Talk:Ukraine news/Current


 * Talk prior to Oct. 2016 is here

Discussion
Donbas keeps to be discussed in prime time news in Russia, Motorola, now future of Minsk agreements (e.g. Soloviev on Russia 1). Split opinion expressed on the latter; some take the line that it is most important to achieve peace so that Russians and Ukrainians do not kill each other ( a chap from Donbas was taking such line). While the host Soloviev was wondering what's the point of keeping Minsk if it is not working. And Kurginian, that what we got now is the best 'we' can get at the moment, and if 'we' wait some more, Ukrainian regime will fall apart and it can get better. So, they need to figure out what line they are actually taking, seems to be no consensus, but some wondering in the open do we still stick with Minsk, despite it is not working. Weird to see Zhirinovskii on all those programs,.why he is there, does he come every day? Did not watch them, just dropped by on some videos; a bit weird impression. They brought Yakov Kedmi to the Syrian part of discussion (as well as Zhirinovskii !), but Kedmi line was quite overwhelmed by other guests. --Resup (talk) 03:50, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Ukrainian media spread rumors on 'Surkov plan of destabilization of Ukraine' from 'hacking of his email' by "CyberHunta", imitating pro-Russian CyberBerkut style. This appears to be parroting, and an attempt to present genuine economic protests as being organised by Moscow. (No official comment on the issue yet). Ukrainian sources also try to present a known hack of old Russian FM site, replaces by a new one awhile back for whatever unrelated reason, as evidence that 'Surkov hack' is genuine. Looks like bloody nonsense than. Surkov writing to FM a email with plan of destabilization of Ukraine? Should be in humor section. --Resup (talk) 19:38, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Rusvesna: (1) "confirmed" as genuine by Anton Gerashenko on FB (Adviser to the Interior minister of Ukraine, and MH17 Announcer to the Whole World), for some unknown reason (2) contain spelling, grammar, and other errors common for Ukrainians («поджег» (вместо «поджог»), «кумовей» (вместо «кумов»), --yes, so that too, in the first document). Well, that's definitely not the level of Russian of Surkov --Resup (talk) 20:35, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Peskov denied--Resup (talk) 11:40, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Apparently more legs to the story-Hackers leak Putin plan to carve up Ukraine, The Times', 3 Nov. 2016.  Leaked Kremlin emails reveal how Russian operatives botched an attempt last year to foment an uprising in Kharkiv, the second largest city in Ukraine. The emails, obtained by The Times, were apparently hacked from the inbox of Maria Vinogradova, an adviser to Vladislav Surkov, President Putin’s point man on Ukraine. Full article is hidden, requires subscription. Retold as it is by Rusvesna. Includes alleged plan to carve Ukraine into 3 parts, Novorosia, Malorossia (Kiev area), Galichina (West). Also,  foment disturbances in Kharkov, using "Citizen Initiative" (Гражданская инициатива) movement --- said to be attempted but failed. There were some past reports in media about "Citizen Initiative" (here from Oct. 2014).  I' d say, apart from an interesting Rusvesna  photo, does not look too convincing.--Resup (talk) 22:37, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

