Talk:Halfaya Bakery Bombing

Video-Based Assessment
This is a complex scene, with many videos, all similar and easy to confuse. There are ostensible de-bunks, but personally I think they're too hasty and in time we can do way better. But there is good reason to arrange a good list below for reference. I have a better list on file here I'll copy over. Points can be then cited for things like this:

Non-Combattant Victims?
(answer is yes -specifics will matter)

Unsorted
No list yet, but no problem finding them. Several views, many re-posts, one main area. A few notes: some victims are blown-up badly, some body parts are about-a foot near blast center, a man from the chest up several yards away, etc. They are generally lined-up along the sidewalk as if waiting in line, perhaps. Perhaps all the dead seem to be men and maybe a few teenage boys. Some could be rebel fighters, but others might wear army uniforms. Some are in civilian clothes and seem too old and professional to be fighters either way. One man was wearing nothing but blue bikini briefs while waiting in line, it seems. Piled execution victims might explain part of this mess. Explosives cover other parts - the 4-foot hole in the street, parking spot, right by the sidewalk. Masonry all around, big chunks. A pile of dirt thrown up, half-burying some people. Interestingburn/chemical marks on the building's facade. No clear sign this was a bakery. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:47, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Videos
8:23, by freesyria7, Dec. 23 Compilation: Rebel fighter speaking (before attack?), Rebels clearing the street and wailing after the clean-up (both short), then a long night scene with icky stuff – bodies laid out in front of some building – why? Bright lights do come in. One body is little more than a spine and pelvis. A boy is missing the top half of his head, etc. Finally, scenes of the alleged injured being treated. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:42, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * HDريف حماه | حلفايا | 23-12-2012| حثث المجزرة و الجرحى


 * One video: No clear sign it's a bakery except of course the blood-free tortilla (flatbread, whatever) seen being scooped up from, or dropped on, a pool of blood in some photos I saw around. Definitely being dropped in this video. Fake Bakery Massacre in Halfaya Actually a Successful Strike on Terrorists. Not so sure that conclusion is right, but the bread fakery is interesting. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:47, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

As I posted on the forum - Urs did the job already. Fake as can be. Planted bread. See here. Also already an article based on her research here. There's a good chance that syrianews.cc will translate it soon, they have done so with a couple of articles from that blog. Heading for "the woods" in a couple of minutes, cya. --CE (talk) 14:04, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Merry times, CE! I'll be working through today still, catch it when you get back.--Caustic Logic (talk) 22:14, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * And as I said there, I'll start with second-guessing. I'll agree the dead are mostly rebels and hardcore Khaffiyeh-wearing ones from many countries. But the rest...

From Facebook
This was posted on Facebook:


 * First of all, this is full version of video filmed by FSA members after explosion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SD4rO4E8KNM. The media and "activists" claim that 60, 90 and even 300 people were killed by "air strike", including children and women (I saw only one injured woman on video). All the victims are men and some of them in camouflage. And now look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey2yNvh6sAA&feature=youtu.be.


 * Member of FSA gangs throws the bread in a pool of blood with words "On the blood, on the blood!". On the right picture you can see how they film this moment. Why? Look at left picture and on the building on the video. The explosion occurred inside the building and roof of the building is almost not affected. Air strike without a crater of the explosion and without affected roof?


 * And now compare all the information. UN representative Brahimi's visit in Syria (as usual "massacres" occur day before meeting on Syria in UN or a visit in Syria), explosion and "hysterics" in media. According to information from Halfaya, this time one of FSA brigade used dead bodies of another armed group with whom they had some "disagreements" for next "massacre" in media. One armed group placed explosive device in or near a building (a bakery) where members of other group gathered and blew it up. This is why they throw the bread in a pool of blood - just for pictures in media.


 * Hey, quick return, and Merry not-Christmas anymore! My analysis (forthcoming) disagrees with the above. The hit appears to be from a distance, perpendicular to building face, making the small crater iun the street and plowing the dirt forward. Building damage is limited, except to the metal shutters nearest the hit, crumpled up inside. In fact, it looks like a rocket or artillery strike, as alleged (along with other things that aren't supported - like 100-300 dead, for one) --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:17, 26 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Videos:
 * Tens of martyrs in the Halfaya +18 – Original rebel video in full version: numerous ratmobiles, armed rebels in camo
 * 18+ Syria pt4 Halfaya Bakery Shoppers Massacred in Assad MIG Bombing Attack on town 12-23-12 – Bodies laid on pickup truck
 * copy
 * debunk
 * Halfaya - lied and quackery: a den of terrorists or "oven" for baking?
 * Army operation targeting Syrian Arab terrorists - Halfaya
 * Halfaya: See how This Aeraour puts bread to complete the play
 * Massacre Hlvaip and exploitation of bread to mislead

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:56, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Car Bombing False Lead
A side-note on the screen-grab used up-front: that was as it appeared shortly before 4:52, 24 December 2012. When I checked later, the video freeze-frame is different. I didn't watch the video either time to see if it had changed, or just the still. Just in case it might be of significance, I've noted it. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:03, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Another: It's not up-front. It's unrelated. Here it is, FWIW:

One useful clue as to the initial explosion, before the rocket and artillery attacks, is this screen grab of the CNN story with the video still as it first appeared before hitting play: One of the bombs dropped by the alleged warplanes apparently landed right in the trunk of this car. It's all aflame, its back end blow up and off its axle.

The video was an earlier one app. containing other scenes mixed-in. The one there now has no such scene, and no videos of the aftermath have such a scene. The one shown seems to be this Damascus car bombing, Dec. 22: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK2T1bZ5Z-k