Talk:Al-Bayda Massacre

Death Toll
Early reports were a bit vague, and the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights heard "several and conflicting reports on the number of people killed in the village of al-Bayda by regime forces and pro-regime gunmen from the nearby villages." Some said more than 50, while other said more than 100. SOHR May 2 By May 3, SOHR heard "No less than 51 people were summarily executed," including women and children, and not clearly excluding combatant deaths on either side. SOHR May 3 The BBC reported on May 4 that 72 had died. A list of 70 names pops up from the Syrian Center for the Documentation of Violations' database for May 2 deaths in "Banias: Beida." All are listed as civilian, all field executed. There are another two names listed under Aleppo but who died in Beida, and they're also in the 70 - listed twice. (see below). --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:54, 6 June 2013 (UTC) Syrian loyalist site SyrianMasah.net, Arabic, reported after the massacre (translated) "This has been found the bodies of 62 civilians in the countryside of Banias in a new massacre added to the Jabhat al-Nusrah massacres."

I believe I saw wild reports (specifically about al-Bayda and not Baniyas) saying hundreds (400 or 800) were killed. If I run across that again, will post here. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:54, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Revolting Syrian: "A total of 141 men, women and children are confirmed to have been killed by Assad’s forces in the villages of Al Bayda and Ras Al Nabeh (combined). Activists in the villages are saying that upto 800 people have been killed so far." How many in just Bayda in these high-end estimates remains unsure.

A much bigger list closer to the alarmist numbers bandied about seems to cite 165 victims, all in Arabic, ostensibly from the al-Bayda massacre alone, but compiled only on May 6. The list is signed "تجمع نبض للشباب المدني السوري" ( organization of the pulse of young people, Syrian civil, something ). They note cautiously this is only the victims they could document, but many more were surely killed! There are many names given, and some reason to believe the smaller list of 70 is missing at least some verified victims (especially children -the videos show more of these killed than appear in the SCDV database).

Update: I'm about half-done digesting this big list. A lot of the new names and variations are fleshing out interesting patterns, like how most victims seem to be of a few families all related one way or another to government-loyalist imam Sheikh Omar Biassi. And so I suspect it's at least mostly based on real people. It definitely includes deaths given by the SCDV as happening after May 2, however. So for starters it's not even comparable to the 70 listed there as dying on the 2nd. It might include people who went missing from there as rebels retreated (reported as hundreds, quite possibly dozens), killed off over the following days in different locales. The list quite possibly contains duplicate entries, and at least one blank entry (31-32 is followed by only one name). So it seems the initial death toll could be above the 70 we were been working with before this find, but I might have over-stated that possibility. Not that the initial 70 should be the benchmark for the death toll. They all seem related, and it might be that some 150-ish people were massacred in part just to make a huge example of that meddling imam. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:52, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

A Victims List
First, since we have the ensuing Baniyas massacre(s) mixed-in, this list is only for those victims given for al-Bayda, on May 2, May 3, or any other relevant day that might pop up. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC) (First entry with Arabic is from Saned N.N Facebook
 * 1) Omar Nassiriyah aka/alias Omar Biassi  ( عمر نصرية الملقب عمر بياسي  )- Omar Biassie, Imam of al-Bayda mosque, executed with family by rebels
 * 2) Manar Albiassi (  منار البياسي ), killed with husband Zakaria al-Shawish. Alt: Manar Biaasie, The Imam’s sister, also killed by rebels with "her husband and their kids."
 * 3) Zakaria al-Shawish ( زكريا الشاويش ) killed with his wife Manar Albiassi. Alt: killed with their children as well.
 * 4) (unnamed, un-numbered: the children here)
 * 5) Yousef Fattouh ( يوسف فتوح  )
 * 6) Yousef Fattouh's brother ( وشقيقه )
 * 7) Abu Ahmed Munira ( ابو احمد منيرة )
 * 8) Sabah/Sbah al-Shehri/alshghry ( صباح الشغري )
 * 9) Yasser Taha ( ياسر طه  )
 * 10) Mohammed Safi Tyba ( محمد صافي طيبا )
 * 11) Maaz Tyba ( معاذ طيبا )
 * 12) Abdul Qader/Abdelkader Udour/qdwr (? translates "pots") Walid/wald Mohammed (? Mohammed's Father) high/graduated (grandfather?), ( عبد القادر قدور والد محمد )

Total: 11 plus the children (14-17 is a reasonable guess) "and all of them were killed by burning." ( عليا وجميعهم استشهدوا حرقا )
 * Clearly an incomplete list, app. from first/vague reports. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:12, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Syrian Center for the Documentation of Violations
All deaths in Baniyas:Beida, May 2: 70 names, all civilian, all field executed (as given). --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:54, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * For some reason, the list now says there are 69 entries, not 70. Hmmm... --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:53, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Arab Worlds
This much bigger list seems to be closer to the alarmist numbers bandied about. It seems to cite 165 victims, all in Arabic, but compiled only on May 6. The list is signed "تجمع نبض للشباب المدني السوري" ( organization of the pulse of young people, Syrian civil, something ). They note cautiously this is only the victims they could document, but many more were surely killed! The intro text relates a story similar to what we've hear but with frequest reference to Christians - apparently on the attacking end, coming from a village Marah ( المراح ) and/or a mountain ( العجمة ), with Muslim captives taken to a village alzubh ( الزوبة ) and burned alive. The initial attack, they heard, "killed three members of the Free Army and the escape of the other two (?)" anyway, the list is my point, it's huge. I didn't notice any that should be listed under Baniyas, nor tagged any duplicate entries (despite looking at some possible ones - ex: #14 Sheikh Omar Biasi vs. #93 Bashari Omar Biasi. 41-49/50 are what we call below the Fattouh-Biassa sub-family, larger than listed below, more babies. More Biasis, and several other families must have extra members, plus other families, including kids (youngest ages only generally noted) and what seems to be a 100-year-old (#73, Mohamed Taha). An anonymous 8-year-old boy (#161), 4 unnamed workers for Omar Badawi? (162-65) Etc. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:12, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
 * ماذا حدث في البيضا : عن شهود عيان .... ( " What happened in Beida: witnesses .... " )
 * As I consider higher death tolls, still on the lookout for duplicate entries and inflation. Found at least two mis-placed entries: 64 - Osman Mustafa Jalul ( عثمان مصطفى جلول ) 65 - Abdel Rahman Said Jalul ( عبد الرحمن سعيد جلول ) The first doesn't appear in the SCDV database, but the second Abdulrahman Moustafa Saeid Jalloul is listed there as killed in Ras al-Nabea May 4. As noted below, there are four Omar Biasis listed. And then there are a large number of confusingly similar named-a Mohammed Ahmed and then an Ahmed Mohammed, etc. Consider three sets of Yasser Ahmed and Maysar Ahmed: #62/63 (Taha), 81/82 (Shehadeh), 132/133 (Taha again). This thing is puffed up. I'm sensing/guessing (broadly) about 80-120 actual victims, extra members added and new people made up by re-mixing others. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:02, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Identified Victims
The following subsets of various types of victims need sorted out individually for clues, the groups compared for possible overlap, and understood in time and space as much as possible. It might take a while, at our rate, to do it right. But below is a start. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Sections re-organized a bit. We now have some serious specifics below. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:07, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

The Imam and his Family
Syrian Girl Partisan on Facebook posted one account from an activist, relating the basic common themes he heard from friends living in Baniyas (not eyewitnesses but informed). The Imam of Bayda mosque is central to this narrative, named as Omar Biassie. He was a former revolution supporter. until the rebels:
 * ...made a lie about him that SAA killed him. So he appeared on the Syrian TV saying they are lying and its part of the propaganda. Apparently FSA hated him for this. And now it was the right time to kill him and his family for real this time to blame the SAA and whine about it like they always do.

The second targeted family, the activist says, was the Imam’s sister, Manar Biaasie, massacred with her husband and their children. He cited a rebel-affiliated victims list, cited above, with these same names included, noting "they know exactly who they killed." And for context, his sources pointed out
 * Before the army got there, terrorists were in control of the town and did their massacre killing the 2 families of Baiaase. Army came, surrounded the Bayda. Killed the terrorists. 9 soldiers were martyred in this operation. Since there were army martyrs, it means the town was infected with many rats. So whoever killed those soldiers also killed the 2 families.

This remains to be confirmed by more detailed study, but it all sounds eminently plausible, given established precedents. --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The timeline clues bear this out. Whoever killed the soldiers did it in the wee hours, reports say. the timeline below explains early morning rebel videos of massacre scenes, preceded by dark pre-dawn/midnight videos of the same scenes. At least 32 children, women, and men slaughtered just after the early rebel victory, some time before the start of the army assault. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:09, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

The Saned N.N. victims list, above, names Sheikh Biassi, as well as his sister, but does not specify his position or relevance. Other initial reports made no special mention or note that among this genocide was such a prominent leader amongst Sunnis. However, pro-rebel Yalla Souriya reported, later, on May 4, that "Sheikh Omar Bayasi," shown dead in a rebel photo, was in fact "the Imam of al Bayda Mousqe in Bayda Village, Banias." He was killed May 2 in "Assad’s bloody massacre ... Rest in Peace Mr. Omar and Rest in Shame Humanity!" But it was the rebels who were there to take his photo to prove it, very close-up, with no Shabiha or army snipers barring the way to this citizen journalist-activist. The scene looks to be mid-morning, but that might be my imagination. No background clues on location. He has lain face-first in a pool of blood, marring his white hair and beard. The blood has dried a bit, but he's freshly dead. His face shows perhaps the most extreme disappointment. No precise clue to death - he wasn't killed by burning, from the neck up anyways. Blood from the nose, suggested, is consistent with a few things. source--Caustic Logic (talk) 10:09, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Voice of Russia spoke on the 4th to "political analyst Dr Haled Haydar of Baniyas," who denied any massacres there, but said this about the fighting on the 2nd in al-Bayda:
 * Armed terrorists penetrating defence lines turned up in the village of al-Bayda. Army units followed the infiltrators and eliminated them. At the end of the operation, soldiers discovered numerous arms caches. The military offensive was started in response to the brutal assassination of Sheikh Omar Baniyasi [sic], who was a member of the National Reconciliation Committee and a known advocate of interfaith dialogue and national unity. He was a true Syrian patriot.
 * If true, we have a motive. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:50, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Arabic-language sources from Syria have a little more info. Syrian Masah.net, Tartous 2Day, and the most detail at Syriatruth.org. These say (translated) he was "the imam of al-Bayda and a member of the National Reconciliation Commission" killed along with his son and his wife by "takfirists." There's a picture of him spliced over a Syrian national flag, looking like the same guy we see dead. Syriatruth says the problems started in late April with rebels talking about taking the fight to "their own house Nusayri (Alawites) in the Syrian coast," then they moved in and assassinated Colonel Ali Abu-Assad "near the area of ​​"Castle Bridge" near the village, where there is a military unit." Continuing:
 * "Three days ago (April 31?), the oldest gunmen targeting an army checkpoint in the area, prompting the army and security services to do on the first Wednesday and on Thursday a campaign combing raids inside the village, "Beida" The Village "observatory" and the "top of the spring," the funniest city of Banias search for the gunmen and shooters. And it developed dramatically on Thursday, while the oldest gunmen holed up inside "Beida" in a manner similar to the ambush on Mgavlh ( مغافلة ) elements of the army searched the village and besieged and took 40 of them hostage element. Here are the oldest on the besieged army "Beida" and "the observatory" and "Castle Bridge", a three populations barely edges overlap and make them localities one. There was at least a hundred to a hundred and twenty militants were holed up, as usual in a number of buildings of the three regions, noted that most of the population "Beida" was displaced them in earlier times to other areas adjacent to the city of Banias itself.
 * This situation, which kidnapped 40 soldiers, prompted the army to assign imam of the village mosque "Beida" Sheikh Omar Biasi, which is known for that rejects violence and the carrying of weapons since the beginning of the crisis, to negotiate with the gunmen for the release of the hostages, but they refused to do so. Not content with the matter, but resorted to killing of Sheikh and his wife (there is information says they were killed in a slaughter, but it is uncertain).--Caustic Logic (talk) 23:48, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Reuters, May 28, hearing from Bayda massacre historian, omniscient narrator school of thought, pseudonym Ahmad:
 * There was Sheikh Omar Biyasi, 62, whose body Ahmad found alongside the Sheikh's slain wife and son, Hamzah, a medical student. Sheikh Biyasi had been the village imam for 30 years. He was a government loyalist who alienated local people with his political views before resigning two years ago. "Even though he always opposed the protests, they still killed him," said Ahmad.
 * The Biyasi family suffered some of the worst losses, with 36 documented deaths. Ahmad found bodies belonging to the family in one small room; a mother and her three daughters and young son, who was at the local school with Ahmad's children. "They were leaning on each other," Ahmad recalled.