1 Nov. LPR state security minister Leonid Pasechnik accused Ukraine, Nalivaichenko of plans to stage a terrorist act in Kharkov metro, present it as a revenge for Motorola murder, blame Russia in destabilizing Ukraine --Resup (talk) 14:02, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Nelya Stepa claims
"Former mayor of Slavyansk Nelya Stepa: I am in prison only because I brought to SBY in Kharkov documents showing that Yatseniuk and Turchinov funded Igor Strelkov squad" -Rusvesna, 30 Oct. 2016. (Presumably the logic is to cause and profit from war, and she says things along such line). Here she says it on video in Ukrainian court. "Slavyansk was not paid for by Russia, Slavyansk was paid for by Yatseniuk and Turchinov" in the end. Here is longer video.--Resup (talk) 12:16, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Strelkov comment can be found here, basically saying it is not worthy to comment. (+Similar type comment by blog author about a theory that Akhmetov funded the militants).
 * Ukrainian Council of National Security and Defense denied Stepa story too.
 * --Resup (talk) 11:30, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Situation in Donbass
Anastasiya Mikhailovskaya, introduced as 'Strelkov press secretary', interview, Jul 16, 2015. She spent half a year in Donbass recently. Her story is along the line of Strelkov's, brave dedicated volunteers on front lines, economic and political realities and ills similar to those in present day Russia behind the front lines (not too kind to current republics leadership). Hard living conditions (shelling in flashpoints; also basic necessities available in cities but priced higher-she says 3 times higher-than in Moscow) yet people do not leave. She also describes some push for Donbass to go back to Ukraine (eg many security personnel are former SBU and would be happy to go back to old days, etc); unclear how much she has seen herself as her line here is very close to Strelkov's. Some details:
 * (9:40)(Talks about coal trading with Ukraine, and than): Stirol plant in Gorlovka produces powerful military-use painkillers such as nalbufine, which may be used against pain shock for wounded; it is sold to Ukraine and used in Donbass. Anastasya has to buy those painkillers for wounded, using moneys from Strelkov foundation and private investors. The plant does not give that medicine for free for opolchenie use. When Borodai was there, there was a talk on privatization, but now it profits those who are in power (or close to).
 * (12:30) Humanitarian convoys arrive and are unloaded to warehouses, but there are problems with all that reaching people in need. It is managed using a system first used in Transnistria and Abkhazia (цуф (or ЦУП) system first introduced by Колёский (?)). She says it allows misappropriations/abuse.
 * As for herself, she received requests from medical providers, with all details such wounded person name and medicine needed; and works with a pharmacy in Rostov to fill the order. Pharmacy sends her bills, and she pays of those from the foundation money. She also keeps record of thank you messages from opolchenie for help received. She says that her methods leave no room for misappropriations. As for republics, they provide minimal medicine package (bandages etc) but not specialized medicine. All that is available from pharmacies in Donbass, at higher prices than in Russia. If Anastaiya needs something urgently she buys it locally (at higher price).
 * --Resup (talk)11:30, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Natalia Sharina case
Moscow librarian was arrested, placed under house arrest for having Ukrainian extreme nationalist books in the library. Natalia Sharina: Russian police detain Ukrainian library director for ‘inciting ethnic hatred’, Independent, 29 October 2015 (Human Rights Watch and co. protested).
 * One of the about 25 books adjudged to be extremist, Dmitriy Korchinskii,Война в толпе (War in a Crowd). This is mostly historic memoir, about what was going on in his life roughly from the collapse of the USSR to the wars in Abkazia --reestablishing the Ukrainian UNSO (the self-defense counterpart of the Army, UNA), around 19 Aug 1991 being one of them. Most of the text is fairly benign, but also contains details on planned armed attacks on Russian forces/ships. Unsure whether there are some actual attacks described but seen planning for an attempt which all failed. He quit UNSO by the end of the book, like to have some blue sky opportunities in front of him and UNSO--Resup (talk) 19:30, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

About Dmitriy Korchinskii: have not read his books but here he explains, in good Russian, that he calls for a military Christian crusade, a Christian version of Jihad. Moscow, according to him, is a house of Satan, which needs to be burned; in another take, Ukraine is a European frontier set out to defend against the Horde. Here, denies or plays down the role of Ukrainian nationalists (OUN) in Babii Yar and Lvov massacres of the Jews. --(..apart from that, would be a very well-spoken and charismatic guy...)--Resup (talk) 17:55, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

This case is not unique as is not to do with disciplining librarians. Eg here, a single mother in Russia is charged under 282 of the Criminal code (extremism) for a repost of somebody else article about Ukraine. She was sentenced to 320 hours of community service, and her notebook, mouse, and charger were confiscated as the crime weapons. --Resup (talk) 20:01, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

