Talk:Karm al-Zaytoun Massacre

Start Notes
No promises on this page, but I have enough specifics I'm stumbling on that it needs a space. And I may go off on this, fascinating and hideous stuff, according to reports. The surface-level reports say is happened on March 11 in Karm al-Zaytoun, but what I see in the death records is a horrific two-day span, each centered on a different area but with several deaths in others too. The CDV database shows 129 fatalities of people from Homs province between March 11 (Sunday, 72 dead) and March 12 (Monday, 57 dead), mostly in districts of the city itself. Victims listed as from Alawite-majority districts appear in these two days (a real rarity), as well as other more commonly violent areas where there were only a few (and shrinking) Alawites lived. Other stuff will emerge --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:36, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Two Massacres
I've chosen to focus on two massacres on consecutive days under this more known reference to just one. The one publicized at the time was in the large district of Karm al-Zaytoun on March 11 - death toll not clear at the moment but said to include 45 women and children. CDV records help fill in the details of what was recorded/alleged (grain of salt). They have their way of differentiating these two events from each other - by day and name.

March 11: Those listed as included in the day's massacre, as opposed to just killed (mostly by field execution) in another part of town, have the note "in the massacre of the neighborhood," or usually a shortened part of that, or sometimes nothing (but implicitly included). It's not named, this massacre, and apparently only 28 people altogether are so noted as belonging. 13 adult males (AM), 6 adult females (AF), 7 male children (CM), 2 girls (CF). Many but not all KaZ entries are so noted, and none from the other areas. 53 KaZ martyrs that were recorded here: 35 AM, 7 AF, 8 CM, 3 CF. (one man field executed in Karm al-Zeitoun: Ashera (Ashira on the map) but not noted as part of the massacre) You'll note the discrepancy between 45 women and children and the 15-18 women and children listed. People they didn't feel like documenting carefully might explain that, but there are plenty of other possible explanations. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:53, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

March 12: Things were less clear for area, happening in a north-south strip of smaller districts just to the west of there (see map below). But this time the CDV had a name handy. Included victims have this note or some variation of it:
 * Adawiya massacre: The regime forces, army and shabiha entered the neighborhoods of Adawiya, Rifa'e and Karm Al-Zaitoun, stormed the homes and conducted summarily executions for dozens of these neighborhoods' residents 

Searching for massacre name suggests these 23 people are the victims, but it seems to be bigger than that. Rifae is clearly the winner for death tolls that day - 40 martyrs - being the natural name for the event. They say it includes Adawiya, Rifae, and Karm al-Zaytoun - but the one KaZ entry is not listed as part of it, the Adawiyeh entries - just two adult men - also are not labeled part of the Adawia massacre, and the five Karm al-Louz entries including children are so noted. So we can include at least the three killed in areas said to be included, for at least 26 people listed as "in the massacre," and add an area they didn't list in the notes - it's in the Alawite part of Homs in an info-graphic by the Guardian, cited on the map here (roughly the purple circle). Few martyrs from there have died ever, and been noted by the CDV that way. all martyrs from Homs, "Karm al-L" to allow different spellings. Five on March 12, and one girl the previous September, who happened to be on the roof and was shot. None since. This was apparently a special day. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:53, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Other sources accompanying videos are less clear about a distinction between one day's killings and the next: the massacre is said to be in KaZ and in Adamiya from the 11th on. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:35, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

The early sources said 45 women and children, and apparently 63 men, for 108 civilians total killed "on Sunday." By whatever means and apparently combining both days, a much larger death toll was reported later. In October, the Syrian Revolution Facebook page announced
 * Documenting the massacre clan neighborhood in Homs 224 martyrs in two days without having to hear their world !
 * Clan neighborhood = حي عشيرة = hy 'eshyrh (Ashira/Asheera?)
 * After two months and odd ongoing work by one of the activists Syrian network for human rights in the city of Homs, we were able through meticulous work, continuous and field visits to a large number of families and communicate with dozens of families were able to document the 224 names with great difficulty and effort exceptionally including 44 children and 48 women.

That's 92 women and children, 132 men. 224 names follow. --Caustic Logic (talk) 00:44, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * First 71 entries undated, apparently March 11, since the remaining 151 seem to all be dated March 12.



