Category talk:Chemical Weapons

U.S. Says Red Line Crossed, Deadly Aid Coming
June 13: Maybe the rebels used CW, maybe in most attacks, even any involving sarin and all those that killed civilians, who knows. But Washington is finally certain the gov. also used some unspecified chemicals, probably sarin, in small amounts, etc. and is planning to send aid to the rebels (currently in a total brutality and desparation meltdown) and/or planning a no-fly zone. Good news: the same air defenses that made a "no-fly zone" unlikely still exist. Probably another tough stance to create more pressure and doom again any thoughts of turning back or acknowledging Syrian sovereignty or victory over the jihadists. --Caustic Logic (talk) 21:58, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Syria Has Used Chemical Arms on Rebels, U.S. and Allies Find
 * US close to approving lethal aid to Syrian rebels this week; no-fly zone unclear


 * There must be some secret order by some secret court that gives him permission to lie like shit. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 05:53, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

More: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:22, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
 * US letter: Syria regime used sarin twice in Aleppo
 * "We've taken two months to reach this, carefully creating the impression of a very careful and deliberative process," Rice should have said. Seriously, why does it taking longer to identify molecules make your political decision more realistic? Ban still sucks. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:06, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

This is the bizarre and Orwellian turn - clearly Aleppo what they (the West) wanted to NOT look at back in March. As Damascus demanded they investigate Aleppo, they insisted on including other attacks and broadening the scope into some regime-changey thing and keeping it all tied together, apparently to avoid looking at the Khan al-Assal attack in Aleppo. Now that they have enough "confidence" (rebels on the verge of defeat) they seize Damascus' high ground and swear that, whatever contradictory evidence (and it's heavy), their intel maneuvers prove both Jabhat al-Nusra attacks in Aleppo are in fact the main proof the red line was crossed and it's time to give al Qaeda an air force or whatever. Put another way, Syria boldly demanded an investigation of their own sarin attack, but the French and Brits and Yanks prevented early proof! How ironic! --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:42, 16 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Absolutely despicable. --CE (talk) 13:46, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Now the chemical weapons are deployed fro air-bases! -- Petri Krohn (talk) 10:03, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Kerry reportedly argued for air strikes against regime air bases used to employ chemical weapons against Syrian rebels at a discussion last week in the White House Situation Room, wrote Bloomberg columnist Jeffrey Goldberg, citing unnamed sources.

Source: Dempsey, Kerry clash over Syria – AFP, June 20, 2013

PressTV:
 * Militants in Syria fabricated chemical weapons evidence: Report – July 22, 2013
 * Rolf Ekeus, a Swedish scientist who headed up U.N. weapons inspections in Iraq during the 1990s, said the United States gave the militants the pretext to fabricate evidence by saying that Washington’s “red line” is the use of chemical weapons, The Washington Post reported.


 * “If you are the opposition and you hear” that the White House has drawn a red line on the use of nerve agents, then “you have an interest in giving the impression that some chemical weapons have been used,” Ekeus said.


 * UN rejects US claim on Syria chemical weapons
 * "We are not able to say who has used chemical agents or chemical weapons,” said Paulo Pinheiro, chairman of the United Nations human rights investigation committee on Syria, on Friday.

Opinion

 * Syria Is Becoming Obama’s Iraq – Shamus Cooke, June 19, 2013
 * In perfect Bush-like fashion, President Obama has invented a bogus pretense for military intervention in yet another Middle East country. The president’s claim that the Syrian government has used chemical weapons — and thus crossed Obama’s imaginary “red line” — will likely fool very few Americans, who already distrust their president after the massive NSA spying scandal.
 * Obama has officially started down a path that inevitably leads to full-scale war. At this point the Obama administration thinks it has already invested too much military, financial, and diplomatic capital into the Syrian conflict to turn back, and each step forward brings the U.S. closer to a direct military intervention.

Sad, but it looks like the responsibility of preventing World War III has fallen upon us. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 09:26, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I had to work, and maybe now it's too late. :( It would be up to us, plus others like us, and others more powerful taking more ethical actions. Or unavoidable circumstance, or nothing. I hope it's not nothing. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:12, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

FSA's Abd Al-Baset Tawila sets ultimatum to US
I just found this video and first didn't realize the timing ... it's from three days before the White House announcement. My short description:
 * The "commander of FSA northern front" details on Al Jazeera how "Uncle Sam" prevents them from getting anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons, and has done so since the beginning. If they had delivered, the regime had only survived a couple of months. US goal: destruction of Syria as they know they are unable to find fractions to run the country which aren't anti-Israel. He says they shouldn't make such a fuss about Al-Nusra, they aren't that bad and could be integrated in the new Syria. Which, as far as he is concerned must follow Islamic law and the army should be Islamic as well. Says the FSA commander.


