Talk:Haswiyeh Massacre

SOHR and LCC Reports
I just checked both sites, and nothing yet. Will check back if no one else does first. SOHR LCC --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:08, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

other reports n stuff
This is a 26 min long video with some masked guy in black talking. "Homs, a survivor of the massacre gravel recounts the details of what he saw of the massacre". Next to useless, but it confirms that the name of the spot translates to "gravel". Located here on wikimapia. See the river Neely talks about, military installations to the west. This comes from a german article which also links to this breakingnews,sy headline from Wednesday: "Homs: 50 insurgents were arrested in a raid by the Syrian Army on several dens in al-Haswia". The video linked above was found by Urs who also found some more embedded here. A rather detailed "official SOHR story" article here on Lebanese Daily Star. --CE (talk) 15:46, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Good finds. You know I love locations, and didn't have it yet. That's really in Homs,visually. I thought it'd be a small town a couple miles north. The article seems to be a slight re-mix of the other Mroue/AP article around. Nothing to add myself today. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:05, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah I was fruitlessly searching for myself earlier but only the video description made it clear to me that I was digging in the right area. Only skimmed the last mentioned article - these sources are so obviously corrupt by now that it's difficult to waste any time on them. Intending to add the ITV report but maybe I won't get to do it before someone else decides to (and you know by now how lazy I am, and I did some stuff today) :oD --CE (talk) 23:18, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Later. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:45, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Enduring America collects some stuff. Miller spoke to Neely, adds "According to Neely, the river divides the village, half of which the rebels control and the other half of which the military controls. The rebels use the orchards and nearby homes to attack the Intelligence Headquarters to the east." ... "ely maintains that there is no hard evidence as to who is really responsible - and we agree." Fair enough, for now, AFAIK. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:45, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

EA says BBC's Lyse Doucet visited. See article here, a sample tweet here From the article:
 * Soldiers who escorted the team to the area said hundreds of men from a militant Islamist rebel group, the al-Nusra Front, committed the killings.
 * One woman told the BBC the same. But out of earshot of the official Syrian minders, another woman said the army was present at the time and that some soldiers even apologised for the murders, saying others had acted without orders.

They admitted and apologized, a woman says, then denied it as we've seen. Hmmm... --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:45, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Where are all those on-the-ground reporters coming from? Did some outlets stop drinking their own kool-aid? Hopefully so, we can use every pair of eyes on the ground. --CE (talk) 23:54, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm, after reading at EA - dunno if they even get the location relative to the river right - the military intelligence academy to the west looked a more valuable target ... but that film isn't available to me. At least we're at the pulse of British journalism tapped by that blog ... watching. --CE (talk) 00:12, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Death Toll Thoughts
Familiar patterns: Similar scale to Houla and other attempted massacres, specific family primarily targeted, cruel, blade-centered death prevalent, burning, being near Homs or Hama. But despite the similarities, this is no Houla massacre, with the killers enjoying total control and real family-level death dished out with 49 dead children. The Telegraph cited "Youssef al-Homsi, an activist based in Homs," who had a list ready of 100 names, "including 15 women and 10 children." That is, a list with 75 men. Like Tremseh or Qubeir, this would seem to be a smaller rebel massacre of maybe 35 members of one family, then many battle dead from after the army responded. If families, why so many women and so few children? They count adults from 13 up sometimes. Some girls are women, some boys among the 75 men. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:20, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

AP: "...the pro-government daily newspaper Al-Watan reported Thursday that Syrian troops advanced in the countryside of Homs "cleansing the villages of Haswiyeh and Dweir as well as their fields" from gunmen. It did not elaborate."--Caustic Logic (talk) 12:33, 18 January 2013 (UTC)


 * There's an ITV guy tweeting from Homs. Has a different take on death toll and who was doing the killing according to witnesses. See here on Moon of Alabama. --CE (talk) 13:16, 18 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Or go directly to Neely's article (should have read the comments first). Thomson anyone? Those damned brits reporting from the ground... ;o) --CE (talk) 13:29, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

News videos (British/Western)
embedded with the original articles:
 * ITN report
 * BBC Report (I can't view this one - maybe it'll be re-posted on Youtube) --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:35, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Other News/opinion/investigation
Nothing at all yet on Youtube for "Haswiyeh" or "Husweyeh." --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:35, 19 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Addounia TV: عدد من الشهداء في مجزرة ارتكبتها المجموعات الارهابية المسلحة في بساتين الحصوية بحمص "Number of martyrs in the massacre committed by armed terrorist groups in gravel in Homs groves." 2:13, syriatube97, Jan. 17. Should be valuable, even non-translated. Some unusual footage, some of it graphic. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:30, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Activist Videos
Arabic spelling ("الحصوية") yields at least three distinct videos (plus re-posts), all here from the prominent set from user Souriaty. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:35, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Burnt Home, Man Weeping 0:18 (turn the volume down before playing)
 * Female Survivors with Kids Speak 3:16 - extremely reminiscent of scenes from Al-Houla, likely rebel family members - the Sunni women in these videos are always are extra veiled and show the Gulf sponsors what they are defending. Neely says she blames armed men she does not identify clearly. The implication of rebels posting it is that she meant Shabiha, but that it's not specified is unusual.
 * Male Alleged Survivor (Masked) Speaks 26:25 - lots of talking, all Arabic. Surely blames Shabiha et al.

Town Name
Neely's smart report from the scene gives a different-sounding name than most: Huwaisa, to the usual (our) Haswiyeh. CNN got Husweyeh. The Hu links the two and suggests something, but the sound order (S-W not W-S) is different for Neely, similar for the others. Neely was there, so that's a point for his version. But I checked Google translate, FWIW. That takes "الحصوي" (usually translating gravel, done in reverse yields "Tophaceous." - a word I do not know). Anyway, it has the audio pronunciation I transliterate "Al-Hasawee." Probably not quite right, but it's S-W, so I suspect we're right, and so is Neely. Maybe it's Al-Huwasawiyeh. Not the biggest deal, but I was curious. But I'll add the fuller name Neely gives - "Basatin al Huwaisa; the orchards of Huwaisa," or orchards of gravel? --Caustic Logic (talk) 15:51, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Just watched the BBC report you linked above and Lyse Doucet also clearly pronounces it S-W. Haswia is perfect for how Germans would pronounce it, maybe Haas-wee-yah for Americans. Report adds nothing to the written article other than that the orchards are quite pretty while Lyse isn't. --CE (talk) 16:12, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Scary Side-Note
From the Telegraph:
 * Several videos have been posted online over the past month of men being slowly, torturously murdered with knives.
 * In one piece of footage seen by The Daily Telegraph, two man stand, whimpering, with their hand against a wall. Behind them, bearded men in military fatigues begin slashing at the men's T-shirts with knives, swearing and proclaiming their support for the Syrian president. Then they begin cutting the flesh on the men's backs. Whipping themselves into frenzy, they eventually stab their screaming victims several times in theirs sides until they cannot stand any longer and fall bloody and dying to the floor.''
 * In private conversations, senior ranking rebel commanders have admitted to The Daily Telegraph that the killings are being perpetrated on both sides.