Talk:Al-Bayda Massacre

The Victims in Al-Bayda
The following subsets of various types of victims need sorted out individually for clues, the groups compared for possible overlap, and understood in time and space as much as possible. It might take a while, at our rate, to do it right. But below is a start. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

A Victims List
First, since we have the ensuing Baniyas massacre(s) mixed-in, this list is only for those victims given for al-Bayda, on May 2, May 3, or any other relevant day that might pop up. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC) (First entry with Arabic is from Saned N.N Facebook
 * 1) Omar Nassiriyah aka/alias Omar Biassi  ( عمر نصرية الملقب عمر بياسي  )- Omar Biassie, Imam of al-Bayda mosque, executed with family by rebels
 * 2) Manar Albiassi (  منار البياسي ), killed with husband Zakaria al-Shawish. Alt: Manar Biaasie, The Imam’s sister, also killed by rebels with "her husband and their kids."
 * 3) Zakaria al-Shawish ( زكريا الشاويش ) killed with his wife Manar Albiassi. Alt: killed with their children as well.
 * 4) (unnamed, un-numbered: the children here)
 * 5) Yousef Fattouh ( يوسف فتوح  )
 * 6) Yousef Fattouh's brother ( وشقيقه )
 * 7) Abu Ahmed Munira ( ابو احمد منيرة )
 * 8) Sabah/Sbah al-Shehri/alshghry ( صباح الشغري )
 * 9) Yasser Taha ( ياسر طه  )
 * 10) Mohammed Safi Tyba ( محمد صافي طيبا )
 * 11) Maaz Tyba ( معاذ طيبا )
 * 12) Abdul Qader/Abdelkader Udour/qdwr (? translates "pots") Walid/wald Mohammed (? Mohammed's Father) high/graduated (grandfather?), ( عبد القادر قدور والد محمد )

Total: 11 plus the children (14-17 is a reasonable guess) "and all of them were killed by burning." ( عليا وجميعهم استشهدوا حرقا )

The Imam and his Family
Syrian Girl Partisan on Facebook posted one account from activist Kinan Zeno, relating the basic common themes he heard from friends living in Baniyas (not eyewitnesses but informed). The Imam of Bayda mosque is central to this narrative, named as Omar Biassie. He was a former revolution supporter. until the rebels:
 * ...made a lie about him that SAA killed him. So he appeared on the Syrian TV saying they are lying and its part of the propaganda. Apparently FSA hated him for this. And now it was the right time to kill him and his family for real this time to blame the SAA and whine about it like they always do.

The second targeted family, Zeno says, was the Imam’s sister, Manar Biaasie, massacred with her husband and their children. He cited a rebel-affiliated victims list, cited above, with these same names included, noting "they know exactly who they killed." And for context, his sources pointed out that these killing happened earlier in the day, around the time of the initial clashes, before the Syrian Arab Army really entered the fray:
 * Before the army got there, terrorists were in control of the town and did their massacre killing the 2 families of Baiaase. Army came, surrounded the Bayda. Killed the terrorists. 9 soldiers were martyred in this operation. Since there were army martyrs, it means the town was infected with many rats. So whoever killed those soldiers also killed the 2 families.

This remains to be confirmed by more detailed study, but it all sounds eminently plausible, given established precedents. --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

The Imam is not generally mentioned, at least as that, in opposition reports or in pro-regime sources. At least SANA's scant reports make no mention of civilian victims at all. (May 2/3 - May 15) The sleuths at the UK Daily Telegraph heard from their rebel sources a woman with family there: "My aunt and uncle were stabbed to death in the stomach and their necks were slashed. Their three children were slaughtered in the neck." This might be the second family mentioned, as the only husband-wife couple mentioned. She would then be a relative of the imam, which doesn't come through here, in a report cleverly titled "Sunni village 'massacred' in Alawite heartland." --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:04, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

