Talk:Ukraine news



Other Talk Pages  Main Ukraine Talk Page... Minsk Protocol.... Ukraine War Casualties... Odessa massacre......  MH17 Crash

It is currently unclear which way things are heading, so it is simpler to try to keep up to news on one clean page, and try to have significant developments updated on main pages. (I am not sure I will keep to this format, but we will see)--Resup (talk) 12:57, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The objective way you write this stuff is absolutely fit for an article page, not a "Talk" page (edit:or more than one, feel free to expand as you see fit, this rolls as it rolls even though it is called ACLOSyria). You could do it chronologically without having to sign it all the time, like I did with the Kobane article. Anyway, thanks for your contributions, Resup, much appreciated. :o) --CE (talk) 18:36, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Archive
Resup, saw the page you created and had the idea to do it monthly on a subpage of this one, to keep it easy to navigate and all under one main page. Here's a little table with links to twelve so-far non-existent pages of the format "Ukraine news/Archive/2015-X". Feel free to use (or do it like you prefer if you don't like the idea).

--CE (talk) 14:16, 15 June 2015 (UTC)


 * This is now the second longest page on the wiki, more than twice as long as the third longest, and the "News" part is two thirds or so of it. So I'll implement this now to make it ready for the future and hope that's ok for you, Resup. --CE (talk) 19:12, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Chronicle
Our account is mostly kept on the main page.

Some Sources
TASS Chronicle-link to daily updates, (Russian),  TASS  - Ukraine (English)
 * easiest to search

Rusvesna-news (Russian),   rusvesna (English). ---  Opolchenie version of events.

TSN (Ukraine) (Ukrainian or Russian). Ukrainian version of events.

--Resup (talk) 14:25, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Documenting Incidents

 * Interactive map of human rights violations, human rights NCO organization 'Just Defense' based in Moscow in partnership with Ombudsman-DPR -Daria Morozova (announcement video).
 * warleaks.su-new web resource, announced on Cassad blog. Aimed at documenting crimes and who is responsible. "Warleaks - independent information project created by the social group of Ukrainian citizens that codified documented information from open sources on the coup d'etat and war crimes in the Ukraine, as well as persons suspected of implementing them. The project operates within the legal framework of the current legislation and its main aim is to collect and systematize information, which can then serve as a basis for administrative and criminal prosecution of persons involved in the commission of crimes during the coup and civil war in the Ukraine. Evaluation terminology presented on the website is subjective and is not legally binding" (google translated)--Resup (talk) 14:47, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Military build-up
6.9.2015 DPR reconnaissance  report:  UAF reinforce wade on the Kalmius river for the upcoming attack on the DPR- DAN news.

26.8 DPR reconnaissance reports arrival of up to 4000 UAF troops,  5 Buk launchers, two tank battalions (60 tanks), and other vehicles  including BTR, BMP, and self-propelled artillery DAN news.--Resup (talk) 22:10, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

October, 2015
Another rumor on Surkov removal from overseeing Ukraine affairs appeared in social media, including Cassad blog. Unclear whether it has any basis. (Probably still true that some resources are switched to Syrian affairs). --Resup (talk) 10:24, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

September, 2015
Strelkov gives a warning that Ukrainian forces are almost done with their deployment, and have a 5-fold advantage in the presumed areas of the main strike. An offensive can come before 20-25 of September so that roads are still passable, and may happen when Putin is abroad (e.g. participating in the UN session in September). If the attack will not materialize in September, the status quo will likely be maintained till winter temperatures set in. (Other senior figures are more skeptical on attack likelihood in the near future-in any case, better be safe than sorry)--Resup (talk) 09:12, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

August, 2015
22.8 On their official social networks page, militants of an Ukrainian battalion "Saint Maria" claimed that DPR opolchenie used some unknown chemical weapon against UAF under the occupied settlement of Artemovsk. "A dirty lie which is posted in the name of volunteer nationalist battalion "Saint Maria" --is false and is a provocation, one of the items of the Kiev plans to manipulate public opinion for the purpose of starting a new war in Donbas", -Basurin, DAN news.--Resup (talk) 16:37, 22 August 2015 (UTC) 20.8 DPR intelligence report claim: Ukraine is preparing a serious provocation/terrorist event to justify restarting hostilities, according to opolchenie fighter with a call name "Giurza" (гюрза =viper). Exact details not known but something like another MH17, or an explosion in Donetsk, something where opolchenie can be blamed and cast in a negative light internationally. (There may be several notable persons with call name Giurza"; in the past there was also a famous Soviet fighter in Afghanistan with this call name- now a farmer in Russia, and a veteran affairs activist) --Resup (talk) 11:55, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Overall impression from OSCE press-conference: relations of OSCE and DPR is sort of OK, yet not fully harmonious: both sides apparently from time to time use heavy weapons in flash points and do not want OSCE to provide, in effect, intelligence to the other side on military moves, and so from time to time OSCE cannot reach certain areas. However, oplochenie wants shelling of civilians to stop, -Ukrainian intentional tactics to cause civilian discontent in DPR held territory. But OSCE reporting is too vague and disengaged to really stop civilian shelling--and civilians have angry words to OSCE for a reason--they do not see effect they rightfully expect. (As for some drunken people, this may be a local peculiarity and their contacts should be able to sort this out when it becomes a problem). Good that they are attempting an open talk (in DPR, this is quite common; less so in present day Ukraine). Security remains a concern. --Resup (talk) 11:55, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

18.8.15 Civilian casualties: 17 killed, 45 wounded in DPR in one week by Ukrainian shelling -Basurin. 17.8.15 Rusvesna: About nine thousand men, missile and artillery troops, began military exercises in the south of Russia, - according to the TV channel "Star" (military news). According to the Ministry of Defense of Russia, the maneuvers started in the Crimea, as well as in Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Armenia. (News release is apparently aimed at those in doubt in case of Ukraine launching a major attack...)--Resup (talk) 12:36, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

