Talk:Latakia Massacres

Rebel attack in Latakia

 * Moved from Talk:Tal Abyad massacre

This seems to be somehow related to the events.
 * Syrian rebels push advance into Assad heartland – F. Najia, 6 August 2013
 * Syrian rebels are pushing toward President Bashar al-Assad's hometown of Qardaha in Latakia province.
 * By Monday, the second day of their surprise offensive in the heartland of Assad's minority Alawite-cum-Shiite sect, the rebels had captured some 11 Alawite villages.
 * The villages include Aramo, 20 kilometers from Qardaha, and Baruda, where the rebels seized visiting Alawite cleric Badreddin Ghazal, a diehard Assad militant.
 * You can see above a photo of Sheikh Ghazal in military fatigue standing alongside Mihraç Ural aka Ali al-Kayyali, the man I dubbed in May “the ethnic cleanser of Banias,” who was also suspected of masterminding the twin Turkish bombings in Reyhanli.

This Facebook post gives a long list of victims (71 killed + 32 kidnapped people):
 * Names of the victims of the massacres which wiped out entire families, committed by #Al_Nusra_Front backed by hundreds of terrorists from ( ‪#‎Baghdad_and_Al_Sham_Islamic_State_Army‬ ) terrorist group against the civillians in 8 villages in the countryside north-eastern city of ‪#‎Latakia‬ and ‪#‎Slenfeh‬.
 * This happened at the dawn of Sunday 4/8/2013:
 * Victims names in village "‪#‎Nabata‬": (13 names)
 * Names of kidnapped people from village "#Nabata": (23 names)
 * Victims names in village "‪#‎Alhmbushiah‬" mostly children: (25 names)
 * Names of kidnapped people from village "#Alhmbushiah" by Al-Nusra Front: (9 names)
 * Victims names in village "‪#‎AlBalouta‬", Where entire families were wiped out: (18 names)
 * Names of the kidnapped people from this village are not known yet.
 * Victims names in village "‪#‎Bermseh‬" (4 names + 8 children)
 * Names of the kidnapped people from this village are not known yet.
 * Victims names in village of "‪#‎Abu_Mecki‬": (3 names)
 * I could not document more information about the fate of this village.
 * Village "‪#‎Aubin‬" was burned by the terrorists and we don't know anything about the civilians fate there, yet.
 * Village "‪#‎Esterbeh‬" close to ‪#‎Salma‬. the civilians escaped but the terrorists occupied the village.

What "connects" the events is this article by Voice of Russia:
 * Syrian rebels have stepped over the red line – 6 August
 * Mass killings of hostages by militants in the Syrian opposition have become their main method of tactical actions in the civil war in Syria.
 * The worst reports came in recent days of the north-east Syria, from the Kurdish areas. About 450 hostages have been killed there. About 120 of them were children, the others were women and the elderly. The hostages were family members of the Kurdish militia, which is leading a fierce battle with the extremists. But terrorist units surrounded the Kurdish areas to the north of Aleppo. About a million people were under siege.

The Swedish language version (and Hungarian) of the story names Alawites as the victims and Badreddin Gazzal as one of the kidnapped:
 * The Islamists' method in Syria resembles increasingly religious and ethnic cleansing. According to Arab TV channels, soldiers from Jabhat al-Nusra and the Islamic State has about 400 Alawites hostage in the country's northern regions. Women, children and old people have been in the direction of the Turkish border. 80-year-old Badreddin Gazzal, one of the spiritual leaders of Alawites is also among them.

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:55, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Najm al-Din Azad and his Photos
Najm al-Din/Alden Azad ("نجم الدين آزاد" in Arabic) is new to us. On his Twitter account, he's been posting - then removing - pictures of slaughtered infidels in Latakia, apparently claiming to be involved, and sharing photos of his days fighting in Afghanistan in the 1980s, where he lost half his right leg. He's a character. A few articles:--Caustic Logic (talk) 11:54, 11 August 2013 (UTC) and --Caustic Logic (talk) 03:04, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * http://www.southlebanon.org/?p=82188
 * https://www.facebook.com/coastsy.news/posts/481033878651109 here, he's an "Afghan called "Najm al-Din Azad." Possibly tagged by photos of Afghanistan-when it's the tourists, not the natives, most likely to be snapping pictures. Back at it again. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:54, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
 * http://sabinachiaburu.wordpress.com/2013/08/09/syrian-civilians-in-lattakya-killed-by-the-freedom-fighters-of-saudi-arabia-in-syria/ "according to Asia news agency that revealed his real name to be as Adel Al-Outaybi."
 * Saudi Arabia and the new schemes in Syria and Lebanon (1/2) Aug. 11, Arabic. Google translated excerpt:
 * Afeta has had a number of tapes and photographs published on the social networking sites, which show the horrible and barbaric what the terrorists are doing today in this region, which is not a military objective worth of the attack. Perhaps the last of these tapes is published by the terrorist Saudi famous "Najm al-Din Azad", one of the first generation of Afghan Arabs, on his account in Twitter of pictures of some civilians in the villages of rural Latakia, who boasted that he oversaw the slaughter himself, according to the news agency Asia on 9 -8-2013.


 * The real name for "Najm al-Din Azad" is "Adel Al-Otaibi," income was about two months ago to the Syrian territory and fighting within the battalion "Ezz hawks" which is considered a cornerstone of the most egregious criminal battalions in the Syrian coast. The pictures showed (disgusting) presented by Azad on his Twitter account, has been mostly civilians to be slaughtered with a knife from their necks, in one of the villages that have occurred over the past few days clashes. 