 * He goes on to set an ultimatum to the US to finally deliver advanced weapons. If that doesn't happen in the next month, he says on June 10, he threatens to spill the beans "about the use of chemical weapons".

--CE (talk) 19:43, 30 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The guy is "legit", a colonel and the commander of the northern front (Aleppo and Idlib) of the "official" FSA Military Council of McCain's buddy Salim Idris. Although his photo shown there looks much different to the guy in the ultimatum video, but that could have been for "stealth" reasons as two other commanders have no photo at all. --CE (talk) 20:05, 30 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks, CE, and good catch. I saw the ultimatum around, you have one month. I wondered "or else what?" He says or "we will reveal all the evidence we have." In parentheses, (about the use of chemical weapons). Meaning he'd admit it was their brothers Jabhat al-Nusra? Clearly no. Meaning the "regime" has been gassing people daily? Already crowing plenty about that, why wait to "release" it all? So ... Israel was doing it? Western powers supplied "the regime" to help Israel and the Shi'ites destroy Syria? What made up crap were they threatening to "release" right before Obama's announcement? As for the image, MEMERI specifies Tawilla, but the picture with Al-Jazeera's report (0:56) looks too different to me. I think someone got mixed up, probably al-Jazeera. Or I'm wrong and lighting/aspect ratio/etc. explains it. Who cares? --Caustic Logic (talk) 01:03, 1 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I suspect the little canisters found at the sights and at the chest of that creepy warrior contains weapons grade "tear-gas" that was delivered by Turkey and those guys have evidence for the chain of supply and that the US was "vetting" the recipients by looking the other way. Pic, I touched upon already. I have a feeling that Prince Fatso might have half-way successfully blackmailed the US into (at least promising to) up the game. --CE (talk) 01:54, 1 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I elaborated over at JREF. :oP --CE (talk) 03:29, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Deadly Aid Sinks?
Have we all seen this? I find it fascinating. MEDIA BLACKOUT: divine-intervention-or-russian-torpedo? One of the first shipments of weapons, reportedly, a massive load of whatever, the barge breaks in half, reportedly sinks, all conveniently filmed. Many are repeating this, but no "reputable" mainstream media. I'm not sure who it originates with. Some suspect a Russian attack. Some (me) at least half-suspect this is some kind of hoax, another random ship, mis-attributed for fun. But I'll leave checking into that for later. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:08, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

34 Suspected Attacks
Syrian expat Rebel doctors - Union of Syrian Medical Relief Organizations - trying their best and making it a mission managed to uncover just over twice as many alleged CW attacks as we have, while likely ignoring a few the rebels alone were blamed for. By "civilians" - 97% of the victims - do they mean rebel fighters, or actual civilians, I wonder? If the latter, the number of dead must be much, much higher than reported to allow for the many apparent fighters shown in case after case. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:10, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * AFP via Daily Star, June 1: Doctors record ‘dozens of chemical attacks’ in Syria
 * ''Referring to a list of 34 suspected attacks, compiled by the group Syrian Human Rights Watch in Cairo, (Tawfik) Chamaa (a founding member of the Union of Syrian Medical Relief Organizations) said the attacks appeared mainly to be carried out by fighter jets, helicopters and long- and mid-range missiles. “And it’s the regime that is in possession of these weapons,” said Chamaa, a Swiss doctor of Syrian origin. “Since 2013, we have seen a huge increase in these attacks, and in recent days attacks with chemical weapons in the suburbs of Damascus are happening practically on a daily basis.”
 * The organization, which has dozens of doctors in field hospitals across Syria, said 97 percent of victims were civilians, and the cases were mainly concentrated in the suburbs of Damascus.
 * The organization, which has dozens of doctors in field hospitals across Syria, said 97 percent of victims were civilians, and the cases were mainly concentrated in the suburbs of Damascus.

(...)
 * ''One of the group’s doctors, oncologist Mousa al-Kurdi, an Englishman, says he was inside Syria, Idlib, when four victims of the Saraqeb incident, all from one family, were brought in, he says looking like Sarin victims. The 50-year-old mother died later, but all survived to his clinic, and past it into Turkey. "Chamaa called this case a unique opportunity for the international community to gain clear proof of chemical weapons use, since numerous samples were taken from all four patients in Turkey. The body of the woman who died remained there." --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:10, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

CW Defector Zaher al-Sakat
Brigadier-General Oskar Schindler Zaher al-Sakat : "in this way I saved hundreds of lives of children and others."
 * Syria: 'Bashar al-Assad ordered me to gas people - but I could not do it' Richard Spencer, The Telegraph, Sept. 21, 2013.