Note from the map a pattern one could imagine for this alleged "Shabiha" killing spree. The killers invested in KaZ until chased west, and also turned their attention south to Rifa'e. It's almost as if they were trying to battle their way to the arms depot just south of there. That doesn't really seem like a "Shabiha" thing to do. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:36, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Timing
First of all, March 15 would mark one year since the first protests, a year in which the government still hadn't been overthrown or even isolated enough. These killings blamed on pro-government forces happened at about the perfect time to become known and perhaps acted on just in time for an anniversary where the lines between good and evil were seen as clarified against the "Assad regime." But even before that anniversary was a more concrete goal. Syrian Day Press News, March 14 (Arabic, roughly translated):
 * Syrian Information Minister Adnan Mahmoud accused terrorist groups committing a massacre in Karm al-Zaytoun, Homs, to pressure to call international positions, before a meeting of the Security Council decision Monday .


 * ''The Syrian minister said in a statement to the agency "Agence France Presse": "The terrorist groups committed the most terrible massacres against the citizens in the neighborhood of the grove in Homs in order to exploit the Syrian bloodshed to pressure to call international positions against Syria ."

CNN's report showed how this worked out - well. Title, video subtitle, some lines put together: "Syrian opposition calls for international military intervention - Activists say 108 people were killed on Sunday - Monday's diplomatic efforts came in the wake of ... at least 45 women and children were stabbed and burned to death ... late Sunday, activists said. ... The U.N. Security Council took up the issue of Syria again on Monday, with the United States and Britain pushing for quick action..."

Baroudi
There is a name Baroudi that appears for March 11 victims in Karm al-Zaytoun: Ahmad Baroudi AM Mohamad Kheir Baroudi AM Bashar Baroudi CM Asmaa Baroudi CF. It's a name I don't think I've seen much. It could mean "from Barouda," which is one of the towns hardest hit in the 2013 Latakia Massacres (see here for Barouda details). That would of course strongly suggest these were Alawite citizens of Karm al-Zaytoun. --Caustic Logic (talk) 00:26, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Four more, or maybe five, for a total of up to nine members so far: they seem to goof up this name a bit. All field executed, most from Karm al-Zaytoun and killed "in the massacre." Adel Barudi AM "Father of martyr Ahmad Barudi, Husband of martyr Mayada Barudi" - Abdulrahman Barudy CM - likely included: Khalid Badui CM age 5 - possibly included: Mahmoud Baru AM, from Baba Amr - definitely included: Mayyada Bahloun in the massacre that took place int he neighborhood, she is the mother of martyr Ahmad Al-Baroudi" and given elsewhere as Mayada Barudi. The maiden name Bahloun is interesting. No other entries for that name appear, but two are similar: Bahloul/Bahlol pops up across north Syria, partly for rebel; fighters. And a Bahlawan, more likely. two men killed around Damascus. More likely, there's a Bahlawan name, with two adult males killed around Damascus later in 2012. In fact, that's correct; Ahmad, an adult, has for notes: "In the massacre of the neighborhood, he is the son of Martyr Mayyada Bahlawan and Martyr Aadel Al-Baroudi." --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:31, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

The SNHR list of 224 starts with the Baroudis, given as from Adawiya rather than KaZ. Ten entries:
 * 1. Mayada Bhlwan - mother of Ahmed Baroudi
 * 2. Mohamed Khair Baroudi
 * 3. Adel Baroudi - father of Ahmad Al - Baroudi
 * 4. Ahmad Baroudi
 * 5. Kausar Bahadir - mother of Adel and Mohamed Khair (CDV lists her: Kawthar Bahader, married with children, no details)
 * 6. Bashar al- Baroudi - 12 years
 * 7. Hanan Saka - mother Baroudi (doesn't say of whom) (CDV lists her: Hanan Al-Saqqa, married with children, no details)
 * 8. Abdul Rahman Al Baroudi - 6 years
 * 9. Asmaa Baroudi - 5 years
 * 10. Khaled Al Baroudi - 6 years

Jobar Killings
Karm al-Zaytoun is not the only place people were massacred that day. For one, Jobar (southwest corner of the city, by Wa'er) saw six adult male victims: Abu Rifaat Al-Zoubi - Son of Abu Rifaat Al-Zoubi - Son of Khaled Wazeer - Osama El-Rifai - Ziad al-Rifaee - Omar Rifa'e. The three apparent brothers share a name with a district that would suffer killings the following day.
 * No one named Rifaee appears on the SNHR list of 224.