Wow. It really must be just "anyone Sunni" now, huh? Only the pro-government Sunni family, of course. Jesus, right there, they admit this massacre was mainly the one first mentioned as being done by them against government loyalists. 50, maybe 100 people killed, maybe including the 7-40-ish killed Shabiha and 36 Biyasis and/or other combat deaths following! --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:55, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

The Syrian Center for the Documentation of Violations has 22 entries with Biyyasi or Biyyasa attached among the 70 who died in al-Bayda on May 2. There are at least two others belong (Fattouh seems to be a subset, with 7 entries, only one lacking "Bayyasa", and there's Zakarya al-Shawish"Housein" married to Manar Bayyasi) for at least 24 relatives including Imam Omar Bayassi, given as Omar Aziz Bayyasi, age and station not given, with additional unique details "married and has children," "known as Omar Naser."--Caustic Logic (talk) 09:54, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

The biggest victims list I've examined, entries up to #165, features 28 instances of Biasi ( بياسي ). The exact number of victims listed I didn't decide yet - Some include wife or children past the single mention, like 156 - 160 "Abdel Fattah (Fattouh?) Biasi and his wife and three children." and then there's the apparent over-count; an Omar Aziz Biasi (#92), another Omar Aziz (145), an Omar Omar Biasi (16), and a Sheikh Omar Biasi (13), to the SCDV's single Omar Aziz Bayyasi, presumably the sheikh. Only Omar Omar seems to be clearly a different person, a son, but not listed or mentioned elsewhere. He's alongside Hamza Omar, Heba Omar, and Barah Omar (براءة عمر). Also Manar is named, with her husband, and probably children and grandchildren. But there's also a second apparent sister and her family that were killed, Sabah, age 70, married to an al-Shoghri, over a dozen of whom died (see below, other relations). --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:49, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

And more: on sister Manar, possibly not a sister, age not given: the SCDV lists her as Manar Ezzadin Bayyasi, martyred with her husband Zakarya Shawish and her father. He's #152 on the Arab Worlds list, Izz al-Din Biasi ( عز الدين بياسي ) SCDV Ezzadin Bayyasi, "martyred with his daughter Manar." Again, age not given.--Caustic Logic (talk) 08:23, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Open Questions:
 * Can we track down this video where the sheikh accused the rebels of falsely reporting his death once before?  --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:04, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Can we time the photo with any precision? Order of operations here clearly matters. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:17, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * What if any significance is there to Sheikh Biassi being listed aka Nassiriya/Naser? --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:04, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Video of Sheikh Biassi
wIgwE-UD5P4 I had a friend translate the content (tweaked a bit here for grammar, and all paraphrased). --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:43, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
 * حقيقة مجزرة البيضا في بانياس وكذب شهود الجزيرة والعربية من الجيش الحر الحرامى بعد احباط عملياتهم الأ ( Fact massacre Beida in Banias, witnesses lied-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya from the army free thief foil their operations only after ) Posted May 3 by كمال توفيق ( Kamal Tawfiq ) From a SANA report, has him speaking at some length to an audience including Catholic priests (1:28-2:00 - interviews with locals blaming the Free Army, original footage from the square, and more. A translation of what he says here would be most helpful. This one deserves an embed.
 * First soldier: The army has cleared the forest surrounding the village, and inside Al Bayda. They found a military base and a large weapons cache.
 * Second soldier: the militants have set fire to the buildings and the cars of the civilians.
 * Announcer: The armed terrorist gangs have killed Sheikh Omar Al Bayasi, a member of the National Reconciliation Commission, which was calling for forgiveness and dialogue.
 * Sheikh Omar Al Bayasi: We believe that resolving the crisis in Syria, which was safe and stable, will be done by dialogue, for the ship with its captain Bashar al-Assad to reach safety.
 * Announcer: residents say the terrorism does not scare them away, and they (something about needing) the Syrian Arab Army which protects them.

I guessed a bit on Bayasi's line, but "ship" was mentioned, and this is coastal Tartous. Sounds about right to me. Note how the rebels who claim Sheikh Omar as a martyr meant to scare all Sunnis, can only show his bloodied face. SANA here lets you the see him speaking, showing a bit of his mind as well. It's probably these beliefs that got him and dozens of people related to him killed in those first dark hours of May 2, before the army could get there. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:43, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Fattouh Sub-Family
This sub-family lost 8-9 members as given, and was seemingly part of the Biassi family by marriage of a daughter of the imam. "Darker Net" reported from its breathless sources: "Family Massacre: Hamza Muhammad Fatouh (1.5 years old), his mother Safaa Ali Bayaseh, his father Muhammad Abdullah Fatouh, and his grandfather Abdullah Fatouh, and his siblings Aisha, Halima, Sara, Shahed, and Abdullah, were all slaughtered by Assad forces in Bayda, Banias." Nine victims named. Two members of this family appear on the top list - Youssef Fattouh and his unnamed brother. Several come through in the Syrian Center for Documentation of Violations database (all Bayda deaths, May 2) features eight:
 * Mohammad Abdullah Fattouh Bayyasa - adult male
 * Aysha Abdullah Fattouh Bayyasa (page has a photo, three girls posing) child,female, mother: Safaa
 * Sara Abdullah Fattouh Bayyasa - girl, same photo, same mother
 * Halima Abdullah Fattouh Bayyasa - girl, same photo, same mother
 * Hamza Abdullah Fattouh Bayyasa - child, male, age 1. Mother: Safaa
 * Abdullah Yousef Fattouh - adult male
 * Abdullah Fattouh Bayyasa - adult male, Married with 4 children
 * Safaa Ali Bayyasa - adult female, Married with 4 children

Arab Worlds listed these all in relation to little Hamza, a year and a half old they say. Safaa Ali Biasi and Abdullah Fattouh are mother and father of Hamza. Aisha, Sarah, and Halima are sisters of Hamza, and are joined by a fourth sister, Shehideh ( شهد ).There's also an added Ijd (gradfather) Hamza ( جد حمزة ) name not provided, but presumably an elder Fattouh. That's eight entries - Fattouh ( فتوح ) appears only six times for these. Above, we also had a Yousef Fattouh ( يوسف فتوح) and his unnamed brother. This list might include him differently, but not that I noticed yet (only half-done digesting it). Below, separately, a possible partial re-list of this same family: entries 156 - 160: Abdel Fattah Biasi and his wife and three children ( عبد الفتاح بياسي و زوجته و اولاده الثلاثة ), followed by #161 - "anonymous" boy, 8 years old (see "A domestic scene" below, with an extra boy, it seems, about that age - ??) --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:08, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Other Relations
Al-Shoghri: including Ibrahim al Shoghri the elderly disabled man charred in the streets, this clan also apparently came into the line of fire due to relation to the Imam. The big list from Arab Worlds says for entry 19 Sabah Biasi (Female name, "morning"  - صباح بياسي ). This follows Sheikh Omar Biasi, his wife, and four children - she's perhaps a fifth. All grown up, she had a son and even a grandson listed below her: #20 Mohammed al-Shoghri (son of Sabah) and then 21 Mohamed Mohamed al-Shoghri (son of Muhammad). For her offspring to have that name, apparently she married an al-Shoghri. The first list above in fact included Sabah/Sbah al-Shehri/alshghry ( صباح الشغري ). That could actually be two people - the Arab Worlds list has a separate entry #97 for Sabah Ahmed Al-Shoghri, age 12. But the SCDV specifies the one that seems a grandmother is Sabah al-Shaghri, age 70, married and has children, "martyred with her son and grandson." Perhaps for that reason (plus possible inflation) the name Al-Shoghri ( الشغري ) appears here 17 times (entries 9-12, 20-22, 25, 26, 41, 42, 93-98). Her son Mohammed has a SCDV entry worth linking to just because it's one of the few with a photo included. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:08, 12 July 2013 (UTC) and --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:45, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Qaddour: In the first list above, entry 11, better translated Qaddour or Kadour ("pots"), a granfather apparently of a Mohammed (?). Same new list, entry 28, says Aisha Qaddour, wife of Mohammed Mustafa Ali Biasi ( عائشة قدور زوجة محمد مصطفى علي بياسي ). He's #27 ( محمد مصطفى علي بياسي ), and they're followed by perhaps four children. Two boys, specified as babies, a "daughter of Mustafa Ali Biasi," and a blank entry #31 before her. Qaddour ( قدور ) appears here for 17 entries (1-6, 28, 36, 83-85, 86-90 (Mustafa Hussein Udour/Qaddour and his family, unnamed), 144. This family too is married into the Biasis! --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:08, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Almost everyone on that first tiny sampler list can now be shown as a reported relation of loyalist trouble-maker Sheikh Omar Biasi, and I'm still digesting this giant list. Likely all of those, if not every civilian targeted, was related. I now suspect whatever set them off against the imam that morning answers the politics question down the line, or at least answers most of it. Too bad only their religion mattered to people like Navi Pillay. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:58, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Hamouda: For a smaller connection, entry #104 is Amina Hamouda (wife of Mustafa Biasi), who's #103 two more Biasis follow, a mother Obaid and an unnamed daughter). This relation perhaps brought Amina and two male relatives into the line of fire. Hamouda ( حمودة ) appears also for entries 116 Mohamed Abdel Aziz Hamouda and 117 Ammar Mohamed Hamouda. That may be all those specified with a Biasi ( بياسي ) relation, after scanning all 28 instances. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:45, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Yasin: That may be all for al-Bayda, but there were several families hit in both massacres, Baniyas as well. That includes by name only one Biassi, with a possible link to another family: Fahima Yasin Bayyasi, 20-year-old female killed on the oddball late date of May 6 by "shooting." The Yasin part is a common name, but only four people with it are are listed killed in Tartous May 2-May 6 (that is, in both massacres combined), and all on the same oddball day, May 6. According to the LCC's 173 victims list, the Yassin family ( عائلة ياسين ) lost four members (entries 24-27). By the list with three approximate name matches, Fahima is not included (this list also misspelled family name as Iyasi ( ياسي )), but does for some reason include Sidra Tahhouf (SCDV) ( سيدرا تحوف ), female, age 3. Arguably then, we have five members of this family, all the Yasins killed May 6, one suggesting some link back to the original targeted family, allowing the five-day reign of terror to being and end with victims named Biassi. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:46, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Later Deaths
The same SCDV database showing 24 Biyassis minimum killed May 2 shows at least two more dying in the following days. On May 4, Isma Bayyasi, adult male, age not given, died from "shooting," not field execution (rebels were pushed further out), "by regime forces sniper's shot," of course. Two non-Biyyasis died in Beida the same day, both due to shelling, it says -not so targeted-sounding. Then on May 6, somewhere in Banias (perhaps Beida), one Fahima Yasin Bayyasi, female, age 20, was killed by "Shooting." Sniper, I'd bet. The regime hated that family all of a sudden. That's 26 to Ahmad's 36. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:41, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

The Child Victims of Al-Bayda
Note: errors stricken out, updates below. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:27, 29 June 2013 (UTC) There are at least six photos of identified child victims (when living and happy-ish) of the Al-Bayda Baniyas massacres, compiled with dozens of horrifying images of the dead (plus several misattributed and recycled photos), at this "syrianarmyfree.com" page. Of those six, one is a victim of the Baniyas massacre, and the other five died in Bayda and are all members of the Biassi/Bayyasa family. Anne Barnard - in her May 14 NYT article (page 2): "Residents posted smiling pictures of children they said had been killed: Moaz al-Biassi, 1 year old, and his sister Afnan, 3. Three sisters, Halima, Sara, and Aisha. Curly-haired Noor, and Fatima, too little to have much hair but already sporting earrings." Fatima in Baniyas, with the earrings, charred later from the waist down, covered here. Noor, apparently not shown, possibly Baniyas, either Noor Sohayb Khaddam or her daughter. I have seen the three sisters (see below) in the SCDV database - Aysha Abdullah Fattouh Bayyasa, sisters Halima and Sara listed, along with mother Safaa Ali Bayyasa, father father Abdullah Fattouh Bayyasa, and brother Hamza. (all included here). So three members of the pro-government family. As for the other two shown, by deduction: little Moaz (5 months?), and Afnan, also of the gov't loyalist Biassi family. Also, four young kids are shown raising victory signs and smiling. Not sure who those are supposed to be. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:42, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Augh, as I'm wrapping up, no the 3 year-old girl is " سيدا تحوف " (Seda Tahoof?) age 3, aka Sabah Ali Taha, vitim of Ras al-Nabi', age 3, alternate and cuter photo there. So I guess the boy too is questioned, but we have at least three. (all to be reorganized someday) --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:42, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The 5-month old boy is, at least a Facebook page says, "Ibrahim Haithem Skaif, 5 months old from Baniyas. He was killed with his family in the massacre on 03/05/201." SCDV lists Ibrahim Haytham Ibrahim Skeif, his dad and sister, a twin one ("She is five months old"), no photo. Oddly, they are all listed among the 13 who died on May 6. Fahima Yasin Bayyasi is included, like all, dying in simply "Baniyas," unspecified. And surprise to learn there, Sidra Tahhouf has a separate listing there from the same age, similar name, similar-looking Sabha Taha. Little Sidra was killed on May 6, according to this. I had presumed that was a clerical error, though the photos weren't obvious matches. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:27, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

So, in short, most of the child victims photos are attributed to Baniyas, and only a few to al-Bayda. I'm not sure now if any of those are not from the Biassi families, but these are the five rebels and opposition have been tugging on our heartstrings with (and pulling our brains behind). Before that, I managed to find a combined image of Moaz and Afnan's photos on this Facebook post, added below. The simple description says "Moaz Abdulmoneim Bayaseh (L) and his sister Afnan (R), from al-Bayda, Baniyas. They were both killed in the massacre on 02/05/2013." That's five little kids of a LOYALIST Syrian family, most likely slaughtered by unaccountable rebels with their blank-check checkbook for false-flag forgery. Hatchets to the face make the regime look worse, so let it rip. And their media mouthpieces as usual use the slaughtered innocence against the government that would have liked to save these kids, but are getting f***ed with too much to keep up fully. I can guarantee heavier weapons will lead to more of these. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:33, 29 June 2013 (UTC) Note: The Syrian Center for Violations of Documentation list seems to be missing some Biassis and some children. Only three girls, the Fattouh-Biassa ones, are listed killed in Bayda, May 2. The five boys include their brother Hamza, Ahmad Othman (covered below), and three not yet examined. 8 people total listed as children, with at least Moaz and Afnan Biassi/Bayyasa missing. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:05, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Aleppo Refugees? Al-Debesh
Tartous, as one of the safest provinces in Syria, has become a destination for those fleeing the war in other parts of Syria. There are two names listed twice, under Aleppo but who died in Beida, and again as from Baniyas:Beida like the other 68. These two might be refugees from Aleppo, a father and son perhaps, who fled from, say, a rebel conquest of their neighborhood there. There might also be females who were spared or went "missing" as whoever attacked these people who perhaps had a mutual dislike with the rebels. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:54, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Zakarya a-Debesh, Beida
 * Mohammad Soubhi al-Debesh, Beida
 * Zakaria al-Debesh, Aleppo age 42, killed in Beida
 * Mohammad Subhi al-Dbesh, Aleppo Child, age 15, killed in Beida