13.8.15 Cossack opolchenie member showed to a correspondent Ukrainian positions, starting 500-600 away, with equipment on the other side of a hill. Smoke was seen rising-he explained it was a smoke screen used by UAF to hide equipment movement. He said that "3 -4 Abrams tanks" were spotted. This is not seen on the video. Rusvesna correspondents remark that they respect opolchenie but the report requires additional verification -report and video--Resup (talk) 20:53, 13 August 2015 (UTC) 6.8.15 Direct line with Zakharchenko-live. This is now almost gone, maybe they will re-post it. Noticed Pushilin interview on this channel. He told about Minsk negotiations on under 100-mm weapons withdrawal. After arguing for the whole day should withdrawal be done in 2 days or in 4, they finally, by 10 pm,  compromised to have it in 3 days. Ukrainian delegation placed a call to Kiev; and returned back saying that it must be in 62 days. Even their own delegation (Kuchma) was very surprised; but the talks collapsed, even though Kuchma was suggesting to stay as long as it takes to sign the document. But at this point, Novorossia delegation felt that signing the document with such conditions (introduced as if to mock or sabotage the process) will be pointless. So the talks were postponed till the end of August. Novorossia delegation it to appeal to the Normandy 4, saying that the talks are basically stuck, because of non-constructive (obstructive) position taken by Ukraine. A date for the new talks is about all that could be agreed --Resup (talk) 22:26, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Report on Ukrainian TV TSN following Maria Gaidar receiving Ukrainian passport from Poroshenko in a televised ceremony. About 1000 foreigners are serving volunteers for Ukraine, 'mostly from Russia' (?). They were promised Ukrainian citizenship, but did not receive one, and they are considered criminals in their homeland. A heavy-built volunteer fighter from Poland is interviewed, based near Shirokino. Applied for Ukrainian passport in December, still has not received it. He claims that he has not been paid and that his weapons are from the battlefield. He appears to be well cared of, judged by appearance rusvesna report, with Ukrainian TSN video. -Resup (talk) 05:32, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

5.8.2015 "Officers promised me that their (6) mobilization wave will be the last, and they will end this war by an absolute victory! ", Anastasia Dmitruk,- facebook post. That's a different tone than the one in Russia, where there is a fair amount of lamenting that Minsk is not working, became a sham, etc; not much talk about 'victory', or else immediately clarify that civilian casualties will be at unacceptable level, or as a response if attacked, etc. ("We will never be brothers" ? - that's her poem; "we will all advance, with our battalions, millions strong, and revenge for all our fallen soldiers" -that's from another, even despite a major change in tone, in "masks are off.."). --Resup (talk) 13:23, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

July, 2015
21.7 Right Sector "All-Ukrainian Congress " in Kiev calls for a referendum on no confidence to the government;  full blockade of Donbas (TASS), (rusnext). Demonstration of Right Sector in Kiev (estimated 1000-1300 people) -photo report

19.7 OSCE SMM report, table of violations

Donetsk: The violence in and around “Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”)-controlled Donetsk airport and city directly impacted residential areas during the reporting period and resulted in one civilian death, confirmed by the SMM. At the Joint Centre for Control and Co-ordination (JCCC) observation point at Donetsk central railway station (8km north-west of Donetsk city centre), on 18 July the SMM heard 112 incoming and outgoing explosions consistent with mortar (120mm) and antiaircraft gun fire at locations ranging from 3 to 5km and from the north to the west. [1] The SMM from its base in the city centre then heard more than 50 loud explosions assessed as incoming and outgoing fire in Donetsk city overnight. The security situation calmed during the day on 19 July, when the SMM observed only 24 explosions at and around the airport.

On 19 July the SMM observed the aftermath of shelling overnight and conducted crater analyses in “DPR”-controlled Donetsk city, visiting a total of 12 impact sites. Around 80 Universytetska Street and 69 Shchorsa Street (2.5km north-west of Donetsk city centre), the SMM observed three fresh craters that it concluded had been caused by MBT fragmentation shells (125mm) fired from the north-west. At Hospital No. 23 at 46 Tselinogradska Street (4km west of Donetsk city centre), the SMM observed three fresh craters that it also concluded had been caused by MBT fragmentation shells (125mm) fired from the north-west. In both cases, the SMM was able to conclude the direction of fire to have been from the area of government-controlled Pisky (11km north-west of Donetsk) and Pervomaiske (17km north-west of Donetsk). Moreover, the SMM learned that a security guard at a construction site close to 69 Shchorsa Street had been killed – and the SMM observed damage to a smouldering building there, with a direct hit to the roof, and then visited Kalinina morgue and confirmed the death of the 31-year-old man.

Avdeevka: Meanwhile the SMM on 18 July visited the JCCC office in government-controlled Avdiivka (15km north-north-west of Donetsk), where Ukrainian and Russian Federation representatives described tank and artillery shelling for the second consecutive day (17 and 18 July) from the direction of “DPR”-controlled Spartak (10km north-west of Donetsk). They also reported that three civilians had been killed when a nine-storey apartment building and a house were struck by artillery. The representatives said that a JCCC observation point located in the apartment building, overlooking Donetsk airport, had also been seriously damaged in the shelling and rendered unusable. Because of ongoing insecurity, the SMM was not in a position to confirm these reports. The SMM observed a main battle tank (MBT, T-64) stationary in between apartment buildings in Avdiivka. The SMM also travelled to the settlement of Lastotska (government-controlled, 5km west of Avdiivka and 18km north-west of Donetsk), where it observed three unexploded howitzer rounds (152mm), 18 craters that it assessed to have been caused by howitzer rounds (152mm) and substantial damage to surrounding buildings consistent with artillery shelling.
 * Video raises doubts -conversation appears to be of Ukrainian spotters (or reporters) discussing Ukrainian fire. --Resup (talk) 08:42, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Donetsk shelling investigation (conclusion is that Ukraine is to blame. Interesting detail is that tank fire has maximum elevation of 14 degrees due to tank gun limitations; but firing from a hill can end up at 45 degrees with higher range) --Resup (talk) 16:45, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

18.7 Cassad, "Briefly on important" Various updates on controversial matters, with little clarity at this point. Sea route (via Odessa) is apparently used to deliver 100 Humvees. Perhaps, Republican Guard in DPR will not be fully integrated into peoples militia, but no clarity or solid evidence here. --Resup (talk) 07:32, 20 July 2015 (UTC) niUyMY0dCYo Right sector 'Sviatoslav march' protest speaker, in Kiev. In literary language: current gang is much worse than Yanukovich, a sell-off, - down with the gang. Original language uses words not requiring much translation. --Resup (talk) 22:57, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

"Drones Find Russian Base Inside Ukraine", -4 old T-72 tanks (9, according to report), and an old refueling truck shown; no clue what makes them "Russian" --Resup (talk) 18:47, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

