Talk:Beirut 2020 explosion

I see no reason to think it is not accidental; there were many major ammonium nitrate accidents in the past. --Resup (talk) 12:14, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * It looks like an accident, OR something made to look like one. I see a few reasons for the latter. The degree of negligence and coincidence is so high it's rather questionable; details still emerging and should be brought here (will try), but it seems 2 warehouses were left/made fire-prone so when a blaze started, it could spread from one to the other, the second containing fireworks stored next to the AN. It took a while to burn to the explosive part, so that comes out being a massive bomb with a nice long fuse - and you'd want time to get far away once you lit it (you might want to trigger it remotely, but seeing it begun in person is more sure). This would require sole access to the site and some sabotage work, moving things around to become strategically unsafe. Then it seems firefighters were completely locked out of the warehouse 12, and may have had their water turned off, ensuring they couldn't defuse the bomb (in a video and a photo, no spray or wet pavement is seen). Recent Al Qaeda threats may have referred to this; they'd like to claim it and sow terror, but only by hints that ideally the Lebanese get and the rest of us don't (Lebanon has to be blamed for their criminal negligence, not sympathized with as victims of terrorism). Israel is also suspect, others might be - the who part isn't certain. And I note this unprecedented "nuclear" blast happening on about the Hiroshima anniversary underlines a message to Lebanon's government that they'll have to unconditionally surrender, before the "second bomb" if they're smart. That's it so far - a decent basis for attack even excluding all these fake videos and confused claims. --Caustic Logic (talk) 03:00, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Ammonium nitrate may be set of by high enough temperature. On videos, we see, I gather, that the place is on different sort of fire, they say firecrackers (grey smoke, big fire on the ground, flashing sparks). Intense reddish smoke, presumably telling of ammonium nitrate reacting, appears just before and with the big blast. This suggests that ammonium nitrate is set off by fire not by a "bomb". It will be pretty hard to be confident that this will work as sabotage (and initial fire is not put out or fail to explosively ignite bags sitting there for years). First reports of police investigation tell of welding work, before port officials backtracked and government officials started to give hints blaming some dark external forces. Which became Israel then. But this really reflects "irrational exuberance" of claimants towards Israel, or political convenience. IDF may use heavy tactics like taking out a house or car with wanted man inside but untargeted bombing of a city like this would be off limits, unless there is a major war (and in a major war any Western democracy may resort to targeting infrastructure, otherwise nobody will have nukes). But there is no major war or particular desire to have it... AQ or similar group no idea, have not seen such claims elsewhere. It does not change fire as trigger; they may have lower threshold for trying things out whether or not this is assured to work; but still it needs some evidence that this is what happened (and not eg Marcians landed there on one of those "extra-terrestrial vehicles" to avoid parking charges) --Resup (talk) 06:56, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

On politics side. The real fighting force is Hezbollah. If there is a major civil unrest or a war, they are best positioned to take over. The guy actually killed in the blast, FWIW, is of Armenian descent, from a pretty radical Christian party. Some previous victims from the same political wing are listed as as anti-Syrian influence. So this does not do any good to "Israel." Unless they decided to demonically sponsor Hezbollah recruiting campaign, maybe. AQ-types would have more to gain externally (but it is not established to be non-accidental) --Resup (talk) 12:26, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Israeli offer of aid and its non-reception

 * Twitter (in Arabic), Avichay Adraee (of Syrian Jewish, Iraqi Jewish, and Turkish Jewish descent), Lieutenant Colonel in the Israel Defense Forces and head of the Arab media division, August 4, 2020
 * ''Under the directives of the defense and foreign ministers, Israel went to Lebanon through international security and political bodies and offered humanitarian and medical assistance. Israel has great experience in these areas, and this has proven this during numerous humanitarian relief missions around the world in recent years. It's time to put all conflicts aside
 * Twitter, Avichay Adraee (see above), August 8, 2020
 * ''Lebanon's flag over the municipality of Rahat, southern Israel. The municipality of Rahat raises the # Lebanon flag over the municipality building, in solidarity with the victims of Beirut and the people of Lebanon.
 * Twitter, Avichay Adraee (see above), August 9, 2020
 * ''From the Holy Land - Israel to the homeland of the saints. Prayers were raised yesterday from Nazareth in solidarity with the tragedy that befell Beirut. The Greek Orthodox Church of the Annunciation in Nazareth adorned the Lebanese flag with the intention of the Victims of the Beirut Port explosion
 * Israel offers medical aid to Lebanon, response is silence - JPost, August 5, 2020
 * ''The heads of several Israeli hospitals have reached out to Lebanese officials and the United Nations offering medical support to the country’s wounded.
 * Israel's Lebanon aid offer unlikely to find a taker - AFP, August 8, 2020
 * ''For some it's a gesture of goodwill, to others sheer hypocrisy: Israel's offer of humanitarian aid to Lebanon after the massive Beirut blast is unlikely to be taken up. The two neighbours are still technically at war, have no diplomatic ties and mutual suspicion, even animosity, defines their relations.

--Resup (talk) 23:47, 9 August 2020 (UTC)