The next day, two members of a family Dahbash, possibly the same, were killed in the Baniyas massacre, according to the same database. Again, they seem to be a father and son, but this time no Aleppo clues, but by name are linked to the Jalloul family, who lost many mebers. These are: Both have videos attached, but they're the same one attached to all Baniyas victims, a general Baniyas massacre video we've already seen I presume. Didn't sign in to see which one this is. --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:57, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Moustafa Mohammad Jalloul al-Dahbash, child, age 14, killed May 3, "Martyred with his father by regime forces"
 * MOhammad Jalloul al-Dahbash, adult male, age not given, married with children, killed May 4

Namoura
According to the biggest list, five members of this family ( نمورة ) were killed in al-Bayda on May 2, one of them a 3-year-old boy. The SCDV lists three members, no children: Mohammad Nammoura, Mohamma Namoura's wife, and Ibrahim Nammoura. Two months to the day earlier, another family son - Bilal Namoura from "Banyas : Byda Village" - was reportedly slain by regime forces while away - fighting with the FSA in soon-to-be-gassed Khan al-Assal, Aleppo. Perhaps unrelated, at least five members of a Namoura family living in Daraya, Damascus, were killed in the Daraya Massacre in August 2012. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:07, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Massacre Scene Analysis
This is where we look at visual and other evidence following the massacres, analyze fordetails, and when possible interweave with the identity evidence above. Some of the scene nicknames are not very good, picked early and arbitrarily. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:07, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

A Domestic Scene
Some images suggested a video I finally ran across of a purported scene from al-Bayda, May 2. بانياس مجزرة في أحد منازل قرية البيضا 2-5-2013 Banias - a massacre in a house in the village of al-Bayda What seems to be one woman and her young daughter lay dead, curled up, at the foot of an empty bed. To the right against a wall, another woman, it seems laid over/shielding two smaller children. Again, one of the few things we can tell about this crime scene is opposition cameras had free access at some point. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:17, 24 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry for not catching up on this double massacre thing but at least I went over to Urs to check what's up there. A long kind of rambling post talking of re-arrangment of some pile members, and maybe more interesting (or at least clear enough for me) is this one which shows the video you linked above, but in addition another video which shows the same scene with the same plus other victims at night, with the victims still bleeding! --CE (talk) 11:59, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Great add. I thought it might be the one night scene of many more women and children, but this is new, and does seem to be apparently the same scene, at least from the lady in purple. But there's other people too, as noted. At least one... didn't compare closely yet. ... around 4 am the "Shabiha" ambush supposedly happened, the Biassie families killed in the early AM too. Early enough that this it, pre-sunrise? This could be them or, really, anywhere. The reported massacre was to be in al-Bayda and until Ras al-Nabi', all was to be pinned on that. So wherever it happened, it was pinned in al-Bayda. And again, we have long-running or frequent periods of rebel access to the crime scenes, coming and going at all time of different days, even as someone moves the bodies around. ... --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:45, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * All the nighttime victims are fully clothed, so the killing could not have happened very late. Also, as I said here, I only rained around around 11 pm. I believe all 4 nighttime videos are from the same source, possible the killers. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 13:06, 27 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the link. I had not seen this video before. (Now on my playlist.) He is right, the victim is still bleeding, possibly alive. The whole page makes me sick. Must go outside. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 13:01, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Comparing these two videos (managed to save both), at least six bodies, all women or children, are present here. In the night-time video, 0:07, the narrator says "Khiryabet (village) al-Bayda") First, the three female victims at the foot of the empty bed; the girl/young woman in silver is a bizarre specimen. Still pouring blood down her nose, freshly dead, strange injury to the right palm, strange left finger pointing to it, strange posture, sitting far upright. It almost looks fake, but I doubt that. I'm not sure if she's an extra victim - dark skirt, light top, if slumped over, could be what's between the other girls in the daytime video. The one further has her face covered there, uncovered at night, eerily gazing up with eyes frozen open. The younger girl in purple hunched over, mysterious death in the day view, but the night video ... (0:14-0:21) - she has a massive stab wound to the left back, likely hitting her heart, possibly passing clear through, and much blood beneath, fresh like all of it. Her left arm, all but the hand, is either clad in or covered with something matte black and lumpy, or was severely charred prior to dying here. At 0:15, is that the end of forearm bones sticking out at the elbow, or something else? I'm not sure. --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:44, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

The other three across the room: Heartbreaking. A woman in a purple floral dress and blue headscarf apparently died frozen like a spider, protectively splayed over what must be her children. It wasn't enough. Underneath, a young boy (aged 8-10?) is left with his upper body hanging out unprotected, horrible but unclear chest and head injuries, blood poured from his nose and possibly also a hole in the left side of his lower neck. Night video 0:30 - his shorts say Barcelona (see Ahmad Othman). To clarify, the night video was shot first - he wet his shorts and they've dried more by the day shot (night 0:37, 0:10 day). A tiny visible foot and hand in the night shot say there's at least one baby under there, better protected but also dead. In the day view, the kids have been re-arranged for no clear reason; the older boy has had his whole upper body tucked back between the woman's legs in daylight (note also her hand has moved off his knee), and it's now the baby's head alone that's visible, laid atop the boy, it seems, mostly hidden between her legs (visibly, beheading could also be possible, but that seems a bit much considering how little the scene has changed). It could be the original arrangement was set-up too, with victims still oozing blood, to add emotional drama. --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:44, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Reuters: "Ahmad found bodies belonging to the (Biassi - here Biyasi) family in one small room; a mother and her three daughters and young son, who was at the local school with Ahmad's children. "They were leaning on each other," Ahmad recalled." Aside from missing the baby, this sounds like the same scene. This SCDV list for the Fattough-Biassa family (with the three girls shown above) is a near fit. A mom, three daughters, a son (Hamza - age one), and two similarly named adult males (if killed elsewhere). But again, one would be missing, this time the older, more visible son. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:23, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Another Domestic Scene
As brought up on another page, another video of greater proportions claims to be from al-Bayda as well: Ugliest massacres between Naseer in Beida c village 2 + + +18. Copied conversation from there, further analysis in time:

It may be that this family has the three dead girls shown in photos. One of the girls in the bed has a long cut on her arm. No blood, could have been inflicted post mortem. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:50, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Them all dying just sitting there, so many, makes a bit more sense with inescapable gas. And there are some very bloody injuries, but many others as you point out not bleeding. Not sure how long a body has to be dead to not bleed from a cut. A head-shot, of course, will be bloody no matter what. I see small hole in the neck (0:37), larger hole in the jaw (0:45) in the jaw and under the chin, deep shoulder gash and two elbow injuries (0:55), all fairly visible and non-bloody. There's a pregnant woman, not at the moment cut open. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:32, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

The "pregnant woman, not at the moment cut open" was mentioned in this connection; rebel body-dragger and witness, "Omar" from Ras al-Nabi', cited among the horrific sights he saw in Bayda, "a fetus ripped from a woman’s belly," as the New York Times reported. Bad stuff. Not at all clearly the same victim(s) - perhaps two pregnant women were among the 70 or so killed. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:32, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

I finally analyzed this scene to where I can say how many bodies there are: exactly 19 visible, possibly more, but they say 20, so I will too. There is a big black dome the first woman leans on. That's not a huge woman slumped over, is it? This including 9 children they say. I too count 9 smaller people without headscarves, 10 larger ones with. A lot of women, some surely being older daughter of some of the matriarchs we see here. I have no solid guess on names yet, but the rebel narration says “Assad forces have killed 20 people from one family.” That all but require they be part of the Biassi clan and/or those married in. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:46, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

The left-right pan has mostly women (seven, I count) at first. The last (0:30), purple dress, on chair, head back, hole in throat, next to the first child seen (0:35), described by the rebel narrator as “a mother and her child.” that is a small boy, perhaps about two years old, red shirt, hanging over the chair face down, blood dripping on the floor beneath (his or his mom's?) This seems to be the only boy shown (and there are no outright babies included - he's as young as they get). --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:46, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

There are two women and three girls, it seems, at the other end of the room pan (1:07-1:22). --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:46, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

In between is perhaps the most interesting span, along a couch: five girls and no sons attributed to one woman, the eighth one shown. A toddler aged about 2 (??not sure how good I am with ages) in yellow and white, 0:43, seated closest to mother's face. The older girls are all behind her. First perhaps 9 years old, in red, small hole in left jaw edge, and another under the chin. Two girls in mostly purple dresses and aged around 6-7 lay, face-to-face and somewhat embracing. (0:53)The one to the right has injuries to the left arm - at the elbow a (bullet?) hole, at the shoulder a horrible deep slice. Beyond them an older girl, perhaps 10-12, white/yellow dress/gown, curled up head unseen, left arm injury. As for their mother, we see her face (0:43) - wearing glasses, good sized hole in left jaw edge. At 1:00 we see that she's the fully pregnant woman too: “a pregnant mother, and her child and five children,” the narrator says. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:46, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Opposition propaganda site Syrian Revolution Digest passed on claims of the al-Bayda massacre supported by video, one of which was "a local lawyer and her 5 children were killed," followed by a link to this video. So a pregnant female liberated lawyer, and her five feminist, devil tinged offsrpring, were all snuffed out. Couldn't help she was also apprently related to the pro-government Imam. And as we started out noting, one Salafist rebel says a pregnant woman was opened and the baby "torn out." (the first boy? They were really curious) The sense that these people weren't killed right here persists. The whole scene feels posed/arranged like an art piece to increase the drama. That kind of callous management does not bode well considering how well field executing a fetus would play to the same end - it was not documented anywhere on Youtube or Facebook that I'm aware of, but perhaps circulating in narrower circles, among certain Wahabbi/Ikhwan types as proof their contributions are not in vain. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:46, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

In one of the image lists I was slow to peruse, dear god,a field executed fetus, claimed, wrapped, and documented by rebels. No natural birth this, too undeveloped - somewhere allegedly in the Baniyas massacres mix, it was torn from a womb by someone - by Shabiha, Islamo-nihilist rebels, whoever was in charge of those bodies, quite likely this same pregnant one filmed by rebels in the pre-dawn dark. Sickening stuff. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:16, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The size of the fetus seems to me consistent with the far-along pregnancy of the seventh woman. Also it occurred to me this is the 20th person killed, I guess, if that's what they meant. --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:22, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Putting this back alongside the account of "Omar, of nearby Ras al-Nabeh" to the New York Times is rather strange. Either this woman in the video must be a second pregnant woman from the one cut open, or Omar's not telling it like it happened, or possibly some other options. He says he "helped Bayda residents pick up bodies, placing 46 in two houses and the rest in a mosque, then had run away." Chances are, this house/mosque wherever with 20 women and children is one of the three scenes he means to describe. That would mean this pregnant woman and her five daughters were first killed in the street and then dragged by Omar (and/or others, with him counting) to these positions. Therefore, the cut open pregnant woman he remembered, or rather "a fetus ripped from a woman’s belly" with the woman not mentioned or photographed to my knowledge in that state, must be another one he found that way, not this one, unless ... --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:22, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

The Curbside victims
I'm getting a very slow start here, but there are obviously also the shoeless victims executed on the curbside in that rather dramatic sloping spot. What would be helpful here is getting a time stamp on the images available. That requires site identification and some shadow reading. Also, a best visual count on the number, dress and character of, and other clues to the victims. For which an image list is most useful. I plan to this weekend or so. And/or, just compile reports.

My cursory look suggests there is one video and one photo of this scene. Between them, I count twelve victims of mostly head injuries, shoes removed for Islamist execution, all fighting age males, teenaged to middle-aged. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:13, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
 * A later-published video Petri pointed out adds detail to the victims; there seem to be 13 men here, not 12, the one at the top almost could be Sheikh Omar, and the hefty guy in black may have his eyes gouged out (0:09). --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:43, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

The video offers a wider view, stitched into the image below. We can't even be sure if the left side is vacant or occupied by a building. Depending on time of day, the visible wall with these unique features could face any combination of north, east, or west. Note the shadow of the building is fairly long - suggests something before or after mid-day, depending on the unknown height of the buildings, etc. . Coming next, a location. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:13, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Open questions:
 * Who were these guys? Who says what, and how much sense does it make, etc.? --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:04, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

One of the younger victims, apparently a teenage boy of about 16, in the second video at 0:14-0:16. Note his black shirt with circular design, splayed legs in low-riding jeans, turned face with nasty wound on the right jaw. As established, this pile was seen at both noon and sunset on May 3. What seems the earliest view of this victim, laid out alone, is the second photo in a mini-slidehow by sectarian propaganda activists, only on June 2. "Children slaughtered at the hands of the Alawite bands" in the massacre of "the village of al-Bayda." Photo taken in the dark, presumably pre-dawn, dead on the ground next to a football (soccer ball), perhaps staged to appear he was killed while playing. It seems he had his arms and legs tortured somehwere, and was then killed here - much blood flows. From the darkness on his right jaw/neck below the ear, as we can see in daylight. The face, shirt, and that wound make him perhaps recognizable in a high-res, close-up photo of a boy with that area on the left side torn fully open somehow (see here, if prepared for a horrible sight). However, that would mean both sides of his upper neck behind the jaw were destroyed like this - two bullet exit wounds? Rough treatment. He's laid out about the same way in the video, as if the other victims were piled up around him. But this is a second placement, I think. Otherwise, his blood in the first photo would run the other way on the pavement, and the ball definitely would have rolled away on this infamous slope. --Caustic Logic (talk) 05:26, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Football Boy