June, 2015
In Lugansk region Ukrainian security forces surrounded the main base of the volunteer battalion of the Ukrainian Interior Ministry, "Tornado" and are ready to take it by storm. This was on his Facebook page the deputy battalion commander Nikolai Tsekur. The Prosecutor's Office of Ukraine accuses the militants of the   battalion in looting, torture, rape and abductions of residents of Lugansk, which they filmed on video and published  on the Web.--Resup (talk) 05:25, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Traditional Anglo-American friendship: Englishman Graham interviews American "Texas" in Donbas (in English)--Resup (talk) 21:27, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Ex-US Senator Bradley's 5 point peace plan ...they are so good when they retire... well, perhaps something plausible from Russian perspective; - but will the bear do that circus dance? nothing to withdraw, and many referendums in Crimea, the first in 1991...
 * But this will not work for Donbas. As Zakharchenko said, there is spilled blood between us, will not want to join Ukraine ... --Resup (talk) 02:01, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

A 'good' part of overall bad news on offensive weapons being authorized by the US Congress is that MANPADS are not on offer and that Azov is not to be supported. The latter is largely symbolic of course; e.g. if anti-tank and other modern Western weapons arrive to Ukraine, everybody will sneak in and get a share--including opolchenie (e.g. opolchenie captured one of the US  anti-battery radars ). Azov battalion (illustrated here) reacted angrily to the news that US House decided not to have them supported; posting a rambling message, telling them back in particular that   Ukraine is much older than USA and had a professional army from the times of (Kievan Rus') princes. Russian FOM said that other battalions in the National Guard are no better than Azov. --Resup (talk) 04:15, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

May,2015
25.5 Analytics piece by Strelkov. Basically expands on the starting line, "It seems that the military-political situation in the Donets Basin in the next few months will not change significantly. The region awaits a continuation of a  war of exhaustion without decisive results, in which the role of the DPR and LPR will remain largely nothing more than "the fate of the hostages." Options described include:(1) attack by UAF/continuation of warfare, largely for the sake of following the momentum/ re-directing dissent; (2) further disintegration and autonomization of Ukraine in the next 1-3 years; (3) full liberation of Ukraine--but Russia is not seen as being on that path (4) "frozen conflict" /competition in economic exhaustion. Presented at the meeting "Ukrainian crisis and global politics", St Petersburg, 15-17.5.15
 * El-Murid warns on 'lost' popular ideals and prevalence of oligarchical and political groups interests (too downbeat, but has a point) --Resup (talk) 15:02, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

25.5 Russia starts big airforce drill, voluntary notified OSCE about this (Russian) ; (AP News). 24.5 Previously unknown to me author/source, Roman Nesterenko,  "Journalist Pravda"  claims that their source in the UAF General Staff HQ says that Mozgovoi assassination is a part of  a broader plan to defeat Novorossia. This plan, code-named "Hammer", includes switching Russia's attention at another conflict (which may be Transdniester or Crimea), and  creating an internal 'civil war  within a civil war' between regular LPR/DPR forces and their 'wild'ones (Cossacks and Mozgovoi-types). In the meantime, heavy weapons are moved East, as well as foreign instructors, who will do intelligence and radio-electronic warfare. HQ Generals were ordered to study the operation "Lightning", in which Croatia regained control of the territory of Serbian Krajina in 1995. "Operation Hammer" is said to be based on this. It is unclear whether this is a real leak, or a result of imagination; but it has some actual match with things on the ground. So legitimate as a warning call. This publication was re-posted by Strelkov-info. --Resup (talk) 00:35, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
 * More on Transdniester potential troubles in the news...Vladimir Mukhin (opinion-Rusvesna), translated --Resup (talk) 21:58, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

23.5 Kiev appears prepared to put the blame on LPR for Mozgovoi murder. Kyiv post, 23.5: "Mozgovoi's disagreements with other leaders in his camp have been well-documented in recent months". Independent, 19.5: "Over the past six months, several of the most unwieldy rebel leaders have been removed – and many assume Mr Mozgovoi is next on the list. It is well known that Mr Mozgovoi is on difficult terms with the Kremlin-annointed leader of the Luhansk republic, Igor Plotnitsky" reprinted by Kiev post.
 * Anton Gerashenko in his facebook post blames "spetznaz GRU", quoting a 'radio intercept' inteerax.co.ua
 * --Resup (talk) 20:43, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Video from the scene. (He is said to be travelling in the van, looking like a repairman van). --Resup (talk) 22:09, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

18 May. Certain Eugenii Erofeev (same name as the name of captured 'Russian soldier' in the news) reports that he is safely home and unaware of his capture (source)-unclear whether this is the same person. Also linked to this report, press conference of people militia of LPR assistant commander, saying that Ukrainian side has crossed separation line and attacked a check point,  two soldiers wounded and captured. He brought their paperwork issued by LPR with him. --Resup (talk) 20:08, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Apparently that is a different Erofeev; another one is shown on Ukrainian video, and his LPR militia paperwork is shown in the news --Resup (talk) 23:02, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

18 May. Anniversary of deportation of Crimean Tatars, mostly to to Uzbekistan, by Stalin on 18 May 1944, on the grounds of widespread collaboration with Nazi Germany occupying force (Crimea was liberated on 12 May 1944). They were not rehabilitated by Khrushev; and started to return to Crimea in 1989 with 'perestroika'. There was no free or dedicated land in Crimea, which lead to wide spread cases of illegal land capture without permits, and tensions/conflicts caused by this. (It is estimated that around 1300 hectares of land is in illegal use). Crimean Tatars were mostly against reintegration of Crimea with Russia in 2014 referendum (fear that land use will start to be enforced is one of the reason). Muslim leaders in Russia (including Kadyrov in Chechnia, --Chechens were deported by Stalin as well,-- and leaders in Tatarstan)--- tried to mend the situation at the time; but without clear-cut success. Around May 2014, Crimean Tatar leader Mustafa Gemilev was prevented from returning to Crimea. In May 2015, he called for formation of Crimean Tatar battalion, based in Ukrainian regions bordering Crimea, in preparation for eventual recapture of Crimea and policing Crimea after that (Source: Rusvesna. 18.05.15)

Historically, Crimean Tatars were allied with Ottoman Empire, raided southern regions of Russia, until Russia defeated Ottomans and captured Crimea in 1783; many Crimean Tatars emigrated to Turkey following that; while some leaders joined Russian nobility. --Resup (talk) 15:54, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

15-17 May. Conference in St Petersburg, "Ukrainian crisis and global politics" -Cassad report. Program with speakers; no clearly emerging coherent picture seems to be reported.