As chief scientific officer in the army's fifth division, this unlikely hero ran chemical weapons operations in the country's southern Deraa province for the bloodthirsty regime. "The regime wanted to "annihilate" the opposition using any means," the Telegraph's Spencer, a man drawn to the most level of sources, writes. Among these means, starting in October 2012, Sakat says he was ordered, on three occasions, "to use a mixture of phosgene and two other chlorine-based agents against civilian targets in Sheikh Masqeen, Herak, and Busra, all rebel-held districts." Instead, he says he swapped out the chemical agents with water and dilute bleach "which would give off a similar chlorine smell." The regime idiots were fooled three times, he says, and "In this way I saved hundreds of lives of children and others." But that last dud, in January, had suspicions finally raised, and so he ran off to Jordan and formally defected in the spring. From keeping up on the news, "Gen Sakat believes chemical weapons have now been used 34 times, rather than the 14 occasions cited by international intelligence agencies." This is the same exact high-end number decided on back before June 1 (see right above), with numerous alleged incidents since, including and even after Aug. 21. But as of late September, 34 is now the current number, coincidentally? --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:50, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Beyond this, from his perch in Deraa al-Sakat learned early of "violence against peaceful protesters" that could, on study, very well have been by provocateur snipers using the minaret of the armed Omari mosque to push things in a Jihadi direction. But he also learned somehow about "the first use of "dirty tricks", placing weapons in the mosque where the protests started to suggest the protesters were armed," so he was clearly able to discount such possibilities. And into the future he sees no honest cooperation with the Russian plan to strip the Syrian government of its CW arsenal in exchange for national survival. Again, keeping up on the newest details, and with near omniscience, he told Spencer "before the Lavrov deal, they were already mobilising [chemical weapons] to move to Lebanon and even Iraq," he said. "There have already been weapons handed over to Hizbollah." Others support this, like Fahad al-Masri FSA spokesman, and hacker "Abu Mohammed," who read the transfer orders on unit 450's internal computer system, apparently the same transfers to Hezbollah cited by "western intelligence" to the Western media. Further yet,
 * Gen Sakat said a team of his activists had observed a column of more than 20 vehicles, some identifiable as belonging to the programme, heading towards the Lebanese border. He also alleged that other stocks were being transferred through Iraq to Iran. "They saw these shipments start before Lavrov appeared and mentioned the deal," he said.--Caustic Logic (talk) 11:50, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Al-Nusra's 2 Kg of Sarin
This has already been covered elsewhere, will copy over what exists soon. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 2 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Long War Journal/Threat Matrix, May 31: Reports claim Al Nusrah Front members in Turkey were planning sarin gas attacks
 * While Adana mayor Hüseyin Avni Cos denied that the suspects were captured with sarin gas and warned against labeling them as part of any terror organization, the Turkish mainstream dailies Sabah and Milliyet are reporting today that the suspects were in fact members of the al Qaeda-linked Al Nusrah Front and were captured with sarin gas. Sabah reports that they were planning attacks on the Incirlik Air Base in Adana and in Gaziantep, a city near Turkey's border with Syria. Turkish security units have also allegedly received intelligence that three bomb-laden vehicles have entered Turkey from Syria and are planning attacks even larger than the previous one in Reyhanli, and authorities are now on high alert.


 * According to another daily, Radikal, however, the suspects said that they planned to take the materials back to the conflict areas in Syria. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 2 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Inner City Press, May 31: UN Met Syria on New Rep to Damascus, Bank Blockage Raised, Sarin Suspicions
 * After reports of Al-Nusra arrests in Turkey, having sarin gas, Inner City Press asked Ja'afari what he made of it. He said, the US trying to distance itself from Al-Nusra. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

The latest: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:30, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Syria claims sarin seizure at rebel hideout as Russia ‘blocks’ UN's Qusair resolution – RT, May 2, 2013
 * The Syrian Army has seized two containers with poisonous sarin agent in a rebel hideout, SANA said citing sources. Meanwhile, Russia reportedly blocked the UNSC resolution set to slam Damascus’ offensive on the town of Qusair held by opposition forces.
 * Syrian Arab News Agency reports that sarin, together with automatic rifles, pistols and homemade bombs (IEDs) was seized in the Faraieh neighborhood of the city of Hama.
 * (video)

