Talk:Hama Massacres

Idea
I've been kicking ass, obviously, on the Homs Massacres page, and it seemed near time to do one for Hama. There are two ways to do this, inspired and normal. Inspired will require others to be inspired, by this idea, which seemed cool to me: replicate that effort with Hama but way quicker, a few people teaming up to get 32 massacres listed and analyzed partly, by the end of January - just before the 32nd anniversary of the infamous and little-inderstood 1982 Hama massacre. That way, I could simultaneously draft an article mentioning relevant previous work, but based on the gimmick of studying a new Hama massacre for every year since the one. Those commemorating the one always call for punishment of the regime, and to be different we can call for an investigation of the truth, of that and the new bloodshed ... Mm, typing it out, maybe it's not such an amazing idea. I may be moving to a different place this month too, cutting into my available time (that emerged after I first had this idea). Well, it's out there. --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:18, 3 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Then the page start was lame, and the first tries at filling it in were confusing, and the whole scope thing is unclear, so ... it's still out there for anyone to grab, but now I'd rather go back to other stuff for now. Sorry for the mess, will fix this up fairly soon. --Caustic Logic (talk) 10:25, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Geographic Scope
(starting thoughts, no rush) Obviously this covers Hama, Salamiya, etc. Rastan is the big question. It may deserve its own page. Aqrab might best be included with the Houla page. To the north, I think maybe Khan Shaykhoun is the farthest city of any size (though I'm vague on what orbits would take in that further north). To the East, I don't know, up to Sheikh Hilal? --Caustic Logic (talk)

Complete Timeline
(forthcoming)

(until then...)

Existing Pages

 * June 6, 2012: Mazraat al-Qubeir massacre
 * Tremseh massacre
 * December 25, 2012 Maan Massacre
 * Halfaya Bakery Bombing
 * Buraq Factory Bombing
 * Talk:Khunayfis Massacre

(boy, that's not many) --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:18, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

New Suggestions
(forthcoming - gimme ten minutes) --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:18, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

I check VDC martrs for October, 2011, whole month, for field executed civilians from Hama province, kind of at random. Surprisingly, it shows only three. It's not that early. Is Hama that much smaller than Homs? Anyway, a Darwish man and a Sulaiman woman killed October 28th, in Malaab: south, and Janub al-Mala'ab. Janub means south. Not qualifying.

Up to end of the year, including more options for intentional massacre, and including non-civilians, alleged defected soldiers, etc.: 44 names. And there are two obvious massacres. I'll grab one. Anyone else want the other? Check suspicious "shelling" deaths for such patterns? Etc.? --Caustic Logic (talk) 12:49, 3 January 2014 (UTC)


 * November 2, 2011: Talf Massacre. This includes all 7 martyrs in all Hama province that day, listed as shooting, filed execution, or mostly as kidnapping-execution. All are adult males, listed as civilian, three with the family name Qasem. ... Rebels wound up with their bodies and made plenty of videos, with links included with each entry. v1 v2  v4. Otherwise, there's little. No ages, no notes with the story. We're left presuming Shabiha or whoever did this, since they're listed as "martyrs."  --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:00, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Ooh, odd... it almost fits here, but it's also one of the Houla Massacres I never looked into. Talf must means Talaf on Wikimapia. It's on the Homs side, actually, but right by Rastan, between it and al-Houla. The LCC's daily report lists nothing violent in Hama province this day:
 * Syria: 25 martyrs today, 21 of them are in Homs only, one martyr on Deir Ezzor, one martyr in Erbeen, one in Idlib and one in Damascus

But this incident - 11 martyrs, not 7 - is the top story of the day.
 * Homs: Hawleh: The bodies of 11 civilians hand-cuffed and executed in a small factory by the security forces.
 * Al-Houle | Homs | (GRAPHIC) Security Forces Massacre, 9 Martyrs
 * ''Homs: Hawleh: The bodies of 11 martyrs, who worked in a block factory belonging to Mr. Mua'mmar Al-Khudr, from Kafr Laha, were discovered today. One of the bodies belonged to the brother of the factory owner, Mulham Al-Khudr.  ''

This leads to checking if these seven Hama men are even related, or is there another batch from Homs? Nothing like that appears in Homs' list of 16 for the day. But a Mulham Ameen Al kheder from Kafarlaha at least does. --Caustic Logic (talk) 13:28, 3 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Houla page, Homs, page, Hama page? I'm confused by now.--Caustic Logic (talk) 13:28, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Obviously, checking later in the war helps.
 * February 24: all 10 martyrs in Halfaya Six, including children, are named Wazza. Six are listed as field executed, the others (including a Wazza boy and a Daboull man) were shot (the latter by a "sniper"), or shelled (two boys of other families). All-in-all, two men, one woman, 7 children. Muayad Abd Azeez Waza, farmer, age 36, married with children. Mother's name: Subhia. Martyrdom location: Shier village. video video. A boy is listed as having mother's name: Ahlam Hamoud, so his mother ("wifehouse," 32, mother: Mariam) was killed, alsofor seven of this family at Shier village, where it seems they lived. They were likely robbed as well by the government-backed Shabiha. One of the shelled boys (photo - intact - from shelling that was "continuous," regime, random) has a mother named Khadija Hamoud - related to Ahlam? (all this mother-naming is unusual, BTW). --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:47, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Al-Noaemi Family, December 2013

 * ''On December 28, 7 members of the al-Noaemi family were reported massacred in the "Ezzedine" area of Homs province, apparently here on Wikimapia, between Rastan and Salmiya. VDC list for Ezzedine, all December = 10 martyrs, nine from this family. On December 28:


 * Abdullah Khaled al-Seoud al-Matar al-Noeimi Ez al-Deen Salim - Cause of Death: Other. Notes: The family of Abdulla Khaled Saoud al-Matar al-Noaemi slaughtered by Shabbiha forces, including his 6 children.
 * Shortened descriptions for the mostly-unnamed others: Abdullah's wife, Najem, Sohail, daughter 1, daughter 2, family 7, all listed as Adult-Male, and apparently incomplete. Same day, different family: Usama Awad al-Matar killed in Ezzedine by "shelling." Different day, same family: Nour al-Huda Husain al-Saroot al-Noaemi girl, age 2, photo after death, and Mohammad Aysar al-Fayad al-Noaemi boy, baby by the photo, both killed December 23, five days before their relatives, by random "warplane shelling," specifically with "explosive barrels." Otherwise it seems to remain a fairly quiet town. --Caustic Logic (talk) 14:47, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

There's another town, Tlul Homer, right next door, prety quiet except for the same day, [http://www.vdc-sy.info/index.php/en/martyrs/1/c29ydGJ5PWEua2lsbGVkX2RhdGV8c29ydGRpcj1ERVNDfGFwcHJvdmVkPXZpc2libGV8ZXh0cmFkaXNwbGF5PTB8cHJvdmluY2U9MTB8dGhpc0RhdGU9MjAxMy0xMi0yOHw= VDC list for all Hama province (so which is it?) has two more. Fatima Ez al-Deen al-Nakoue al-Noeiami adult female Abd al-Razzaq Mohammad Khair al-Nakoue al-Noeaimi child, male - "Martyred due to regime`s army forces sporadic shelling," the notes say. The only people in that town, that day, martyred by anything, except for Ibraheem Mohammad al-Khaled adult male. Another Khaled man was shelled that day up in Soran here, along with six other people, mostly of the Hamoudeh family (see same link).--Caustic Logic (talk) 15:10, 3 January 2014 (UTC)