And here, a well-known blogger Nosik, charged under the same criminal code article 282 for publicly calling to 'obliterate Syria'. Found guilty but avoided prison, 1/2 million rubles fine instead. --Resup (talk) 19:38, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Ukrainian losses?
On the recent failed Ukrainian break-through attempt near Debalsevo:
 * Quoting Ukrainian soldier: 25 killed, 35 wounded in 3 hours of fighting, 'saw himself' (as the report claims)
 * Quoting Russian corresponded who visited a mosque: 20 UAF bodies, and this is only those left on the battlefield
 * Quoting Bezler, who quotes UAF soldier who wrote to him. The claim here is over 100 killed in 2 days of fighting (at various locations near Debaltsevo). (A bit high? Bezler is quite fond of mystifications)
 * --Resup (talk) 21:56, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Givi, Motorolla
Anatoliy Sharii: «Це неможливо, щоб депутатами стали такi як Гiвi, Моторола…» Да. Теперь они украинскими депутатами не станут. Теперь — «можливо».Это еще один шаг к завершению проекта. ('Ukrainian "It's impossible that people like Givi, Motorola will become deputies". Back to Russian, 'Yes, now they will not become Ukrainian deputies, now it is 'possible (Ukr.)' . This is one more step towards finishing the project' (text).
 * The rest of it offers 'not to think' who will benefit, and raising doubt on Ukrainian capability to do such assassination. However, Shmels are easily available to Ukraine, and there are enough people with military experience. In social media, some pro-Ukrainian activists claiming prior knowledge and Ukrainian responsibility, too (copied here), FWIW. --Resup (talk) 02:42, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

A fake was published by Novaya Gazeta claiming ex-opolchenie responsibility, made from a hacked social media account. OK, that fake is-- fake. (Details: Cassad; Rusvesna).--Resup (talk) 02:42, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Poroshenko as an agent of Strelkov
Strelkov persistently argues along the lines that Ukraine has no intention of fulfilling Minsk agreements, that it will not bring about peace, and that although Russia does not want a fight, it cannot be avoided. That Ukraine, having over-sized army and economic disaster, is not even in a position to stop the fight; etc. So far, Poroshenko appears consistent in following this overall scenario. --Resup (talk) 13:37, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Poroshenko: Political provisions of the Minsk agreements can be implemented only after the undeniable progress in their security component, 10 February 2017

Ukrainian sources
I do not often highlight Ukrainian sources as I feel they are less reliable; and also that part of the story is 'under Obamacare': it has the advantage in coverage by Western mainstream mass media. But nobody has a monopoly on truth, so a look at recent official ATO reports here (official ATO reports are also linked at the end of the main news page).

20 Nov. Commander of UAF reconnaisance group (128 mountain infantry brigade) Constantine Shramko is reported killed near Peski. According to Rusvesna, his group came under mortat fire on DPR territory. Ukrainian sources report his death without giving details.

19 Nov. ATO presser: ''Ukrainian Security Service yesterday liberated Illia Bogdanov who had been kidnapped by Russian intelligence services. Illia Bogdanov is a former officer of the Russia Federation Federal Secrutiy Service (FSB) who refused to obey illegal orders and defected to Ukraine. Law enforcement agencies started searching for Bogdanov on November 14 after they received information that the man was missing. “Owing to joint efforts of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), General Prosecutor’s Office and the National Police we found out that the Russian intelligence planned to kidnap and kill him on the territory of Russia. They planned to take Bogdanov across Ukrainian-Russian border with the help of their recruited accomplices in Ukraine. Alfa special forces unit managed to prevent the crime in time, liberated Bogdanov and detained the enemy’s agents.''

Sharii video disproves/casts serious doubt on the claim. According to Sharii, Bogdanov is a 'border patrol fish inspector' (= neutrally, a border guard), not FSB (Sharii does not give a source but he has many sources on the ground and is typically well informed). Further, he shows Bogdanov kidnappers apprehension video, which is presented by Ukrainian sources as the real deal, filmed right near the border with Russia and preventing kidnappers escaping (they planned to tie Bogdanov to a tree on the Russian side, according to those sources). However Bogdanov himself mentions in an article that he took part in an 'investigative experiment', which implies that the recording is not real. Furthermore, there is no conceivable use of such an 'experiment' which is really a staged apprehension--this is propaganda and there is nothing is to be learned from such staged acting.
 * More doubts raised by journalists (author is US-based Ukrainian diaspora, his contact is Ukrainian, possibly this, working in a company in Ivano-frankovsk ). (1:03) into the video, caller says: there was no snow in Kharkov region (snow is shown on the rescue video); the jeep was stationary, and there were lots of footprints around as if multiple takes were made. 'Alpha' is not acting toughly. Captive has hands tied in front and is sitting on the back seat while his captures are in front--that would not be done in real circumstances. Another video of theirs. --Resup (talk) 04:33, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Ukraine: 1 civilian woman and 1 UAF soldier injured. UAF soldier wounded 20 days earlier died in a hospital in Dnepr(opetrovsk) -Rusvesna. 2 UAF soldiers died mishandling weapons -Rusvesna.

