Talk:U.S. airstrike on Al-Jinah mosque

What's The Mosque?


Is it possible we're all confused here about what's the mosque vs. the meeting place? Christiaan Triebert's satellite view shows no minaret on the "mosque," as everyone takes it. There is this room that looks like a prayer hall, or any large meeting space, perhaps. It has religious books (all Korans, or more varied? It was a religious school, the sign says). Only one building in this cluster of 3 seems to have a dome, and that's the northwest one (someone noted it also has a speaker on it, maybe to broadcast the call to prayer). Only one building in this cluster of 3 might have a minaret here, and it's the northeast one (halfway along the left side in this view, appears sideways, shadow runs barely out into the street, and might be just an illusion). But there's no prayer hall there, just a courtyard (as the handy no-roof view shows) And Bilal Abdul Karim's video shows there's no minaret on that building. Was there once? Was this all the mosque or mosque/school/maeeting halls, with the dome and speakers over here, the hall there, and the minaret maybe nowhere?

Triebert gives this Wikimapia link 'Umar ibn Al-Khaṭṭāb mosque and religious school. The shape marks out the whole area as "mosque," not specifying which building. How long has it been known this was a mosque? Clicking history, revision 1 was adding the polygon, 2 days ago, probably based on the claims from local rebels. So that helps none. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:03, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The Pentagon says they hit the correct target and their photo shows the mosque intact - meaning the mosque must be the small north-western building of the three. The Russians say they have no doubt that the US targeted terrorists and an inquiry should find out who the dead people are "the so-called witnesses" are talking about. --CE (talk) 14:10, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Owners of the mosque(s)
According to Jenan Moussa's twitter report I've just linked on the front page, the complex belongs to the "Tablighis", which seem to be a missionary Sunni movement (never heard about it). Part A and (destroyed) Part B of the large building seem to have been clearly separated according to her report. Given the environment in the middle of nowhere between villages with enough mosques found on wikimapia, and the "old mosque" large enough for the couple of houses in walking distance, I have no problem believing that this was a rare occasion of "surgical strike" against something not exactly civil hosted by that missionary Sunni group. --CE (talk) 22:21, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I noticed the same thing by looking at the history of the building on Google Earth. The mosque was built after 2013, at a time when the area had been taken over by Islamist rebels. I also noted the high quality of the construction; the building is covered in natural stone both inside and outside. This is part of the Islamist shadow state building. The construction was funded by Gulf donors from Saudi Arabia or Qatar.
 * Al-Qaeda are Islamists. Wherever their headquarters are, I am sure they would call the place a "mosque" or a "religious school". -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:35, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Tablighi Jamaat does not seem to be directly connected to Salafism, the Gulf, or al-Qaeda. Here are two anti-Jihadist articles that make the connection. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:06, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Exclusive - DHS Whistleblower: Tablighi Jamaat Is Al-Qaeda-Linked Group Obama Refuses to Track - Breibart, December 11, 2015
 * New Center Monograph Warns Of ‘Gateway’ Group For Violent Jihadists: Tablighi Jama’at - The Counter Jihad Report, October 26, 2016
 * In fact The Counter Jihad Report has a whole section on Tablighi Jamaat.

There are two telecommunications facilities on the field south of the mosque compound, as seen on the photo published by Jenan Moussa. Neither of them existed on August 26, 2014 or any time the area was under Syrian government control. The one on the right is totally new. The building on the left is older but lacked any towers; most likely used for farming. Is some Turkish mobile phone operator building a new network in northern Syria. It seems more likely that they are connected to the mosque compound and serve whatever activity is happening there. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 02:20, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Blaming Russia
In reports where Syrian or Russian forces are blamed, this is usually (not always) known and claimed from the beginning: Syrian jets destroy a mosque, Russian jets bomb a hospital, etc. This time, the jets must have been flying out of Turkey by coalition forces, just a jaunt across the border to hit this mosque. But what should be a simple picture wasn't clear to everyone at first.

SOHR director Rami Abdel Rahman reported “The raids by unidentified warplanes targeted a mosque in Aleppo province during evening prayers, killing 42 people, most of them civilians.” (AFP via Hindustan Times) Why did his sources leave the identity out? Were they hoping they could pin it on Russia or Syria?

Some people went ahead and did. Sakir Khader tweeted #Syria: At least 75 civilians killed, tens wounded in a heavy Russian airstrike on a mosque in the rebel-held village of al-Jinā, w-Aleppo." He was soon tweeting images on English-marked bomb debris and calling it an apparent U.S. attack after all). But some news reports ran with that claim, blaming Russia. 21st Century Wire cites two reports:
 * Saudi-owned Al-Arabiya English At least 42 dead in Russian raids on Aleppo mosque (re-posted by like-minded sites like Mojahedin.org). It cites Abdel Rahman's "unidentified warplanes" eport with its wiggle room, and wiggled to note the SOHR "determines whose planes carry out raids according to type, location, flight patterns and munitions used. But the skies are crowded over Aleppo province, with Syrian regime and Russian warplanes as well as US-led coalition aircraft carrying out air strikes there." So it was probably Russian. That's a s close as they get to an explanation.
 * Kurdish ARA News reports Russia bombs Aleppo mosque, killing dozens of civilians.
 * “The Russian Air Force committed a massacre in northern Aleppo by targeting a mosque full of civilians during evening prayers. 44 people are confirmed dead,” local media activist Salim Halwani told ARA News.

Arabic language searches likely have more such reports, and some of those will likely stick in many minds as the last thing they saw as they sign up to wage Jihad against Russia over this. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:34, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

VDC so far lists two victims, both from Idlib, both civilians. All killed in "Jaina" by warplane shelling. It doesn't specify the mosque, and they died on different days (March 16 and 17) but these are the only people from across the border ever bombed there (Arabic search says the same). No one told them about the 50+ militants (I presume)? According to this, it was a joint strike: Putin killed one guy, Assad bombed the other one, and as we've seen, silly Trump took the credit. --Caustic Logic (talk) 01:07, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * A third victim somehow didn't appear, it's a woman, and here's all three:

Khadouj must be AddelGafour's sister, not wife, if they're serious Sunnis. If not, they wouldn't be at such a meeting. AddelGafour has the same first name and last name, which is odd but not unheard of. --Caustic Logic (talk) 01:19, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Khadouj Ahmad Abd al-Gafour, adult female (mixed meeting, really?) from Sarmada killed 3-16 by Syrian bombing
 * Mostafa Naser Yasin, adult male, from Sarmada, killed 3-16 by Russian bombing
 * Abd al-Gafour Abd al-Gafour, adult male, from unclear, killed by Syrian bombing, 3-17.