Talk:Odessa Trade Union massacre/Videos

The Perfect Video List
Forthcoming: see. Below this, no further comment, just the list, whenever. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:36, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

In Progress List
(subject to change) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:36, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * (moved from Talk:Odessa Trade Union massacre)

Petri, the front page list of videos are nearly all dead by now. What's a good way to organize a new, fuller, current list? I've been collecting lots of links, most saved, and it's even a bit organized with notes for most. Of course there are postings, original postings, original names vs. reference names ... I've taken to using the video-length as a unique ID I can see when opening the file, whatever name it has (usually gibberish "D" type characters on my system). --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:59, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Starters by category, in descending order by length, longest first. This way, anyone with an unknown video can use the time to figure out which of these it is, track down original posting, etc. Mostly I'm only doing Youtube as that's what I can see and save here ATM. Other sites where I can't see due to dated flash player (and cannot update) so I'm not sure if it's a dupe, still plays, etc. ... anyone else can add these. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:59, 22 September 2014 (UTC) and --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:55, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

May 2 full-day compilation (including footage both of early clashes and events on Kuloviko Field - original, full-length video - snippets of note can be included and then shuffled beneath their parent video - multi-source compilations go below) --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:07, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * 33:04 orig. posting? (fisheye lens)
 * 31:23 Hromadske.od.ua https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdK-yqCJfsg
 * 23:21 Tracce E-95 original posting
 * 7:25 Pogrom in Odessa

May 2 Mid-Day Clashes only
 * 3:46 2nd clash on Zhukova Lane, above view Митинг антимайданщиков в Одессе. 3 мая 2014 года

May 2 Kulokivo Field/TUH Not much factual said. Middle aged well dressed woman, reacting to news on internet, and her observations, that a huge crowd moves towards the building with intent to harm/burn/beat, came here and is saying basically don't do it, calm down. But people nearby react very angrily, try to prevent recording by chants Ukraine, and angrily confront her verbally (they made their minds firmly already and there is no conversation). Neither side has a well-developed argument to present; pro Maidan say either they attacked first, or just get lost and go to Russia. --Resup (talk) 12:09, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
 * 44:22 "Maydanovtsy save people from a burning house unions" Original YT? (or is original elsewhere?) - another Youtube Posting
 * 33:05 posting
 * A short clip ... from this footage suggests there's a better-quality original around.
 * 24:17 Youtube posting - posting (Mikola shooting, back stairwell fire and falling people, etc.)
 * 12:45 Youtube posting (police, Mikola, north end and front, dusk - fire engine arrives)
 * 10:14 YT (little visual value, dialog would be fascinating translated)
 * 9:13 Youtube posting
 * 6:51 posting (front door fires raging, evacuation)
 * 5:48 O1.ua arrival video original Youtube posting (marching south and arriving, start of assault)
 * 5:36 VID 20140502 195829 By title, (starting? ending?) at 7:58 PM - little visual value (distance view)
 * 3:59 above orig Youtube posting? - "Trade Union House fire in Odessa full video"
 * 3:20 Youtube posting (bad stamp) (mob arrival, civilians inside, ...)
 * 3:10 [3:10 VID 20140502 194721 By title, (starting? ending?) at 7:47 PM. Moderate visual value - may show back stairwell smoke just starting to rise at 0:21
 * 2:16 above orig Youtube posting?
 * 1:06 Dumskaya TV Куликово поле. Спасатели. Одесса. 02.05.14. Dusk, north end, police, fire truck arriving, firefighter carries down a survivor trapped on the 4th floor ledge.
 * 0:22 Youtube posting (explosion heard, little seen - distance view)

Same, after dark (rescues, beatings, arrests, etc.)
 * 13:16 Channel 1 ТА Одесса 20140502 214221 внутри дома профсоюза - digging through the dead's papers, moving and burning on 4th floor landing, partial building tour, neo-Nazi cross has appeared on back gate, etc.
 * 5:15 Channel 1, Ch 1 beating survivors Youtube posting

May 2 other

Witness Accounts
 * 14:34 1612tv/No Comments - May 9 on-site relation by a witness (Ukrainian)