18 Nov 1 UAF wounded

17 Nov, 1 UAF killed in action, one wounded.

16 Nov. 2 UAF wounded

CIA and FBI agents "urgently withdrawn" from Ukraine, Fort Russ--based on controversial Ukrainian ex-MP brief statement apparently made at a talk show--watched those rumbling shows but could not quickly locate him saying it-- and reported in Russian press; translated by Fort Russ (saved here based on date but may go elsewhere later).

...

2 Nov 2 UAF killed and 5 wounded

--Resup (talk) 15:45, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Nikolai Dulskii
Here tells that there were 3 sniper groups on Maidan, one was Western/Western controlled according to him (led by somebody from one of the Baltic states; he gives a name like аудрусу буткавичус, -never heard the name, could not find, and possibly misspelled or inaccurate). He attributes control of the two other groups to Pashinskii, Parubii, and two generals from interior ministry. He says he was there himself and assisted in gaining control of one of the buildings to establish a firing position. Longer version here. Again 'Mesto Vstrechi' talk show, now 28 Nov; and that guy Igor Markov sits nearby, a regular.

Longer interview here. Blames Pashinskii, Parubii, Avakov for initiating the shooting, few Baltic states participants (he talks about such group was killed, unclear by whom), eventually Berkut shot back too, according to him. Makes some unlikely/unreliable claims, too, like Strelkov possibly working for Turchinov, based on some rumors. Gives other interesting unknown details. His reliability, uncertain; did not know about this person before. Possibly Slavic nationalist (not rabid crazy but some of that clearly present), and/or disagreeing with the post-Maidan in power. Made appearances on ANNA news, etc.--Resup (talk) 02:21, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Kidnappings?
This might be related to the Ilya Bogdanov kidnapping. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:16, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Russian Servicemen Kidnapped in Crimea by Ukrainian Operatives - ''Sputnik, November 21, 2016
 * ''The ministry said on Monday that the two soldiers were kidnapped on November 20, and taken across the border to the Nikolayev region of Ukraine with an apparent goal of pressing charges against them. They also expressed concern that authorities may use psychological and physical torture to coerce the two men into falsely confessing to crimes against Ukraine.

23 Feb.?
Ukrainian journalist Alexander Medinskii walks on Kiev streets and asks people whether they will celebrate 23 February 'Red Army' day, changed in Ukraine to 14 October (traditional Cossack holiday, as well as accepted day of OUN establishment. Roughly 1/3 will not answer any questions at all (he first asks 'can I ask you a question?'), the rest is split roughly equally between those who do and those who don't. One answer, it's holiday of aggressor; other non-celebrants, just don't, with no strong feelings on display. Conducted in Russian, occasionally switching to Ukrainian ('aggressor' said in Russian, while one Ukrainian-speaker is celebrating...)  --Resup (talk) 16:43, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Russian Sources
" They can 'croak it in' ": Moscow warned about the possible appearance in the Donbass of "more serious" volunteers and weapons systems, Russian MP Vycheslav Nikonov on national TV show (60 minutes, Russia 1). video, Rusvesna, translated at Fort Russ. (Well, this is not more than a talking head, but the talk is getting different...) --Resup (talk) 16:00, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Multimedia
Russian patriotic rock chic Chicherina in Donbass for 23 February concert, with a song 'To Tear', written after Motorola (and Givi) killing. (clip, with recent Donbass footage ); (in concert live); (text).
 * Most rock bigs are anti-war, some strongly critical of Chicerina, which is mutual ... --Resup (talk) 22:43, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Once on the topic, Donbass defenders-my hand turned to a fist multimedia hit based on Victor Tsoi song (1990), with profi mixed Donbass war footage and Eng. subs), + American dude selfie video, watching that clip and not having a clue --Resup (talk) 23:21, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
 * PS. Genuine video with Tsoi does not exist, only audio; he died in a car crash after recording an early version. There are remakes by his band "Kino" and by others (Polina Gagarina above).