Hasans
It's not clear if these are all separate or interrelated families. All are from Karm al-Zaytoun.
 * Hasan, Naser al-Hasan AM
 * Lufti al-Hasan: Rizqallah Lutfi al-Hasan AM - Mohammad Lutfi al-Hasan AM - Ali Lutfi al-Hasan AM - Lutfi ALi al-Hasan CM
 * Hasan Agha: Jamal Hasan Agha AM - Lurans Hasan Agha CM - Taha Hasan Agha CM - Zaina Hasan Agha CF

Abed
In the Rifaie neighborhood, one hard-hit family is Abed/al-Abed/Abd:
 * Mazen Mohammad al-Abd AM
 * Ibn Mesar Alabed AM - Son of Myasar Abed 12 plus 11 others, all adult males. Lot of sons here. And another - Ibn means son. But whoever Mesar/Myasar is, he's not listed as dying this day. Unless he's listed as Mazen.
 * Farhan al-Abd AM - Wife of Farhan al-Abd AF (not named) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAVJEZ6eOdY - Son of Farhan Al-Abed - Son of martyr Farhan Abed - Ibn Farhan Alabed AM. I think this says a man, his wife, and three sons were all killed.

This name does not seem to appear on the later SNHR list of 224 victims. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:49, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Zammo
Arabic: زمو - transliterated Zammo and Zimmo. This family is listed by the VDC as field executed and from the Karm Al-Louz district, reportedly Alawite-majority.
 * Abdulnaser Zammo, AM, karm al-Lawz, Field Execution, Aadawiyeh massacre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi-4C_tS5jc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6tTUQjcCLE
 * Ammar Abdulnaser Zammo CM, karm al-Lawz, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcyBvYwgeLs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgOEmWaysrk
 * Roea Abed Nasser Zimmo CF, age 3, Karm Al-Louz, photo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsSYQSJAhWc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTi9hK_g_yY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuhE48_Kvnc
 * Someone different handled the toddler's file, 6,000 entries later, and perhaps the next one, filed at the time of the others). --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:35, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

And the mother wife might just be disappeared without even an entry. As noted, only 4 adult females, three named as unnamed wives of male victims, all four from Rifae.
 * Khaled Abdel Nasser Zimmo CM, Karm Al-Louz, Adawiya massacre, no photos or video.
 * The other Karm al-Louz local listed: Rada Majid Al-shaar Adult Male

This name Zammo does not seem to appear on the later SNHR list of 224 victims. unless Abu Nazih Shami is Abdul Naser Zammo (Shami - zammo = شامي - زمو - not likely) Nor does Rada or al-Shaar appear. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:49, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Darwish
People of this name managed to die on both days, in different areas. On the 11th, a single child, Mohamad Hussein Darweesh happened to die from random "shelling" in Rastan, north of Homs city. Aged 16, it says, Mother's Name: Ghazwa, he wasn't even a massacre victim. A school student by profession, Mohammed "was injured last Friday when a shell landed on a demonstration, he was transported to a hospital where he was kidnapped by security forces. His body was delivered to his family today." The next day in Rifaie it was Ahmad Khalaf ALdarwish (AM) and Mohammad Khalaf al-Darwish. No further details for either except "field execution." There is an Alawite family Darwish targeted in the 2013 Latakia Massacres. But like Baroudi, it pops up elsewhere too. --Caustic Logic (talk) 00:07, 6 November 2013 (UTC)


 * A video specifies and shows that "12 year old child martyr Mohammad Darweesh tourtured to death by Assad thugs." Looks closer to 16. Left arm split open horrible from should almost to elbow, since sewn up. His face is bizarrely flattened, right eye puffed up, none totally flat. Looks very strange to me. What looks like an old healed scar on his left thigh, horrible at one time, is pointed to. This kid had a rough life, it looks like. --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:06, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