8 May International Forum of international solidarity "Anti-fascism, internationalism and solidarity." Lugansk, May 8, 2015. About 100 delegates, hosted by Mozgovoi. His report on this mostly stresses right for self-determination; also preserving freedoms and opposing lies (Mozgovoi-info). Other reports: (news-front info) , (Borotba), Cassad.
 * Forum participants agreed to create the International Committee of Solidarity with the Donbas "Fascism. Internationalism. Solidarity ", whose main objective will be the integration of political parties, public organizations and movements, independent activists who are ready to support the Donbass in the way of saving the world, opposition to fascism and build a socially just society. --Resup (talk) 17:36, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

March, 2015
11.3 Yurii Bereza "saved" Dnepropetrovsk regional office from 'terrorist attack"

February,2015
20.02 Is there going to be peace now, or is this a lull in fighting? I honestly have no idea. This war does not really make any sense, so than having peace does. Many are skeptical (that includes Strelkov, who keeps saying the same thing of war-is-unavoidable sort; as well as the Right Sector. Many others repeat what they hear on TV and MSM). No direct contact between Kiev and Novorossia, and suppression of any grassroot pro-peace sentiment makes this quite uphill; but not like impossible. --Resup (talk) 18:02, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Poshenko orders urgent measures to counter Russian info-war aggression, performed using foreing and domestic mass media. --Resup (talk) 15:56, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Father of Ukrainian soldier sentenced for 9 year for treason (allegedly helping Russian secret services) asks Zakharchenko to include his son in prisoners exchange. That young kid never in an actual battle yet. But he bought a wristwatch at a Moscow shop on Lubyanka over internet before his arrest (also was drafter and served in Donetsk, in 2012; and was attending Russian orthodox church). According to his father on the video, he was reported by his commander because of the watch purchase. The commander was than promoted to colonel, for uncovering dangerous enemy. (Sounds a bit gross but does not mean it's untrue; there are awful ways to get promoted, East or West). --Resup (talk) 15:56, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Curious Filatov open letter to Poroshenko, republished on Cassad. Basically tells Poroshenko to stop lying (about losses at Debaltsevo scale, in that instance). At the same time, making clear that considers Poroshenko a patriot, and that very unlikely anybody else would want to be in his shows now (Filatov is in Kolomoiskii team, which makes it interesting to hear. --Resup (talk) 16:09, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

15.02 Cassad on upcoming provocations: top photo, Russian artillery to the North East of Debaltsevo. I am not clear what is this supposed to show, but Cassad comments that this is somehow for the USA to accuse Russia of something. Next document, in Ukrainian, with SBY header, is ordering to inform all such mass media which is controlled by official and state structures to cover with great urgency any violations of ceasefire by terrorist LPR and DPR, or Russian regular forces. Than there is something about blocking/turning off worrisome/troublemaking terrorist web sites listed, rusvesna, RT, lifenews, et all --Resup (talk) 19:31, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Tried to check out DNR 24 site; --noted there Philip Ekoziants next end of the world prophecy, "The end of the World is speaking Ukrainian, but it is not his native tongue"  (russ. "Конец Света говорит сегодня по-украински...")  Recording is said to be 0.05 AM on February 10, an insider contacted him to tell that in 48 hours there will be some sort of calamity seen from Kharkov. Well we know already nothing happened in Khrarkov. But potentially serious provocation did happen in Kramatorsk. Ekoziants is a guy who appear to be in some sort of religious exalted state recording his messages, but sometimes he got things right, or may be indeed contacted by insiders from either side. So I do not believe that end-of-the-world-now-speaking-Hebrew-stuff, but not ignoring the existence of such messages altogether. --Resup (talk) 19:31, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

15.02 Yarosh: battalions of the Right Sector do not comply with the Minsk agreements. "Two of my battalion, well armed and equipped, continue to advance under Debaltseve and have serious military results, "- he wrote in a statement posted on the website the National Guard of Ukraine. -TASS --Resup (talk) 06:39, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yarosh publication on Ukrainian National Guard web site appeared shortly after midnight, with some strange peculiarities with dates and re-editing noted; eventually it  disappeared after causing media attention. --Resup (talk) 07:36, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

12.02 But DPR, LPR are said to refuse to sign the document coming from Normandy group (TASS)--so (if this stays as it is), where does it take things now ? Also Poroshenko is quoted saying that some conditions required by Russia are not acceptable. Sources say that final document is 80% agreed. Oh well --Resup (talk) 08:05, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Normandy group finished work after 14 hours of negotiations. While the contact group (with Zakharchenko and Plotniskii now present) started its work at another location in Minsk. Surkov moved there as well. Documents being prepared include ceasefire and beginning of withdrawal of heavy weapons in 2 days    TASS quoting Reuters, German DPA. --Resup (talk) 07:03, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

After 12 hours of negotiations, according to French delegation it is hoped that documents will be signed. Prior to that, Ukrainian sources say border control is remaining sticking point, with locals doing that proposed. Separation may be easier, e.g. broader  separation than agreed initially. RT gives a live stream. --Resup (talk) 05:07, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

11.02 This morning, a bus is hit by UAF shelling in Donetsk, 4  said to be killed, 9 wounded  (TASS), (rusvesna, videos).  --Resup (talk) 08:07, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Looks like somebody getting desperate to try to stop progress in Minsk-and not opolchenie. No reason to stop, just agree to investigate (and stop nonsensical propaganda if possible, it's getting revolting) . --But some genuine disagreement on details may still remain; contact group will try another time in the morning, and depending on results, leaders may go to Minsk later in the day--Resup (talk) 08:45, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Hollande and Merkel decided to go to Minsk TASS (quoting French sources) --Resup (talk) 08:48, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