However, pro-rebel Yalla Souriya reported, later, on May 4, that "Sheikh Omar Bayasi," shown dead in a rebel photo, was in fact "the Imam of al Bayda Mousqe in Bayda Village, Banias." He was killed May 2 in "Assad’s bloody massacre ... Rest in Peace Mr. Omar and Rest in Shame Humanity!" But it was the rebels who were there to take his photo to prove it in no big rush. Looks to be mid-morning, but that might be my imagination. No background clues on location. He lain face-first in a pool of blood, marring his white hair and beard. The blood has dried a bit, but he's freshly dead. His face shows perhaps the most extreme disappointment. No precise clue to death - he wasn't killed by burning, from the neck up anyways. Blood from the nose, suggested, is consistent with a few things. The hi-res photo was taken very close-up, no Shabiha or army snipers barring the way to this citizen journalist-activist. source--Caustic Logic (talk) 12:04, 23 May 2013 (UTC) and --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:17, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Open Questions:
 * Can we track down this video where the sheikh accused the rebels of falsely reporting his death once before?  --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:04, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Can we time the photo with any precision? Order of operations here clearly matters. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:17, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * What if any significance is their to Sheikh Biassi being listed aka Nassiriya? --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:04, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Where are the Shabiha?
Opposition reports seem to acknowledge there was an engagement in which they killed some pro-government militiamen earlier on May 2. Don't they? Do they show the bodies? Does the government side? Are they the 20-ish that were somehow charred after the army apparently had access in the early afternoon? Is this batch of 20-30 dead included in the rebel total? Properly assigned or re-branded as local Sunni civilians? These I suggest we consider and paste quotes we see here, as they come up. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:05, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Numbers (I was vague): German press agency DPA (via Moon of Alabama) heard "Activists said troops attacked al-Bayda after a bus carrying pro-regime militants, known as Shabiha, was attacked, killing at least seven and wounding more than 30." Opposition news thing Saned N.N. (translated) heard Shabiha entered and engaged rebels, who "killed 30 Shabiha." Open questions: Did the injured ones escape, or were they captured? And did they survive their capture? Are they counted among the reported 50-100+ killed?--Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

The Curbside victims
I'm getting a very slow start here, but there are obviously also the shoeless victims executed on the curbside in that rather dramatic sloping spot. What would be helpful here is getting a time stamp on the images available. That requires site identification and some shadow reading. Also, a best visual count on the number, dress and character of, and other clues to the victims. For which an image list is most useful. I plan to this weekend or so. And/or, just compile reports.

Open questions:
 * Who were these guys? Who says what, and how much sense does it make, etc.? --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:04, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Are any of these the same as the bodies that would be burnt? Or is this, plus that, plus whatever, an at-least number of dead?--Caustic Logic (talk) 12:04, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Smashed-Head Victims
These were quite visible proof of heinous brutality - several bound men executed, apparently, by having their heads smashed in with bricks and such. This too needs an entry. Nothing for it yet. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

The Burned People/Scene Analysis
There is a photo from activist sources of around 20 bodies partly burnt is an unlit room. This was posted by Yallasouriya, for one, as "Other picture of AL Bayda's massacre," but only on May 4. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights on May 5 published a video of the same bodies, in the same room, all un-burnt and nicely lined-up, also in opposition activist possession. This was, as usual, from the camera phone of one of the soldiers involved, in the raid on Thursday (the 2nd). He wasn't killed, apparently; the video was "leaked" to the activists. The room looks somewhat clinical. The bodies are apparently all adult males. "Footage has been leaked from the camera of a regular soldier who participated in the storming of al-Beyda village on Thursday. The footage shows the bodies of more than 20 people killed in the village, information indicates they were summarily executed." Some are possibly rebel fighters, some apparently not. My guess is not. The soldiers seen in this military zone look semi-convincing, mostly in fatigues, like soldiers or defectors minus jihadists. Some motorcycles, some head-scarves, but otherwise .... They're torching another place already. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:33, 21 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, I have seen these, plus a video of the burnt bodies. All in the same place. Rebel sources claim the "unburnt" video was first published in pro-government site. It should by possible to find the location based on the video.
 * Here is one scenario: The soldiers are SAA. The dead men are executed "shabiha". One body has been dragged out, possibly by SAA. Rebels later counterattack and torch the bodies to destroy evidence. There is some precedence to this. The SAA had control of the main square on al Baida. The white wan was later torched, possibly with bodies in it. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 17:03, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That makes sense. Other than the last part, with ease. I'm not sure how Shabiha sent to raid a weapons cache are supposed to dress these days, and these guys look pretty civilian. And maybe they were .... sorry, behind. But the number is pretty good to explain the 30 "Shabiha" in the bus, and the second burning van right across the way explains the "bus." Except, it's not right across the way, necessarily. The video cuts this into three distinct scenes. The first (the alley with the splayed-legs corpse) could be placed, not done yet. The place with the bodies, I fear cannot be easily placed. If we had a time and clear sun direction to narrow it down, possible. And the final sequence is in that same central square, starting just about in front of the building (city hall?) those bodies were seen at, looking north, turning right to look east down the square. The exact building with the burning van doesn't look right from space at any time, but must be the one right on the corner there. Everything else fits. That makes it early afternoon, around 2 pm as well, shadows short, with SAA in control. So, yeah... should be a legit video.  --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:28, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Placed the first scene. Pause at 0:18. We're on the central square, looking north up the north street. The burning van to the right is the same one just off the square, in that apparent dipped-down garage-place. To confirm, you'd see the mosque looking up that street. Faintly behind the wall in the center of frame, its minaret. Current Google Maps images (Apr 2010) show the right face of the building across from the alley with the burning car (0:14-18). Three big "windows," two little ones below, visible ramp alongside other half. All close to each other, I'm guessing the (nail salon?) the dead guys are piled at is also nearby. Note further smoke near or north and west of or at the mosque. Petri, can you get proper grabs here? --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Same exact view.--Caustic Logic (talk) 12:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Video Proof of SAA executions?

