File talk:Houla Armored.png

Date?
We don't know when the celebration happened, only that the video was uploaded a month later. Everything looks quite untouched there compared to the UNSMIS video and the other video description says "after the liberation". It could well be during the days in question. --CE 21:11, 2 October 2012 (EST)
 * True, noted. Something tells me the video is pretty fresh, but it doesn't really matter. --Caustic Logic 21:20, 2 October 2012 (EST)
 * There are two burnt out APC's on the UN video; one facing south and this one facing north.
 * On the UN video the Syrian Army is seen back in control of Main Street. (Or who are the soldier in camo and Kevlar helmets?) The rebel Brigade video must be earlier. It is very fresh, as the sand spilled from the sandbags has a red, dry color. It has not yet been disturbed by rain, wind or traffic. -- Petri Krohn 22:09, 2 October 2012 (EST)


 * I kind of thought two, but they look so similar... Thanks.
 * And yes, back in control after, except not really in control, getting pinned down, etc. They have access. Little security, nothing much to govern except a road and a honeycomb of sniper nests. Or so it seems, but maybe it's more complex than that. --Caustic Logic 22:32, 2 October 2012 (EST)


 * It seems to me that the army tried to take back control over main street (coming from the south) during the weekend, but then gave up. Remember that Thomson on his Wednesday visit found a calm city, and says they had passed the last army checkpoint into no-mans-land while they are shown driving up main street. So the rebel celebration could be early in the week. --CE 22:42, 2 October 2012 (EST)


 * We have two videos of the same scene. It should be possible to confirm which was earlier by comparing details. Se far the details I have looked at point to them being simultaneous. -- Petri Krohn 23:11, 2 October 2012 (EST)
 * The UN foottage is earlier. The red dirt seen in the rebel video did not spill out from broken sandbags, but was dumped on the spot to fill new ones. At 12 seconds into the video we see a cluster of newly filled sandbags just south of the APC. The same spot is seen empty in the UN video and in our screenshot. -- Petri Krohn 00:14, 3 October 2012 (EST)


 * Yes, I agree, no sandbags and red dirt in the UN video. Also there's a black cable or something going along the side of the vehicle, which is gone in the rebel video (seen in the pic). --CE 01:04, 3 October 2012 (EST)


 * Yes, I noted the cable. It is a tow cable and most likely is permanently attached from the other end. It is possible, that the child moved it. Looking at the videos more closely I am no longer sure of the timing. The sandbags look more deteriorated in the UN video. There is a pile of sand under them that I cannot see in the rebel video. -- Petri Krohn 07:09, 3 October 2012 (EST)


 * But there are no traces of sandbags "left of" the vehicle in the UN video, while the red stuff is also nowhere to be seen but all over the place in the rebel video. I think it's highly unlikely that someone took the broom while fighting was going on. Nah, i'm quite convinced that the rebel video is later. I tried to check the french documentary again, there is a scene with some vehicles on main street which could show the place on Sunday, filmed by Gomez, but it won't play any more for now. Did you see that? CL can't get it to play at all but I took the series of screenshots and made some notes on the forum (while my French is tres terrible). --CE 07:30, 3 October 2012 (EST)


 * The Main Street checkpoint is seen at 9:59. It shows the same pile of sand and freshly filled sandbags as the rebel brigade video. Most of the material on the documentary is from YouTube. We should find the original sources. -- Petri Krohn 09:56, 3 October 2012 (EST)


 * It seems to me that the guy "Abu Hassan" they skype with and show his videos is clearly your "Houla Media Center" guy. A lot of other youtube stuff, that's right, but the most interesting part with original footage is in the four minutes from 17:53 on, what Gomez' team filmed. At 18:25 is a view that could need some more analysis in this context ... red dirt, sandbags, possibly the same spot, no vehicle. If this matches (not sure, likely not) we could nail the rebel video down to Sunday morning. --CE 11:40, 3 October 2012 (EST)


 * Yes, the red dirt is there at 18 something. When was Catalina Gomez there? -- Petri Krohn 12:12, 3 October 2012 (EST)


 * Together with Thomson on Sunday - you can see him coming out of a house on the left at 18:55 before Gomez enters "Ali's house". The flowery blanket seen shortly before is also seen in Thomson's own report. --CE 12:44, 3 October 2012 (EST)

There is another view of the security HQ on Panaramio, uploaded by houla graphic (User H.G HoulaGraphic on YouTube) on June 14th: It may be, that a tracked vehicle has turned around in front of the building. Similar marks can be seen on the rebel video. -- Petri Krohn 06:07, 4 October 2012 (EST)
 * http://www.panoramio.com/photo/73738127

The Times video labeled "two days after the massacre" shows the pile of sand and the fresh sandbags. The Syrian Army is still there. -- Petri Krohn 09:55, 5 October 2012 (EST)

French documentary

 * Moved to Talk:Houla, autopsie d’un massacre

Thanks for the link to the French documentary...
 * See Houla, autopsie d’un massacre.