News Reports/Documentaries (include compilations of others' videos)
 * 26:03 Одесса 2 мая.Трибунал кровавого пепла. 3 часть
 * 17:13 PolitRussia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGaaCDb9g1U
 * В Сети появилось видео начала штурма Дома профсоюзов в Одессе (Video of assault on House of Trade Unions in Odessa on the net) – Life News, May 6, 2014. (Cites and shows key parts of the Denis Cherkasov videos)
 * One of the entries captured the beginning of the tragedy: immediately after nationalists burned the tent city activists Antimaydana. The footage shows that crowd of young men in masks and wooden sticks in their hands knocked out one of the side doors and entered the building.
 * Next record has been going on inside the building. Militants spread all corridor - someone goes to the second floor, one begins to break in the door, behind which, apparently tried to hide Antimaydana activists. Brutal thugs literally pounce on the locked shutters. In the frame comes a woman who begs radicals stop.

Frames on the record shows that some of the participants of the storm House of Trade Unions have masks. And it is possible that the assumptions of the poisoning victims Ukrainian radicals toxic substances far from the truth.

Other
 * [www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR0x6Oyw12c "The Basement Odessa House Of Trade Unions. may 18, 2014.]
 * The basement was locked. The sign next to the "new" wall, under the Central staircase. What is there to hide? By and large there already poumirali and everywhere pronounced traces of what was there all totally laundered, as well as a surprise was lower... P.S. This only !little! part of the underground communication House of trade Unions.
 * The floor appears to be full of blood ... pretty red to be filmed May 18 ... --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:23, 22 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Odessa. The right Sector throws out the official in a dustbin | September 07 Ukraine Today News (looks to be at the Trade Union Hall) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:55, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Discussion
(I suggest members adopt and move or start sections here as inspired - I'll be doing both, but don't mind someone saving me work...) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:36, 6 October 2014 (UTC))

Sergei Dibrov Videos
Special section to highlight this trove... the other day I read an article (pro-Kiev slant but informative) that mentioned "Serhiy Dibrov, coordinator of the (May 2) Group who streamed some 7 hours of footage through the afternoon and evening in his capacity as journalists for Dumskaya.net." I checked Dumskaya's Youtube channel, and a found several short videos (a minute or less), of some value, but no 7-hour treasure chest. But I had noticed a "Mr. Dibrov" account with Odessa videos, and checked that ... turns out he's the original source for the 44:22 video, the 9:13 one right before it, and maybe some others. These two important additions he posted at the time or within days, along with some others. Listed (incomplete, rest in time...) Then just in the last month or two, he posted a huge batch of raw videos, mostly short, but time-stamped (in title) and adding up to near total coverage, spanning from 2:44 PM to 10 PM local, so just over 7 hours (will settle the timeline) The report mentioning his videos was dated August 11, when the first video in the new batch went up August 5. With nearly two months, this one has gotten 18 views. Most others are at 2-10 views each. New stuff here, and so much of it... Partial list, chronological:
 * Куликово поле: начало (Одесса, 02.15.2014) (19:58)
 * 2014 05 02 19:57 длительность 44:22 cb62d954-413a-41fa-89d6-308ac561bde1-6367ce (44:22)
 * 2014 05 02 17:54 длительность 57:38 1d0c3322-7d80-4dab-9a16-44841bbefaf7-e2a849 (57:58)
 * Битва за Одессу 020514 (1:15:53)
 * 2014 05 02 14:44 длительность 04:58 ae692dec 4e66 4dcf 9db0 16bdcadadb3f 41cdf4
 * 2014 05 02 14:50 длительность 08:48 89c37b3b 2f2d 4eea b659 285dca5c7383 d85cbb
 * (as linked, these bring up the list, so I'll cheese out there for now...) --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:32, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