10.02 Contact group meting ended, time of another meeting is not known. Pushilin said that "it is too early" to start a ceasefire from tomorrow, "we passed our offers to the Contact Group, and we will wait for their response" RIA Novosti--Resup (talk) 22:11, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Poroshenko says that ATO headquarters in Kramatorsk were shelled with MLRS (Uragan or Smerch)  (rusvesna report, videos). Initial Ukrainian reports tell about airport attacked from the air. First video: presenter says it is 12.40 pm on 10 February (later says 1 pm); that there was a tank fire before camera was turned on; that he describes what we see and hear (he thinks it is a fight at the airport, or strong shelling at the airport). Cassad tells that witnesses talked about a fight at the airport. Apparently there were two MLRS salvos, one hit airport, another residential area. 15 killed reported in Ukrainian sources Eastern part of the city hit, Дворцовая,  Шкадинова, street, and  Kramatorsk  Дом связи ('telecom house")
 * DPR denied (rusvesna -quoting Ukrainian source) that they shelled Kramatorsk. Un-exploded missiles, steep angles (suggesting close distance) noted, regarding residential visuals.
 * A missile landed 30 m from OSCE SMM mission, did not explode. Time was 12:33. RIA Novosti-photos. OSCE report says Smerch (or Tornado) fired from SSE, killed 7 civilians, wounded 26 including 5 children. Street locations provided --Resup (talk) 19:28, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * DPR says at present consider this to be provocation by UAF; commission needs to look at all facts. Video from the airport: cluster munitions, 32 UAF wounded, but does not appear to be a very severe hit/causalities. Smerch with cluster warhead range of 70 km, opolchenie at Gorlovka will be some 75 km away, a bit over Smerch range. If it can get there at all, it has to be fired close to 45 degrees, while on most photos it is maybe 70-80 degrees. Opochenie said to capture some Uragans, but I do not remember news that they have or use Smerch--Resup (talk) 23:40, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Poro went to Kramatorsk, made propaganda speech how Russians are killing civilians in totally peaceful city with cluster munitions, brought Bernard Levy with him for more effect. --Resup (talk) 08:01, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Anonymous source claimed to RIA novosti that OSCE, Germany, France insist that Russia take a control function over a demilitarized area in Donbas (rusvesna quoting RIA novosti) (not confirmed by official sources) --Resup (talk) 16:48, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Ukraine attacks near Mariupol, Telmanovo severely shelled by Ukraine, Turchinov said to be there to provide leadership. According to opolchenie, Azov battalion entered neutral villages, installed and photographed near Ukrainian flags; attempts to attack opolchenie check points were repelled (rusvesna). Ukrainian sources,

08.02 TASS referring to le Figaro: negotiations are stalled not by fundamental issues such as sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, but by items such as composition of peacekeeping force. Kiev is categorically opposed to participation of Russian military in such monitoring, or to military from (Russian -lead) Collective Security Treaty Organization. While OSCE monitors were criticized by Donbas opolchenie. Another item of serious disagreements is defining Donbas border line, since opolchenie advanced West since last September.

Could not quicly locate this in le Figaro but have this in place: "Mais outre l'aspect pratique d'un sommet quadripartite, l' «esprit de Normandie» symbolise aussi la volonté d'une diplomatie active et réaliste, ou le duo franco-allemand tente de jouer les médiateurs entre Kiev et le Kremlin, là où les Etats-Unis sont dans la menace". le Figaro. --Resup (talk) 23:56, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

07.02 Western Nations Split on Arming Kiev

President at the meeting with Ukrainian diaspora in Munich: Ukraine will fight and win Hollande broadcast on RT --Resup (talk) 18:07, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

02.02. Opolchenie update, TASS update.

2015 Nikishino taken by NAF

Ukrainian Tochka U on the ground--Resup (talk) 12:57, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Mobilization planned by Novorossia in some 10 days, up to 100 thousand may be called for duty (Cassad) --Resup (talk) 12:57, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Opolchenie
Opolchenie means armed people's militia; most famous historically was first and second opolchenie of 1611-1612, the second one, under drove Polish-Lithuanian invaders from Moscow.

In the conflict in Donbas, opolchenie are volunteers fighting on the pro-Russian / Novorossia /'rebel' side. Early opolchenie was mostly driven by idealism, dream of fairness, better life, or past historical achievements; an income could be a factor as well, but not the most important one. That largely idealistic wave was gradually replaced by a more professional and regular militia (referred to as Corps), with a rigid vertical chain of command structure. Some of the initial motivation, and human relations which were felt as important, were lost, to some degree, in the process.

On individual level, there were several highly respected commanders, showing courage, fairness, vision, and independent judgement (Strelkov, Khmuryi, Bezler, Batman, Mozgovoi, Dremov, ...). Some from that first wave were driven away; some were assassinated.

New popular leaders may emerge, in time of need especially; or it will stay more like a regular state, where perhaps folksy heroes are not really needed... --Resup (talk) 08:01, 13 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Dremov was born in Stakhanov in 1976 (called Kadievka than). Served in Ukrainian Army, junior sergeant; participated in the second Chechnya campaign Prior to the conflict in the east of Ukraine worked as a bricklayer. Became a respected Cossack commander in LPR, and accepted LPR chain of command while trying to preserve some of Cossack and popular traditions. Killed on Dec 12, 2015. It is believed that a bomb was planted in his car  (photos-Graham Phillips) given to him as a present (or a magnetic device planted under).  LPR police started an investigation, initially blamed Ukrainian sabotage /terrorism group. Another Cossack ataman Kozitsyn, forced into Russia, claimed that he warned Dremov on assassination attempt some 5 days prior.  --Resup (talk) 13:28, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Mozgovoi (separate page)
 * Batman (separate page)


 * Strangely, shortly before Dremov murder, SBU Alpha killed a purported Ukrainian terrorist group "Shadows"    figure  Oleg Muzhchil (aka Sergey Amirov) (Олег Мужчиль aka Сергей Амиров), initially presenting him as a Russian 'terrorist'.  He was apparently a radical nationalist, more radical than Yarosh, a Buddhist and a militant (or a supporter of violent actions). "Shadows" (probably a media fake) claimed responsibility for Mozgovoi murder shortly after it happened (as well as for wounding Zakharchenko and other actions)  --Resup (talk) 14:49, 14 December 2015 (UTC)


 * This blog says that "Prizrak" battalion (formerly lead by Mozgovoi) continues to perform its duties. Earlier, it was reported that there are plans to split and reduce the battalion. --Resup (talk) 00:50, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