Location?
Location: narrowing down. Another report, al-Ikhbariya I think (right), has a long shot of these men from the other direction (I noticed it skimming This video, at time stamp 4:10). Again for reference, here's the Google Maps link for al-Bayda. It's not the mosque. I think we're looking north or northeast in the early-mid afternoon. Not finding a match yet, though. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:35, 27 May 2013 (UTC) Then the fuller Ikhbariya video at better resolution was found, yielding the much more useful composite view above. --Caustic Logic (talk) 05:26, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Locating this spot on the map would be useful, and I've tried with many maybes, but nothing that seemed to match all features. I suppose it's best to spell these out and ask for second opinions, etc. All the later-published video adds to the above images is to tell us the uphill end of the building has grass, not a driveway, next to it. As for the above images, Al-Ikhbariya's view and the rebel video panorama, looking the opposite direction, the same pole at the downhill corner can be seen in both. The space after that appears open in both views, with the panorama suggesting a building a ways off. Looking uphill, the road can be seen bending further up, towards the left/behind the building. Near the pole is a tall tree, and we have a second face with some detail visible, this side with arched balconies. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:43, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm making a graphic of the scene at different rotations, but handily, we have two different shadows to work with. Al-Ikhbariya's view shows a shaded side but no real building shadow, saying the sunlight is coming on about their line of sight. The panorama has the whole road and visible side in shadow, meaning a lower sun. That could mean later afternoon, but I'm suspecting early morning. That would make this road run roughly east-west. Ikbariya's sun would then be late afternoon, near sunset. It seems higher up than that, however. I tried solar noon, makes the other view no existing time, sun from almost due north. Graphic when I work out the details and think a bit more. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:43, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

(deleted content was here, all resolved, check history if you're that curious) --Caustic Logic (talk) 05:26, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

The new Ikhbariyah video and composite view I just added from it help clarify the scene greatly. Other scenes in their video suggest this is an early video, before solar noon (sun slightly east) but near it, as the straight-down tree shadow suggested. That means they're looking north or perhaps a tad northeast, not east or west. One spot I passed over before now pops out as likely. See here on Google maps - just north of the burning van at the city square, just south of the mosque. For this to fit, the building apparently must have been built onto, the west side expanded a bit to run right up to the street instead of leaving a green patch. Otherwise it's a total match, shows signs of fire inside, and might be a good place for the imam of the mosque to live. So this is far from 100%, but the best match I can see so far. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:05, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Before I even posted, it's 100%. I checked Google Earth. The current imagery on GM is from April 5, 2010. There's a June 18, 2010 one, same space on the west, less green. The space starts about at the tall tree. Then, October 5, 2011 (latest shown) it's different -an addition starting at the tree fills in the space, leaving nothing but a narrow sidewalk between the house and the street. That's the sidewalk, been there less than three years. We have enough now to start a map of the core area. Cool. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:05, 20 July 2013 (UTC)


 * This would make the activist video from the scene near sunset, light from the NNW, covering the street and a stretch to the south. The bodies apparently sat there for a long time, unguarded or semi-guarded, before whatever local activists, not rebel fighters apparently, snuck up and made that video. The photo is apparently from a similar time, showing no sunlight info, it seems to be fully in the building's lengthening shadow. --Caustic Logic (talk) 05:26, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Smashed-Head Victims
These were quite visible proof of heinous brutality - several bound men executed, apparently, by having their heads smashed in with bricks and such. This too needs an entry. Nothing for it yet. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Way behind here. One quick thought: It would be easier to smash peoples' heads this widely in one spot if they were already dead. Post-mortem mutilation to make the crimes look even worse are always possible. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

It seems there is no rebel footage of this scene, and no video at all. Member Petri Krohn's expansive Youtube playlist doesn't seem to have any such raw video, only videos including some of the available photos. These seem to be taken by SAA troops or pro-government activists. A good number of these are included in this list of photos compiled at Facebook, for both massacres. Most (like this one) and othersnear the top, and two others further down, bear the Tartous Today stamp, a sailing ship. (this useful view doesn't). This does not include this bloody scene or similar on pavement -those are either among the curbside victims, or other. The smashed-heads were on dusty dirt, scrub and debris around, surely by a road. Almost no scenery clues, apparently photographed in later afternoon, mid-length shadows, several hours after their smashing here; they're a little bit dried. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:09, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Most views are too close up to allow an easy correlation and count. At least 12 dead bare minimum, probably 15-20 or more total. Some older teenagers, otherwise adult, most young - "fighting age" describes them, but the clothes seem totally civilian. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:09, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Finally, video! This video (from which channel?) includes a brief cut of this scene or one extremely like it. (1:13-1:22). By the long pan, I can say there are at least 17 men here. There's still no details to place it, aside from the minimum size of this empty lot. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:58, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Othman Family?
Video: 1شام بانياس البيضا مجزرة بحق المدنيين العزل 3 5 2013 تحذير الفيديو قاسي جداً جـ (Cham Banias Beida massacre against unarmed civilians, 3 5 2013 Warning very tough video C1) (note: I was unable to save a copy of this one) This shows four grown men and an older teenage boy, apparently executed, mostly wrapped in blankets (brought here from other rooms/elsewhere). They're all in civilian clothes, interior shot (in a home?), apparently in the dark hours. The first man shown died from a head shot, wearing a black headscarf with Arabic writing (?) that makes him look kind of like a rebel (the others don't). Another man was shot in the lower throat (0:39). An older, shirtless, man had the back of his head blown apart (0:29). --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:18, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

As for the boy (0:15), he's an interesting case. The massive pool of blood behind his head suggests he was killed on this floor, by a gunshot to the head. (inset, top) But he's been seen elsewhere in an activist photo, laid next to a wall on gravel outside, in broad daylight. His blood is smeared on the wall as if he slumped over dead - or was carelessly dropped/carefully tossed - right there (inset, bottom). That there's no blood behind his head here suggests the latter. Rebels are moving bodies. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:18, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The Revolting Syrian, Why Assad Did It, shows this picture wrongly captioned "A young boy executed in the street." --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:27, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

This handy infographic relates that much clearer image with details on the victim, given as Ahmad Othman, "a child who loved FC Barcelona and soccer was his passion. in almost all of his pictures," including this one, "he appeared wearing the club’s t-shirt." This Barcelona team thing is of course some kind of Qatar-rebel calling card (sorry, vague on that myself); his laying there dead in that shirt supports the impression that the killers were out to punish rebel-minded Sunnis, then leave the evidence behind for those same to photograph, while trying to deny it and blame "terrorists." Of the massacre, this re-telling says "more than 400 civilians were killed" in "one of the worst crimes in current century" and "It is widely believed that Assad’s death squads performed this genocide to ethnically cleanse the area of the west coast of any opposition movement." --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:18, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * On the stricken part: The Qatar/Barcelona link is sometimes spun that way, and might suggest rebel sympathies, but I hear the team is also popular in the Arab world at large, among government loyalists in Syria as well as opponents. --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:28, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

See also: Ahmad Mohammad Othman SCDV entry: age 15, same image. All else is standard (civilian, field executed, May 2, same notes, same three general videos used for all victims). As noted elsewhere, Othman is one of the several families targeted in Bayda and again in Baniyas. Per the SCDV's list, young Ahmad was killed with three adult males of the Othman family, while a fourth was listed as killed the two days later in Ras al-Nabi'. This comes close to explaining the video scene of Ahmad plus four men, and setting the location as the Othman home. That the one (extra?) man looks a bit like a rebel could mean he was shot down in self-defense, and that would make "unarmed civilians" yet another error in that video's title. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:18, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: I checked the other Othmans, and they give no details. Age 0 means no data. No pictures or notes to establish (even alleged) relationships here. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:37, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Three Charred Men
"Ahmad" (alleged survivor) told an unnamed correspondent with Reuters, right in al-Bayda, that "before dark set in," he "stumbled upon another chilling sight" in the long string he described, all matching nicely with publicized videos he almost seems to just be describing. "Three charred bodies lay one on top of the other. "Smoke was still rising from one of them," he said. How on earth can you know details like that unless you had just barely survived the massacre, were there for some other reason, or saw some photos online? Included in this horrible collection of images at Free Syrian Army.com (If there's a Join us" link, DON'T click it!) is a photo of three partly charred bodies, all it seems still smoldering energetically (there are two other included photos of this trio, cited below). It seems they had stopped burning just minutes before this opposition photo, and in fact like they hadn't started burning too long before that. The fuel used might have come in small containers with yellow caps. I say small because two caps can be seen in this one small area. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 29 June 2013 (UTC) The body on the right seems least burnt/most clothed, it seems. Laid face-down, this other shot, apparently at night, suggests his face was previously ... messed up, maybe burned. The body on top has a rather horrifying face visible in an alternate view (the spam filter here prevented a link direct, but it's the third one down). His head is bald and his face looks unusual, possibly deformed in some way, as well as aged, problems that predated his brutal slaying. Reuters added the three "were identified the next day, when the Red Crescent came in with a government official. One of the charred victims was Ibrahim al Shoghri, 69, who was mentally disabled." This is perhaps not unlike the second teenage boy murdered in June by Islamists in Aleppo for religious crimes. This one, they did "because of the deformation in one of his eyes, claiming that God inspired them to do so," taking him for the one-eyed "antichrist" (the Dajjaal). (And by the blur, they killed him badly, mutilating his face) But here, of course, it was Shabiha-types killing those apparently polluted with demons and interfering with God's blessings on the Sunnah. Both views of this victims clarify he suffered at least three nasty slices by a blade to his upper head. Crisscrossing, they came perhaps one before he fell, and two after. His right eye also seems to have been gouged out. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 29 June 2013 (UTC)


 * How did I miss this? A video of that scene (sorry if link is redundant). Pretty graphic, decent resolution, night-time, before or after the day shot, not sure. The lover victims is more visible, also apparently a gaunt older bald-headed man, naked at least from the waist up. Here the bodies look more severely burned, but maybe that's my imagination. Odd this is, they're smoking intensely, once again, just put out. At two points, hours apart, they just getting done burning. Both times, rebels there to film it. That, my friends, is a huge red flag. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:53, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

April 14, 2011 roundup
Looking for something else, I came across this: activist videos of a April 14, 2011 raid on al Bayda. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 04:22, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hezbollah leader: Most Syrians believe in al-Assad – CNN's Arwa Damon on video
 * Protester who exposed lies at the heart of Syria's regime
 * I remember seeing video from that, same square we're studying, dozens of men bound and laid face-down. Soldier-types sometimes stood on them and jumped up and down. It was on a list of videos I was slapped with of gov't brutality, and the only one I felt was genuine and not fake. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:13, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * CNN shows some activist video (in thumbnail size) from April 16th, used to establish the that the roundup scene was genuine and happened in al Bayda. They do this by giving the viewer a tour of the central square. We have very little footage from the scene and many things still need to be placed on the map, including the cafeteria with the 30 burnt bodies. We should find this video for reference. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 11:35, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Apart for searching videos for the name linked above, here is something to start with: -- Petri Krohn (talk) 11:46, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Found it: here. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 12:09, 21 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Ahmad Biasi
 * Ahmad البياسي 1
 * Ahmad Biasi one egg detainees (More original)
 * Ugarit Orient || the hero martyr Ahmed البياسي -- Petri Krohn (talk) 12:09, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Relation to our pro-government imam, reported former rebellion supporter? Possibly. Same as this Ahmad Bayasi of Banyas, "non-civilian," rank: "SFA" (sic) Died by shooting, 2012-09-18, in Aleppo: Amirya. Maybe he should have accepted that warning from April 2011? --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:04, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Months after his death, about a week after the 2-year mark of his incident in the square (if all the same guy), and a week before the Biassi family at large would be targeted, one informed Facebook account on April 22 posted, for no stated reason, this reminder: Shaheed Ahmed Biasi Banias Type the name of a martyr. An Ehab Byassi with a FB account responded, mentioning a martyr in Damascus (?). --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:00, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
 * From the same site: This post reporting the arrests in the al-Bayda square, where Ahmed Biassi was humiliated, as being in square Biassi. Not just a fluke: in this post, "Arrest all youths of house Biassi in the Square Biassi."

I also hear it was at this time that Sheikh Omar was reported dead and denied it. I've been looking for reports to that effect (I hear they were on Facebook) but nothing yet. Two links from mid-April 2011, same or similar content, with the name Biassi. April14: http://www.syriakurds.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23717 April 12? http://www.odabasham.net/show.php?sid=44687: "Arrests made against dozens of Syrian citizens, and knew them: Said Osman - Abdul Razzaq al-Zeer (60 years) - Ahmed Zaator - Mohamed Adnan Biasi ..." It goes on and on, dozens of names, most of them familiar to me - al-Shoghri, Taha, Tyba, Hamouda, Othman, Yassin, Qaddour, Daaboul, Nmoura, Lolo, all appear, names that would later appear for the two massacres in 2013. Many Biassis, but not sheikh Omar that I see - there's one Mohammad Omar Biasi (a son?), and also the ill-fated Mohammed Mustafa Biasi. What the hell is going on here? --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:55, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Like, No Rebels
Here I'd like to collect statements of a lack of rebel fighter/terrorists in these areas capable of either carrying out massacres or of inviting any kind of fight. They will be made to look silly. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:10, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Ruther Sherlock et al., The Telegraph reported: "The attack was the first of its kind in this area. Local activists told the Daily Telegraph that though the town had declared itself "liberated", its "rebel battalions" had consisted of only 14 men." While later sources would acknowledge the clash with "Shabiha" rebels won that morning, killing 7 and capturing 30 or so, this report doesn't mention it at all. Instead, they heard, "the violence was revenge for rebel attacks (from other twons?) on government troops in a neighbouring area four days previously that had resulted in the death of several soldiers." Also, Imam Baissi is not mentioned in any way.


 * Noor Barotchi: “To give a little background on Banyas, where widespread massacres started a few days ago: it’s a coastal city in Western Syria that has a Sunni population and that is surrounded by Alawite villages. There were no rebel fighters in this region. Civilians are being ethnically cleansed for the sole crime of their religion."


 * New York Times heard about the supposed rebel fighters the government says it battled: "The activist in Baniyas, Abu Obada, said security forces had told people to gather in the square, and some Bayda villagers, fearing a massacre, attacked them with weapons abandoned by defectors. Other residents disputed that or were unsure because they had been hiding." Just reg'lar people, picking up weapons tossed aside by the defectors, who had been there, who the military came to detain when someone ambushed and killed and captured them, who then fled and left their weapons, as ordinary people tried to fight but were massacred. Got it.  --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:10, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Side-note: more on the defectors from NYT: "residents said they often helped defecting soldiers escape, a pattern they believe set off the violence. Activists said that on May 2, around 4 a.m., security forces came to detain defectors, and were ambushed" by ... "Bayda villagers," with "weapons abandoned by defectors?" --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:35, 31 May 2013 (UTC)


 * The Revolting Syrian, May 6:
 * Assad’s forces announced on May 2 that they were going to enter the neighborhoods, which they already control and which have no FSA whatsoever, to ‘cleanse’ the area from ‘infiltrators’ and ‘armed gangs’.