Adel Al-Outaybi, per the last two sources (citing an original source we haven't located yet) is probably related to Juhayman al-Uteybi, a colorful characeter (blacked-out) from Saudi Arabian history, who was beheaded just as the pipleline of malcontents - including other Utaybis - was turned away from inward, and onto commie invaders half a world away in Afghanistan. Back at it again. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:54, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, Uteybi is an Ikhwan tribe, known 100 years ago for slicing open pregnant women, as one report says happened in Latakia (and prev. in al-Bayda...) FWIW. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:54, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Asia news, original article - I think I found it. Already did one but lost it again, had to dig all over. It's a Lebanese site, Asianewslb.com, with a cedar tree in the A. August 8, 3:25. Google translated, one repair:--Caustic Logic (talk) 00:22, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Pictures .. Saudi jihadist recognize the slaughter of civilians in the countryside of Lattakia
 * Issued "Free Army" on the Syrian coast, a statement in which it undertakes, he said, to protect all civilians, and all of them asylum requests from families.
 * (said to target only military, not civilians, and denounced lies to the contrary)
 * In the meantime, Saudi jihadist was the famous "Najm al-Din Azad" one of the henchmen of global jihad, and the first generation of Afghan Arabs, published on his Twitter account photographs of some civilians in the villages of the countryside of Latakia, who boasted that he oversaw the massacre himself.


 * Knowing that "Najm al-Din Azad", whose real name "Adel Al-Otaibi" turnoff for nearly two months to the Syrian territory and fighting within the battalion Hawks splendor, which is an essential element of the battalions Islamic militant in the Syrian coast and is led by Saudi Arabia, "Saqr Jihad," which was published by some media news for his death under the name "Abdul Aziz Said," a story is not true as a battalion commander Hawks Ezz still alive where spotted Agency Asia new updates on his Twitter after widespread news of his death, in addition to that it can not be stressed that the real name of Saqr Jihad is Abdulaziz Said may be intended by the media someone else.


 * The pictures show presented by Azad on his Twitter account, civilians, most of them have been subjected to slaughter knife from their necks, in an unnamed village Azad, and clashes that have occurred over the past few days.


 * Has confirmed Azad in Ngredath that the bodies of the dead filled the streets in the villages over the course of his participation in the clashes, with reference to that Azad had lost his leg a long time ago and travels by motorbike.

Photos Discussion
Great adds, all packaged up, thanks for that. The dude is a person of interest. I haven't examined these yet, but I will. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:58, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Where are the photos? --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:01, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, got disoriented. Things were moved. Getting re-oriented, will see if I like. Talk page, talking. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:03, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

I was just getting ready to do some analysis on these, checked the original source, and they're gone. Someone suggested it might be helpful if the "freedom fighters" aren't showing half-decpitated soldiers and executed civilians. Luckily all (?) have been saved around at different resolutions. We have most but not all up here in the best resolution available (thanks, Petri). More later... --Caustic Logic (talk) 03:04, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Civilian Captives
There's already a partly filled-in section for this on the front page, but more details and discussion might be needed, so I'm making a place here. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:18, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Unless aired by Al-Jazeera for Latakia Fascinating video, found by Petri, of Islamists filmed by al Jazeera, apparently for a show they decided not to air. See image below of some of the prisoners who were set up as a backdrop for the masked terrorist on the front porchShort video, full translation, thanks to a friend:
 * Reporter: I am standing near the village Qardahah, which is the birthplace of al-Assad. Around Qardahah there are many villages and towns, they are pro-Syrian regime. The Islamic battalions forces in this region are trying to control these villages and towns in a battle called (Aisha, the mother of believers). They managed So far to control  11 towns and killed many of the regime's forces and captured dozens. 
 * the reporter, like the rebels, was playing up how close they were to Qardaha. Yeah, close enough there's a signs saying it's that way. Another points to Aleppo, so what? --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:22, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The lady says: We are the people of the villages Al-Hmboushiya, An-Nabata, Gota (?), Berseh, Baruda, Alkharatah (?). We were taken by the Mujahideen. they captured us when they were in our villages. We will not be released unless the Syrian regime let the mujahedin prisoners out ... we are about 105. And they treat us well. We demand  the international community and the Syrian authorities to work to  release us in exchange for the release of prisoners of Mujahideen.


 * Masked terrorist says: thanks and praise of God we broke into Burj An-Nabata and a number of neighboring villages, we found fierce resistance from the Shabiha of these villages. Thanks to God we broke into these villages and found women and children. Men had fled and left the women and children. We captured women and children, and put them in a good place and good health care ... and we treat them according to Islamic law and the Islamic religion...
 * Which in their minds fully allows for non-Sunni women, found or taken in battle, to be kept as sexslaves, whatever they may think. Nice story here. They killed "Shabiha," often code for armed Alawite men. After that, the civilian men were gone, cowards leaving behind their cherished families to become war booty. In fact, they killed some of their own kin right before the Mujahideen arrived.If only they'd been faster! --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:22, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * ...I remember an incident in one of the houses ... we found that a father killed 3 sons and one remained wounded but alive. We treat them better than their parents, no shortage of anything, and soon communications will be delivered to them to communicate with their families. Our demands: We have people locked up in Latakia and other places and therefore we demand the exchange of prisoners to free these women.
 * And if their terms aren't met, well, they will be treated in accordance with Islamic law, I guess. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:22, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Badreddin Ghazal
One pro-rebel source, F. Najia, noted happily on August 6:
 * By Monday, the second day of their surprise offensive ... the rebels had captured some 11 Alawite villages (including) Baruda, where the rebels seized visiting Alawite cleric Badreddin Ghazal, a diehard Assad militant.

This Alawite cleric doubling as a militia member, probably more of a picture poser than real fighter (he was 80 years old by some reports), was a popular figure rallying the Alawite community to confident self-defense. Ghazal was shown by Najia in military fatigues "standing alongside Mihraç Ural aka Ali al-Kayyali, the man I dubbed in May “the ethnic cleanser of Banias,” who was also suspected of masterminding the twin Turkish bombings in Reyhanli."