The SNHR list contains several Darwishes, nine or ten total. Nine are listed together, all from Rfiae and field executed on - undated actually, so I'd presume the 11th.:
 * 53. Hamida (حميدة ) Darwish - the sister of Ahmed Darwish
 * 54. W'ed (وعد ) Darwish - 20 years - eight month pregnant
 * 55. Massa Yasser Darwish - two years - the daughter of W'ed
 * 56. Yasmin Slima (سليمة)
 * 57. Bahaa Darwish - 3 years old Yasmin's baby
 * 58. Maria dervish (Darwish) - one year - the daughter Yasmine
 * 60. Mohammed Khalaf Al Darwish
 * 61 . Ahmad Khalaf Al Darwish
 * 62. Maher Obeid Darwish
 * 1) 46. Yisra Khalef Darwish al-Omar - seems related to the last ones above, two of which are the only ones CDV listed. Total = 10, 11 if you count Yasmin's unborn baby.

Shadid
While some originally listed families vanished by the time of the SNHR 224 victims list, other names were added, like Shadid. Entry 76 is odd: Google translated, it says Ayatollah Abdul severe - Rifai - 12-3-2012 - field execution. Ayattolah? Seems rather to be آية عبد الله or Aya Abdallah, a female name that brings up a famous singer in an image search. Severe = شديد = shdyd = Shadid, a name that VDC didn't list. This adds several victims besides lady Aya: 12 names listed together, at least six children, include it: All from Rifai, field executed. #78 Hanna Mhou ( محو ), age 60, is wife of Mohammed Shadid, who may not appear. unless her husband is only 9. Entries 75, 77, and 84 are also intermixed female names, most likely more wives. Add 4, for 16 members, just like Abdul Rahman Shadid is said to have died with (including himself? or did I miss one?)--Caustic Logic (talk) 13:01, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 72. Emad Shadid (male name)
 * 73. Abdul Rahman Shadid - with 16 members of his family
 * 74. Abdullah Mohammed Shadid
 * 76. Aya Abdullah Abdul Shadid
 * 79. Hana Imad Shadid - 18 years
 * 80. Nader Imad Shadid - 10 years (male)
 * 81. Mohammed Imad Shadid - 8 years
 * 82. Iyad Imad Shadid - two years (male)
 * 83. Jihad Mohammed Shadid -
 * 85. Mohammed Jihad Shadid - 9 years
 * 86. Esra Jihad Shadid - 5 years - (girl name)
 * 87. Rama Jihad Shadid - two years (unisex name)

Family from Gallstone
Another family name included in the later list but not the CDV database is ... not named actually. But the members are described as centering around entry 213, near the end, "a man from al-Gallstone," as Google render it. حصوة = hswh = al-Haswiyeh, meaning Busatin al-Haswiyeh (orchard of gravel), in the northwest of Homs, where Jabhat al-Nusra types carried out the Haswiyeh Massacre almost a year later. As explained here the name also translates "Tophaceous." of/having/suffering from monosdium urate crytals, as in a type of gout. Gravel/crystals/gallstone, makes as much sense as ever. He was away from home for some reason when field executed in Rifae with the others on March 12, and not alone. I wonder why the name isn't provided? --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:56, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 214. The man's wife from Haswiyeh
 * 215. The second wife of the martyr of Haswiyeh
 * 216. Al Haswiyeh - son