 * YallaSouriya 9:51 pm on May 3, 2013 – Translating this YouTube video: Expose the killers: a full analysis of the massacre of Banias - Beida (+18) Warning
 * Video shows what happened at Bayada and how the regime distorted the truth
 * Sama TV reporter’s Haytham Youssouf explains tha there was an gunfire exchange between armed a group hidden near the mosque minaret and the trees (the nature is entertwined with the village) and both the syrian army and snipers. He explains, that the Syrian army was able to enter the village from the school square and the second school square. The syrian army combed the area
 * ''1:01: “We hope that Bayda will be finished today, the army and the National defense are ready’'
 * Then the camera shows the army entering from the church with a brick roof, and in the back ground there are clashes between the trees who were set on fire. Residents have stayed indoor –
 * Then a series of pictures showing the killing in the square as filmed by Sama TV.
 * The second part of the video shows how the regime has used these pictures, adding arms and moving bodies around


 * YallaSouriya tags: bayada baida banyas

Watched this video with only the on-screen Arabic. I gathered the Jeesh Arabi Souri (Syrian Arab Army) was in control of the area down there and cleaning up. One of their trucks is shown with no dead bodies behind it. In another view (before? after?), those few famous men, apparently executed, lay behind the truck. So either the SAA was killing men there in the open after they took control, or picking up previously killed people in that truck, depending on image order (can be established!). And if the SAA executed those guys (it's possible), maybe they also bashed in those other guys' heads with bricks, etc. Ominous repetition of who was in control down there now. At first, I was going to write that it strongly suggests field executions by the SAA of possibly rebel fighters. But all I'll say is that's possible. Connecting this to all the rest of what happened, extremely tenuous proposition, in whichever case.--Caustic Logic (talk) 09:11, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Petri, this seems to be the same footage you said elsewhere is filmed from a ridge west of town. I'm trying to get my bearings here. Can you identify this building, dead centered on GM? --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought from the view of the square and the road curving off to the left that thew was from the northeast. It seems so. View of this building, road curve, and distant (poultry farms?) says the view is about down that NE-pointing perimeter wall on this place. Filming spot? Is that light speck dead-centered there this water reservoir? --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Got my bearings, Petri, and pretty certain now. The building I asked you about is here. The April 5, 2010 imagery used for Google Maps is not a match, but on Google Earth, the later Oct. 5, 2011 imagery shows it's apparently been remodeled to match, with raised stairwell on the right side. The big two-building complex here on GM: I thought it almost must be the one I was looking for, despite no match, ridiculously speculating on a major re-model to one building... that, I realize, is visible in the video, lower left,  here, at 0:38, a distinct place on nearly the same line. So  yeah, we're looking west and southwest here. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

The above direction-setting will help establish solar angles and the timeline here. That, should go right below this, whoever does it first. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * My first look says both images -with and without the dad men -are from about the same time, not timed out but somewhat after noon, sun from the southwest. The prominent curved building face with the walkway has the tips of the walkway railing barely catching sun when there are no bodies (video 1:37) At 1:45, the other view, lower angle, apparently no sun hitting the corners. That suggests the sun has inched further west, so it's later. If so, that suggests the SAA did execute four guys there, in the open square. But that's a preliminary assessment, not at all certain yet. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

The shirts pulled over heads is not a proof of anything. It is easy to claim it proves that the killed men were captives and thus executed. However, every prisoner I have ever seen, in Syria or in Iraq captured by Americans has had the shirt pulled over the head from behind. The dead men on the square have the shirts pulled over their head from the front. I believe this is just to cover their faces, to let them rest in peace and to indicate to others that the men are truly dead and do not need medical attention. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * True, and I see the same thing in those shirts. And they have their shoes on too, partly at least. They could have run up shooting and been shot down in action right there, although I kind of doubt that. We might be seeing a technical war crime here. As for all the others ... different stories, each one. In fact, there are marked differences between these and the others that might help make an interesting case. And a side-note, I'm stumped on the close-up photo. Activist image from "The Syrian Revolution against Bashar Assad" to AP. The video shows a wide-cropped version that I cannot find so far on the Internet as a JPEG. I wonder really how they got it? Not the usual place for the usual activists to be filming. Just up one of these hills (will identify it and get time stamps), they were filming people with shoes removed and executed en masse. That's more usual. But here the army is in charge. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)