The "ethnic cleansing" of May, 2013, which he was linked to by that photo, has been examined at this site on the pages for Al-Bayda Massacre and Baniyas massacre, in Sunni dominated area of Alawite-heavy Tartous province (south of Latakia). The most prominent victim with the most relatives slaughtered - sheikh Omar Biassi, imam of al-Bayda's mosue - was a stubborn government loyalist Sunni. There is, to go with that, much evidence the rebels of the al-Bayda and Baniyas area, not the security forces, oversaw the mass-killings of civilians there. Ghazal's comrade Ural did speak of cleansing the area, but clearly he meant of the terorists - Sunni as it so happens - who they believed were the ones hacking people's faces open on their turf. The other alleged Ural crime is a terrorist car bombing in terrorist-infested Reyhanli, so ... --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:34, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

The alleged serious criminal was slated to help free some women held by the military, F. Najia reported on the 6th: "there is already talk of a “prisoner swap” underway, which would see Ghazal released in exchange for setting free the women held by Assad’s shabiha in Latakia’s sports stadium." (That's a case we have no info on yet) Instead, some reports say, he was tortured and killed shortly after his capture. The pro-government and well-informed Syrian Perspective blog reported on August 19 a near-angelic portrait (inset, bottom) captioned "Shaykh Badruddeen Al-Ghazaal,  tortured and murdered, on August 5, 2013, and left to rot, by Obama's "freedom fighters".  His body was covered with blood.  This is the work of the miscreant, Anti-Christ, Barack Obama." --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:34, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Aug.26, SOHR reports:
 * Latakia province: reports that al-Nusra front assassinated the A'lawi Shek and Mufti Badr Ghazal, who was kidnapped on the 5th of this month after rebel fighters stormed several A'lawi villages in northern Reef Latakia. Ghazal appeared alive in a footage taken by al-Nusra front and appeared as well in other pictures lying on the ground shot dead.

I have yet to see these photos. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:07, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

For Mother Syria
An August 7 Facebook post by the pro-government "For Mother Syria" contains an advanced summary of the killings so far, published in English, with "Names of the victims of the massacres which wiped out entire families, committed by #Al_Nusra_Front backed by hundreds of terrorists from (#Baghdad_and_Al_Sham_Islamic_State_Army ) terrorist group against the civillians in 8 villages in the countryside north-eastern city of #Latakia and #Slenfeh. This happened at the dawn of Sunday 4/8/2013" The list they share is as follows, I counted 104 entries: --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:00, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, was a bit slow to get the format here. For each town is listed people killed, then people abducted (fates very threatened), except where that's unknown. So 104 refers to know names in both categories. As noted, quite incomplete so far. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:05, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Victims names in village "#Nabata": (block listings hereafter?) --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:22, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) - Hafez Mehrez Shehadeh, 80 years old.
 * 2) - Kamal Mohammed Shehadeh and his wife and their three children:
 * 3) Rend a 11-year-old girl.
 * 4) Nasr 9 years.
 * 5) Mohammed 7 years.
 * 6) - Jafar alSheikh .... a child of 4 years,he was scared so he asked for water to drink ..., a bearded man stabbed him to death.
 * 7) - Yassin Najdat Shehadeh.
 * 8) - Jaudat Shehadeh.
 * 9) - Emad El Sheikh.
 * 10) - Tamadur Salim Shehadeh,17 years old.
 * 11) -Khitam Adeeb Shehadeh.
 * 12) - Ibrahim AlSheikh.

Names of kidnapped people from village "#Nabata": 1 - Hajja Sheikh Ibrahim (Hafiz Shehadeh's wife). 2- Fahima Mohamed Osman. 3- Ramza al Sheikh and (4)her daughter Tayma. 5- Child: Amer Ghassan Yahya 6- Ahmed Shehadeh and (7) his wife Shaza Hattab and (8) their little baby :9 months old. 9- Ali Hattab 10- Kazem Mehrez Shehadeh and (11) his wife Dyaa Sweid and their three children: (12)Ola - (13)Haider - (14) Zain: one year old. 15- Mona Fatima (Kidnapped After they slaughtered her husband) 17- Samara alSheikh. 18- Lotus alSheikh. 19- Marah alSheikh. 20- Anaam alSheikh, 13 years old. 21- Bashar al-Sheikh,11 years old. 22- Ahmed Alhiekh. 23- Aktham AlSheikh.

Victims names in village "#Alhmbushiah" mostly children: 1- Hani Shakouhi. 2- Hamza Maryam. 3-Tahir Maryam. 4- Munther Darwish. 5- Hala: Munther Darwish' wife, she was pregnant, the terrorists cut her stomach after killing her and grabbed the baby out and threw him away. 6- Ayman Maryam (a little boy). 7- Lina Qadera (a little girl). 8- Ahmad Maryam (a little boy). 9- Refaat Maryam. 10-Dalaa Maryam (a little girl). 11-Marah Maryam (a little girl). 12-Farah Maryam (a little girl). 13- Mohammad Maryam (a little boy). 14- Jaafar Ismail (a little boy). 15- Wesal Tamer. 16- Taim Shakouhi (one year old boy). 17- Tamer Shakouhi (3 years old boy). 18- Lamia Shehadeh and all of her children. 19- Intesar Maryam. 20- Asrar Maryam. 21- Narjes Maryam. 22- Wahieb Maryam. 23- Nazier Arifu. 24- Adel Maryam. 25- Wael Maryam.

Names of kidnapped people from village "#Alhmbushiah" by Al-Nusra Front: 1- Fadel Shakouhi. 2- Wazifa Shakouhi. 3- Kenanah Shakouhi. 4- Afief Shakouhi. 5- Moustafa Shakouhi. 6- Faten Maryam. 7- Wedad Maryam. 8- Elien Maryam. 9- Doaa Maryam.

Victims names in village "#AlBalouta" ,Where entire families were wiped out : 1- Azab Salim. 2-Taim Salim (1 year old). 3- Sameir Salim. 4- Haider Salim. 5- Wafik Ibrahim and his 3 children: 6- Shadi Ibrahim. 7- Meqdad Ibrahim. 8- Ghaidaq Ibrahim. 9- Nihad Deip. 10- Fawzia Deip. 11- Ghadir Deip. 12- Amjad Deip. 13- Ziena Deip 14- Ziad Deip (1 year old). 15- Hussein Ibrahim. 16- Mariam Ibrahim. 17- Zahra Ibrahim. 18- Ismail Ibrahim.

Names of the kidnapped people from this village are not known yet.