Massacre Scene 1
Female and child victims later seen in the main morgue, seen here in situ, perhaps where killed, or arranged as if just sitting around. Night time. (copied from below)
 * One that appears high in a Google search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaJPzaEBjs4
 * ...by Mohamed Alahmed is interesting. Same MO as in Baniyas / al Bayda; old women and children killed in their home. Shot through the head. Filmed at night, fully dressed
 * How does Mohamed Alahmed get these videos? Does he film them himself? He seems to be close to lot of gory violence. Even sits in a meeting with the UN. I do not think he is only at the receiving end of this violence. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 12:04, 6 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Finally just now wtached these first videos. Interesting you can ID that Mohammed guy. ... watched just enough to see the exact similarity, and match it probably to another very interesting find. Slumped girl, purple coat, might ring a faint bell - A video later used for the Houla massacre, stills only, you'll remember them... was actually Homs, March 11. Check this out - no close-ups, nothing new: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHNNj_P8mtY This is part 4 of a series "Flash Homs massacre in fact lions door (Bab Sbaa) for children and women and corpses filled the hospital field" here's part 5. Bab Sbaa is hardly mentioned in the other sources.
 * The bodies in the morgue are the same victims as in the Mohamed Alahmed nighttime video. The girl in the red coat with a shot through the eye is sitting on the wooden sofa on the left, with three older women. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:00, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Massacre Scene 2
A daylight scene of where people apparently had been killed - CDV's "generic video" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgm5i58EtEc This is a crime scene video: Blood-coated floor in a slaughter room - rebel says they were shot - burned room with rubble where the killers blasted in - another room with bloody carpet, shell casings, blood and brains on the wall and couch, lots of close-ups on the drying and tacky gore. Daylight. dated 3/12, uploaded 3/13 here. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:27, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Main Morgue, 24 Bodies
One main morgue with 24 bodies at least, most mauled hideously, dominates the imagery. It's in Karm al-Zaytoun or Bab Sbaa or maybe Adawiya, depending. Searching ""2012 3 11" حمص مجزرة سوريا " brings up mainly these, and swapping in 12 for 11 has about the same result. It comprises two rooms, one with light baseboards, holding women and children, one with black molding, holding mostly men. The longer videos clarify the two rooms are adjoining ones in the same place. This photo from an unusual view clarifies this was someone's home and was apparently just now converted to a "field hospital" with the original furniture just pushed aside. Both rooms are shown mixed in photo galleries like this one: [Activists: Shabiha slaughtered 47 women and children in Homs.

The videos are mostly posted on and given as March 12, there are at least some dated and some online by March 11, Youtube (California) time (Syria-10 hours). This suggests there came in early on the 12th, being killed late on the 11th. One rebel source says, in Arabic (Gtrans) "...shabeeha burned the bodies of the martyrs, which were transferred to the Bab Sbaa field hospital."--Caustic Logic (talk) 11:49, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

8 different videos (might move)
 * 7:31 - most widely re-posted, at least these 3 - 1 2 3 (Sy.Homs-Karam zaiton and adawia neighborhoods massacre 12-3-2012)


 * 0:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Wtr33HKKc The grove in Homs massacre c 2 / 12-3-2012
 * 1:36 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFvTG3ri94I more on the kids
 * 1:42 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHNNj_P8mtY no panning
 * 2:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfT_3yb6pFc
 * 5:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcyZqFwdCE
 * 8:21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uGRvK4AhkM (Flash Homs massacre in fact lions door for children and women and corpses filled the field hospital 11 3 2012)
 * 14:38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEzs4kc1uro (Flash Homs massacre in fact lions door for children and women and corpses filled the field hospital 11 3 2012) (March 11)

Body tally: 24 Room 1 back row, right to left: man, charred face and body - woman with missing half of chin (photo) - woman in black, bruised neck - woman in plaid blanket - woman, white shawl, blood on side - old woman in black = six bodies front row: girl in magenta coat with the tentacle of brain matter out the right eye - boy in plaid shirt, unclear cause of death - girl in pink coat, chunks torn from face and neck (1:54 in 8:21 video) - boy in striped sweater, horrible neck and back of head mangling - close-up photo for those capable - boy in purple sweater, head half-gone from powerful gunshot = five. Room total = 11

Room 2, back row: young man, charred - blasted-head woman (pink blanket, see 8:21 video) - blue and gold blanket - white coverings, two executed women seen only in the 8:21 video) - covered in red sweater, apparent child - young man, intact. Front row: mustache man, black sport pants, green sheet - striped shirt, arms up - older man, face-down, charred legs - really charred and torn up man, ribs showing, bony hand - striped blanket, burnt feet, un-burned face, everything between charred to the bone, as bunt as I've ever seen a human body that remained that still frame, hole in right jaw, right arm missing - man, bloodied face, slight burning, worse on right side of his belly.  total = 13

An older woman I don't trust appears to explain the room full of dead men she reminds me much of Houla's Hanna Harmut Sayed, and that refugee lady - same comedic presence - I'll have to look closer to see if she is the same. She can be seen in one video (can't remember which) and in this photo and this one. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:44, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Another morgue
Young men, possible rebels in part, but more likely attempted recruits. Seen from 6:36 forward in the 7:31 video.