Here's the graphic. Azimuth (angles) approximate, using NOAA solar calculator, GMT +3 Here's the image, giving a time frame of about 1:50-2:10 PM, or around 15-25 minutes between images, killing at about 2 PM. Will double-check if I had the DST setting right, etc. Possibly should say an hour later. Either way, that's a small span, and a rather public spot to do this, a spot getting filmed by SANA just minutes before. Sure, you could make sure it's edited out, but there could be complications, best to just not let them see. But it's just enough minutes. It could be the movement we see there is connected to some captive rats being brought down the hill. Say, eight minutes later, perhaps, the commander verifies the news crew is done and gone, orders the rats exterminated right there. Maybe they were angry about the Imam and his family and other civilians being massacred and burned by these rats. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:54, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

SOHR Reports

 * Tartous province- Banias city:
 * ''There are reports of summary executions being committed by regime forces and pro-regime gunmen (Shabiha) in the village of al-Bayda, on the outskirts of the city, as testified by locals. the SOHr is yet to verify the deaths because of the regime control of the area and the cut off of communication there. Regime forces went on a raid and arrest campaign in the village, detaining 8 civilians, including 2 children, after storming the village. Mortars were launched onto the village during the storming. The area by the village was the site of earlier clashes today between rebels and regime forces, leading to the death of 6 regime forces and the injury of no less than 20 others, no reports yet on the number of rebels killed.
 * (as at Taldou, I suspect not enough to slow them down much as the massacres ensued) --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:41, 3 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Tartous province- Banias city:
 * There are several and conflicting reports on the number of people killed in the village of al-Bayda by regime forces and pro-regime gunmen from the nearby villages. Some testimonies indicate that more than 50 people were killed, including women and children, by summary execution, some were claimed to have been killed by knives, blunt objects and burning. Other reports put the number of dead higher, to more than 100. There are tens of villagers who have gone missing. Several houses were burnt and destroyed. It must be stated that the SOHR has not been able to verify the deaths, with full telephone and internet blockout in the village, which is under regime control.


 * We strongly urge the Red Cross and legal organisations to head to al-Bayda village to document and verify the level of death and destruction caused.


 * The city of Banias itself is witnessing a cautious calm after the gunfire and bombardment that took place in the southern neighbourhoods.


 * Violence in the Banias area is extremely worrying since its demographics easily lend to sectarian communal violence.

May 16 update, Baniyas

 * SOHR May 16: 145 civilians (34 children, 40 women, 71 men) killed in the Banias massacre: Includes alleged details and a horrible photo of about 20 mangled bodies in a courtyard, including small children. I didn't even look at it yet - not in the mood. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Includes alleged details:
 * 145 civilians (34 children, 40 women, 71 men) killed in the Banias massacre
 * The SOHR has now documented 145 victims killed in the Banias massacre, this comes after receiving evidence proving that the dozens of civilians who were in the torched houses or under the rubble were secretly buried by the Syrian security forces.
 * The security forces and gunmen from the popular committees stormed the Ras al-Nabe' neighbourhood on the morning of 3/5/2013, which lies in the souther part of Banias, after the impoverished neighbourhood was violently bombarded causing the collapse and burning of several homes. It is then that they committed the massacre, many of the victims were summarily executed and some were killed with knives and blunt objects. The dead include 34 children (all under 16, some of them were babies and toddlers) and 40 women (including old women over 60). This massacre is considered to be one of the most horrendous war crimes committed by the Syrian security services and the pro-regime gunmen, since the victims were targeted for their religious background.
 * No flies! Photo would have to be taken soon after death.
 * Also of note is that there is no blood and no apparent cause of death. Looking at this picture alone, it is with in the realm of possibility that these people are facing death. (See below.) -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:11, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Petri, sorry, I got confused here. This is a scene from the later Baniyas massacre. Above we're talking May 2, al-Bayda, with this a bit mixed in. I think this clarifies why we need a separate page. If it turns out somehow it's all the same or whatever, still most people know this as two incidents. So unless you disagree, I propose taking this and some other stuff to a new page, interlinking the pages, and giving each and its numerous crime scenes and details some room to breathe. --Caustic Logic (talk) 20 May 2013


 * Ras al-Nabe' neighbourhood may be what SyrPer calls Al-Nabi' Quarter in Banyaas itself. This may clarify things a bit. But why is the the burnt-out van still on the central square on May 15th if life is "back to normal"? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:32, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

DPA
Via Moon of Alabama: German news agency DPA reports details about the "earlier clashes" mentioned by SOHR:
 * Activists said troops attacked al-Bayda after a bus carrying pro-regime militants, known as Shabiha, was attacked, killing at least seven and wounding more than 30.