One question this discovery raises, which I can pose: In my latest video, VS11, at 0:22 (actual video start) the filmer of the video that's Dibrov's (so, Dibrov) stands on something and loudly announces something like "Oboborona!" and something else. Anyone able to get a translation of what the coordinator of the 'independent' May 2 Group said there? --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:21, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * A bit confused, that quoted video at 0:22 starts with unintelligible, some da-da-da-da (yes yes yes yes),or tra-ta-ta-ta (imitating sounds), loudly but far away so not much on the recording. At the same time, presenter mumbles something, but it is unintelligible. The first meaningful thing starts at around 0:40, The presenter: kuda-kuda oni vse idut (where-where they are all going) ? Before that, it is unintelligible --Resup (talk) 13:50, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * You can do Russian? Okay, in the video mix, not that clear. Original video at 2:15, if you feel like checking again...--Caustic Logic (talk) 22:42, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * 2:15 somebody yells: samooborona !!! (self-defense !!!--call to selfdefence unit to pay attention). From the second station, a crowd is moving !!! 30-40 people !!! Q: second station? A; Yes, Food Academy--Resup (talk) 01:13, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Hm... sounds like he's giving tactical advice to the "self-defense" attackers, to make their attack more effective. Just who he's talking about, not clear to me. "Crowd" implies their side, but "food academy?" And as you mention someone asks where they're going. I'm curious what he says. At about this time, the break-ins were happening at the building's south end. (previous video (7:48 PM) shows at the beginning the southeast entrance (near) not yet in service, while the south/southwest (far) entrance is less clear, but apparently people are lined up an entering by this time. Is he directing people to join that break-in? Would be a little troubling if so. --Caustic Logic (talk) 03:38, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


 * I am not on top of details what's going on and listened only locally. I understand that he (=whoever yells samooborona!) warns the self-defense people, somewhere near him, that a crowd, potentially dangerous, but not identified, of some 30-40 people, is approaching them from a train station number 2, and he clarifies the one which is from the direction of college which prepares specialists for the food industry. there are several such colleges in Odessa, here is a plausible directions map--Resup (talk) 04:48, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Apologies, I didn't get train station, was thinking all on-site (station=door or something and food institute meant???) In terms of the city, that crowd could be some Borotba reinforcements en route. No sign of any fight if they ever arrived - some fresh (no-smoky_ people, including Alaexi Albu (Borotba founder) and middle-aged guys in camouflage are seen in custody later (after 8) at the back of the building (facing the train station), and later yet badly beaten (best view is late in the Tracca E-95 video - Albu-looking guy in clean white shirt). Or it could be something else, but I'll presume nothing of the shady sort I was hoping for. --Caustic Logic (talk) 05:34, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Flagneck Tour Video

 * (moved from Talk:Odessa Trade Union massacre)

This long one has subtitles in Russian, for anyone who can read them. Seems to be some official people (uniforms, camo with ballistic vest etc) and a few people seems to get arrested/detained in the first 20 minutes or so. One at least with fresh blood on his face. Then they go into offices with papers strewn everywhere and 5 or 6 women's handbags they search for documents. A lot of it badly blurred, no lighting, possibly a head-mounted camera. But their own comments might be valuable and explain more than the images do. KatKan (talk) 18:13, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

I'll see about that. Video quality is an issue. For now, it may be helpful to save it while it is there. If higher quality versions found, please post a link. Also, I do not understand the context, like who initially posted this video; it seems to consist from different pieces glued together, so where those pieces coming from? (online)TV, guy walking with a camera, or what else? The first (9:27) is---what? Ukr tv, somehow with 2 different channel captions in 2 places, and hypercam caption in upper left??? And where are those captions below coming from? Than why at past 9:27 I see something else? This may be another instanse where Sharii may help us, in the past he was able to find high qualiy version of poor quality stuff, by some magic; and after the magic, meaning magically changed as well. --Resup (talk) 19:14, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Two very long ones, 1 hour+ and 2 hours, pieced together from numerous sources Part One and Part Two English subtitles/commentary. Towards end of Pt 2 shows various angles with red armbands circled working out who was who. Lot of early Pt 2 is slow rescues of people from windows, no beating up. Middle shows some bodies inside that we've already seen. Shows Mykola, collaborating police chief etc. Lots of duplication in these. KatKan (talk) 21:43, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