12 Wrapped Bodies
March 12, outdoors, daylight
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAVJEZ6eOdY
 * Some CDV entries this is linked from: Maria Yasmeen Salemeh, at least some sons of Myasar Abed. At least 12 bodies laid out, wrapped, at least four small children. One baby is held up, head open at the top open, smoke-stained face perhaps?--Caustic Logic (talk) 13:27, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Jobar?
Yes, there's a Jobar, and a Ghouta, in Homs just like in Damascus.
 * Homs Jobar was finally a very dangerous one infusion massacres is very important for the media to expose the system Asadi posted March 11 ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIf0OotsKe4 another posting) Many executed men and boys on the ground, dragged here, rigor mortis, head shots, possible gouged-out eyes in a few cases, a groin wound - # visible, at least 12.

CDV
General entry for at least some victims of this violence: "Adawiya massacre: The regime forces, army and shabiha entered the neighborhoods of Adawiya, Rifa'e and Karm Al-Zaitoun, stormed the homes and conducted summarily executions for dozens of these neighborhoods' residents."

Overall daily death tolls for people from Homs province, including massacre victims and all other recorded "martyrs" (everyone documented who isn't "regime"), March 9-14:
 * March 9 = 30 martyrs (Friday)
 * March 10 = 10 martyrs (the calm before the storm, as if someone were pausing to prepare for something big in the coming days) --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:36, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * March 11 = 72 martyrs Mainly from Karm al-Zeitoun (different spellings used)
 * March 12 = 52 martyrs Mostly from Rifaie neighborhood, also Karm al-Louz (Zammo family), which I hear is Alawite majority. Absolutely no follow-up deaths from Karm al-Zeitoun - whoever had access the previous day lost it quickly and moved on. Typical army/Shabiha style, right?
 * March 13 = 16 martyrs About nine in the city itself, mainly Baba Amr, the rebel fall-back point.
 * March 14 = 10 Order is re-imposed? The killers run out of steam?

SNHR
I don't usually check with the Syrian Network for Human Rights (SNHR) (once the SOHR) but stumbled across an Arabic language dispatch from them, I think (translated: "We in the network the Syrian Human Rights emphasize ..."), but posted on the Syrian Revolution Facebook page in October. This claims a two-month study to back up a revision of the death toll to at least 224. They include both March 11 and 12 to get this tally, but also leave off some of the earlier-reported victims.

Videos
I haven't watched these yet. Two videos for some CDV entries for "Adawiya massacre":
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAVJEZ6eOdY
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmfPeGdirC4
 * Some entries these are linked from: Maria Yasmeen Salemeh, at least some sons of Myasar Abed. At least 12 bodies laid out, wrapped, at least four small children. One baby is held up, head open at the top open, smoke-stained face perhaps?--Caustic Logic (talk) 13:27, 6 November 2013 (UTC)


 * One that appears high in a Google search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaJPzaEBjs4
 * The first two are the same, bodies wrapped for burial, dead baby posed for camera.
 * The third one by Mohamed Alahmed is interesting. Same MO as in Baniyas / al Bayda; old women and children killed in their home. Shot through the head. Filmed at night, fully dressed
 * How does Mohamed Alahmed get these videos? Does he film them himself? He seems to be close to lot of gory violence. Even sits in a meeting with the UN. I do not think he is only at the receiving end of this violence. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 12:04, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Finally just now wtached these first videos. Interesting you can ID that Mohammed guy. Here's the CDV's actual generic video from F.N.N.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgm5i58EtEc (second link below it is again a VDC re-post - one of these 2+ years old had two views as I watched it) This is a crime scene video: Blood-coated floor in a slaughter room - rebel says they were shot - burned room with rubble where the killers blasted in - another room with bloody carpet, shell casings, blood and brains on the wall and couch, lots of close-ups on the drying and tacky gore. Daylight. dated 3/12, uploaded 3/13 here. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:27, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

