Talk:US airstrike on ISIS Hunters, February 7, 2018

Russian contractors killed in US-led coalition strike

 * ''Moved from Talk:Syria news/Current

According to Strelkov source, Wagner group sustained heavy losses in the US-led coalition strike on Feb. 7. He says (on social media) that Wagner's 5th assault detachment, armored group and artillery unit were destroyed in the vicinity of the village of Khsham(Хишам, Rus.), near Deir ez-Zor and Al Isba oil plant (google/satellite, two or more sites, on the road from Khsham to Al Isba) (No further definite factual details provided)--Resup (talk) 11:05, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

In his new post, .''..at the moment it is clear that there are hundreds of dead and wounded. A few hundred''. (Some concrete initial numbers are provided but those do not appear definite, and the very latest number, exceeding the reported number of people in the convoy, appears exaggerated--unless it was not a bigger under-reported event. This latest number is 'from Syria', but can be a 'disinformation'). --Resup (talk) 20:02, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Unconfirmed details posted by a user, said to be audio and transcript of Wagner fighters discussing the event (column attacked on march, their artillery suppressed by drones, artillery strike followed by helicopters strike (and Lockheed AC-130 Spectre, in another unconfirmed report). They did not have anti-aircraft weaponry, not even MANPADS; number of killed said to be around two hundred, all from the 5th detachment and some others too. Those details are unverified, but pretty consistent among several such sources (similar account of events also seen elsewhere).  --Resup (talk) 20:55, 10 February 2018 (UTC) The user, as well as Cassad, attribute the story and audios to telegram channel of war correspondent Semen Pegov. Cassad also links "Funeral of 14 Syrians killed by US AF in Deir Ezzor" --Resup (talk) 21:37, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Easy audio playback version is on this pro-Ukrainian youtube. Fox News report, with coalition report on the attack and air power involved, here (probably stock footage and talk)--Resup (talk) 05:19, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Rusnext version, Много погибших: опубликована информация о массированном ударе США и курдов по позициям российских ЧВК, 10 February, 2018 (in addition to what's said elsewhere reports some numbers of Syrian casualties, said to be 30 confirmed so far, with names and photos; those details are not provided however) --Resup (talk) 08:49, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

In a rare mentioning in established media, business oriented "Vzgliad" reports a similar account based on own sources, but puts the number of killed at 15-25, and some 50 wounded --Resup (talk) 22:25, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Vzgliad now published Semen Pegov account (large losses).

WaPO version, 'In Syria, Russian bad faith turns fatal', by David Ignatus, Washington Post, 9 February, 2018

Implications of those events are not clear. Major Russian media does not report this, so Russia is not after an escalation. But with those details now known and broadly discussed, authorities may have to do something about it (possibly talking it down, not escalating, by capability and interests combined. But remains to be seen. --Resup (talk) 23:02, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

For some background, see here.


 * PMC Wagner was originally employed in Syria around 2013 to guard oil and gas installations - except they would first have to free the installations from al-Nusra / ISIS. Moon of Alabama posted this two days ago:
 * ''Other sources say that there have been talks between Wagner and locals Arabs guarding the currently unproductive "Conoco" oil and gas field operation near the town of Khisham.
 * -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:08, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

I predict 200 Americans will die in some mysterious accident. Maybe Pakistani aid defenses will shoot down a plane carrying U.S. troops or contractors to Afghanistan. Maybe an Iranian oil tanker will hit and sink a U.S. Navy ship. PMC Wagner will pay a $10 million reward to whoever caused the accident. The Russian Federation will deny all knowledge or responsibility. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 11:28, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

It's not actually clear why it happened, as there are deconflicting mechanisms, and said to be actual contacts and Western warnings prior to all this. It may be one of 3 things: (1) lack of communication (or care) between Russian MoD and PMC, inadequate preparation of PMC, etc (2) intentional, on the US-led coalition side, some sort of entrapment to continue the well-known Western line, similarly to what can be read on MoA (3) intentional, on the Russian side, similar to destruction of a Russian tank column in Groznyi which triggered an outrage in (generally, liberal) Russian government and public opinion and led to the full scale first Russian-Chechen war, although prior to that Chechen demands were quite moderate; similar theoires can be read in the present day context e.g. on kasparov.ru  and similar pro-Western Russian opposition resources. Here, possibly just trying to get control of oil resources, despite current US-Kurdish control and a deconfliction agreement in the Euphrates valley (mentioned in Tillerson speech at Hoover), not seeking a wider conflict, if possible. --Resup (talk) 13:17, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Confirmation that at least some Russian contractors died from RIA via Fort Russ: US airstrike in Syria kills former defender of Donbass + some more names here. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:35, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Some deaths confirmed on social media

 * Ananiev Kirill, former DPR opolchenie, one of the leaders of a leftist unregistered party 'Another Russia', a 'natsbol' (NBP)(photo).
 * Ladygin Aleksey ('Khmuryi'), from Ryazan', 31 May 1991 DOB (photo)
 * Loginov Vladimir Nikolaevich, a Cossack centurion, from a Cossack settlement "Pregolsky" (photos 1, 2).
 * Igor Kosoturov, Stanislav Matveev. Local Duma deputy of the Asbest city district (Sverdlovsk region) Natalia Krylova confirmed the reports of the death of Syria in the Deir-ez-Zor area of two residents of Asbest city . "Yes, I confirm, (died) on February 7)," she told TASS.

--Resup (talk) 21:20, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Propaganda/Spin
There is of course a nonzero probability that a successful fake was planted onto Strelkov, but chances of that are rather low (there would be Donbass veterans and they would  know each other for a while, with a code of proper conduct, etc). It's also possible that numbers are inaccurate, like 'fog of war' thing, one detachment staying in the wait on the outskirts was dispersed by airstrike but the actual fate of those people is not exactly known. From Khrustalik interview, 11 people in BDRM vehicle were killed by the very first strike, and then some tried to disperse (including the man he interviewed), unclear how successfully.

However, there is also a very clear attempt to suppress or downplay this, (+ going after the messenger sort). Something like Southfront take on February 14, 2018, if they have an idea of realities involved here--and I assume that they do--belongs mostly to spin/propaganda, IMHO. --Resup (talk) 22:13, 14 February 2018 (UTC)