 * I need to get a properly organized list up (the one above must be scrapped into that...) And bodies videos I didn't organize yet, not that there's more than two or so of them... The part you mean is a 9-minute or so segment of odd provenance and glitches. The only such footage I've seen, there's still open flame in spots. From this and other sources, BTW, I count exactly 32 victims inside the building. Any 80 extra people (for the 116 tally) were already gone by this time. It's discussed somewhere, and there's a French subtitled version that helped me get what they're saying (linked somewhere on the site)."Flagneck" is leading this walk, taking ID papers, arresting the stray survivors still found, directing firemen, knowing everything that happened, etc. It shows deaths maybe caused by fire, ones he says are, and some I don't think are. A few interesting things about this should get some space...  "People's Republic of s**t" he says at one corpse, stuff like that. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:23, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Un blogueur filmait en directe du bâtiment à Odessa, Ukraine le 2 mai (sous-titres français) 48:34, comp. I have a stand-alone 9:14 copy saved that might be from this posting stamped Free RUTube (unlike the copy in the French one). Not sure which has best quality - all seem to freeze for long times, then show a few clear frames and some blurry ones. There should be other postings, but not too easy to dig up. --Caustic Logic (talk) 22:50, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


 * What I haven't seen is a stand-alone copy of the longer version. These comps have it, running 8:50-48:24 in the French titled version, so just under 40 minutes. The longest stand-alone I've noticed is the 9-minute chunk. Original source I think is outside Youtube (not Free RUTube) and I don't feel like tracking it down. What it shows is what matters most to me. --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:29, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Found my notes. Another posting of the 9-minute version: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q4W-J4ctKE Inside the House of Trade Unions. Ukrain, Odessa. people killed in a fire May 2, 2014] by Rawist Kolorad. And from the French subtitles, some dialog/translation/summary/notes:

12:32 Kiev, ecoutez. Maintenant il y a un cadavre confirme. Kiev, listen. Now there's a dead body confirms.

17:11 flames still

19:39 Il ya un cadavre dune femme a letage enfume. Peut-etre juste un empoisonnement There is a corpse of A woman on the floor covered in soot. May be just a poisoning - one man steps on her and rolls her around jokingly

20;; top floor locked door, threats - 2130 beating a survivor

22:00 - asphyxiated 22:15 "a negress"

23:50 ten bodies on top floor

24:13 types of dead: fuckers, Maidan I have enough door (a Maidan je les ai assez porte,), still here, shit. (swearing is okay here BTW))

26:15 celui c'est qui? Ik est notre? Non, "Colorad" the one who is it? It is our? No, "Colorad" (by clothing, seen earlier in the day on that side - notes coming somewhere)

27:58 Putain. C'est le cerveau? Non, le sang coagule Fucking. It is the brain? No, the blood coagulates

28:24 Etes-vous seul ici! Non, je ne suis pas seul vous etes combien? Are you alone here! No, I am not the only one you are how much?

Il ya encore des gars. Sortes. Ne sortez pas dans la rue. There are still guys. Kinds. Don't go out into the street.

28:47 La bas il n y a pas de survivants Sauf les maidans The bottom there are no survivors Except the maidans

28:52 en haut, il n'y a que des partisans de Maidan qui sont vivants. Et tous ceux qui sont la, ce sont des macabes. at the top, there are supporters of Maidan who are alive. And all those who are the, what are macabre (dead?).

29:07 J'ai regarde la haut, la ou il y a enfumage. Dans un piece il ya 3 macabés, tous morts - I look at the top, where there is smoking. In one piece there are 3 macabés, all dead

32:10 estimates 25 or 30 bodies total --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:12, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Seems to be a stand-alone 18:33 cut, at least normal res https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPrK5tdwybw --Caustic Logic (talk) 23:20, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

0:14 "yes, I was upstairs, lots of smoke, and lot of canisters with petrol or some other fuel upstairs"

0:22 "nobody was there"

0:55 there was nobody, only corpses perhaps

0:56 "I am not filming"

1:02 "image is not sharp, so will not be possible to see"

1:07 what should I film?