--CE (talk) 16:30, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

SyrPer
Already on Thursday, he reports:


 * TARTOUS: Not much usually happens here in this bastion of pro-government citizens. But, the rats are desperate and are looking for other places to settle. No such luck.


 * 2 warehouses filled with weapons were destroyed by the SAA and militia.


 * At Al-Baydha Village, heavy machine guns were seized and turned over to our brave NDF. There were automatic assault rifles, components for RPGs, RPGs, IEDs and very advanced communication equipment that will remain unused. The owners of the 2 warehouses claim ignorance. But just give them some time with the AI people and they'll warble arias.


 * At Al-Marqab, site of the magnificent coastal fortress, SAA killed 19 insects. Their names are being collected by Wael. He writes that they appear foreign. There are Saudis in the group.


 * In Banyaas itself, at the Al-Nabi' Quarter, we killed 17 rats:


 * 'Ali Mashnooq (Well, he never made it to the gallows)
 * Safwaan Qaramaan
 * Mahmoud Al-'Aashiq
 * Raami Jameel
 * Nabeel Haddaad
 * 'Ali Humaydaan


 * The rest had no papers.

--CE (talk) 16:59, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Syrianews

 * SAA Commits Massacres in Bayda & Qussayr Countryside – Arabi Souri, May 4, 2013

Activists

 * Syria: massacres over last few days | 36 hours comms blackout | Anons restore Internet – May 8, 2013

TV

 * Al Manar 3 May 2013 from Bayda and Qussayr (4:55)
 * Notice how they show the same scene from the central square twice, first with a white pickup and bodies, then with the bodies gone and the bodies gone – with SAA taking cover behind the building. Some rebel counter attack must have happened in between. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:33, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
 * ...or maybe first video is activist footage from time before SAA arrived. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:42, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Newspapers

 * Dozens Killed By Assad Troops In Bayda Massacre, Syrian Activists Say – Ryan Lucas, May 2, 2013
 * Dozens massacred as Syrian forces storm coastal village – Reuters, May 2, 2013
 * Thousands flee Syrian city of Banias fearing new 'massacre' – Associated Press, 4 May 2013
 * Images of Sabra and Shatila in Banias – The Daily Star, Lebanon, May 04, 2013
 * An Atrocity in Syria, With No Victim Too Small – New York Times, May 14, 2013

UN

 * Syria:Thousands Displaced By Deadly Violence in Baniyas Area – Press Release: UN News, 13 May 2013

Photos

 * Other picture of AL Bayda's massacre: Partly charred bodies, many, about 20+, piled in a room. Posted by yallasouriya, 11:23 am on May 4, 2013.
 * First pictures of Al Bayda village massacres by LccSy
 * 750 martyrs in Syria today!
 * Facebook more
 * awda-dawa.com

April 2011

 * Syria Presses Crackdown in Two Cities on Coast – New York Times, April 12, 2011 (mirror)

United States
The reported massacre is said to have influenced the U.S. to again air the possibility of directly arming the rebels. Next batch of people called-in as killed by Shabiha and never investigated will lead to yet another airing and eventually maybe some guns. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:41, 3 May 2013 (UTC)


 * State Dept'spokesman Jen Psaki, May 4: Massacre in al-Bayda
 * The United States is appalled by horrific reports that more than 100 people were killed May 2 in gruesome attacks on the coastal town of al-Bayda, Syria. Regime and Shabiha forces reportedly destroyed the area with mortar fire then stormed the town and executed entire families, including women and children.
 * They make it sound exactly like the Houla massacre. Let's hope it was more like Tremseh. --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:03, 5 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I thought the Al Bayda Massacre was in Libya! Yeah, History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 13:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's just a common name, especially for more or less coastal towns. "The White." Could be referring to limestone, as I think it did in Libya's "the white (monastery)." As if it matters/for a side thing, any related parallels could go here, but aside from dead soldiers, the basic details are pretty different. So other than linguistically and maybe geographically, little repetition here, aside from the whole "Arab Spring / people's uprising" correlations.   --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:03, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
 * It's here. Astonishingly, white like snow in summer! -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:25, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Baniyas Massacre
Should this have its own page? According to the BBC (mainstream) version from activists, "Activists said at least 77 people - 20 from the same family - were killed, a day after 72 died in nearby al-Bayda." Sorry that's all I have. I think yeah, a page for each, closely linked. But I'll ask as a stalling maneuver. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:30, 6 May 2013 (UTC)