Victims names in village "#Bermseh" 1- Solaiman Fatima and (2) his wife Samira Ghanem. 3- Mohamed Fatima and (4)his wife Fekriah Yassin. 5- Nadi Fatima, and (6) his wife and (7) (8) their two sons. 9- Basem Fatima and (10) his wife and (11)(12)(13) their 3 children.

Names of the kidnapped people from this village are not known yet.

Victims names in village of "#Abu_Mecki": 1- Asaad Solaiman Qadra. 2- Mohamed Kamel Qadra. 3- Faeqa Haidar, a school teacher.

I could not document more information about the fate of this village.

Village "#Aubin" was burned by the terrorists and we don't know anything about the civilians fate there, yet.

Village "#Esterbeh" close to #Salma. the civilians escaped but the terrorists occupied the village.

These information are documented but it's not the final and complete report.

SCDV
The Syrian Center for Violations of Documentation (SCDV) doesn't seem to list any, or many, of these reported victims. They have three relevant databases when massacres, fighting, and hostage taking occur as all reportedly did: Martyrs (civilians and rebels, generally everyone killed by the regime), regime forces fatalities (not martyrs, no cause), and detainees. Each of these I checked for Lattakia, August 4-10 (arbitrarily). --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:39, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * "Martyrs" 43:
 * Mainly (37 out of 43) this seems to be rebel fighters killed in some "clashes with regime's army" in the area, including places like Amarow (like Mohammad Yehya Shamdeen, shot August 7). The remaining 6 civilian victims in a week of fighting, all adult males, no familiar names. (Naseef x 2, Fedow, Ibrahim, Ammar, Jbara). --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:39, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Regime forces fatalities
 * Here is where our reported massacre names appear. Shihada: Sharaf Aziz Shihada, Cause of Death	4, Rank	Shooting (elsewhere, First Lieutenant), location Qurdaha (!) August 8. Then there's Shakohy, appears prominently: one is a policeman, another is too, one's a first lieutenant, one a brigadier general (earliest killed, Aug.4), one unknown, and another, the big list says, is FSA. All killed in "Hiffa: Shakohy" (Beit Shakuhi, I guess?), mostly on Aug. 6, as part of "regime's army." Town family of a family town, it seems. Kids were killed, not listed here.    --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:39, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Detainees (hostages): 0. None reported to them. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:39, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I forgot Missing! That's the perfect category to vaguely document there's a chance that person's dead but our rebel sources don't want to claim any knowledge. Latakia, Aug 4-10, all classes of people listed: zero results. They went for not reporting them at all. Hey, SCDV, they're holding out on you! --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:42, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Also, to note: I was curious what expanding the searchpast Aug 10 would do, considering the fighting that raged at least until the 18th. Latakia, Aug. 11-18, the following week martyrs, including rebel fighters, Libyan emirs, civilans acknoledged as massacred or killed in crossfire, etc. Two; a rebel fighter (non-civilian), a suspected rebel seen dead on video, apparently shot by soldiers, either executed or as he ran, or tried to shoot, we don't know. Both died on or by August 11, and that was it, seven days of nothing reported. regime forces killed, Latakia, Aug 11-18 - Hm, 12. Some are from there but killed elsewhere. Some were killed in the Latakia suburbs, it says. One Shabih, several unknowns. No one, it seems, in Jabal Akhrad. As soon as they're nothing to brag about, they stop documenting. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:42, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Maryam Family
All listed on Aug. 7 are from Alhmbushiah - 15 killed of the 25 listed, with two others possibly married in and some children of odd names: Hamza, Tahir, Ayman, Ahmad, Refaat, Dalaa, Marah, Farah, Mohammed, Intesar, Asrar, Narjes, Wahieb, Adel, Wael. Kidnapped, 4 out of nine: Faten, Wedad, Eilen, Doaa.

Shakuhi Family
This family stands out for possibly having a town named after them, or vice-versa,. One of the contested villages is Beit Shakuhi, for which the Aug. 7 reports have nothing to say, but which the government was forced to re-conquer, which it did by Aug. 16. Beit means house, house of Shakohi, and there is a Shakouhi family targeted, but with at least three victims listed in Alhmbushiah: Hani, Taim Shakouhi (one year old boy), Tamer Shakouhi (3 years old boy). Others were kidnapped in Alhmbushiah: 5 out of nine: Fadel, Wazifa, Kenanah, Afief, Moustafa.

The SCDV also lists members of a Shakohy family killed in early August, including a (different?) Hani, killed... not clear where, but from "Hiffa: Shakohy." Hiffa/Haffa is the closest big town to the one in question (2 km southwest), so it's likely the same place. Somehow, he's described as FSA (in the big list cited here, for "regime forces fatalities" not "martyrs." Then there's William, no clear match above, a policeman from Shakohy, Ayham, anther cop from that same town, and Baha, a first lieutenant. Consider Asif (not the kidnapped Afief we hope?), rank unknown, from Shakohy, shot August 6. The others also were all killed that same day. The one exception, killed August 4 as the assault started, Brigadier General Ayman Shakohy from Shakohy, killed by shooting, probably in Shakohy like the rest. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:21, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

The targeted town family of a family town, it almost seems. Some on the SCDV regime forces list were from this area, but killed while fighting elsewhere. These are too many from one family and town getting shot the same day, with no location aside from home specified. Soldiers/non-civilian perhaps, but they were massacred in their hometown as civilians/off-duty, as they were when rebel rolled through in the dark hours unannounced. Those in the security field were duly listed as victories who deserved it, their wives and little kids... there's no SCDV list yet for that class of victim. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:29, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Shehadeh Family
Listed on August 7 as killed in an-Nabata, 10: Hafez Mehrez age 80, Kamal Mohammed, his wife, children Rend 11, Nasr 9, Mohammed 7 - Yassin Najdat, Jaudat, Tamadur Salim, Khitam Adeeb - Kidnapped Nabata (10): Hajja Sheikh Ibrahim (Hafiz Shehadeh's wife), Ahmed, his wife Shaza Hattab, their little baby 9m, Ali Hattab, Kazem Mehrez, his wife Dyaa Sweid, their three children: (12)Ola - (13)Haider - (14) Zain: one year old. - Kidnapped in Alhmbushiah: Lamia Shehadeh and all of her children (unclear if those are the following entries, meaning she married a Maryam)