International Opolchenie

 * Graham Phillips, British.- Not in opolchenie, but there for a long time, and well known from his many reports from Novorossia--Resup (talk) 12:25, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * "Texas", an American- His interviews are cited elsewhere on this talk page and the main Ukraine news page.
 * Inna Levitan, Israeli (from her childhood years on), Jewish. Interview and video in Russian, and in Hebrew-translated. She is in the Ghost brigade founded by Mozgovoi. She cites anti-fascism as unifying idea for diverse opolchenie members. She also says that she sees it as an opportunity to build a new fairer state, in some aspects resembling the Soviet Union.  She writes poetry and prose, mostly in Russian, some in Hebrew. --Resup (talk) 12:11, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Ghost brigade includes other international members (from Spain, Italy, and Serbia)

Odessa News
timer-odessa.net-opinion. At a press conference, Saakashvilli was accused in populism, not understanding local needs --Resup (talk) 16:29, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Maria and Yegor Gaidar
Maria's father Yegor Gaidar was a Prime Minister of Russia for about 6 months in 1992, right after collapse of the Soviet Union. He was the one who introduced shock therapy based on the US, --and Pinochet in Chile, ---economic methods.

Russian state quickly stopped controlling prices, quickly made state property private, and borrowed money from the West. It was hoped that this will by magic make Russia like any other country in the West, quickly. But in the hindsight, it delivered a shock (prices skyrocketed, savings became worthless) with little therapy.

There is no reason at all to think he was corrupt or did some ills intentionally. But under his policies, great many people ended up very poor, and a few became very rich (but not himself). In the end, many remembered the shock, and could not see any therapy; making him unpopular. He did not have any major political role after his resignation.

Now his daughter got a small job in the government on the other side of the Ukrainian conflict in Odessa--making some on this side quite upset. -- All that, by itself, is rather inconsequential, in the global scheme of things.--Resup (talk) 19:31, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Saakashvilli
Saakashvilli interview on 1TV Odessa, 30.7.15 Fired up to go with reforms, along the lines of what he did in Georgia, anti-corruption, transparency et all. Customs office and the port seem to be main priority, likely for strategic reasons really; although he avoids talking much on that. Seems to convert serious matters into mostly blabbing. He was asked about May 2 events, and had a good take on that, saying it is big tragedy on personal level, and (softly) that those people should not be further intimidated. But it was of a nice gesture sort, not something strongly and deeply felt, or incredibly important--he switched to some blabbing very quickly. Values highly educational level, and economic opportunities in the region; plans to clear ground on legal and anti-corruption fronts in the first couple of years, with major projects on 10 years time scale. All sort of American in style (not Odessian way, but not like hugely incompatible either). Where that all leads, remains to be seen-it's deeds that count.--Resup (talk) 21:47, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Maps
map --nearby Debaltsevo, 02.02.2015 (Cassad)

Gas prices
2014 "Winter package" provides that the price of Russian gas is determined by a formula laid down in the contract "Naftogaz" and "Gazprom" in 2009, and dependent on world prices for petroleum products at a discount of $ 100 per thousand cubic meters. As a result, prices were $ 378 and $ 329 per thousand cubic meters in the fourth quarter 2014 and first quarter of 2015, respectively. This document is also prescribed in the contract suspended in 2009 the principle of "take or pay", but a commitment of Ukraine to make an advance payment for future gas supplies.

"Winter package" ended March 31, 2015, but April 1, Russia has extended for three months (until 30 June) a discount of $ 100 per thousand cubic meters (this discount has been provided "Gazprom" to "winter package"). Thus, under the terms of the additional agreement, gas price was $ 248 per 1,000 cubic meters.

Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev in late June said that Russia is ready to sell in the third quarter of the gas at a discount of about $ 40 per thousand cubic meters, so that the final price remained at the level of the second quarter ($ 247.18 for per thousand cubic meters). "We can not provide a discount in the same volume," - said Medvedev, noting that earlier by the Ukrainian side received a petition requesting to extend the discounts with the "difficulties of the economic situation" (quoted by Interfax). The Russian prime minister said that the new price for Ukraine will be "comparable to the level of prices for neighboring countries" and will remain "competitive and fair."

Kiev did not agree with the terms of the third quarter (with a price of $ 247 per thousand cubic meters) and the discount period (three months instead of three quarters) and from July 1, suspended the purchase of Russian gas. As stated by the Ukrainian side, one of the important conditions for the resumption of supply will be the "coordination of positions on controversial items at least until the end of the first quarter of 2016" (source)

On gas transit fee; and coal-Kat Kan on Saker --Resup (talk) 21:19, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Opinions