 * For now, I think we should keep these together. Maybe we can move this page to Baniyas Massacre.
 * This may just be rebel FUD. The Al-Bayda Massacre was shown to be a hoax. The response: it did not happen there, but here. You just did not look in the right place. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 12:39, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Wait, are you saying they're passing off one massacre as two, or at least that there is only one? They are, as I note, the same basic size and right by each other in time and space. But if only one, it was all in Al-Bayda, with that central square, right? I would guess they might like naming Banyas better as the locale (close enough, arguably) and its coastal/Sunni implications. Not that I suspect rebels had the run of the place or its docks... But we have the right town for the page, not the wrong one then. But we could use more detail. I suppose a search for documentation of each alleged massacre would help. If there's only documentation for one, that's probably all there is. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:05, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

This seems to be evolving into a big, 100+ massacre of children. (At least according to pro-revolutionary social media). We should start collecting all the photos and videos and uploading them here. I can now say one scene is staged. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 12:58, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I've been meaning to ... I will in time (not quick enough to be timely) gather some videos, perhaps looking for Baniyas too as explained right above. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:05, 8 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Most references about Baniyas are in fackt about the Baida massacre. Something did happen in Baniyas though: Thinks smoke in Ras Al-Naba' Neighborhood, #Banias. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:16, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Video

 * Pro-Government "Syrian Resistance" Figure Boasts of Banias Operation – SASNewsNetwork
 * Pro-regime TV claims Banias sweep –  SASNewsNetwork, May 3, 2013
 * This video is from the ridge west of al-Bayda, i can identify the building on central square. This video shows a scene from the same hill. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:20, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Banias - Beidha - the crimes Assad gangs families of the village 252 013 c 3 + +18 – May 3, 2013 by Latakia Coordination Committee
 * Beida - Banias | massacre against women, children and young people "slaughtered with knives" +20 – May 3, 2013, SouriaFree
 * Storm the village Beida in Banias by gangs Assad and the Lebanese Hezbollah militia Lat – May 4, Baniase Aseel
 * Shows bodies in workshop. Later photo shows same workshop with bodies burnt.
 * +18 Baniyas Massacre Banias top of the spring - the massacre of humanity has never seen c 05/16/2013
 * Warning: These bodies have beeed dead for three days. Bloated with maggots – Libya style.

Mihrac Ural

 * Baida Operation Leader Identified as Being a Turkish National


 * Banias massacre suspect claims Israel behind Reyhanlı bombings Erdogan has accused him of being the mastermind of that bombing as well as the Banias massacre, where Erdogan claims 700 civilians were slaughtered. He really lost it. Don't think Ural has any insight into who commited the bombing and blaming Israel is kind of the reflex position in these circles, but it's kind of interesting what he says about Banias - denies any involvement, of course. Josh Landis has written one of his pathetic orientalist tirades quoting Ural out of context making it look as if he was talking about "ethnic cleansing" in the video when he obviously meant getting rid of armed "traitors". He confirms that in the above article and I pointed it out yesterday rather politely in a comment to Landis' article which contained the word Orientalism ... awaits moderation. Still. hahaha. Would be comment 15 of already 90 or so, so I don't think it will make it through. That guy is a master of being constantly wrong since two years, although I think he's not doing it intentionally like so many others. ;oD --CE (talk) 14:51, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Being right and earning a living are two different things. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 20:44, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah! He must have been responsible for the Reyhanlı bombings too. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:45, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Turkey draws closer to illuminating Reyhanlı attack as four more detained How can anyone believe a word of this? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 22:45, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Combined with the ridiculous censorship it isn't easy as this op-ed in Today's Zaman, which is a Gülen movement hence pro-AKP publication, shows. --CE (talk) 23:29, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Syriangirl
This was just posted on Facebook by Syriangirl. I understand these to be not her own observations, but she is reposting comments made on her wall by others. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 08:51, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Here is the information i have received from sources inside and close to Syria.


 * Kinan Zeno
 * So all this non-ending arguement about Banias.To sum it up here is what happened guys.. my sources are friends from Banias. I heard many stories but im sharing only whats in common in all stories.
 * This guy Omar Biaasie, the Imam of Bayda mosque.. he was a big revhead. Then a while ago. They made a lie about him that SAA killed him. So he appeared on the Syrian TV saying they are lying and its part of the propaganda. Apparently FSA hated him for this. And now it was the right time to kill him and his family for real this time to blame the SAA and whine about it like they always do.
 * The other family that was killed was his sister-Manar Biaasie-, her husband and their kids. also proves that him and his family were the ones targeted. btw Bayda isnt all opposition. There are some pro people there too.
 * SAA patrol was besieged near Al-Bayda first, 4 were martyred. Then more army came to help them. Before the army got there, terrorists were in control of the town and did their massacre killing the 2 families of Baiaase. Army came, surrounded the Bayda. Killed the terrorists. 9 soldiers were martyred in this operation. Since there were army martyrs, it means the town was infected with many rats. So whoever killed those soldiers also killed the 2 families. They've done it too many times already in Hawleh and Karm-Zieton. Maybe a desperate try to ruin SAA recent achievements and accuse us of being sectarian which in turn justifies their crimes. Please be careful guys and don't get too excited posting stuff before you're sure. You're just doing them a great favor for free.
 * check this its from an opposition page> it says names the people who died in the massacre.. they know exactly who they killed.
 * http://www.facebook.com/Saned.N.N/posts/648416878518109