Some more details from Christof Lehmann. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:56, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Syrian Military seizes Sarin Gas from ” rebels “

There have been five "Al-Qaeda" men busted, "with help of foreign intelligence agencies", said to run a Sarin production at three places in Baghdad and rural Iraq. High-flying plans of attacking Europe etc, guess its all over the news but I read it in this German article from yesterday. --CE (talk) 22:18, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Al-Nusra Plastic Grenades
Petri first brought this here, and it's awesome. We have an astute photographer, Jeffry Ruigendijk, and Eliot Higggins/Brown Moses to thank. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:28, 9 May 2013 (UTC) Brown Moses today: Source: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:46, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Jabhat Al-Nusra Photographed With "Chemical Weapons" – 8 May 2013
 * Jabhat Al Nusra with 'chemical weapons' – Ruig Photography

It seems the same style of unknown grenade turned up after two chemical attacks, in Sheikh Maqsoud, Aleppo, April 13 and in Saraqeb, Idleb province, April 29. It looks like a white plastic body with top of metal and plastic, gas-emitting and non-exploding type, so intact afterwards and photographed in each case (that was news to me for the latter case). Then Ruigendijk saw those and it clicked with a photo he took in Syria of some real asshole Al-Nusra guy in that sort of area (but closer to the NATO border). He was some kind of rule-enforcer I guess, real self-impressed Jihad hero guy, who had on his chest, displayed and at the ready a dagger, handcuffs, and one of these grenades. There are a few question marks right there, but... One notion I like (see comments) is that they were whipped up on one of these 3-D printers and thus won't even appear in the weapons guide books. Where it comes from is then supposed to be some big mystery. What's in them is not entirely clear. I guess the Turks might know, but they aren't telling us yet, and may never tell the truth. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:28, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Thus, "al-Nusra grenade" seems a fair shorthand for these items. There were later efforts to re-define them as tools of the Syrian regime some rebels simply may have found a few of. There was a report of some captured on government soldiers, shown on video among other items (link/details forthcoming). There was also an effort by German journalist Alfred Kackensberger to track dow the grenades' source. He asked people, first regular rebels, then al-Nusra front fighters, then a defected soldier, and the impression he got was that these came from the Syrian military, and might therefore, in other cases, be still held and used by them. Brown Moses published the account here: The Hunt For Chemical Weapon Attack Linked Gas Grenades In Syria (July 19).
 * ...we found two rebels at front line position in Assafireh who immediately recognized them. They were sure of seeing them on rebels, but didn't remember if the were from Liwa Tawhid or al-Nusra. But anyway, they said this were smoke grenades, not chemical grenades. ... At the al-Nusra Base fighters recognised the grenade immediately, and showed grenades of same type or series. They said: "All are smoke grenades, and we got them from Syrian Army depots." Again, they pointed out that their grenades are not "chemical weapon" grenades. Regarding whether or not they used them in combat, they didn't mention, or didn't want to mention anything. To my understanding, nobody we were talking to was aware that these kind of grenades were used in the alleged chemical attacks in Saraqeb or Sheikh Maqsoud. We had to explain to them, that these ones were used. I mean they really didn't know anything about them.

The only army guy who "confirms" their origin with the Syrian military is a defector who says they're supplied by sneaky Iran, and have a mysterious nerve agent inside. People he saw trained with the actual item, ergo his recognizing it, which either means just throwing or pulling and throwing, right? It keeps allegedly testing as Sarin and peddled as cause for war. Also, he failed to implicate Russia in this little story, so not convincing enough. ;) Also note the source "goes back and forth to the Turkish border to organise weapon transports," but that's not where he saw it. He was just the guy the annoyed end-receivers of those weapons pointed the journalist towards. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:21, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Idelb Incident, around May 1
(misspelling left as a reminder to watch that middle-letters dylsexia) --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:52, 2 May 2013 (UTC) Cotnent moved to Talk:Alleged Chemical Attack, April 29, 2013 --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:52, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Syria Accuses Turkey
About time.First source, not best: Talk Radio News Service, Syria Blames West For Chemical Weapons Attacks As UN Investigates From Afar, April 26. The UN investigation is investigating, the report says. On Cyprus, fine for a start. They can go to Khan Al-Assal whenever they want, and Geneva or New York already has evidence sent to them. Anyway, the meat:
 * Assad government officials Friday rejected U.S. and British allegations Damascus had used its chemical arsenal against opposition fighters, and instead accused Turkey of allowing rebels to transfer chemical weapons across the border into Syria.