 * Korban (Kolomoiskii ex-administration man) interview. On Poroshenko: quoting Dostoevsky-google translate: "Power is given only to those who dare to bend over and take it." 'Obviously, Poroshenko leaned over and took power'. More on Poroshenko: despite having diplomatic skills/experience, have difficulty listening or learning from others' mistakes--insisting on making his own. Gaining power, became "bronzed" (resembling a bronze monument)--detached, paying a lot of attention to formal ceremonies,  difficult to contact on urgent business. Still the most powerful and rich person in top echelons. Doubts that he will be reelected. estimates that current political union will last till Spring 2016. Korban advocates hiring private military instead of current ineffective military machine; claims that he advised against  full scale heavy armor war in Summer 2014, using diplomacy and police action instead--Resup (talk) 13:26, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * "Nazis Triumph Over Communists in Ukraine"- Leonid Bershidsky, bloombergview.com, 19.05.2015 --Resup (talk) 12:11, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Markov-Rusvesna (+Cassad follow-up) Neo Nazi gangs chaos becomes a thing from the past, Ukraine quickly becomes a stronger police state, total propaganda control, centralized military command.... --Resup (talk) 14:32, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Curious clash of attitudes Cassad vs Sharii. Sharii (a Kievan): "Kiev died", not having a stronger reaction to Buzina murder in particular. Was good, turned bad. Cassad (from Sevastopol): Ukraine is not the same as  Ukrainian Republic of the USSR; bad apple-anti-Russian project, created by chaos (Provisional Government of 1917, and collapse of the USSR in 1991).
 * Arkady Molev traveler's account; --lives in Israel. Causing mayhem in commentary part on Fort Russ. Russian version commentary is divided, staying civil.  --Resup (talk) 13:25, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
 * "Not a war, but 'match-fixing'", Tatiana Montan, a lawyer (Ukraine). Briefly, oligarchs, instead of sorting their issues themselves, used propaganda and 'labels' (like nazi/bandera) to turn common Ukrainians to fight with each other, pocketing Western funding and war profits, but also destroying the country. Mobilization and use of army against people is illegal, -there is no declared war. (In the past, she visited Mozgovoi to participate in video conference with Ukrainian military; brought back a POW on her way back). Also, a video, along similar lines. --Resup (talk) 04:34, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * 'Lithuanian MP suggested imposing peace by bombing Kiev', re-titled and translated at Fort Russ.--Resup (talk) 16:15, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Stratfor predicts new fighting -and possibly in summer - as political issues are unresolved and sides, as well as Russia and the West in general, disagree in their vision of post-Soviet  states future   strelkov-info (Russian) (English-registration required)--Resup (talk) 10:33, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * 'Why a war is unavoidable-an opinion of DPR citizen, Andrei Volkov, 8.8.15 rusvesna. For Ukrainian bureaucracy ' the war is an instrument for profits'; 'ATO is an ideal cover for 'deriban' (shadowy/illicit gesheft/business ).  Sluggish warfare like this ... is profitable for bureaucrats, politicians, military  ... . 'Impracticable Minsk Agreement tired both sides' ... Civil wars do not end by ceasefire ... --Resup (talk) 11:40, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Robert Parry, 'The Riddle of Obama’s Foreign Policy' Consortium News, 21.8.15. Makes some valid observations on Ukraine and Syria policies, criticizes for 'above the crowd' attitude preventing to make the truth fully public. --Resup (talk) 16:12, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Expanding on Shroud of secrecy/selective release cooment: This reminds a saying atributed to a bolshevik leader Lazar Moiseevich Kaganovich: "...I can' write, and there is no point... all people are divided into three groups: commoners, who will never learn the truth, and leaders, who know the truth, but it is so awful and remote from [common] reality, that their main concern is that nobody except themselves can find that out. And there are small number of people, who try to learn the truth, but they will never have complete proofs. The leaders are careful to destroy all evidence of their criminal actions. I have long, numerous fights in my life. You cannot talk about what is happening, or will happen. Events do not occur before they do. You have to wait. Nothing can be done about it". --Resup (talk) 17:50, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * (In fact, since authenticity of this biography ('Wolf of the Kremlin', by Stuart Kahan) is disputed,  we may not even be able to figure out whether Kaganovich said it or not...)--Resup (talk) 20:22, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Novorossia future?
"...what was initially envisioned was Novorossia as a base for social-economic experimentation, a creative lab, where new ideas of living arrangements are developed, and where every citizen has an opportunity for self-realization. At present, this is not there, it all remains the same, and so we can say that we have been fighting for an oligarchical system. But this is what we have at present"
 * Gennady Dubovoi, a military correspondent, was in Motorolla unit.

"..very few volunteers would want to go to Syria... I am not going there to fight, as ultimately that is not my war..." --Resup (talk) 16:43, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Stories
A worrisome story about DPR Cossack opolchenie commander Kluni, rebroadcasted on Cassad. A local, ex-programmer, who started with the first opolchenie wave and was a respected commander, being in all the hot spots; patriotic, idealistic. Don't know him, but seems to be a good person. Now under arrest; details not really explained (may have to do with the transition to regular military going of-tack sometimes), but some overall problems highlighted. DPR ministry of interior, according to the author, quite frustrated dealing with it, consists of many ex-SBU guys, and so not that different from Ukraine. No attorneys or separation of power, etc, so sorting things out is difficult. The author makes an appeal and starts an online petition, with about 200 signatures recently. Kluni is also on the wanted list by Ukrainian prosecutors in Mariupol (despite the supposed amnesty by Minsk protocol, never made formal in law, I gather). The author tells that prosecutors in Mariupol are freely travelling to Donetsk for their work... Highlighting that a lot is yet to be done over there... --Resup (talk) 14:01, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Sanctions
Sanctions were introduced by EU and by Canada. EU sanctions include many mainstream figures in LPR and DPR, including Motorola and Givi. Rationale for doing this (and--again!--- right after a step forward in Minsk) is lost on me.
 * Justice. This is not justified at all. For example Motorola and Givi were storming airport which by Minsk is going to DPR anyway. Liberating airport helped reduce civilian casualties in Donetsk to Ukrainian army shelling. So the justification of sanctioning them now is ---what? (Singer Kobzon on Russia's side--what did he do? Sang a song in Donetsk--and so ?. Something like that often happens; e.g.  did not Jane Fonda go to Vietnam?)
 * Effect in the East. On practical side, close to none. Well, may be Kobzon will not get cancer treatment in Europe, but this is about it. To be sure, combined effect of economy (oil prices, exchange rates) and sanctions of course are felt and causing  hardship, but this latest addition does not change anything here. On political side, it will increase anti-Western sentiment,  will give advantage to pro-Putin players, and will make an idea of cooperation with the West rather unpopular. Gives easy ammunition against pro-Western figures, by listing them in the 5 column, with broad popular support for doing that. Whatever economic effect of sanctions is likely to be shifted on those least deserving it.
 * Effect in the West. No idea. An alternative of actually doing something meaningful, and getting reelected--maintaining an appearance of orderly development in order to preserve positions of power and wealth? With human rights added on top for decoration? An alternative of sending weapons? (But this is silly, -why to do a cover up? Weapons may come from somewhere anyway as this is not tightly related to economic sanctions)
 * East-West relations. Very harmful; cannot really expect trust and cooperation and impose sanctions at the same time; no matter what diplomats say, it just does not work like that. There are obviously major unsolved issues elsewhere; and this does not help cooperation in addressing them at all. --Resup (talk) 14:53, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Parties

 * Galicia Party Galician separatists want to join Europe without the rest of Ukraine-translated at Fort Russ
 * Ukrop. Korban and co people registered a new party UKROP, Ukrainian Organization of Patriots (also the Russian word for dill; and an abbreviation for Ukrainian Oplot (stronghold, defense), giving rise to a commonly used 'label' for Ukrainian military)  --Resup (talk) 06:18, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Samopomosh: alliance with Kolomoiskii?-by Tatiana Chornovol
 * Udar--Nalivaichenko is a member since 2012, Udar did not support his removal from SBU post