DPR/LPR

 * Проникновение украинской ДРГ на территорию Республики: двое бойцов ДНР погибли, один захвачен в плен, (Ukrainian RSG penetrated DPR territory, 2 soldiers killed and one captured), 9 Oct. 2016
 * DPR Kominternovo: walk in the ruined settlement, 9 Oct. 2016
 * Report and video, Trudovskoe, Petrovski district of Donetsk. Family with children lost both their home and temporary summer shed, happened 8 Oct. 2016
 * Report from Avdeevka industrial zone, 'Sut' Vremeni', 15 Oct. 2016
 * Shows craters from large caliber artillery; exploded 'Uragan' cluster munition; UAV above. DPR shoots at UAV, shots than fired in there direction. Medical cords to stop blood loss delivered from Russia, paid by private donations.


 * DPR Zhabunki: Ghost village at the front line (Eng. subs), 15 Oct. 2016
 * Homes destroyed by Ukrainian mortar shelling in the buffer zone. Some damage is fresh. It is said that people left this village at the start of the war, 2014
 * --Resup (talk) 10:29, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Ukraine

 * Channel 17 (Ukraine), April 24, 2015. Interviews DPR residents on the streets, "how is your life in DPR?". Answers are all of the sort 'difficult, but OK', 'hope for the better', and similar. --Resup (talk) 18:00, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Wooden bicycle invented-"TSN" special project, #EUKRAINE, history of Ukrainians who believed in their abilities and created successful business in Europe, Oct. 2016
 * --Resup (talk) 18:00, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Photos
Photo report from Zaitsevo, Liza Reznikova, 11 Oct. 2016

Flash-Mobs
Singing flashmobs in Ukraine and Russia, mostly popular Soviet-era classics, 1930's to 1980's, from movies and such. Entered on main news page, December 2016. Will copy/move here later.--Resup (talk) 05:12, 6 December 2016 (UTC)


 * First in the series: Started in Zaporozhie, November 13, 2016. 83 people, some of them local musical students of vocal, sang a song from a popular 1950's movie "Spring on Zarechnaya Street". It was organised by a local TV5 station, on the occasion of 83 anniversary of Zaporozhstal metalwork plant, but subsequently received significant following in Ukraine, Donbass, and Russia. Performance ; textfilm-ru.wiki film-youtube
 * The rest is on the main news page at the moment, will move mostly here, hopefully with some editing/better organizing, when I get a chance
 * Amateur mini-concert in a marketplace, Krasnodon, LPR video. Title song, 'Here somebody walked down the hill', folk song origins, Russian and Ukrainian language versions, adapted and re-transcribed by the Soviets in pre and post WW2 periods (history) text.

This is an interesting and cool phenomenon. I've read on a German blog that it started with, or was inspired by this song (lyrics) by Igor Rasteryaev, which laments the fraternal war and states that against the will of all devils foreign and domestic, in the end the birds over these battle fields will still sing Slavic. --CE (talk) 14:58, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Hm, Rasteryaev -did not know him before, though he has a pretty notable youtube following. He is quite good. What's here is probably of a bit different flavor, and may be difficult to explain and translate as cultural things are least translatable. Not sure how many details would be a good balance, but here's a try. Rasteryaev is a bard singer, a single man enterprise, with hot-topical, hard to disagree text; yet, some may like his songs and some don't, it's still a matter of taste and a choice. What's here, is possibly less individual -and although it actually does not matter, still - probably somebody helped to organize this locally, --as most of the things which have any chance to get some traction--and somebody else sang, etc. Those songs --they were not hot-topical at all, they were folk or feel-goodies types from the 1950s era. Yet, there is no option to like them or not, because they are from an era, and a different now gone universe, and in that era- there were just few songs and movies, but those became part of the soul fabric, of who you are as a person, which cannot be changed, as you can't change your childhood. (A bit like if you are raised on Beatles/Stones, but next, the whole Western world  sunk in a ball of fire, and you are only left with the choice between the Papua or Amazon forest trombones; --and suddenly, somebody just puts on the old tape). -  No matter how good or hot-topical is a modern performer, he would be like a modern Greek trying to out-compete the ancient Greece --no chance at all, even with the full support of the Federal Reserve and the State Department, and even if they prove that the ancient Greece was hologramically puppet-mastered by the evil Putin personally.  --Resup (talk) 02:36, 16 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The German blogger writes that Rasteryaev came to fame through the internet starting around 2010. His followers had been eagerly waiting for his comment on Ukraine as he is known for giving the "Russian soul" a voice, but he didn't do so until this song published this September. Its text, the blogger says, inspired the Flash Mobs (an internet phenomenon as well, so plausible) singing these old songs exactly for the reason that they are a common heritage as you describe, like the birds over the fields in the song do against the wishes of the devils. Hence the blog article is titled "Singen gegen die Teufel" (singing against the devils). --CE (talk) 05:47, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Earlier/Unrelated
(2015) Krasnodar, Russia girls beautifully sing 'Horse' -'I'll be out at night in a field' (video) (text)(historic-Lube group).