 * Sabina Chia
 * Syriangirl I have family there! this is bullshit!
 * The fact is this started circulating when Abdel Salim Khadam's people who are the main sponsors of terrorism in the are shot dead two children from Banias! THE REASON THEY PUT THIS TRAP WAS TO COVER THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY SHOT 2 CHILDREN ,ON THEIR BALCONY (ROOF) IN BANIAS!!!!!!!!THE CHILDREN WERE FROM MY FAMILY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 * Arabi Souri
 * What do you know about those militias? I know them. I have friends among them, i was following them from Latakia countryside to Bayda when they were NOT allowed by SAA to go in due to the sectarian and local tribal sensitivity in that area, yet I refused to comment as tensions are still there.

Saned N.N.
Facebook, Tartous # # # Beida Banias - Saned N.N., Syria supported news network, Paris, posted May 2, 2013 9:38 PM. Intro, translated with Facebook/Bing and Google translate combined: Entry Shabiha (شبيحة) system to al-Bayda Adahmua (? ليداهموا) they break in army weapons storage was free of engagement (meaning no FSA?), and killed 30 Shabiha (شبيح) and Move to the National Hospital Banias. and killed 30 being annoying and concealed to Banias. hospital. Shabiha haotawa (? حاوطوا) and field executions and corpses on the road and in the news field executions women and children, on top of tank shelling on the neighborhood of Ras Rifah. Dozens of martyrs." (Note: Facebook/Bing once renders Shabiha (شبيح) as "being annoying and concealed.") --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC) Anyway, the given names:
 * 1) ابو احمد منيرة - Abu Ahmed Munira
 * 2) ياسر طه - Yasser Taha
 * 3) عمر نصرية الملقب عمر بياسي - Omar Nassiriyah aka/alias Omar Biassi
 * 4) محمد صافي طيبا  - Mohammed Safi Taiban (? translates net good)
 * 5) عبد القادر قدور والد محمد عليا وجميعهم استشهدوا حرقا - Abdul Qader/Abdelkader Udour (? translates pots) Walid Mohammed (? Mohammed's Father) high/graduated, and all of themwere killed by burning.
 * 6) زكريا الشاويش و زوجته منار البياسي  - Zakaria al-Shawish and his wife Manar Albiassi
 * 7) يوسف فتوح وشقيقه  - Joseph Fattouh and his brother
 * 8) معاذ طيبا - Maaz Daiouda/Tyba (? translates "good")
 * 9) صباح الشغري - Sabah al-Shehri/sbah alshghry

Better translation by Google:
 * Entry system شبيحة to egg Adahmua the store for the Army Corps of free Vtm engagement and killed 30 شبيح them and Move to the National Hospital Banias .. Shabeeha Haootooa egg and field executions and bodies road and news Baeidamat the field against women and children.
 * Tanks shelling on the neighborhood of Ras Rifah. The number of martyrs dozens.


 * Better in ways. I left in the funny translation being annoying and concealed. Okay, that's an improvement. That too is a typo, I decided. The last letter is their h in end-of-word form, so it's singular Shabih [sic] or Shabiha as I meant to/should have put. Egg is not exactly white, but is pronounced like Bayda (south of Homs, "East Egg," near Abel), so perhaps a typo, or this town is called the egg instead of the white, even though it is white, and rounded, like an egg. I say al-Bayda, since that's clearly what they mean. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Baby girl with burnt feet
There are several pictures of this girl. Some with charred feet, later ones show her lined up under the tree utility pole with only stumps left. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:39, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Dear Jesus... dignity revolution? Can't even use any kind of blur or anything? I know she's a baby, but ... wow, legs like burnt matchsticks, while alive, perhaps on purpose, or quite like in the chaos of things blowing up in populated areas. WIll check the NYT article that describes her. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

The baby outside in the pile of bodies for two days. Who took this photo of her on a carpet and when? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * May 3, no later. Is that early? I'm vague on this second massacre(s). Yasmeen's sources are very informed, as if they're embedded with the angel of death's own unit there. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Pile of bodies in courtyard
The SOHR photo (published earlier on May 8th by Syrian Revolution Digest, and here on May 5th and May 4th) of the pile is the earliest, taken at around noon. It is possible this photo is taken by the perpetrators of the massacre.