Claims


Bloomberg carried SBU report alleging Russian troop involvement, including at generals level. Seems to be typical SBU 'craftsmanship'. As an illustration, we have to take their word that Oleg Tsekov, a commander of 200 Russian MRB, is the same person as Oleg Turnov, a commander of 2 LPR people's militia brigade, all based on--don't know what, some murky photo from somewhere. Trying to look this up came with claims made around a parade in Luhansk on 31 October 2014, shortly after a Russian aid convoy arrived to Luhansk (said to be on 31 October as well). One guy marching on the parade, apparently a commander of the 2 LPR brigade (the name of this person is than Oleg Turnov) have some resemblance to some other photo of unknown provenance said to be Tsekov. There is a resemblance,  but I am not sure it is the same person --or actually who is shown  on the other photograph. Or what are circumstances of 200 MRB commander Tsekov--he could retire, or leave RAF, or be there in a noncombat role (jccc at all), or whatever else the case may be. Also what we see is a parade shortly after aid arrived, so how is this all is even significant (Chinese and Mongolian troops paraded on the Red Square this May, but are yet to officially invade Russia...). Volnovakha bus incident, Mariupol Market Shelling, MH17 crash are discussed by us elsewhere; this report is a caricature account of those events. Numerous fake/staged arrests by SBU, and arrests or intimidation of political opponents, are well known.

Arrest of two Russian citizens, with a lot of media coverage, discussed earlier in Ukraine news section. Subsequent interviews with Russian experts, in particular Anatolii Ermolin, an opposition, anti-war figure formerly of Spetnaz FSB Vympel, TVRain interview, indicates that real GRU are well trained what to do in case of arrest under multiple scenarios. There were instances when GRU was arrested (in Emirates, related to Chechen matters)--and very little media-worthy info was ever coming in those instances; they also have their paperwork in good order. While in the case of those two arrested in Ukraine, some unbelievable mess, including crying on camera, a wife messily involved--whoever they are, they are not among GRU-pedigree professionals. It's hard to make much else out of behavior of those guys who found themselves in very pressing circumstances. They were there not in combat roles, during ceasefire, with not much point for them to be there at all. So, strange matter, but not much mileage to gain here. --Resup (talk) 02:09, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Ukraine drags Russia to International Court of Justice for loss of human life and economic potential, The Times of India, July 3, 2015. (Really severe instance of 'it takes a thief to catch a thief'-a version if Russian 'a hat burns on thief's head' ... and similar to 'On the head of the thief burns his hat' (Hebrew), afn ganef brent dos hitl (Yiddish)  --Resup (talk) 17:48, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Fakes

 * (A version of this story appeared on Russian mainstream TV, and on social media (e.g.here)  in several languages): Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt: Since August this is the highest concentration of Russian air defense systems in eastern Ukraine. (C серпня це найвища концентрація російських систем ППО на сході України-ukr). Repeated in Ukrainian press.  Buk M2 photograph  from MAKS exhibition in Moscow, 2013 used (India times report, August 31, 2013). This AP image was also used after MH17 crash, 17 July 2014. Another publication 18 July 2014. --Resup (talk) 14:52, 26 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Caught in the act: German state channel accused of faking Russian soldiers in Ukraine RT (Eng), Dec 24, 2015 --Resup (talk) 09:36, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

History of Ukraine
Oles' Buzina, Russian with English captions (hit cc to see captions)--very engaging in the original; maybe harder with captions.
 * 00:06 - How and when names Little Russia and New Russia appeared?
 * 26:21 - How the modern Ukraine was created?
 * 47:44 - Civil wars in Ukraine
 * 56:52 - Donetsk-Krivoy Rog republic
 * --Resup (talk) 13:45, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * As a reference to terminology, Vladimir Dal' -disappeared definition of khokhol (ХОХОЛ--second entry). (Quite curious examples of use did he put in there). Initially khokol may be a reference to Cossack (Mohawk-like) hairpiece, illustrated  e.g. here, which some link with an instrument of salvation. Currently not used, as it is considered offensive.
 * A curious Dutch map of 1641, titled 'Russia, commonly known as Moscovia'. -There is a battle of maps with the other side also presenting something  --Resup (talk) 04:05, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Ukraine
"The group "Okean Elzy" (Ocean of Elza) presented video clip "Not Your War", which was attended by a group of fans. The main idea of the video is a random selection between dark and light side, so visual range is divided into white and black. According to Vakarchuk, the theme song is not easy to confess even to himself. After all, Ukrainian, for centuries constantly imposed from outside someone's thoughts, actions and even war. Now is the time to take responsibility and initiative" (article). --Resup (talk) 18:02, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * You're in the dawn; sun and smoke.
 * Few people know what will happen with them.
 * What will happen tomorrow is on youngs' minds.
 * Someone hope and someone fear.
 * Kalina tree branches are wilted.
 * Mom, whom we prayed?
 * How many else of your children will it take,
 * of your children, - not your war


 * Became parents, sons, daughters
 * All saw colorful dreams
 * And are kissing the hand of falsehood.      (брехня (ukr) "dog bark" (russ/ukr) lie, nonsense, bullshit (engl.)
 * For quiet nights gave up the days.


 * (followed by variations of the theme)


 * Auto-translate said "not your wine." But I found this in English, from a French fan's blog. The name means ocean of feelings/emotion? Cool. Powerful song. Even this is not very specific which war they refer to, but presumably the one in Ukraine now. They say the one that is "yours" is the internal one to ... change things, I guess. Blog says "The main idea of the video is to represent the wait-and-see approach of people that do not take initiatives on their own... acting as flipping again and again a coin with "lucky-not lucky" sides. At the end of the video, the coin disappears: the conclusion is that the community has always a chance to make things change: everything is in its own hands!" Actually the coin doesn't disappear that I saw, but the message is probably that anyway. (?) --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:51, 28 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Also, this will get more interesting when there's a battle of bands, some neo-Fascist band countering this. Will be ugly and they'll lose. --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:51, 28 April 2015 (UTC)


 * This band was headlining an Azov Battalion benefit concert last autumn. Pretty sure that's the best they can come up with... (FTR, as it happens I listened to Leningrad Cowboys & the Alexandrov Red Army Ensemble performing "Sweet Home Alabama" when clicking on this "recent change" ;o)) --CE (talk) 09:31, 28 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Songs space in Ukraine, Russia is as complicated as events themselves; there would be a song for everything; those are partial selections giving some idea. Ocean Elzy appears to be something unseen so far (and giving some hope, I'd say ...) --Resup (talk) 07:10, 29 April 2015 (UTC)