This family also has a possible listing at the SCDV, regime forces list. Compared to the Shakuhi's six possible members, they have one, Sharaf Aziz Shihada, afirst lieutenant. From Qardaha, with death date just a bit late (Aug. 8) and location unclear, he could have been at home like the Shakuhis, fighting far away, or living/defending/etc. near his kin in the Nabata area. He's of rank. Just another lucky hit that day, or another captive of rank murdered? --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:12, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Locations
There are a lot of locations involved in these events. It might be worth the sorting of various town name translations, locations, reports and details, videos from, etc. Each town should have a sub-heading. I'll start it now. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:01, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Sources above and below plus this will form the initial core: Al-Mayadeen, Aug. 6: "The Syrian army said Monday it repulsed the attacks and has cleared some of the villages where the opposition entered, confirmed the sites belonging to the opposition control of the villages...'' 10 areas listed:

استربة (Esterbeh) - وبومكة (Bomkh) - وبيت الشكوحي (Beit Alchukouha) - وبلوطة، -(wblwth?) - وبارودة ( wbarwdh? ) - وعرامة ( Arama ) - ودرج نباتا  ( "a plant tray" = wdrj nbata = An-Nabata?) - ودرج تلا ( Tray Tala = wdrj tla  ) - والحمبوشي (Alhmbusha) - وجبل دورين (Mount Doreen) --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:01, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Lastto be recognized: Bomkh = AboMakkah. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:38, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

And Wikimapia entries collected first they tend to appear in a tight area, center-south-center of Jabal al-Akhrad (area). Nearest crossing to Turkey, about 10 miles due north. Areas I can find easily: Salma - Durin - Talla - others in the same area: Balluta, Ubin (Aubin), Isterba, so far. Anyway, that's the area to check. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:37, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Here is the map I just wrapped up. The dots are the towns, likely a bit mixed up, really, but partly classed by massacres reported (red) vs. rebel conquest, fighting, not sure if massacre or not, etc. (orange). (better area map later) Labels are changing as I work, in the last few days. The boundary of Jabal al-Akrad changed, for one. The big outline here is what is said the other day. Now the edge is way north, so the action is almost entirely just south of the place. Salma, just within and to the north, is something of a rebel hotbed, I hear, a possible launch point. Note the Turkish border not 15 km from the area. I can hardly imagine the heavy weapons and Saudi/multinational fighters could have just hung out long in Salma. Could they have penetrated the barrier, overrun a post, and swung down there in one 40-minute surge? Anyway, as inexact as the red and orange dots are, the pattern is probably relevant. They apparently came in from the northwest, took firm control in the middle/first hit area, where the massacres happened: Alhmbushiah, an-Nabata, Balouta, etc. From there, they pushed in all directions, encountering vacated cities with no one to massacre, and resistance. Thoughts? --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:33, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * The SyrPer guy who has been (unsurprisingly) very tight-lipped about this whole thing has just posted a map he says shows the current frontline of the "counter-offensive". As we see the area to the north-east towards Idlib is also in "rebel" hands so they didn't have to come across the border for that operation. --CE (talk) 18:41, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, good point. I'm hazy on this corner, but Jisr al-Shughour is right there, and Idlib almost as close, with its countryside so heavily overrun, could facilitate a small army's movement. Could be an open channel anywhere in there for mercenaries who crossed over anywhere further east, especially Tal-Abyad. Still a ways to go un-checked. And either way, I see Salma as the last point passed before the swing in on the massacre zone from the northwest. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:37, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Towns in detail (order: as I/we get to it, maybe to be re-arranged later) --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:05, 13 August 2013 (UTC) Map at left: Red dots = villages with reported massacres. Orage = rebel conquest, quite possibly massacres, but reports remain unclear. Yellow = reported evacuated before the conquest, no massacres. White =Salma, the apparent rebel hotbed the killers would mostly likely set out from.

Salma
Rebel hotbed? Reported attacked by Syrian land and air forces repeatedly during their counteroffensive. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:37, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * syrianews.cc reports that Salma is the "last bastion" in the region and the operation to liberate it is about to begin. The article mentions at least two of the villages listed below as recaptured yesterday (Alhmbushiah, Baluta). --CE (talk) 08:53, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Mount Durin

 * Name: وجبل دورين = Mount Doreen
 * Location: Durin? The biggest town in the area aside from Salma, just across the way. I thought maybe there's a Doreen/Durin town and a mountain on the same name but maybe not. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:02, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Video: First Brigade storming Mount Doreen battles in Latakia very very cool 7:10, August 7. Dead soldiers near the end - one cleanly executed, the other messed up somehow, perhaps partly burned across the torso. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:05, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
 * SyrPer states the place as Tal Dureen. Does Tal mean mountain? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:53, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Jabal is the usual word for mountain. Tal (Tal Dahab, Taldou? etc.) not sure. My guess is actually valley. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:44, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Tal means indeed valley - in German. This suggests that our Tal here is somewhat based on an Arabic word for mountain but more specifically describes an ancient city centre. --CE (talk) 00:52, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * It is in German? That's funny. My guess wasn't very good in this case, but I like gambling. Being right makes me feel smart, being wrong spurs rebuttals and hence discussion. :) I'll look at that source, do another quick thing, and pop back. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:47, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll just trust that. Vaguely as I read, mound, mount, heap of an ancient city center, etc. Thanks, CE. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:56, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Abu Makka

 * Reports: For Mother Syria: Abu_Mecki, 3 killed including a school teacher, kidnapped unknown.
 * Location: Abu-Makkah