 * Syrian Youth Org via Arab Worlds blog, May 6, per H.A.N:
 * (The 10 AM attack) killed three members of the Free Army and the escape of the other two. (For five total?)

Early Clashes
This probably deserves a section to sort out the details. I think it should go here. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:52, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Seized Arms?

 * A unit of the armed forces seized two weapons' warehouses in a raid against terrorists' dens in al-Bayda village in Banias, Tartous. An official source told SANA that the seized weapons included machineguns, automatic rifles and RPG charges, a pump-action and up-to-date communication devices and ammos. The source added that units of the army killed numbers of terrorists in al-Marqab and al-Bayda villages and Ras El-Nabe' neighborhood in Banias city.

Where are the Shabiha?
Opposition reports seem to acknowledge there was an engagement in which they killed some pro-government militiamen earlier on May 2. Don't they? Do they show the bodies? Does the government side? Are they the 20-ish that were somehow charred after the army apparently had access in the early afternoon? Is this batch of 20-30 dead included in the rebel total? Properly assigned or re-branded as local Sunni civilians? These I suggest we consider and paste quotes we see here, as they come up. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:05, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Numbers (I was vague): The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported "earlier clashes today between rebels and regime forces, leading to the death of 6 regime forces and the injury of no less than 20 others, no reports yet on the number of rebels killed.'' German press agency DPA heard "Activists said troops attacked al-Bayda after a bus carrying pro-regime militants, known as Shabiha, was attacked, killing at least seven and wounding more than 30." Opposition news thing Saned N.N. (translated) heard Shabiha entered and engaged rebels, who "killed 30 Shabiha." Open questions: Did the injured ones escape, or were they captured? And did they survive their capture? Are they counted among the reported 50-100+ killed?--Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Syriatruth.org reported that "gunmen" in al-Bayda "ambushed" someone, but also "searched the village and besieged and took 40 of them hostage," or "kidnapped 40 soldiers." The highest numbers, from rebels, say about 40 total - 7 killed at the starts, 30+ ... not dead. The taking of these "prompted the army to assign imam" (see above) "to negotiate with the gunmen for the release of the hostages, but they refused to do so," killed the Imam and his family and sister's family, some say, and probably the 40 or so soldiers. And that right there is over 50 dead, in a "massacre" that would also involve a number of killed rebel fighters, and perhaps nine additional soldiers, in a supposed massacre of 50-100+ --Caustic Logic (talk) 02:04, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Here is a video I have not seen before: Regime forces executed more than 150 people in Beida by Orient News, uploaded to YouTube on May 2nd, most likely at 21:50 UTC. It show "shabiha" arriving in al Baida in a white bus and two white minibuses. At the end of the video there is a scene of revolutionaries being rounded up at the central square. This footage may however be from 2011, as stated by this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS9wMiuUnSE Massacre to Banias again ... History repeated!?] -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:35, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Arrests, Verified and Not
One aspect of the al-Bayda events that we've glossed over so far is the arrest of numerous men there after security forces "restored order." It would be helpful to cover this as well and consider it in relation to the rest. Activist/witnesses allege that men and boys were taken out of their homes and executed on the street. Men are seen in photos marched into vehicles by security forces, shirts pulled over their heads. Some purported massacre victims and wound up with shirts that way. Others wound up worse. So were the men we saw taken away, or taken away earlier, later brutally executed? Or did a terrorist massacre precede these arrests on suspicion of involvement? Has anyone made a victim-to-victim match to illustrate the first option? --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:12, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Syrian Street (sy-street.net - Arabic language) ran a report on May 2 featuring one photo of detained men, at least 20, being marched, hands behind their heads, as an armed soldier watches. "Dozens of militants" were killed in the operation, the report says, "as dozens of them surrendered the Army," who also seized "large quantities of weapons." The report also shared the infamous photo of executed men in the square (see below)

One page of especially horrific images - Fatakat.com forum, May 2, has an emphasis on children, including the unborn, in images not visible elsewhere (and not for certain from the Baida massacre). It's also a place where the arrest pictures are to be found. These are labeled صورة قبل المجزرة البشعه - Image before massacre. Provably false. As the timeline clues below show, the massacres happened before the sun was up. Both images are from mid-day. The second has a better chance of being placed on the map. I may try later.--Caustic Logic (talk) 09:52, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * the one SyStreet had, same stamp
 * [https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/197758_497881510265226_1431111437_n.png video still, men with shirts over heads, marched out of some building.
 * Monatge image, soldiers involved in the arrests following the massacres. Label translated: "A picture of some of the Shabiha who ارتكبو massacre God curse them." ارتكبو did not parse, but I suspect it doesn't mean "responded adroitly to." --[[User:Caustic Logic|Caustic Logic] (talk) 09:52, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Soldier celebration photo: I suspect this at least is misplaced. It must be May 2 or earlier, but might be from Baniyas city or elsewhere. It looks too flat, open, and palm-fringed to be this packed little hilltop town al-Bayda. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:52, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

The Burned People/Scene Analysis
There is a photo from activist sources of around 20 bodies partly burnt is an unlit room. This was posted by Yallasouriya, for one, as "Other picture of AL Bayda's massacre," but only on May 4. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights on May 5 published a video of the same bodies, in the same room, all un-burnt and nicely lined-up, also in opposition activist possession. This was, as usual, from the camera phone of one of the soldiers involved, in the raid on Thursday (the 2nd). He wasn't killed, apparently; the video was "leaked" to the activists. The room looks somewhat clinical. The bodies are apparently all adult males. "Footage has been leaked from the camera of a regular soldier who participated in the storming of al-Beyda village on Thursday. The footage shows the bodies of more than 20 people killed in the village, information indicates they were summarily executed." Some are possibly rebel fighters, some apparently not. My guess is not. The soldiers seen in this military zone look semi-convincing, mostly in fatigues, like soldiers or defectors minus jihadists. Some motorcycles, some head-scarves, but otherwise .... They're torching another place already. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:33, 21 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, I have seen these, plus a video of the burnt bodies. All in the same place. Rebel sources claim the "unburnt" video was first published in pro-government site. It should by possible to find the location based on the video.
 * Here is one scenario: The soldiers are SAA. The dead men are executed "shabiha". One body has been dragged out, possibly by SAA. Rebels later counterattack and torch the bodies to destroy evidence. There is some precedence to this. The SAA had control of the main square on al Baida. The white wan was later torched, possibly with bodies in it. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 17:03, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That makes sense. Other than the last part, with ease. I'm not sure how Shabiha sent to raid a weapons cache are supposed to dress these days, and these guys look pretty civilian. And maybe they were .... sorry, behind. But the number is pretty good to explain the 30 "Shabiha" in the bus, and the second burning van right across the way explains the "bus." Except, it's not right across the way, necessarily. The video cuts this into three distinct scenes. The first (the alley with the splayed-legs corpse) could be placed, not done yet. The place with the bodies, I fear cannot be easily placed. If we had a time and clear sun direction to narrow it down, possible. And the final sequence is in that same central square, starting just about in front of the building (city hall?) those bodies were seen at, looking north, turning right to look east down the square. The exact building with the burning van doesn't look right from space at any time, but must be the one right on the corner there. Everything else fits. That makes it early afternoon, around 2 pm as well, shadows short, with SAA in control. So, yeah... should be a legit video.  --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:28, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Placed the first scene. Pause at 0:18. We're on the central square, looking north up the north street. The burning van to the right is the same one just off the square, in that apparent dipped-down garage-place. To confirm, you'd see the mosque looking up that street. Faintly behind the wall in the center of frame, its minaret. Current Google Maps images (Apr 2010) show the right face of the building across from the alley with the burning car (0:14-18). Three big "windows," two little ones below, visible ramp alongside other half. All close to each other, I'm guessing the (nail salon?) the dead guys are piled at is also nearby. Note further smoke near or north and west of or at the mosque. Petri, can you get proper grabs here? --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Same exact view.--Caustic Logic (talk) 12:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)


 * For identifying places this video is helpful. It shows a tour of main square. There are a total of 4 burnt vans, all seen on this video. The killed shabiha video is also from the same spot. The four bodies have been removed from the square. We cannot quite see if they have been thrown into the white wan, still unburnt. Notice the bloodstains on the pavement. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 05:34, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * P.S. – Earlier I thought that the square might have functioned as a temporary morgue, with killed rebels brought to the site, possibly for removal with the white pickup wan. I have now changed my mind. With the 20 bodies of the shabiha so close, it is likely they are from the same lot. It is also likely the 30 shabiha arrived in the four white vans (2 minibuses and 2 pickups). The vans are placed next to each intersection on the square, one more reason to believe they were part of some government security operation. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 06:12, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * P.P.S. – No, this does not make sense considering your "no bodies" timestamp below. I find it however extremely unlikely that the "regime" would have executed these people on the spot at 2 pm, when both international TV and the rebels had their cameras zoomed in on the square. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 06:16, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Hyundai Porter pickups
This BBC video from al-Qusayr shows security forces driving exactly the same white pickup. The white pickup in al Baida has some marking on the door. At first I thought it might be a logo for the outfit using the pickups, but in fact it is just marketing decorations for the model of Hyundai Porter pickups. I similar pickup is seen in this photo from Aleppo. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 02:26, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Very cool add. Looks like a pretty good match. I haven't the inclination to identify technical things, vehicles, weapons, Brown Mosesey stuff. But it is cool to have, and will be added to the article I'm wrapping up. A handy link to our uploaded wide-view image (good call) would help here. I forget how to do that, however and need to get back to that article. --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:41, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Two similar pickups in this video by Qusair Media Center of rebels / civilians fleeing al-Qusayr. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:09, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Video Proof of SAA executions?

 * YallaSouriya 9:51 pm on May 3, 2013 – Translating this YouTube video: Expose the killers: a full analysis of the massacre of Banias - Beida (+18) Warning
 * Video shows what happened at Bayada and how the regime distorted the truth
 * Sama TV reporter’s Haytham Youssouf explains tha there was an gunfire exchange between armed a group hidden near the mosque minaret and the trees (the nature is entertwined with the village) and both the syrian army and snipers. He explains, that the Syrian army was able to enter the village from the school square and the second school square. The syrian army combed the area
 * ''1:01: “We hope that Bayda will be finished today, the army and the National defense are ready’'
 * Then the camera shows the army entering from the church with a brick roof, and in the back ground there are clashes between the trees who were set on fire. Residents have stayed indoor –
 * Then a series of pictures showing the killing in the square as filmed by Sama TV.
 * The second part of the video shows how the regime has used these pictures, adding arms and moving bodies around


 * YallaSouriya tags: bayada baida banyas

Watched this video with only the on-screen Arabic. I gathered the Jeesh Arabi Souri (Syrian Arab Army) was in control of the area down there and cleaning up. One of their trucks is shown with no dead bodies behind it. In another view (before? after?), those few famous men, apparently executed, lay behind the truck. So either the SAA was killing men there in the open after they took control, or picking up previously killed people in that truck, depending on image order (can be established!). And if the SAA executed those guys (it's possible), maybe they also bashed in those other guys' heads with bricks, etc. Ominous repetition of who was in control down there now. At first, I was going to write that it strongly suggests field executions by the SAA of possibly rebel fighters. But all I'll say is that's possible. Connecting this to all the rest of what happened, extremely tenuous proposition, in whichever case.--Caustic Logic (talk) 09:11, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Petri, this seems to be the same footage you said elsewhere is filmed from a ridge west of town. I'm trying to get my bearings here. Can you identify this building, dead centered on GM? --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought from the view of the square and the road curving off to the left that thew was from the northeast. It seems so. View of this building, road curve, and distant (poultry farms?) says the view is about down that NE-pointing perimeter wall on this place. Filming spot? Is that light speck dead-centered there this water reservoir? --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Got my bearings, Petri, and pretty certain now. The building I asked you about is here. The April 5, 2010 imagery used for Google Maps is not a match, but on Google Earth, the later Oct. 5, 2011 imagery shows it's apparently been remodeled to match, with raised stairwell on the right side. The big two-building complex here on GM: I thought it almost must be the one I was looking for, despite no match, ridiculously speculating on a major re-model to one building... that, I realize, is visible in the video, lower left,  here, at 0:38, a distinct place on nearly the same line. So  yeah, we're looking west and southwest here. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:52, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

The above direction-setting will help establish solar angles and the timeline here. That, should go right below this, whoever does it first. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * My first look says both images -with and without the dad men -are from about the same time, not timed out but somewhat after noon, sun from the southwest. The prominent curved building face with the walkway has the tips of the walkway railing barely catching sun when there are no bodies (video 1:37) At 1:45, the other view, lower angle, apparently no sun hitting the corners. That suggests the sun has inched further west, so it's later. If so, that suggests the SAA did execute four guys there, in the open square. But that's a preliminary assessment, not at all certain yet. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

The shirts pulled over heads is not a proof of anything. It is easy to claim it proves that the killed men were captives and thus executed. However, every prisoner I have ever seen, in Syria or in Iraq captured by Americans has had the shirt pulled over the head from behind. The dead men on the square have the shirts pulled over their head from the front. I believe this is just to cover their faces, to let them rest in peace and to indicate to others that the men are truly dead and do not need medical attention. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 00:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * True, and I see the same thing in those shirts. And they have their shoes on too, partly at least. They could have run up shooting and been shot down in action right there, although I kind of doubt that. We might be seeing a technical war crime here. As for all the others ... different stories, each one. In fact, there are marked differences between these and the others that might help make an interesting case. And a side-note, I'm stumped on the close-up photo. Activist image from "The Syrian Revolution against Bashar Assad" to AP. The video shows a wide-cropped version that I cannot find so far on the Internet as a JPEG. I wonder really how they got it? Not the usual place for the usual activists to be filming. Just up one of these hills (will identify it and get time stamps), they were filming people with shoes removed and executed en masse. That's more usual. But here the army is in charge. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