Is that really all it says? Well, here's a space for that issue. Should be good, eventually. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:35, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

British MI6 operation
I did not know British MI6 agents were operating in Syria:
 * Chemical weapons used in Syria: the first evidence – The Times, April 13 2013 (Original source)
 * Forensic evidence of chemical weapons use in Syria has been found for the first time in a soil sample smuggled out of the country in a secret British operation.
 * Defence sources, who declined to be named, said yesterday that conclusive proof that “some kind of chemical weapon” had been fired in Syria had been established by scientists at the Ministry of Defence’s chemical and biological research establishment at Porton Down in Wiltshire.
 * The discovery, which had not been made public, will put pressure on the United States to consider punitive action against President Assad. The White House warned in December...


 * British scientists 'find evidence of Syrian chemical attack' – The Telegraph, April 12 2013
 * The tests at Porton Down reportedly concluded that the chemical traces were from a weapon rather than gas sometimes used by the Syrian security forces to put down protests.


 * UK ‘confirms’ use of chemical weapons in Syria after secret MI6 op – report – RT, April 13, 2013
 * The UK Ministry of Defense has claimed that chemical weapons were used in the Syrian conflict. Forensic evidence was collected after scientists analyzed soil smuggled out of the country in a secret British operation, the Times reported.
 * The sample was reportedly extracted from a neighborhood on the outskirts of Damascus in March by MI6 agents operating within Syria, the Australian reported at the time.


 * Arutz Sheva, 4/14/2013 UK Finds Proof of Use of Chemical Weapons in Syria – Arutz Sheva, 4/14/2013
 * UK says that chemical weapons were used in the Syrian conflict, after scientists analyzed soil smuggled out of the country.


 * ‘Soil sample proves chemical weapons used in Syria’
 * The sample, said to be taken from a neighborhood on the outskirts of Damascus, was delivered to the UK Ministry of Defense’s chemical and biological research establishment at Porton Down in Wiltshire, where it was identified as containing traces of “some kind of chemical weapon.”

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 04:42, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Excellent, Petri, thanks! Was not up to getting up to speed on this yet, this list helps. Porton Down and British spies snagging dirt were reported before, after Khan Al-Assal (March 19). There, no CW, just "super-power tear gas," they speculated, prior to completing the testing. Because otherwise, it looked like rebel chlorine ... Here, they scientifically and cautiously cannot say what chemical/molecules and stuff. Not for sure Sarin. But definitely a regime-type chemical, probably. Of course. The sample is from near Porton Down, I suspect. Maybe Watership Down, and it's rabbit poison. --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:05, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Possible/Sorta CW Incidents
After the March 24 incident proved so baseless, and this apparent new one of March 28 looks the same, I decided I won't start new pages unless warranted by some further evidence. All those reported from now could be entered with a sub-section here, and explored. Some might get their own page, others just that section here. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

I completely forgot about this philosophy when starting the page on the shaky Alleged chemical attack, April 9, 2013. But the one four days later was more solid, has actual dead humans (two infants and a woman) and deserves its own page. --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:06, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

March 28, Daraya
Youtube video I stumbled across: خطير داريا حالات اختناق بغازات الفوسفور جراء القصف 28-3-2013 (Gtrans: Darya cases of suffocation dangerous gases phosphorus shelling). Channel: DaryaRevlution coordinating city Darya Syrian revolution in Damascus, follow on Facebook. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

May, Qusayr
May 4, FSA spokesman Louay Meqdad says they're still investigating before announcing whether, in fact, Hezbollah shelled Qusayr GM with mustard gas. See Al-Arabiya. Cool side-quote with a bit added:
 * Hezbollah is using these sectarian excuses to drag Lebanese youth into the Syrian conflict,” Almokdad said, urging Lebanon's Sunnis to rise up and help fight the Alawite regime and the Israeli-backed Shi'ite conspiracy. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:41, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Poison Gas Missile on Video!!!
Found at Right Side News (anti-war via anti-Obama) - an article with hits and misses, worth a look. On this, they say: '"Even if we examine the sources in Arabic we find that the reporting on this story is usually done by masters of confusion. For example, how can an FSA reporter film an exploded chemical rocket at a close distance and remain alive?" ICHQIKQPiU4 By chanting Allahu Akbar, clearly. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:27, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

My Article
For readers, I am also named Adam Larson (real name) and I wrote this May 2 article at Global Research: Was the Syria Chemical Weapons Probe “Torpedoed” by the West?. It's been read and re-posted a bit. Just saw the following:
 * Brown Moses, May 8: Comments On The Use Of Chemical Weapons In Syria
 * ''I should start this post by saying that in the past I've found much of what's been posted on Global Research to[o] be far to conspiratorial for my liking, and in many cases just plain nonsense (for example this piece), so when I say this piece is a good round up of reports of chemical weapon use in Syria, it's not something I say lightly.
 * As this post is a partly response to the article Was the Syria Chemical Weapons Probe “Torpedoed” by the West?, it's best to start giving that a read. While I may not agree with some of the conclusion the article draws,...