Alhmbushiah

 * Name: والحمبوشي = Alhmbusha / al-Hamboshiya
 * Reports: 25 killed, "mostly children," one victim "was pregnant, the terrorists cut her stomach after killing her and grabbed the baby out and threw him away." At least nine were kidnapped, confirmed and named
 * Video: Urgent Alhmbushah village side of the extermination of Alawites in the countryside of Lattakia, Posted Aug 6, 0:15. Two executed men, civilian dress, apparently sectarian motives.
 * Al-Qaeda logo on video, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah's picture placed on one of the bodies. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:27, 14 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Aug. 18: SANA gives "al-Hamushieh" as one of the towns re-claimed by this day in fighting. SOHR cites "Confirmed reports that a Libyan Emir of the ISIS was killed by the al-Hamboshiya clashes." Location of at least one mass grave foe civilians killed in the area.
 * Location: Hambushiyah - in the center of the massacre area. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:04, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

An-Nabata

 * Name: انباتة = Anpath (Google Translate, spelled) = Anabata (app. sound pronounced by GT) = An-Nabata/Nabata - aka? ودرج نباتا = "a plant tray" = wdrj nbata (romanized)
 * Video: Moment storming estate An-Nabata Nusayris village Latakia hell Alawites (August 6)
 * Reports: "For Mother Syria" reported at least 13 killed (five children), 23 people kidnapped.
 * Location: Nabatah

Aramo

 * Name: وعرامة = Arama = Aramo
 * Location: Aramo
 * Video: Latakia throw phosphorous bombs on Esterbeh and Aramo Aug. 6 - Free Army declares control of the village Aramo in Lattakia, Aug 7

Aubin

 * Reports: "Village "#Aubin" was burned by the terrorists and we don't know anything about the civilians fate there, yet."
 * Location: Ubin on Wikimapia

Baluta

 * Name: وبلوطة، = wblwth (romanized) = 'Blouth' = Balouta/Baluta?
 * Reports: at least 18 civilians massacred, kidnapped unknown. Re-claimed on Aug. 18.
 * Location: Balluta

Baruda

 * Name: وبارودة = wbarwdh (romanized) = 'Baroudh' = Barodeh (SANA) = Baruda (AFP)
 * Reports: Location from which Alawite cleric Badreddin Ghazal was abducted, but no clear massacre report. re-claimed on Aug. 18
 * Location: Barudah

Bermseh

 * Reports: at least 13 civilians massacred, kidnapped unknown.
 * Location: Barmasah

Beit Shakuhi

 * Reports: SOHR Aug 5: "Regime forces regained control of the Beit al-Shekuhi village after violent clashes with rebels." Apparently they lost it again. SANA reports order restored only on Aug. 16. Six members of a likely-related Shakuhi/Shakohy family, all me and mostly military or police, were killed, perhaps here in Beit (house) Shakuhi. An opposition group lists them all as "regime forces," shot dead on August 6. The opposition group did not mention the families of these six men or any other people effected. --Caustic Logic (talk) 01:42, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Location:Bayt-Shakuhi
 * Same place? وبيت الشكوحي = Beit Alchukouha (al-Shakuhi - alshakouha - Alchakoua....) It pops up nowhere else, likely the same, collapsing previous entry for it. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:36, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Isterbeh

 * Name: استربة = Esterbeh/Isterbeh
 * Reports: "the civilians escaped but the terrorists occupied the village."
 * Location: Sitarbah

Khirbet Baz

 * Reports: SOHR Aug. 6: "Clashes took place in Jabal al-Akrad, reports that rebels took over the village of Khirbet Baz."
 * Location: Khirbet al-Baz

Qardaha
No reports of fighting or massacres seem to come through for this town, but things are reported there. SCDV database for "regime fatalities" (Latakia, Aug. 4-10) lists several non-civilians (11) killed August in "Qurdaha/Qardaha" and co-named (surrounding?) areas, August 5-10. This is probably supposed to be Qurdaha (on Wikimapia), a larger town well south of the cluster of villages in question, closer to Jablah than Latakia, possibly unrelated. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:31, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: At least some of these are listed because they're FROM Qardaha, and were killed fighting in places like Mengh, Aleppo and Daraa and Damascus, Jobar. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:19, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

So there was no massacre here, but under places, it belongs. Qardaha is of course Bashar Assad's ancestral homeland, where his father Hafez was born and buried. It's the main target, aside from Latakia itself, in the rebel campaign there. No sources I've seen claim any thing happening there, but there are those entries. For what it's worth, some quotes from a single Reuters report by Khaled Oweis:
 * "Dozens of the regime's forces have been killed in the last two days. The objective is to liberate our people in Latakia, and that would entail passing through Qardaha," said Salim Omar, an activist from the Sham News Network opposition monitoring organization.
 * "The rebels are not far from Qardaha, and the threat to Qardaha has moved from being conceivable to being a real one," said Sheikh Anas Ayrount, a member of the Syrian National Coalition who is from the coastal city of Banias.
 * Ahmad Abdelqader, an activist with the rebels in Latakia explained "the objective is to reach Qardaha and hurt them like they are hurting us. The Alawites have been huddling in their mountain thinking that they can destroy Syria and remain immune," he said.