(27 Feb. 2015-day of Nemtsov murder, New York). Vackarchuk tribute to Boris Nemtsov, --switching to Russian mid-way. Another tribute of his, now with his favorite childhood Russian song "Hope", in slightly accented Russian (April, 2015, Russian opposition channel TV Rain).


 * Vakarchuk
 * Ukrainian folk song Ой, чий там кінь стоїть (Oy, whose horse is standing there), in Vackarchuk rendition, over picturesque Polish movie of Bohdan Khmelnytsky period. In the movie, it's Polish noblemen (szlachcic, pans) and a model princess, against devilish Cossack colonel and his rowdy crowd of Cossacks, hardly distinguishable from bandits and Tatars in Khmelnytsky camp. While Poles are rowdy yet proper nobles of superior sort (cheating and cruelty?--well nevermind). A look-down on Ukrainians; no such attitude from Russian side. (video)(text)(movie, part 1/4, other parts on youtube too)
 * Не твоя війна -not your war, 2015 (video).
 * Another superb song with anti-war undertone, Мить (a moment) - (video) (text), 2015.

Mireille Mathieu & Les Choeurs De L' Armee Rouge : " Le Temps Du Muguet ", Oct 11, 2014 --Resup (talk) 05:25, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Red army choir tribute

Opolchenie
It is reported (also here) that LPR commander Armen Bagiryan "Baggi" was killed, according to Galina Sozanchuk, a volunteer who knew him well. "His car came under fire between villages Rodakovo and Zheltoe, near Salvyanosebrsk", on LPR controlled territory. Baggi was a Russian-Armenian volunteer. Unclear what exactly happened. --Resup (talk) 17:07, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Motorola killing appears to be aimed at creating chaos, more war. His building was well guarded, raising possibility of accusations of insider job. However there is no reason for this, he was not politically active or involved in commercial part, and he did not associate himself with anybody possibly unpopular among DPR leadership. On the side of Ukraine, military significance of his murder is not really high (he will be replaced as a commander) but it creates more hatred, war, in minds and in symbolic/media imagery (social media war on his public image ongoing). As with journalist Shermet murder in Ukraine, appears to be designed to cause maximal chaos and upheaval--Resup (talk) 11:45, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

TASS Dossier, commanders killed in DPR/LPR, 17 Oct. 2016 --Resup (talk) 19:17, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Editing, Formats, etc.
We should agree on a date format. As we archive the stuff monthly we don't need year anyway, but atm we have [Number of Day] [Written shortened Month]. on the Syria News and [Written shortened Month]. [Number of Day] here, which looks a bit odd side by side. Peeks into the archive make it look like you Resup have historically used the European format [Number of Day]. [Number of Month]. I think we should definitely keep the written month to not confuse our US-American friends. ;o) My argument for the format I have used the last days, trying to make sense of what intuition told me, is that the point is between the date and the content, which looks a bit more structured. But the other way around would be fine for me as well. --CE (talk) 21:02, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, will revert to your format --Resup (talk) 21:32, 5 October 2016 (UTC)