(Note: Updated May 30) --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:20, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Here's the graphic. Azimuth (angles) approximate, using NOAA solar calculator, GMT +3 Here's the image, giving a time frame of about 1:50-2:10 PM, or around 15-25 minutes between images, killing at about 2 PM. Will double-check if I had the DST setting right, etc. Possibly should say an hour later. Either way, that's a small span, and a rather public spot to do this, a spot getting filmed by SANA just minutes before. Sure, you could make sure it's edited out, but there could be complications, best to just not let them see. But it's just enough minutes. It could be the movement we see there is connected to some captive rats being brought down the hill. Say, eight minutes later, perhaps, the commander verifies the news crew is done and gone, orders the rats exterminated right there. Maybe they were angry about the Imam and his family and other civilians being massacred and burned by these rats. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:54, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

To add, the wider version of the scene, and even wider: from Syriatruth. Might update the graphic now, with two reasons (I had DST wrong). --Caustic Logic (talk) 00:27, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Also to note, we've been citing four bodies, but the wider image I found clarifies there's a fifth body to the right, by the big (??) watermark, and more apparent soldiers taking a break along the north side of (city hall?). --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:39, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

I find it however extremely unlikely that the "regime" would have executed these people on the spot at 2 pm, when both international TV and the rebels had their cameras zoomed in on the square. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 06:16, 26 May 2013 (UTC) (to further the discussion, copied from above)
 * That's certainly an issue. Somehow, it seems there were no rebel videos from the ridges at this time, but there could have been (how likely?) and SANA could be coordinated with. Either way, what I see though is bodies appearing ... and seemingly killed there, at least one pretty clear head-blood-pavement sandwich, made-on-the-spot.. However, given the rebel talk of few/no rebel fighters, but locals who briefly took up "weapons abandoned by defectors" before getting massacred anyways, there is a fight suggested, perhaps with stupid last-ditch stuff, where guys would run up (all the way to right there, all four?) and get shot down (all right there?). Or something. I don't know, but my best guess is the simple one. If it looks like an execution, it probably was. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:39, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
 * ...stupid last-ditch stuff, where guys would run up and get shot down. Or something. You mean like the Chechen guy in Florida? Yeah, sometimes these wackos just need a bullet through their head.
 *  If it looks like an execution... face down: execution, face up: morgue. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 09:19, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * P.S. – Compare the positions of the bodies to this photo. Note the stretched out arms. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 09:38, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yep - arms outstretched, dragged mainly feet-first into place after execution elsewhere, stripped. None of them has 3/4 of a head full of blood under their heads in these spots. Clarifies the differences. :) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:39, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, very good. Looking closer, finally, at the picture, again: There is one - shirtless - who has that spray of blood AND he's face-down. The other four are on their backs or one on his side, looks like, and have shirts pulled over heads. Hmmm... odd sort of scattered morgue, no evident blood trail from dragging, etc. and one apparent on-site execution. Otherwise, face-up, no clear blood spray behind their heads. Wait ... checking again the video: on his side guy looks old, gray-haired, shot down walking, more than executed (2:42) - he'd be #5 I guess, off to the right. Two of the face-up victims at 2:48: that is a lot of blood right behind their heads, isn't it? Still looks like executions to me. But that's SANA's camera getting so close, not just up on the ridge, so there's that problem again. Hmmmm. A bit confusing. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:12, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Just in case I forgot to mention it, it's entirely possible these five apparent civilian men were locals shot down by a hidden rebel sniper after SAA control. No soldiers would be shot because they want it to make them look bad. Instead, they might drop half the locals who come out to greet the soldiers, deliver tips about the rats, etc. I still think it looks like they were killed there, after SAA control. It's evidence of SAA executions, but not proof, as these other options can't be ruled out. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:11, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Fighting and Burning Timeline
This is confusing. May 3 news and activist videos - ostensibly all from the previous day, show different things burning/burnt and different bodies killed or dragged away, at different times.

Videos (for reference): Al-Ikhbariya - Al-Manar - "Loyalist video"

First, the white porter pickup seen in the main square; in most views it's un-burnt, in later views its been gutted by fire, all on the 2nd. Or is it the other way around? As mentioned above, it seems the un-burnt white truck had men shot behind it around 3 PM local time, set by sunlight on the stairs - there is none, as that whole west face is in the building's shadow. Al-Ikhbariya (0:35) seems earlier, 1:15-1:20 PM (light just scraping the city hall's west face, light across most of its front stairs, just before solar noon) but the truck has already been burnt. Al-Manar, similar view (5:25) - sun across the whole staircase, truck charred. So how is it un-burnt again hours later?

The leaked loyalist video, seeming at least a little bit later than the above, shows the back end of a un-burnt truck in about that spot (at 1:14), with at least four blood stains behind it where men were shot and dragged away (by whomever). So in fact, a burned truck must have been removed and a fresh one parked in its spot, after 1:20 but before 2:50 and before that loyalist video. Right? So which one had its back window shot out? (Al-Manar 6:25) Or, is this somehow an event spanning two days? And which truck in that spot was seen burnt in this photo published by SANA May 15th? --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:37, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * If you see see an unburnt truck at a later time of day than a burnt truck, then – by definition – the event spans two days. The burnt truck was never moved, it is still seen on photographs from two weeks later. (Gov: "People are welcome to return", linked somewhere on this page.) -- Petri Krohn (talk) 11:16, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Yes, linked right above, either the 15th or earlier. I'm not sure though if it's that clear. The basic position is a security checkpoint, a station at which the exact truck will vary. As I think you've noted, the satellite imagery from 2011 anyway has trucks parked in about the same spots at each end of the square. So it's possible they pushed one aside and drove in a new one. On the other hand, that is a bit odd toworry about that in the midst of a battle, especially with the same exact parking spot and angle, and for it to then be attacked and burnt again and, in the midst of returned calm peace-time, left un-replaced. And in fact I had someone recently tell me this massacre took place over two days, based on something I never did establish. Should ask back about that. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:41, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

And when was this visual tour video made? It says May 2, no sunlight information, so either dusk after all this, or pre-dawn before it. As Petri noted, all four security vehicles we see are burnt. The bodies in the square either have been removed and had their blood washed away, or they haven't been killed yet. Several buildings two have witnessed burning, but none seem to be on fire at the moment. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:37, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

The Map
I just spent a little time scanning the videos and trying to place where smoke is coming from, or has been, where the security vehicles are, a burning civilian car, the different bodies. This is the map so far. Any details needing worked out should be suggested below, and as needed I will update this. Using most recent, Oct. 2011 Google Earth imagery. Fire triangles point to the building or vehicle burnt. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:07, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Noteworthy Witnesses
(a select few anyway)

"Syrian Intelligence Officer"
Reuters filed a detailed report in late May after visiting al-Baida and meeting supposed experts. The author isn't named, but Oweis is my guess. The report said in part:
 * The Syrian government has kept silent about Baida. But a Syrian intelligence officer, speaking anonymously, acknowledged that the perpetrators were government loyalists, including some from the surrounding Alawite villages.

In more detail,
 * ...there is little doubt that details of the massacre are known among the ranks of Syrian intelligence. In Tartous, a hefty, tattooed man who works for state intelligence, "in the cyber security branch", and is a member of the pro-government Shabbiha militia, said his chain of command knew exactly what had unfolded in Baida and Ras al-Nabaa.
 * "It was the regime loyalists who did it, from the surrounding Alawite villages," said the official, who did not want to give his name. "But they were not acting under orders. They carried it out on their own accord."
 * "The leadership has all the names of the perpetrators, but now is not the time to punish them for the crime."

Well, that sounds possible. But I don't suggest taking at face value what conveniently hulking, tattooed, bearded "Shabiha", like the famous example shown in the inset image here, say is true. Surely he's not exactly the man the Reuters dupe spoke to, but I guess he was quite similar anyway. Others of this stripe speak of genocide against the Sunnis. This one sounds a little more nuanced. Here's what else he said on broader developments.
 * Asked if the idea of an Alawite state sounded viable to the intelligence community, he said the idea is often discussed. "But the leadership definitely rejects it. It would be the absolute worst case scenario, an independent Alawite-loyalist state," he said. "We'll have Homs, Damascus and the coast. (The rebels) can have Aleppo and Deir al-Zor, Qamishli and the north. Sure, let them have it." --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:00, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

"Ahmad"
This astute historian of the al-Bayda massacre, who lost a brother, spoke to Reuters, from his detailed notes, after rebels snuck the unnamed Reuters reporter (Oweis?) into Baydah. "Witness: Ahmad: Ahmad said in his modest but immaculately tidy home. He fetched from another room his notebook, where he had meticulously recorded in neat handwriting everything he saw." "I woke up to the sound of bullets before 7 a.m.," then shells. He had his wife and kids hide in the basement while he went upstairs to where his brother and mother lived. His mother ugerd her sons to hide in the attic "When the sound of gunfire kept getting closer," and Ahmed did, even though none of them did anything wrong. His fool brother remained, arguing that he had nothing to fear. His Naiivite was fatal. He heard the gunmen break in, "shouting insults and calling the family "dogs". Ahmad's sister-in-law said the gunmen told her husband to "bow to your god, Bashar" then dragged both away with their two teenage sons, "towards the village square."

After two hours, the shooting-noise whatever stopped and he ventured out. No cover-up, no more soldiers, just a dazed observer observing, like, everything, in every corner of town:
 * A few steps from his home, somewhere near the main village square, Ahmad discovered his brother's body. "He had been stripped of his clothes," he said, reading from his own record of what he saw. He paused and composed himself. "He had been shot in the head, and the bullet left a gaping hole the size of a hand. His blood had been shed on the ground." For almost 90 minutes, Ahmad described how he found torched bodies and evidence of mass killings: in one case 30 men, and in another, 20 women and children who had hidden in a small room.* He read out the names of the dead, their occupations, ages and relations to each other, and the positions of their bodies. The attack left dozens of his relatives and neighbors dead. Ahmad recorded every detail so that history might judge.
 * * There's only one video-supported scene like he describes, 20-ish women and children dead in a room, to our knowledge. Perhaps he refers to a different scene, but rebels usually like to explain just what we're seeing in their Youtube videos. And that scene emerged later, attributed to the Baniyas massacre. Wasn't it? --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:35, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * No, Bayda. Must be most of the massacred Biassies, all but the men, or perhaps other families represented. Scene analysis here. --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:04, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There was Sheikh Omar Biyasi, 62, whose body Ahmad found alongside the Sheikh's slain wife and son, Hamzah, a medical student. ... Ahmad found bodies belonging to the family in one small room; a mother and her three daughters and young son, who was at the local school with Ahmad's children. "They were leaning on each other," Ahmad recalled.

See Talk:Al-Bayda Massacre for visuals and thoughts on this scene.
 * Before dark set in, Ahmad stumbled upon another chilling sight. Three charred bodies lay one on top of the other. "Smoke was still rising from one of them," he said. They were identified the next day, when the Red Crescent came in with a government official. One of the charred victims was Ibrahim al Shoghri, 69, who was mentally disabled.

See here for visuals and thoughts on the charred men.

"Omar"
New York Times, May 14:
 * After dragging 46 bodies from the streets near his hometown on the Syrian coast, Omar lost count. … Omar, of nearby Ras al-Nabeh, the man who had dragged dozens of bodies from the streets, said he had helped Bayda residents pick up bodies, placing 46 in two houses and the rest in a mosque, then had run away, fearing the return of the killers. He said he had recognized some bodies, including the village sheik, Omar al-Bayassi, whom some considered pro-government. ... For four days, he said, he could not eat, remembering the burned body of a baby just a few months old; a fetus ripped from a woman’s belly; a friend lying dead, his dog still standing guard.

He, or he and others with him counting, "dragg[ed] 46 bodies from the streets," then "lost count" at 47, and kept dragging an unknown number past that. Must be more than one or two, or he'd say "about 48-50." That's a lot of dragging. --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:35, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

The only burned baby we can verify is supposed to have been killed in Baniyas, and the only pregnant woman we have a visual on is also supposed to be there, and wasn't cut open, at the time of the one rebel video anyway. There's a case here, far from conclusive, for some kind of massacre confusion that's a clue of deception. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:26, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * On the disturbing fetus story, and the prgnant woman apparently filmed in al-Bayda after all, see here).--Caustic Logic (talk) 14:35, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

H.A.N.
A Syrian activist group compiled a semi-detailed report in Arabic, with a mammoth list of 165 victims names, based on testimony of alleged witness H.A.N. ( ح . أ . ن ). By this version, it wasn't so much surrounding Alawite Shabiha that did the massacre as Christians from a village Marah ( المراح ) and/or a mountain ( العجمة ), with Muslim captives taken to a village alzubh ( الزوبة ) and burned alive. No mention is made of early clashes, with the first violence from 7-10 am, massacres from 10-2 PM, and rape after that. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:36, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Wikimapia: الزوبة (Alzubh) - المروج ("Murah" - Marah?) --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:36, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

or on Google Maps but not on Wikimapia, Al Mrah, just north of Bayda. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:13, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

SOHR Reports

 * May 2: Tartous province- Banias city:
 * ''There are reports of summary executions being committed by regime forces and pro-regime gunmen (Shabiha) in the village of al-Bayda, on the outskirts of the city, as testified by locals. the SOHr is yet to verify the deaths because of the regime control of the area and the cut off of communication there. Regime forces went on a raid and arrest campaign in the village, detaining 8 civilians, including 2 children, after storming the village. Mortars were launched onto the village during the storming. The area by the village was the site of earlier clashes today between rebels and regime forces, leading to the death of 6 regime forces and the injury of no less than 20 others, no reports yet on the number of rebels killed.
 * (as at Taldou, I suspect not enough to slow them down much as the massacres ensued) --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:41, 3 May 2013 (UTC)


 * May 2: Tartous province- Banias city:
 * There are several and conflicting reports on the number of people killed in the village of al-Bayda by regime forces and pro-regime gunmen from the nearby villages. Some testimonies indicate that more than 50 people were killed, including women and children, by summary execution, some were claimed to have been killed by knives, blunt objects and burning. Other reports put the number of dead higher, to more than 100. There are tens of villagers who have gone missing. Several houses were burnt and destroyed. It must be stated that the SOHR has not been able to verify the deaths, with full telephone and internet blockout in the village, which is under regime control.
 * We strongly urge the Red Cross and legal organisations to head to al-Bayda village to document and verify the level of death and destruction caused.
 * The city of Banias itself is witnessing a cautious calm after the gunfire and bombardment that took place in the southern neighbourhoods.
 * Violence in the Banias area is extremely worrying since its demographics easily lend to sectarian communal violence.