The critique is of technical aspects and my characterization of Khan al-Assal (which seem fair), leading into his interesting weapons correlation. Nothing on the main content, just riding my famous article's coat tails. :) --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:15, 9 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree with Brown Moses on the Green Square issue. I have always found it best to steer away from Gaddafi supporters claiming that Green Square jubilation was a media hoax filmed in Qatar – days and weeks after Tripoli was taken. (Some people still seem to believe this.)
 * Me too,of course. Silliness. They also promoted the Sept. 11 Pentagon non-jet hoax theories. Not perfect but a prominent platform with a majority of pretty good stuff. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:33, 10 June 2013 (UTC)


 * As to rockets, BM is wrong in dismissing the ranges of BM-21 Grad projectiles. Some of these can fly over 40 km. The rocket in the video could also be some variation of the Palestinian / Hamas Qassam rocket. The Qassam 4 may have equal range. If Syria says the rocket was fired from "Al-Bab" it does not have to be 47km away, but whatever the closest rebel position is. Unless the Syrian Army establishes full control over Al-Bab, it is unlikely to be more then 20 km away. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 15:20, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Tighter, updated, improved edit drafted May 4. Was supposed to be run, but now online at the CIWCL site. A good read. Middle part has the "new" stuff, April 3-5. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:33, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

UN investigations

 * Moved to Talk:UN chemical weapons investigations

More polyethylene glycol?
Something "corrosive" found: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 18:52, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Syrian rebels' Damascus chemical cache found by Assad army - State TV – RT, July 14, 2013
 * Banias:
 * On July 7, the Syrian army confiscated “281 barrels filled with dangerous, hazardous chemical materials” that they found at a cache belonging to rebels in the city of Banias. The chemicals included monoethylene glycol and polyethylene glycol.
 * Jobar (Damascus):
 * A video shot by RT’s sister channel Russia Al Youm shows an old, partly ruined building which was set up as a laboratory. After entering the building, Syrian Army officers found scores of canisters and bags laid on the floor and tables. According to a warning sign on the bags, the “corrosive” substance was made in Saudi Arabia.

DIY mortar
From Syrian Perspective YouTube channel: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 07:59, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
 * FSA using a chemical warhead shell on civilian areas during the attack on Aleppo – Syrian Perspective, Jul 10, 2013

This has been identified as a "Hell Cannon" as they call it, homemade, Brown Moses has a page on these. They're firing rockets with propane tanks. Tanks could be filled with something else, or propane, can't really tell. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:53, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Channel 4 Snowblog?
This was supposedly posted to Jon Snow's blog Snowblog on the UK Channel4 site:
 * Nuclear Strikes On Syria: The Genie Is Already Out Of The Bottle – By Jon Snow, August 5, 2013
 * Greg Thielmann, an expert on arms control policy supposedly says: “It’s not an issue, the insurgents are now armed with chemical weapons manufactured in Georgia exactly for this scenario. Assad’s pulse was tested in Khan Assal a week ago when an entire brigade was killed with chemical weapons and there was no response. We don’t see a likely response to further use of this tool.”

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 13:09, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Weird. I had seen that title on something else, I thought, but it was on this and I never looked close. Jon Snow apparently didn't stand behind it for long. Was he hacked? Let me read this. ... It doesn't sound right to me. Nuclear, chemical, brutal regime, "a remarkably delicious possibility," etc. He doesn't seem that senile at all on video. As for the Georgia CW, intriguing if I was trusting the source. I didn't even search Thielmann yet, let alone ask him if he said any of this. I presume he exists, to pass the initial test at least. As for a late-July CW attack, possible honest mix-up of the reports that soldiers were killed and also witnesses to a CW attack were killed. A doofus might think they had witnessed the CW attack that killed them just then as they witnessed it, and decide now was the time to get a mainstream regime-hating journalist to expose that, plus Israeli nuke attacks, etc. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:22, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Greg Thielmann seems quite notable, he has two articles on Wikipdia :-) Petri Krohn (talk) 07:05, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Greg Thielmann served as a top intelligence official at the U.S. State Department until he resigned shortly before the U.S. invasion of Iraq and charged the George W. Bush administration with cooking its intelligence.
 * ''Greg Theilmann was the acting director of the Office of Strategic Proliferation and Military Affairs at the U.S. State Department. He was the person responsible for analyzing the Iraqi weapons threat for Colin Powell. Theilmann is a member of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS).