Tala

 * Name:  تلا  = Tala
 * Location: Tala

August 18: ISIS Emir killed

 * SOHR Facebook:
 * Latakia province: Violent clashes broke out between rebel and regular forces in the Astarba and al-Hamboshiya areas of Reef Latakia, in an attempt by the latter to regain full control over the areas. Confirmed reports that a Libyan Emir of the ISIS was killed by the al-Hamboshiya clashes with reports of human losses from both sides, clashes were accompanied with violent bombardment by regular forces on the area. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:04, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * AFP via Fox News: Advancing army 'kills jihadist emir in Syria's Latakia':
 * State television said the army has reclaimed rebel positions in the province, including Kharata, Janzuriyeh, Baluta, Baruda and Hambushiyeh. But according to Abdel Rahman, "the army has only been able to secure the outskirts of some villages. The battles are ongoing and they are fierce".
 * "Scores of foreign (jihadist) fighters are being killed in the Latakia fighting," he told AFP. Among them was a Libyan emir or local leader of ISIS, said the Observatory. "Confirmed reports emerged of the killing of a Libyan ISIS emir while fighting in Jamusiyeh village," said the Britain-based monitoring group. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:04, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Was this guy's name never given? I wonder if he's the one on video, a Libyan Abu Suhaib Alleebi, Emir of the Mujahadeen Brigade, as Petri mentioned below? I'm guessing probably so. So the person of interest in the kidnapping of the area's children, if that is him in the mask too, has already been scrubbed from the earth with probably more mercy by far than he deserved. If the SAA doesn't do it, no one will. --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:22, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Hostages still missing
Tweets from journalist Alaa Ebrahim: (via Hands OFF Syria) -- Petri Krohn (talk) 07:41, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * SAA operation in Northern Lattakia countryside pays off today as situation back to what it was before rebel attack last week.
 * SAA & NDF managed to stop rebel advancement & push them back recapturing all areas taken by rebels in their recent attack.
 * Fate of 100s of civilians remains unknown after they were taken by rebels in their attack on northern Lattakia countryside.
 * I've been wondering what the news would say about the hostages. Hundreds acknowledged. I wonder what the rebels are saying, in the line of talks about their release, if anything. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:03, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

SANA via Syria 24 English
 * and more direct --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:04, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Units of the armed forces on Sunday restored security and stability to the villages of al-Hamushieh, al-Ballouta, al-Shiekh Nibhan, al-Khrata, al-Khanzourieh, Barodeh and Jabal al-Sha'ban in Lattakia countryside.
 * Only two of those towns I recognize. Maybe Barodeh was mentioned elsewhere. How many towns did they guys get their slimy grips on? --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:03, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

More villages via PressTV: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 10:54, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Al-Qaeda, major opposition force in Syria: Analyst – PressTV, August 17, 2013
 * The Syrian Army has also managed to recapture a number of villages from the militants in Latakia, including Tallet Habs al-Dam, Tallet al-Khudur, Karm Aramo village, Obeen and Abo Mekkeh.

August 20

 * Governor, al-Baath Party branch secretary inspect repairs in Lattakia's countryside – SANA, August 20, 2013
 * In addition to damaging water and sewage networks, electric grids and transformers, and roads, the terrorists who attacked villages in Lattakia's northern countryside committed barbaric acts of murder and massacres, stole the contents of houses, burned farms and killed livestock.
 * Locals who survived the attacks said terrorists didn't spare anyone they got their hands on, not even women, children and the elderly, with the terrorists murdering them in cold blood and throwing their bodies in wells and ditches.


 * August 20: mass grave discovered (bee below)

Mass Grave(s)
On August 20, after re-conquest was more or less complete, state broadcaster SANA reported Massive grave discovered in Lattakia countryside, just where isn't stated, with an unclear number of bodies, men, women, and children.
 * An official source announced that army units discovered a massive grave for citizens, including children and women who were killed by terrorists in the northern countryside of Lattakia.
 * The source added that the army units discovered the massive grave in the villages to which the army restored security and stability.
 * The cemetery included charred and decomposed bodies.
 * The source told SANA that among the dead citizens were children and women, some of them have been identified by the families and others were not identified as their bodies charred.

Iranian Ahlul Bayt News agency picked up on this plus a second report, specifitying on the 21st that the discovered mass grave contained 200 bodies, and that the location wasn't made clear. They also noted an earlier report of such a mass grave of dozens, in Hambushiyah (apparently the center of the massacre zone, where the Libyan emir was killed). They note "it is not yet clear whether the new report about the mass grave with slain Syrian citizens, who were killed by foreign-backed terrorists, is the same mass grave that has been discovered in the area of Hambushiyah in the countryside of Lattakia." Alternately, it would be a second mass grave, for "dozens"plus 200 bodies so far. All these details remain unclear.
 * Syria: Mass Grave with charred Syrian citizens in Latakia – Syrianews.cc, August 21, 2013

As for the state of the bodies, some were identified by family but others weren't - many were decomposed and others had been badly charred. SANA reported:
 * Coroner Ali Ali, who examined the bodies found in the mass grave, said the bodies are of men, women and children in a state of decomposition, and that their features are completely gone. Ali told the Syrian TV that the causes of death were varied, as some of the victims were stabbed with sharp objects, while others had their throat slit, and some were shot to death.

Typical "Shabiha" massacre, isn't it? Who was just talking about making "them" hurt the way "they" allegedly hurt "us"?--Caustic Logic (talk) 01:36, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Images from the mass grave, copied from SANA during a brief period it was available, offer - tastefully - only a few clues.

The last one in particular suggests they'd been under dirt some days before the 20th, at least a week, maybe two or more. These are either initial massacre victims from the 4th and maybe 5th or so, or captives killed early in the whole thing, before allowing much negotiation time. --Caustic Logic (talk) 01:36, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Videos
This video might be related: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:37, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
 * El Nusra Terör Örgütünün, Alevi vatandaşa yaptığı işkence +18 (Al-Nusra Terrorist Organization, Alevi citizens inflicted on +18) – Aug 7, 2013, moryakup
 * Abuse, check. Location, not. Below, the opposite

Useful stuff might be found on the Youtube account Salma Media Center. Al-Jazeera reports with worry that Deaths reported in raids in Syria's Latakia. Not too much of use pops up when rebels aren't blaming Assad for the massacres. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:03, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

A better search with Arabic terms yields some videos worth chewing over, with partial translation and notes:--Caustic Logic (talk) 06:20, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
 * عاجل قرية الحمبوشية جانب من إبادة العلويين في ريف اللاذقية (Urgent Alhmbushah village side of the extermination of Alawites in the countryside of Lattakia) Posted Aug 6, 0:15. Two executed men, civilian dress - one has a messed up face, left side (dragged face-down?) and what looks like a sliced throat (here, after any dragging, over that pool of blood?). The other, less clear, made to hold a picture of Hezbollah leader Nasrallah as the liberators curse the victims' foul allegiance that surely underpinned their cruel murders. IF not misattributed... --Caustic Logic (talk) 06:20, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Free Army declares control of the village Aramo in Lattakia Aug 7, 0:54: Al-Aan shares footage of a rebel tank driving around.