That third video with Mohammed, watched just enough to see the exact similarity, and match it probably to another very interesting find. Slumped girl, purple coat, might ring a faint bell - A video later used for the Houla massacre, stills only, you'll remember them... was actually Homs, March 11. Check this out - no close-ups, nothing new: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHNNj_P8mtY This is part 4 of a series "Flash Homs massacre in fact lions door (Bab Sbaa) for children and women and corpses filled the hospital field" here's part 5. Bab Sbaa is hardly mentioned in the other sources. I'm finding more, this is the horrible shit. Charred and mangled remains, heads just blown up, many more women at least than the VDC records acknowledge. Why? Are the maybe-Houla torn-out throat kids from here too? --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:27, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Another video of that scene, this one with roving camera and probably more horrible detail. Title translated: Flash terrible massacre that took place in the neighborhood of the grove 2012 3 11. Grove = كرم (krm) الزيتون (alzytwn) = Karm al-Zaytoun, not Bab Sbaa.
 * And another - "...in the neighborhood of the grove and Adaweya."


 * The bodies in the morgue are the same victims as in the Mohamed Alahmed nighttime video. The girl in the red coat with a shot through the eye is sitting on the wooden sofa on the left, with three older women. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:00, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

New analysis section above. Here I will catalog the other videos not yet discussed.


 * March 11: Youngest Martyr in the Syrian Revolution - Homs, Karm Alzaytoun masacare 11-3-2012 (a dead newborn)


 * March 12: Flash Homs remains of a child in the neighborhood Adaweya 12 3 2012 (small head, disrupted, an arms, mutilated, trying to shield it, perhaps, and almost everything else missing, totally charred, floppy, smearing blood across the pavement).


 * Syria, Homs Another massacre committed by Assad's. 3 brothers were martyred. ( "Bab Dreb Neighborhood ... 3 brothers : Mohammad, Ahmad and Jamil Alshami. They homes where destroyed by the random shelling of T72 tanks artillery shells.")


 * March 14 Flash Homs door lions Adaweya one of the women killed with a knife during the massacre was withdrawn after dawn (old woman, covered with blankets)

SNHR Lists
From the Facebook post, Google translated: Accessories and attachments : First: The videos that document the name and video of the victims and the massacre :
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jnz1YvBMm04
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPMLtO_VWQI
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEzs4kc1uro
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW7o6HYO8n4
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R5tTBhiF5M (6:20 - "Cham Homs massacre in fact lions door for children and women and corpses filled the hospital field, part 10")
 * I picked this one to start - the women and children morgue, all piled together in one side of the room. Sign at 1:04 specifies in English it's early March 12, in Bab Sbaa. A new body's been brought in, wrapped in green like a Christmas present. From her absence so far, must be the girl with the brains. Another is brought in, and a sheet laid for the next row. The other room's already been arranged as we've seen. An angry narrator gestures to the charred men. I was hoping to hear names, but only Bashar Assad was recognizable, plus maybe place names like Aleppo and Hasaka.--Caustic Logic (talk) 13:47, 8 November 2013 (UTC)


 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJeWQPiA0VQ
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T71mwvgApLg
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRtBPKOdrcs
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUNKPOh55GU
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGz87YglpEI
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_7hpxev5Hs
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp5k9QniITU
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acAStRnNzns
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGxVAHXGdMc
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjPd60OAvQg
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW0TSx12-lY (0:21 "Homs grove cremation after-effects of the massacre 12-3-2012")
 * Men in the morgue, better detail than some views, especially the super-charred guy. Bab Sbaa audibly named.

Video leaked of Mobile shabeeha :
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg7XOUfuR5c

A series of still images from what has been documented of martyrs : http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.286205754814871.51365.122659141169534&type=1

Second : Videos documenting what has happened revive the clan and Adaweya Rifai and the grove of bombing by the intrusion and commit massacre :
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZNioUwfmJk
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlNg_5KQ-ms
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsrSod_x8gw
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqV-zEtEF1o
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOYoRgJmjbY

The testimony of a survivor : Of one of the girls witnesses to the massacre :
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYKRh_Si_6I
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INsuQ4Uk38Q