1:13 "anybody alive? No we threw them away"

2:12 pills 'millgama' (he asks does anybody knows what for)

2:33 don't marauder, guys

2:42 Sh*** (pronounces the name, Ukranian, a student

2:47 (blood seen?)

2:51 fuck, the blood

3:06 I have already 6000 in a stream queue (don't know what he means)

3:40 fuck, what't that, brains? A: no just blood coagulated

(do not understand why I see some advertisement captions in lower screen, e.g. at 4:00)

4:20 X: how many of you are here? VideoGuy: I am with some guys X: start leaving soon. To the backyard, but not to the street, get ready

5:04 Q anybody alive there? A: Only Maidan

5:08 Q anybody alive/ (again) A: (Literally) "already no," only pro-Maidan

5:14 those are "всё, жмуры"  "gone, dead (slang)"

5:29 Q did you check the rooms A: Yes, in those upstairs, where there is some smoke, there are 3 dead, all (unintell.) dead already

5:43 (brief prayer for Ukraine)

6:32 (insignia seen) (we have a file somewhere with those)

6:42 Q and the roof? A: there is an entrance, that way, via an attic, but there is a lot of smoke there

7:08 here, everything is empty

7:35 'and imagine what will happen in Russia, if suddenly...this is just Odessa' (not sure what he means)

8:05 Trade Union building is unrelated to Maidan

8:27 just look, they were drinking here, vodka, pickles

8:41 this notepad is likely not theirs (?) here, everything was taken away already

9:15 what's goin on, "Seryi" (nickname), what 's going on upstairs?

9:30 router power supply still works

9:42 (outside cheering heard,) let's quit now

9:53 can we go downstairs?

10:05 "Misha", don't let them go to the street

10:41 So, “Seva” left the building. Q: He is on the roof ?A: no, a lot of smoke in the attic, too difficult to get there without a gas mask 10:44 (blood?)

10:57 -We should have used that trophy one. -Yes we should have (insignia seen, not enough resolution, likely a cop; also @ 11.07)

10:59- Approximately 25 dead -Fuck!

11:05 mostly smoke inhalation

11:08 in one place, nearly smashed the liver. Lots of blood.

11:42 (unintelligible) ...have you got anybody?

11:51 so, nobody is left?

11:57 quit from this side

12:13 (green banner, something written, cannot see)

12: 23 over there, the exit is blocked

12:34 and over here, also "cosmonauts" stand (presumably smbd with helmets)

12:37 (we see some (metallic?) bits and pieces)

13:17 now guys we may get our pants ripped (some obstacle)

Streaming ends here, the rest is some presentation, using historical footage and some photos

15:10 photo: appears to be  historic, some VIP  photo in the hands of soldiers. Caption says: buried secretly so that their graves are not desecrated by Maidan

15:22 widowed families, left one-on-one with "people's vlada"

15:42 some list of names and ranks, unclear what is this list, and memorial, Ethernal Flame, footage, all possibly taken from a movie (?)

up to 17:48 -WW2 themed and anti-maidan themes

18:20 chants, cheers Berkut! Berkut!

--Resup (talk) 00:15, 7 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Excellent, thanks! The extra stuff at the end, didn't watch far enough before. Maidan cops (Berkut) ignited, February or so (unsure), 3 cops I recognize as killed on the Maidan Feb. 18-20 (just a few of the few dozen), so not directly related. --Caustic Logic (talk) 09:32, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Perfect List Discussion
How? --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:36, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Memo: Videos, Contributions
We strongly prefer working with high-resolution original videos. Background and (preferably brief and straight to the point) factual explanations and comments are welcomed, in a text format. Any language may be used, we can google-translate, and in crucial cases do native-speaker translation. We do not have resources to support this work, and what we can do ourselves is rather limited. We cannot watch every video out there. We can do brief translations but cannot translate every single thing. For long videos, it helps to know what (with time stamp) to look at. It will help us to have transcripts of videos (original language). If you can also translate for us to English, that helps as well (our working language is English). Further on transcripts:  --Resup (talk) 12:44, 8 October 2014 (UTC)