Another photo (published earlier) shows the photo some two hours hours later. There is no movement in most of the bodies, confirming they are indeed dead and not acting out a massacre for the cameras. The girl in the red "28" shirt has been slightly moved. She is later seen lined up next to the pole. The woman in a black dress with a blue face has disappeared. The boy in a striped red shirt, originally lying on top of her, has been thrown further back in the pile. The body shows rigor mortis as his stretched arm is still in the same position.

I do not think the people died or were killed in situ. There is no blood, no bullet holes on bodies or on walls. No apparent cause of death. More likely the bodies were dumped on the spot after death. The most likely explanation is that the people suffocated in a fire. The case has thus similarities with the alleged Aqrab Massacre. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:55, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * On the right, bleeding through the back, a row of splatters. Other bullet holes, but I suspect it was a pre-massacre home assault. Many were from this home, but other brought to maximize the pile. Shabiha buried these people in secret, I think it's said, but only after rebels got photos of the whole pile. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

continued... The way the bodies are entangled is a mystery. Most likely they were dropped from a roof or balcony above the spot. In fact, my cache of photos has two photos filmed from above. (One of them is here in the Syrian Revolution Digest post.) The photos from above, showing the 2 o'clock configuration, show the boy in the striped red shirt and the blue-faced woman on top of the pile, highly entangled with other bodies. It is as if the woman had been pulled from the pile in the noon picture. This would mean that the SOHR noon photo would have to be taken a day later.
 * Possible, but a combo of killed there, tossed from a truck, and dragged into place might also explain it. But tossing into a pile, pain in the ass it might be, does have a sick appeal I could see such beasts going for. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Also of interest is that the photos from show physical wounds. The men have some blood stains, another woman has her face slit in halve, most likely with a saber. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 15:54, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Horrible shit there. I agree, maybe a an axe remove part of that poor woman's face, leaving her with that shocked gasp for a bit. In the SOHR photo, is that girl in the foreground in 28 missing her right hand and trailing ash? Are those other ash trails on the grass by her? Also in the center, apparent young adult male,looks like a sliced throat from this angle, but the above view clarifies that's an illusion. Numerous gashed heads, greater barbarity than at Houla. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

This video, published May 3rd, shows that same family dead, at night, possible inside their house in the same pile, but in yet another arrangement. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:42, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

This set of photos is also taken at noon on the second day. The Red Crescent is present, clearing the pile of bodies. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:17, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Timeline
Syrian street at http://sy-street.net/ reports on May 2nd
 * Violent clashes near the Banias and the army closed the international road
 * Media sources reported that violent clashes took place on Thursday morning, May 2 / May in the village of egg to Banias between the elements of the Syrian Arab Army and armed men were present in the village.
 * The sources said that the clashes began about seven o'clock in the morning and continues until now, and this is why the army to cut the international road between Tartus and Banias.
 * The sources added that the army carried out raids and arrested a number of wanted men in the same village.

Longer story from the same site, with photos:
 * High-ranking military source of the "Syrian street": So would respond to any armed rebellion in safe areas
 * Syrian army was able to control the town, "Beida" in Banias on Thursday, May 2, 2013. And the number of people killed dozens of militants, as dozens of them surrendered the Army was the confiscation of large quantities of weapons.

Al Arabia: 2 May 2013 KSA 22:22 - GMT 19:22
 * Watchdog reports ‘massacre’ in Bayda, at least 50 dead

YallaSouriya 8:08 pm on May 2, 2013
 * #Syria, Latakia, Banyas, young men arrrested (photo)

YallaSouriya 10:23 pm on May 2, 2013
 * #Syria, Picture from #BaydaMassacre today taken from an pro-regime page.

Facebook post by Bristol Justice for Syria on May 2, 10,29 pm
 * At 6 in the morning Assad forces surrounded Al-Bayyda in Banays, they raided homes and arrested more than 200 people including women and children. Women were raped in groups in the streets in front of their families by the regime forces. The 200 arrested were executed in the streets and then burned.
 * ''The international community has been silent and let Assad continue committing genocides and ethnic clearing of people in Homs and other cities to pave the way for Assad to divide Syria!!!!
 * First photo of the massacre to be released by activists

YallaSouriya 2:27 am on May 3, 2013
 * Pro-Assad pages on Facebook admitting to, and celebrating, the massacre in #Bayda by Assad forces.

YallaSouriya 2:21 am on May 3, 2013
 * From a pro-regime FB page. These are “terrorists” (civilians) who were field-executed in Bayda, #Banias today. #Syria