 * ريف اللاذقية نسف قمة النبي شعيب بالدبابة (Lattakia Countryside blow up the Prophet Shoaib بالدبابة the summit) Aug 6, 1:43. بالدبابة=baldbabh romanized.


 * 8 6 2013 اللاذقية القاء قنابل فسفورية على استربة وعرامو (Latakia throw phosphorous bombs on استربة and Aramo 6 8 2013) 1:39 Aug 6. استربة  = Issatataba? romanized astrbh = Village "#Esterbeh" close to #Salma. the civilians escaped but the terrorists occupied the village."


 * لحظة اقتحام ضيعة انباتة النصيرية بريف اللاذقية جحيم العلوية (Moment storming estate Anpath ( انباتة ) Nusayris village Latakia hell Alawites) Aug 6, 1:22 ( انباتة = Anabata = An-Nabata with the 13 dead and 23 at least kidnapped)


 * عملية اقتحام قرية استربة النصيرية في ريف اللاذقية مع الغنائم - جحيم العلوية (The storming the village استربة Nusayris in Lattakia countryside with booty - hell upper (Alawite)) Aug 6, 12:39. استربة again = Esterbeh


 * اللاذقية السيطرة على محارس الجيش بمرصد استربة 5 8 2013 (Latakia control on Mhars army Observatory استربة ) Aug. 6, 1:56


 * اللاذقية كتائب الثوار تدخل خراطة بعد تحريرها من عصابات الأسد (Latakia rebels Brigades Turning intervention after its liberation from Assad's gangs) 3:28 Aug 9. happy and well-armed rebels enjoying supremacy, some town in the mountains with nice streets and great views.


 * 2013 8 4 اللاذقية - استربة - استخدام صاروخ كونكورس لضرب دبابات النظام (Latakia - استربة - use Concourse missile to hit the tank system 482 013 ) 1:21. firing something from a high slope


 * جبهة الأصالة والتنمية || اللواء الأول معارك إقتحام جبل دورين في اللاذقية رائع جدا جدا...** (Front originality and Development | | First Brigade storming Mount Doreen battles in Latakia very very cool ... **) 7:10, August 7. Dead soldiers near the end - one cleanly executed, the other messed up somehow, perhaps partly burned across the torso.


 * August 11: مسرب إعدامات ميدانية من جوال أحد الشبيحة الذين تم قتلهم في معركة عائشة أم المؤمنين (MSRP field of mobile executions one shabeeha who were killed in the battle of Aisha, Mother of the Believers) Two men slapped around by guys in camo who could be SAA/NDF, in a forested mountain, and finally marched off. A possible colleague is seen near the end, face-down, trousers down, apparently executed. Said to be Latakia, the guy given a slot in the SCDV database with this video attached.--Caustic Logic (talk) 13:39, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

More sources...
Syrian Perspective provides some details on Facebook: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:44, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Local villagers claimed that a few dozen men in camouflage were leaving Aramo where the fighting was taking place and heading to a local village. The villagers believed the men to be Syrian Arab Army soldiers (one of the perpetrators was later identified as an army deserter fighting with Jabhat al-Nusra), so the militias were not notified from nearby villages. These men began pointing their guns at the villagers in the streets and firing with no sense of remorse. They would fire on businesses and markets. Local schools were not granted mercy, as the rebels fired upon the local grammar school that little children were attending.

Some fresh footage by ANNA News from near Salma here. The road sign shown must bee somewhere between Khirbet Baz and Isterbeh. They visit a place named Kaboo. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:09, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Ghouta CW massacre connection?
I received this tip via Twitter from Brian Souter:
 * @PetriKrohn – FYI a Libyan kidnapper named Abu Suhaib Alleebi, Emir of the Mujahadeen Brigade. Kidnapped (children) in Latakia. May be connected to the kids in Ghouta.
 * ''Here is the kidnapper in Lattakia. It is believed this is same guy at 4:47 mins.

The first video (Unless aired by Al-Jazeera for Latakia – original) follows an al Jazeera team embedded with al Nusra / al Qaeda in Latakia. It shows a large group of women and children hostages "protected" by a hooded Nusra terrorist. One woman is interviewed by the reporter. (I do not know if al-Jazeera ever aired any of this, the video seems to be an al-Qaeda production of the al-Jazeera visit.) The second video (Issuance of the Mujahideen Brigade in Latakia to Abdullah the Chechen) is a 11 minute feature on Abdullah the Chechen uploaded on July 6, 2013. One of the people interviewed seems to be the kidnapper terrorist at the Latakia scene.
 * Fascinating footage. Anyone recognizable I wonder? On the guy, it could be the same. From that bit of his face I'd think no, but his voice and energy seem pretty consistent. How does it matter, though? He's perhaps seen twice as a Jihadist in Latakia, and allegedly the kids wound up in, or attributed to, reef Dimashq (Ghouta)? If the kids things is separately illustrated, as a guy overseeing them prior to their gassing, I guess he's a suspect. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:36, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Yesterday Arabi Souri suggested that "some pictures of the children killed by 'Sarin chemical gas' in Ghouta (#Damascus Countryside) are for children kidnapped from #Latakia countryside." claiming that "their families recognized them." I do not know what the source is, but seems to reflect what is said in this Arabic language post on Facebook. I can only understands one comment: Brian Souter this explains why as Voltaire net observes the chldren were without parents.
 * And this is what would matter. It surely makes enough sense to pursue. Were they taken to Ghouta? No, way too far. If this is true, it must be those in locations that can't be placed, but are in Idlib or Turkey or something, with the names of Ghouta towns brought up there and stapled on. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:36, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

The reference is to this article on Voltaire Network:
 * Sarin Gas : a new propaganda campaign against Syria – 23 August 2013
 * On these videos, shocking at first, one quickly detects a setup: the wounded children appear haggard or drugged, do not have parents who accompany them. Boys are often naked, while the girls are all dressed. We see no hospital structure, not even a clandestine one, except screens and pockets of serum.

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 02:15, 26 August 2013 (UTC)