 * May 3 update
 * Tartous province: No less than 51 people were summarily executed yesterday by regime forces and Shabiha in the village al-Beyda, some were shot to death others were killed by knives, blunt objects or burning. The dead include women and children. Today regime forces and Shabiha have gone on a campaign of raiding many houses in the southern neighbourhoods of Banias, targeting particularly the houses inhabited by internally displaced refugees, and the owners of the houses being used by them. They are being taken away to the political security branch. The SOHR fears that another sectarian massacre would talk place in these neighbourhoods due to the intensity and nature of the conflict.
 * Early footage to be taken out of the village: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-EE96eCrUo


 * May 6 update:
 * Tartous province - Banias: The city and its surrounding area is witnessing calm, with no gunfire being heard, regime forces have also stopped raiding houses and detaining people. This comes days after 2 massacres were committed in the area: in the Ras al-Nabe' neighbourhood of Banias and in the village of al-Beyda.

May 16 update, Baniyas

 * SOHR May 16: 145 civilians (34 children, 40 women, 71 men) killed in the Banias massacre: Includes alleged details and a horrible photo of about 20 mangled bodies in a courtyard, including small children. I didn't even look at it yet - not in the mood. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Includes alleged details:
 * 145 civilians (34 children, 40 women, 71 men) killed in the Banias massacre
 * The SOHR has now documented 145 victims killed in the Banias massacre, this comes after receiving evidence proving that the dozens of civilians who were in the torched houses or under the rubble were secretly buried by the Syrian security forces.
 * The security forces and gunmen from the popular committees stormed the Ras al-Nabe' neighbourhood on the morning of 3/5/2013, which lies in the souther part of Banias, after the impoverished neighbourhood was violently bombarded causing the collapse and burning of several homes. It is then that they committed the massacre, many of the victims were summarily executed and some were killed with knives and blunt objects. The dead include 34 children (all under 16, some of them were babies and toddlers) and 40 women (including old women over 60). This massacre is considered to be one of the most horrendous war crimes committed by the Syrian security services and the pro-regime gunmen, since the victims were targeted for their religious background.
 * No flies! Photo would have to be taken soon after death.
 * Also of note is that there is no blood and no apparent cause of death. Looking at this picture alone, it is with in the realm of possibility that these people are facing death. (See below.) -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:11, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Petri, sorry, I got confused here. This is a scene from the later Baniyas massacre. Above we're talking May 2, al-Bayda, with this a bit mixed in. I think this clarifies why we need a separate page. If it turns out somehow it's all the same or whatever, still most people know this as two incidents. So unless you disagree, I propose taking this and some other stuff to a new page, interlinking the pages, and giving each and its numerous crime scenes and details some room to breathe. --Caustic Logic (talk) 20 May 2013


 * Ras al-Nabe' neighbourhood may be what SyrPer calls Al-Nabi' Quarter in Banyaas itself. This may clarify things a bit. But why is the the burnt-out van still on the central square on May 15th if life is "back to normal"? -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:32, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

DPA
Via Moon of Alabama: German news agency DPA reports details about the "earlier clashes" mentioned by SOHR:
 * Activists said troops attacked al-Bayda after a bus carrying pro-regime militants, known as Shabiha, was attacked, killing at least seven and wounding more than 30.

--CE (talk) 16:30, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

SyrPer
Already on Thursday, he reports:


 * TARTOUS: Not much usually happens here in this bastion of pro-government citizens. But, the rats are desperate and are looking for other places to settle. No such luck.


 * 2 warehouses filled with weapons were destroyed by the SAA and militia.


 * At Al-Baydha Village, heavy machine guns were seized and turned over to our brave NDF. There were automatic assault rifles, components for RPGs, RPGs, IEDs and very advanced communication equipment that will remain unused. The owners of the 2 warehouses claim ignorance. But just give them some time with the AI people and they'll warble arias.


 * At Al-Marqab, site of the magnificent coastal fortress, SAA killed 19 insects. Their names are being collected by Wael. He writes that they appear foreign. There are Saudis in the group.


 * In Banyaas itself, at the Al-Nabi' Quarter, we killed 17 rats:


 * 'Ali Mashnooq (Well, he never made it to the gallows)
 * Safwaan Qaramaan
 * Mahmoud Al-'Aashiq
 * Raami Jameel
 * Nabeel Haddaad
 * 'Ali Humaydaan


 * The rest had no papers.

--CE (talk) 16:59, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Syrianews

 * SAA Commits Massacres in Bayda & Qussayr Countryside – Arabi Souri, May 4, 2013

Tartous today

 * Full field report of the events of the city of Banias 05/02/2013 – Date Posted: 02/05/2013 01:26 am

Activists

 * Syria: massacres over last few days | 36 hours comms blackout | Anons restore Internet – May 8, 2013

TV

 * Al Manar 3 May 2013 from Bayda and Qussayr (4:55)
 * Notice how they show the same scene from the central square twice, first with a white pickup and bodies, then with the bodies gone and the bodies gone – with SAA taking cover behind the building. Some rebel counter attack must have happened in between. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:33, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
 * ...or maybe first video is activist footage from time before SAA arrived. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:42, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Our work is done! Everything is explained here in great detail, by al Arabiya channel. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 04:51, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * In the horrific massacre of Banias detailed explanation of the massacre carried out by the occupation Brigades stamens SYRIA 5-5-2013 ‬

AlJazeera propaganda "documentary" with English subtitles. Contains some unseen footage of the curbside victims. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 06:49, 12 June 2013 (UTC) From the same YouTube channel: Some more footage here:
 * Banias - Witness on the Massacre 18+ بانياس - شاهد على المجزرة
 * New scene was not presented before the massacre Beida + + +18 – Al-Jazeera coastal, uploaded May 26, 2013
 * New evidence leaked of Banias massacre confirm that the martyrs are all civilians


 * Al-Ikhbariya full broadcast, good quality, helpful footage. بانياس تطهير البيضا من المجموعات الارهابية (Banias Beida cleansing of terrorist groups) syriaalikhbaria, May 3. Will change the curbside scene placement and help in other areas. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:52, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * طرطوس - القضاء على إرهابيين في المرقب والبيضا ورأس النبع (Tartous - the elimination of terrorists in the observatory, Beida and Ras spring) Syriatube87, May 3. Good quality footage

Newspapers

 * Dozens Killed By Assad Troops In Bayda Massacre, Syrian Activists Say – Ryan Lucas, May 2, 2013
 * Dozens massacred as Syrian forces storm coastal village – Reuters, May 2, 2013
 * Thousands flee Syrian city of Banias fearing new 'massacre' – Associated Press, 4 May 2013
 * Images of Sabra and Shatila in Banias – The Daily Star, Lebanon, May 04, 2013
 * An Atrocity in Syria, With No Victim Too Small – New York Times, May 14, 2013
 * Telegraph: "Sunni village 'massacred' in Alawite heartland."

UN

 * Syria:Thousands Displaced By Deadly Violence in Baniyas Area – Press Release: UN News, 13 May 2013

Photos

 * Other picture of AL Bayda's massacre: Partly charred bodies, many, about 20+, piled in a room. Posted by yallasouriya, 11:23 am on May 4, 2013.
 * First pictures of Al Bayda village massacres by LccSy
 * 750 martyrs in Syria today!
 * Facebook more
 * awda-dawa.com

Two photos we've never seen, posted on June 2, the one-month anniversary, claimed to from (G-trans) "the month before the horrific massacre of the day in the village of al-Bayda." (on this day last month?) Posted by Ahmed Abul Khair on his Google +page, the two horrible photos can be seen is this slideshow. First, IMG-20130520-WA0000 "A picture of a martyr killed and then burned in the massacre committed by sectarian gangs in the village of al-Bayda." Quite charred, covered in some rubble inside a burnt out room with lots of daylight. Then 20130525-WA0013.jpg, "Children slaughtered at the hands of the Alawite bands..." One teenage boy, dead on the dirt next to a soccer ball. It would almost seem he was killed while playing socker except his arms and legs show signs of severe torture, probably not right here, without his ball rolling away. But it seems he did his final bleeding on this spot. So it looks staged. Photo taken in the dark, presumably pre-dawn. From the darkness on his right jaw/neck below the ear, this might be the boy seen closer up on the daylight photos with that area torn fully open somehow. see here, if prepared for a horrible sight. However, that would mean both sides of his upper neck behind the jaw were destroyed like this. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:20, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm really on a roll tonight. This same kid can be seen among the curbside victims, as if they were piled up around him. this video, 0:14-0:16. Same shirt, an indented wound uncannily in the same spot as on the other side (if the same kid). Rough treatment. He's laid out about the same way here as in the photo, but this is a second placement, I think. Otherwise, his blood would run the other way on the pavement, and the ball definitely would have rolled away. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:45, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The closeup photo with the neck wound must be a mirror image. It most likely came from the same batch as the closeup of sheikh Omar. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 13:08, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought of that and ruled it out. But you're right. Horizontal flipping explains it, even the reddened patch along the side of his head. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:30, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

April 2011

 * Syria Presses Crackdown in Two Cities on Coast – New York Times, April 12, 2011 (mirror)

BBC
BBC's Ian Pannell is in Syria interviewing alleged witnesses. This video was published today on the BBC site. The story itself is about Russian S-300 deliveries but has nothing to do with the 4 minute video.
 * Syrian activists document al-Bayda and Baniyas 'massacre' – BBC, May 28, 2013
 * Earlier this month the government said it had killed "terrorist fighters" in an operation in three neighbouring districts in al-Bayda and Baniyas in the west of the country.
 * But graphic video footage and fresh eyewitness testimony appear to support claims that the area was witness to one of the worst atrocities of the conflict.

Yes, this is true. But in the broadcast Ian Pannell jumps to the unexplained conclusion, that the troops and Alawite militia seen on video in the main square in al Baida are the same "militia" that then went to Baniyas to butcher the families there. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:53, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

IRIN
May 28, Iranian-Indonesian radio, Iranian site, Indonesian language. Translated, it says in part:
 * Front Al-Nusra dan FSA Teror Imam Masjid Homs
 * Earlier, the militants also massacred Bayasi Omar Sheikh, his wife and two daughters in the village of al-Baiyda, Banias, for failing to declare jihad and give the key to a militant mosque.

United States
The reported massacre is said to have influenced the U.S. to again air the possibility of directly arming the rebels. Next batch of people called-in as killed by Shabiha and never investigated will lead to yet another airing and eventually maybe some guns. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:41, 3 May 2013 (UTC)


 * State Dept'spokesman Jen Psaki, May 4: Massacre in al-Bayda
 * The United States is appalled by horrific reports that more than 100 people were killed May 2 in gruesome attacks on the coastal town of al-Bayda, Syria. Regime and Shabiha forces reportedly destroyed the area with mortar fire then stormed the town and executed entire families, including women and children.
 * They make it sound exactly like the Houla massacre. Let's hope it was more like Tremseh. --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:03, 5 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I thought the Al Bayda Massacre was in Libya! Yeah, History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 13:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's just a common name, especially for more or less coastal towns. "The White." Could be referring to limestone, as I think it did in Libya's "the white (monastery)." As if it matters/for a side thing, any related parallels could go here, but aside from dead soldiers, the basic details are pretty different. So other than linguistically and maybe geographically, little repetition here, aside from the whole "Arab Spring / people's uprising" correlations.   --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:03, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
 * It's here. Astonishingly, white like snow in summer! -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:25, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Baniyas Massacre

 * ''Moved to Talk:Baniyas massacre.

Syriangirl
This was just posted on Facebook by Syriangirl. I understand these to be not her own observations, but she is reposting comments made on her wall by others. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 08:51, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Here is the information i have received from sources inside and close to Syria.


 * An activist
 * So all this non-ending arguement about Banias.To sum it up here is what happened guys.. my sources are friends from Banias. I heard many stories but im sharing only whats in common in all stories.
 * This guy Omar Biaasie, the Imam of Bayda mosque.. he was a big revhead. Then a while ago. They made a lie about him that SAA killed him. So he appeared on the Syrian TV saying they are lying and its part of the propaganda. Apparently FSA hated him for this. And now it was the right time to kill him and his family for real this time to blame the SAA and whine about it like they always do.
 * The other family that was killed was his sister-Manar Biaasie-, her husband and their kids. also proves that him and his family were the ones targeted. btw Bayda isnt all opposition. There are some pro people there too.
 * SAA patrol was besieged near Al-Bayda first, 4 were martyred. Then more army came to help them. Before the army got there, terrorists were in control of the town and did their massacre killing the 2 families of Baiaase. Army came, surrounded the Bayda. Killed the terrorists. 9 soldiers were martyred in this operation. Since there were army martyrs, it means the town was infected with many rats. So whoever killed those soldiers also killed the 2 families. They've done it too many times already in Hawleh and Karm-Zieton. Maybe a desperate try to ruin SAA recent achievements and accuse us of being sectarian which in turn justifies their crimes. Please be careful guys and don't get too excited posting stuff before you're sure. You're just doing them a great favor for free.
 * check this its from an opposition page> it says names the people who died in the massacre.. they know exactly who they killed.
 * http://www.facebook.com/Saned.N.N/posts/648416878518109


 * Sabina Chia
 * Syriangirl I have family there! this is bullshit!
 * The fact is this started circulating when Abdel Salim Khadam's people who are the main sponsors of terrorism in the are shot dead two children from Banias! THE REASON THEY PUT THIS TRAP WAS TO COVER THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY SHOT 2 CHILDREN ,ON THEIR BALCONY (ROOF) IN BANIAS!!!!!!!!THE CHILDREN WERE FROM MY FAMILY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 * Arabi Souri
 * What do you know about those militias? I know them. I have friends among them, i was following them from Latakia countryside to Bayda when they were NOT allowed by SAA to go in due to the sectarian and local tribal sensitivity in that area, yet I refused to comment as tensions are still there.

