by some further evidence. All those reported from now could be entered with a sub-section here, and explored. Some might get their own page, others just that section here. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

I completely forgot about this philosophy when starting the page on the shaky Alleged chemical attack, April 9, 2013. But the one four days later was more solid, has actual dead humans (two infants and a woman) and deserves its own page. --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:06, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

March 28, Daraya
Youtube video I stumbled across: خطير داريا حالات اختناق بغازات الفوسفور جراء القصف 28-3-2013 (Gtrans: Darya cases of suffocation dangerous gases phosphorus shelling). Channel: DaryaRevlution coordinating city Darya Syrian revolution in Damascus, follow on Facebook. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

May, Qusayr
May 4, FSA spokesman Louay Meqdad says they're still investigating before announcing whether, in fact, Hezbollah shelled Qusayr GM with mustard gas. See Al-Arabiya. Cool side-quote with a bit added:
 * Hezbollah is using these sectarian excuses to drag Lebanese youth into the Syrian conflict,” Almokdad said, urging Lebanon's Sunnis to rise up and help fight the Alawite regime and the Israeli-backed Shi'ite conspiracy. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:41, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Poison Gas Missile on Video!!!
Found at Right Side News (anti-war via anti-Obama) - an article with hits and misses, worth a look. On this, they say: '"Even if we examine the sources in Arabic we find that the reporting on this story is usually done by masters of confusion. For example, how can an FSA reporter film an exploded chemical rocket at a close distance and remain alive?" ICHQIKQPiU4 By chanting Allahu Akbar, clearly. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:27, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

My Article
For readers, I am also named Adam Larson (real name) and I wrote this May 2 article at Global Research: Was the Syria Chemical Weapons Probe “Torpedoed” by the West?. It's been read and re-posted a bit. Just saw the following:
 * Brown Moses, May 8: Comments On The Use Of Chemical Weapons In Syria
 * ''I should start this post by saying that in the past I've found much of what's been posted on Global Research to[o] be far to conspiratorial for my liking, and in many cases just plain nonsense (for example this piece), so when I say this piece is a good round up of reports of chemical weapon use in Syria, it's not something I say lightly.
 * As this post is a partly response to the article Was the Syria Chemical Weapons Probe “Torpedoed” by the West?, it's best to start giving that a read. While I may not agree with some of the conclusion the article draws,...

The critique is of technical aspects and my characterization of Khan al-Assal (which seem fair), leading into his interesting weapons correlation. Nothing on the main content, just riding my famous article's coat tails. :) --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:15, 9 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree with Brown Moses on the Green Square issue. I have always found it best to steer away from Gaddafi supporters claiming that Green Square jubilation was a media hoax filmed in Qatar – days and weeks after Tripoli was taken. (Some people still seem to believe this.)
 * Me too,of course. Silliness. They also promoted the Sept. 11 Pentagon non-jet hoax theories. Not perfect but a prominent platform with a majority of pretty good stuff. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:33, 10 June 2013 (UTC)


 * As to rockets, BM is wrong in dismissing the ranges of BM-21 Grad projectiles. Some of these can fly over 40 km. The rocket in the video could also be some variation of the Palestinian / Hamas Qassam rocket. The Qassam 4 may have equal range. If Syria says the rocket was fired from "Al-Bab" it does not have to be 47km away, but whatever the closest rebel position is. Unless the Syrian Army establishes full control over Al-Bab, it is unlikely to be more then 20 km away. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 15:20, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Tighter, updated, improved edit drafted May 4. Was supposed to be run, but now online at the CIWCL site. A good read. Middle part has the "new" stuff, April 3-5. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:33, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

UN investigations

 * Moved to Talk:UN chemical weapons investigations