Rebel CW possession?
We should start a dedicated page on rebel possession of chemical weapons. Here is one claim, previously overlooked: Analyzed in more detail here: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:34, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * حقيقة من يستخدم الغازات الكيماوية / إعتراف واضح بإستخدام الجيش الحر هذه الغازات (The fact of the uses of chemical gases / clear recognition using the army free of these gases) – SyriaTube, 07/10/2013
 * Evidence: Syria gas attack work of U.S. allies – WND, August 27, 2013

Rebels admit to using chemical weapons?
There are many claims of the rebels admitting to using or possessing chemical weapons. Here is one such video: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 12:23, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
 * SYRIA Jihadist Admits To Having & Using Toxic Gas, Justifies Killing Women & Children – VexZeen, Aug 30, 2013

So this is a second story, not a new find: Video: Syrian Rebel Admits Using Chemical Weapons --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Arrests in Turkey

 * Turkey finds sarin gas in homes of suspected Syrian Islamists – reports – RT, May 30, 2013, updated September 14, 2013
 * Syrian rebel groups sought to buy materials for chemical weapons, prosecutors say – Doğan News Agency, Hurriyet Daily News, September 12, 2013
 * ''A public prosecutor completed his indictment as part of the probe into the chemicals seized in the southern province of Hatay on Sept. 12, claiming that jihadist Syrian rebel groups were seeking to buy materials that could be used to produce highly toxic sarin gas.


 * ''The indictment, which included transcripts of several phone conversations between the suspects involved, said that a 35-year-old Syrian citizen, identified as Hytham Qassap, established a connection with a network in Turkey in order to procure chemical materials for the al-Nusra Front and jihadist Ahrar al-Sham Brigades.


 * ''The indictment rejected the legitimacy of the suspects’ claim that they were unaware the chemicals they tried to obtain could be used to produce sarin gas.


 * ''The indictment also contained Qassap’s testimony where he confessed his links with the Ahrar al-Sham Brigades and moved to the city of Antakya following the instructions of its leader, Abu Walid. “After I arrived in Antakya, other rebel groups had come into contact with me. While some had asked me for medicine and other humanitarian aid supplies, others wanted to obtain military equipment,” he told prosecutors.


 * ''A total of 11 people were arrested during the investigation launched late May after police received a tip suggesting that some Syrian rebel groups were looking to procure materials that could be used to produce chemical weapons.


 * U.S. MILITARY CONFIRMS REBELS HAD SARIN – F. MICHAEL MALOOF, WDN, September 12, 2013
 * ''Classified document shows deadly weapon found in home of arrested Islamists


 * ''In a classified document just obtained by WND, the U.S. military confirms that sarin was confiscated earlier this year from members of the Jabhat al-Nusra Front, the most influential of the rebel Islamists fighting in Syria.
 * ''The document says sarin from al-Qaida in Iraq made its way into Turkey and that while some was seized, more could have been used in an attack last March on civilians and Syrian military soldiers in Aleppo.


 * ''It revealed that AQI had produced a “bench-scale” form of sarin in Iraq and then transferred it to Turkey.
 * ''A U.S. military source said there were a number of interrogations as well as some clan reports as part of what the document said were “50 general indicators to monitor progress and characterize the state of the ANF/AQI-associated Sarin chemical warfare agent developing effort.”


 * Turkey indicts 11 linked with Syria militants caught with sarin gas – PressTV, Sep 14, 2013
 * Syria Rebels Ordered 10 Tons of Sarin Nerve Agent in Turkey – FNA, September 14th, 2013

September 2013

 * Iran regrets US ignorance of warning on chemical arms in Syria, Press TV, September 12, 2013


 * Iran Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif has expressed regret that the United States ignored the Islamic Republic’s warning on the access by militant groups fighting in Syria to dangerous chemical weapons.


 * “We have indications and we have shared those indications in the past with the United States and with others … [that] extremely dangerous chemical weapons were being smuggled into Syria to armed groups that are fighting the Syrian people and the Syrian government,” Zarif told Press TV in an exclusive interview on Wednesday.