Saned N.N.
Facebook, Tartous # # # Beida Banias - Saned N.N., Syria supported news network, Paris, posted May 2, 2013 9:38 PM. Intro, translated with Facebook/Bing and Google translate combined: Entry Shabiha (شبيحة) system to al-Bayda Adahmua (? ليداهموا) they break in army weapons storage was free of engagement (meaning no FSA?), and killed 30 Shabiha (شبيح) and Move to the National Hospital Banias. and killed 30 being annoying and concealed to Banias. hospital. Shabiha haotawa (? حاوطوا) and field executions and corpses on the road and in the news field executions women and children, on top of tank shelling on the neighborhood of Ras Rifah. Dozens of martyrs." (Note: Facebook/Bing once renders Shabiha (شبيح) as "being annoying and concealed.") --Caustic Logic (talk) 07:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC) Anyway, the given names:
 * 1) ابو احمد منيرة - Abu Ahmed Munira
 * 2) ياسر طه - Yasser Taha
 * 3) عمر نصرية الملقب عمر بياسي - Omar Nassiriyah aka/alias Omar Biassi
 * 4) محمد صافي طيبا  - Mohammed Safi Taiban (? translates net good)
 * 5) عبد القادر قدور والد محمد عليا وجميعهم استشهدوا حرقا - Abdul Qader/Abdelkader Udour (? translates pots) Walid Mohammed (? Mohammed's Father) high/graduated, and all of themwere killed by burning.
 * 6) زكريا الشاويش و زوجته منار البياسي  - Zakaria al-Shawish and his wife Manar Albiassi
 * 7) يوسف فتوح وشقيقه  - Joseph Fattouh and his brother
 * 8) معاذ طيبا - Maaz Daiouda/Tyba (? translates "good")
 * 9) صباح الشغري - Sabah al-Shehri/sbah alshghry

Better translation by Google:
 * Entry system شبيحة to egg Adahmua the store for the Army Corps of free Vtm engagement and killed 30 شبيح them and Move to the National Hospital Banias .. Shabeeha Haootooa egg and field executions and bodies road and news Baeidamat the field against women and children.
 * Tanks shelling on the neighborhood of Ras Rifah. The number of martyrs dozens.


 * Better in ways. I left in the funny translation being annoying and concealed. Okay, that's an improvement. That too is a typo, I decided. The last letter is their h in end-of-word form, so it's singular Shabih [sic] or Shabiha as I meant to/should have put. Egg is not exactly white, but is pronounced like Bayda (south of Homs, "East Egg," near Abel), so perhaps a typo, or this town is called the egg instead of the white, even though it is white, and rounded, like an egg. I say al-Bayda, since that's clearly what they mean. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Aljazeera Coastal
Aljazeera Coastal Facebook page publishes this massacre post on May 4, 2013.


 * Syria # Tartus # massacre # Banias - barbaric killings to bury the revolution


 * New Syrian regime covenant with massacres, and proved that he began to lose his temper with increasing blows directed by his rebels, Vktv its criminal that looked as if they had sectarian cleansing, he had begun in Homs, and supplemented with the massacres of Banias last for fighting a war with unarmed civilians where and punish them ugliest ways and means and the most criminal and brutal.


 * In the details of the massacres horrific, it started regime forces backed by large numbers of شبيحة and the inhabitants of the villages of the Alawite sect neighboring siege to the village of Bayda in the morning of Thursday, 05/02/2013 from all sides and the shelling is heavy artillery and tanks under the pretext of the presence of armed men which were recording the fall of twelve Ten resulted in a shell destroyed several homes and damaged the Great Mosque of the village, after forces stormed the village system and Hbihth the field and carried out executions with knives and bullets under sectarian motives against the Sunni population, which led to the deaths of dozens of martyrs, including entire families, and a lot of children and women


 * According to initial reports by testimonies of survivors of the massacre that the number of martyrs reached hundreds, we could not document all their names because of the inability Nashtina to enter the city and target villages and move freely, and that the roads and the main square and houses filled with corpses that have شبيحة system burned a large section of them, as well as to use machetes and sharp instruments varied in the killings and the presence of several heads smashed fully because of it, and in the meantime the districts of Banias exposed to heavy shelling from warships and regime forces stationed in the neighborhood of mansions were recorded killed 70 shell, destroyed several homes evacuated..


 * On Friday, 03/05/2013 forces completed the classes Mjazha burned many houses and land in the village of Baida while still remains of the martyrs and their bodies dumped in the streets and houses and the smell of death emanating from the place, and bombed the village groves Islam which led to the occurrence of the martyrs and the wounded, and launched a campaign of raids and mass arrests in the central city of Banias spread heavy snipers, and also cordoned off the top of the spring and shy head Rifah The بقصفهم has violently with heavy artillery and rocket launchers and mortars


 * And support groups shabeeha a formal regime forces attack, he stormed on Friday afternoon neighborhood of Ras spring after bombing the same systematic way in the village of al-Bayda followed and implemented long field executions of dozens, including women and children, knowing that there was not any significant resistance by gunmen


 * It is worth mentioning that the city of Banias and villages under full control of the system for more than a year and a half and experiencing situations humanitarian catastrophic amid a lack of hospitals and field shelters where, and witnessing always intimidation to secure them through continued shelling and gunfire and the spread of snipers, and the closure of all roads and suffocating siege made movement activists are very difficult to document these massacres and count the number of martyrs accurately.


 * According to the news about the crowds further strengthen the regime forces stationed in the city for the third day in a row, which confirms the continuation of the system in its military campaign on the city, which was one of the first areas responsive to the call of the revolution, which saw peaceful demonstrations, rallies chanted for freedom and toppling the regime carried out a population strikes in solidarity with the cities affected, It also was the first city to witness a women's sit-in to demand the release of detainees.


 * Taking forward the Local Coordination Committees in Syria deepest condolences to the families of victims of the massacre, it appeals to the actors in the international community and its organizations Alansansh and legal speed take action to stop the regime's crimes and protect civilians from the use of barbaric each means of killing and destruction links the national community by the regime's practices.

Promotion of this Research
I worked this research and some more, focusing on the Imam al-Biassi angle, and wrote an article Global Resarch didn't want, so I published it through the CIWCL site. "Targeting Specific Communities" in Syria, Case Study: The Baniyas Massacres --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:58, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

I left a comment here summing it up and linking to it: Decolonize Your Brain: The massacres in Banias are crimes against humanity --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:58, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I was none too impressed with the response: "your condescending tone implies that you think the regime is incapable of brutality,” etc. Didn't know he's Palestinian, but that only scores you so many points. I wrote one more response, but he suddenly turned on comment moderation, so I saved the whole thing in case he disallows it (as it seems he means to) That would continues the discouraging trend suggesting another of the myriad fake anti-Imperialists shilling for regime change in Syria while pretending not to. You can't win a fact-based argument, so just shut it down and refuse it any way you can. If that's the case, I'll want to publish our discussion with a few notes somewhere to spite and expose the wormy little bugger. Wasted too much time there but I can't let be for zero. --Caustic Logic (talk) 11:45, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Good, he posted my comment, plus the jab, to make me look rude, and called me a moron. Good stuff, if you want to kill a few minutes. --Caustic Logic (talk) 08:30, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Then, as if I'd hit a serious nerve, got all in a huff and went off with this stupid screed. He probably imagined it would devastate me. I said I wouldn't link it but what the heck. Worked out pretty good on my end to see him sputtering. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:49, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Then to Syria Comment: Do the Massacres in Bayda and Banyas Portend Ethnic Cleansing to Create an Alawite State? Joshua Landis, May 13. I submitted a detailed comment (would be #1,332), not approved yet, and also e-mailed it to Landis directly to make sure he saw it. --Caustic Logic (talk) 00:36, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Reports Timeline
Syrian street at http://sy-street.net/ reports on May 2nd
 * Violent clashes near the Banias and the army closed the international road
 * Media sources reported that violent clashes took place on Thursday morning, May 2 / May in the village of egg to Banias between the elements of the Syrian Arab Army and armed men were present in the village.
 * The sources said that the clashes began about seven o'clock in the morning and continues until now, and this is why the army to cut the international road between Tartus and Banias.
 * The sources added that the army carried out raids and arrested a number of wanted men in the same village.

Longer story from the same site, with photos:
 * High-ranking military source of the "Syrian street": So would respond to any armed rebellion in safe areas
 * Syrian army was able to control the town, "Beida" in Banias on Thursday, May 2, 2013. And the number of people killed dozens of militants, as dozens of them surrendered the Army was the confiscation of large quantities of weapons.
 * (Google translated)The violent clashes have occurred this morning ... gunmen ambushed left for a unit of the army during a raid carried out after receiving (reports) About Seen weapons depot which resulted in 6 martyrs and 23 wounded. The army has converted the international road from Highway Tartous - Banias to the secondary road ensure the safety of citizens and has re-opened at a later time.

Al Arabia: 2 May 2013 KSA 22:22 - GMT 19:22
 * Watchdog reports ‘massacre’ in Bayda, at least 50 dead

YallaSouriya 8:08 pm on May 2, 2013
 * #Syria, Latakia, Banyas, young men arrrested (photo)

YallaSouriya 10:23 pm on May 2, 2013
 * #Syria, Picture from #BaydaMassacre today taken from an pro-regime page.

Facebook post by Bristol Justice for Syria on May 2, 10,29 pm
 * At 6 in the morning Assad forces surrounded Al-Bayyda in Banays, they raided homes and arrested more than 200 people including women and children. Women were raped in groups in the streets in front of their families by the regime forces. The 200 arrested were executed in the streets and then burned.
 * ''The international community has been silent and let Assad continue committing genocides and ethnic clearing of people in Homs and other cities to pave the way for Assad to divide Syria!!!!
 * First photo of the massacre to be released by activists

YallaSouriya 2:27 am on May 3, 2013
 * Pro-Assad pages on Facebook admitting to, and celebrating, the massacre in #Bayda by Assad forces.

YallaSouriya 2:21 am on May 3, 2013
 * From a pro-regime FB page. These are “terrorists” (civilians) who were field-executed in Bayda, #Banias today. #Syria

Events Timeline
There is some science to this, and more specifics to find, so don't be surprised if this winds up shuffling around. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:59, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

- 4 AM: New York Times: "Activists said that on May 2, around 4 a.m., security forces came to detain defectors, and were ambushed in a fight that killed several government fighters — the first known armed clash in Baniyas."
 * This puts a short time frame on the rest, so either this happened earlier, things moved very quickly, or the sequence was different than we've been thinking. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:59, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

- Pre-Dawn Massacre Scenes: the following at least were dead and filmed by rebels/activists in full pre-dawn dark. Pre-dawn clues (as opposed to, say, the following night) are noted with two entries. We can say these scenes existed before, say, 5:30 am. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:59, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

- bedroom scene, 6 dead, women and children (Fattouh-Biassa family?) Pre-dawn clues: a boy victim wet his shorts, which are more dried in the daylight (later) video)

- Room of  Horror, app. 20 dead, all women and children (famil(ies) unclear, analysis pending)

- Othman home, 5 dead males, mostly adult. Pre-dawn clues: 15-year-old Ahmad is clearly in situ here, so clearly moved for a later photo, in low (early) daylight.

- Three charred men, out in the street, intense smoldering (just finished burning). One is reportedly Ibrahim al Shoghri, 69.

- 6 AM: "At 6 in the morning Assad forces surrounded Al-Bayyda in Banays" (a Facebook page

- 6:44 AM: Sunrise According to the NOAA solar calculator, with proper settings (DST, check) apparent sunrise in al-Bayda is given as 6:44 am. Azimuth 70.5 degrees (compass direction NE to the sun).

- Morning Massacre Scenes: the following scenes at least were still accessible to rebels and filmed again in daylight, possibly before sunrise but when the sky is at least partly lit-up. This is presumed early morning, or sometime before they lost control of the particular area of filming (times are generally uncertain at the moment): the bedroom scene (see same link as above), charred men (intense smoldering, just finished burning - again - same link), Ahmad of the Othman family (moved, see same link), Sheikh Omar al-Biassi, and the smashed-head victims. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:59, 4 July 2013 (UTC) and --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:55, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

- 7 AM: pro-gov. source: "The clashes began about seven o'clock in the morning." (the earlier ambush is mentioned, but not taken as the start of "clashes") "The government called in reinforcements and, by 7 a.m., began shelling the village." (New York Times) "The bombing started at seven in the morning on Friday until ten o'clock, (14 artillery shells and rockets and machine guns) ... during this time villagers fled through the orchards ... several hundred remained." (anti-gov. activists)

- 10 AM: anti-gov. activists: "at 10:00 began the attack ... (by Christian forces?) ... began to massacre, and continued until two o'clock PM"

- 1:33 PM: Solar noon (sun due south), per NOAA (for reference purposes).

- 2 PM and After: anti-gov. activists: "(the city was?) calm after two o'clock PM, but rapists remained and spread until the evening."

- 3 PM: Approximate time of killing of 5 men in the main square, then under SAA control. A white government truck is abandoned, one van burnt out, another burning intensely.

- Later in the afternoon: smashed-head victims photographed by loyalist sources.

Consider: SCDV description for all al-Bayda victims: they were field executed in "a Massacre (that) claimed the lives of dozens of martyrs, while the regime forces surrounded Al of Beida village and shelling it with heavy weapons then they storm it by supporting pro- regime thugs(( shabeeha)) and Popular Committees militia ..." Considering the fairly consistent timeline, this description is more misleading than technically incorrect. The massacres happened in the pre-dawn dark, in the latter part of which the government offensive "surrounded" the town, so "while" is not the best word, but not the worst. "Before" would have been better. Then they perhaps shelled the parts of it where they thought themassacre perpetrators and their allies were based, then invaded and made arrests. If the massacres happened in the afternoon, that would be one thing, but they occurred in the period of rebel supremacy before the government attack. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:40, 13 July 2013 (UTC)