 * The Iranian minister noted that “unfortunately” the US did not give any response to Iran’s warning.


 * Turkish prosecutor indicts six jihadists for alleged attempts to acquire chemicals with intent to produce sarin – The Kurdish Cause, September 12, 2013

From Facebook
Some feedback on Facebook:
 * https://www.facebook.com/hands.off.syria2/posts/520709171348319?comment_id=53062662&offset=0&total_comments=1

Evidence that may be useful for your future posts. Two sources of chemical weapons are used by rebels in Syria.
 * Andy Yip:


 * Source 1:
 * 1) Turkey confirms and identified the Al-Qaeda sarin gas ring in Syria.
 * 2) * http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/09/15/turkey-confirms-syrian-rebels-with-al-qaida-ties-sought-chemical-weapons/
 * 3) This video shows Al-Qaeda linked Chemical Weapon attack with possible foreign support in behind. It shows the chemical lab in a captured rebel compound.
 * 4) * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGz_LCGg2TI
 * 5) The UN inspectors were requested to check out chemical weapons in rebels' hands back in May 2013.
 * 6) * http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/uns-carla-del-ponte-says-there-is-evidence-rebels-may-have-used-sarin-in-syria-8604920.html..
 * 7) The videos of launching the same blue gas containers on the rockets by rebels.
 * 8) * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I_WsMKjH6Q
 * 9) * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JT6cIOgfoU


 * Source 2:


 * 1) On 16 Dec 2012, Washington Post reported that rebels who seized the Sheik Suleiman military base near Aleppo, where research on chemical weapons had been conducted. Rebels are also closing in on another base near Aleppo, known as Safirah, which has served as a major production center for such munitions.
 * 2) * http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-16/world/35864232_1_chemical-weapons-chemical-arms-free-syrian-army
 * 3) On 03 Aug 2013, AFP reported that the rebels captured government weapon depot with ground to ground missiles.
 * 4) * http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4413122,00.html.
 * 5) On 08 Aug 2013, there are reports that rebels have the capacity of firing captured military grade (not homemade) ground-to-ground missile system from their looting of weapon depots.
 * 6) * http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/08/08/syrian-rebels-capture-11-villages-near-assads-hometown-alawite-heartland/

In this 2nd scenario, There is a high possibility of Al-Qaeda linked rebels looting Syrian army weapon, deploying the chemical weapon with captured ground to ground rockets in order to blame the Syrian government.

OPCW
I am reading this summary of the New York Times article by Finian Cunningham: What Cunningham is saying, and what I also inferred from between the lines, is that the Syrian government has admitted to the OPCW that is has lost control of one or more of its chemical weapons storage sites. The implication is that ISIL / al-Nusra Front / Liwa al-Islam now has access to unlimited supplies of sarin, far more than would be needed for the Ghouta CW attack. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:55, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * West toxic lie on Syria exposed – Finian Cunningham, PressTV, October 17, 2013


 * Well, it has turned out quickly that most of the stocks are of unweaponized "precursors" which might rot in some underground facilities the "rebels" might not have access to even when they hang around on the airfield on the surface ... so maybe it's not that dramatic, but I also have a hard time imagining how the process of visiting those sites should function. --CE (talk) 23:15, 17 October 2013 (UTC)


 * November 2013:
 * Syrian chemical weapons likely to be destroyed abroad - Russia – RT, November 01, 2013
 * ''OPCW experts have so far visited 21 out of 23 chemical weapons sites across Syria. The two remaining facilities are currently too dangerous to visit due to military action between government forces and Islamist rebels.
 * ''According to the watchdog, chemical equipment from the unvisited facilities was moved to sites where the inspections were performed.

June 2013 Kerry document?
What is this document Kerry is holding in the situation Room? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:26, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Obama’s Uncertain Path Amid Syria Bloodshed – MARK MAZZETTI, ROBERT F. WORTH and MICHAEL R. GORDON, The New York Times, October 22, 2013
 * ''With rebel forces in Syria in retreat and the Obama administration’s policy toward the war-ravaged country in disarray, Secretary of State John Kerry arrived at the White House Situation Room one day in June with a document bearing a warning. President Bashar al-Assad of Syria had used chemical weapons against his people, the document said, and if the United States did not “impose consequences,” Mr. Assad would see it as a “green light for continued CW use.”
 * ''The State Department’s June warning, laid out in a document obtained by The New York Times, proved to be prophetic...