Talk:Shahed 136

Pro-Ukrainian claims

 * Iranian Shahed-136 Kamikaze Drones Already Used By russia (First Photos And Specs) - Defense Express, September 13, 2022
 * Shahed-136 is an Iranian kamikaze drone, which russia tried to disguise under the name M412 Geran-2 in Ukraine


 * Iranian attack drones have reached the battlefield, Ukraine’s military says(Mirrored) - New York Times, September 18, 2022
 * In its first use in Ukraine, the Iranian drone blew up a U.S.-supplied M777 howitzer used by the Ukrainian military, Col. Rodion Kulagin, commander of artillery operations in the Kharkiv counteroffensive, said in an interview.

Iranian multi-laucher
The footage is from Great Phophet 17 exercises (ISWNews) December, 2021
 * Video Twitter @UkrainianNews24 - also @mjbrodka -This video is from Iran’s NOBLE PROPHET 17 exercise in early ‘22. It shows a combined ballistic missile and one way attack UAV strike using a #shahed136 multi launcher. These Iranian drones are used by the Houthis and now operated by Russia in Ukraine.
 * 'Great Prophet 17,' Iran Showers Ballistic Missiles On Mockup Of Israel's Dimona Reactor In 5-day Drill - Meera Surash, International Business Times, September 29, 2021
 * The report quoted Iran’s Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces, Maj. Gen. Mohammad Bagheri, who claimed the drill included the simultaneous launch of 16 ballistic missiles as well as 10 Shahed-136 loitering munitions or "suicide drones."

Pro-Russian claims

 * Russian troops used the Geran-2 kamikaze drone against the positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, similar to Iranian drones Shahed-136 - Soldat.Pro, September 13, 2022

Denials from Russian side

 * About Iranian "UAVs" - Andrei Martyanov, August 10, 2022
 * Moscow responds to claims it received Iranian drones - RT News, August 30, 2022
 * No, Iran Will Not Deliver Armed Drones To Russia - Moon of Alabama, July 11, 2022

Official Iranian statements

 * Iranian top diplomat denies selling drones to Russia - First Channel News, July 13, 2022
 * Iran responds to Ukraine diplomatic demotion over Russia drones - Al Jazeera, September 24, 2022
 * American officials have claimed since July that Tehran was preparing to sell “hundreds” of the aircraft to Moscow, and later said Iran also trained Russian pilots on how to use the drones. Iran’s foreign ministry previously rejected the claims, saying the country will not assist either side of the war,...

Mercer Street attack
See Talk:MercerStreet

Drone Identified?
The US assesses that the Mercer was hit by a Shahed 136 (according to this source) delta winged drone. (video of Ansarallah drone on display) apparently called 'Wa'id', here Al Masirah - طائرة #وعيد المسيرة - مواصفات الطائرة الهجومية وعيد بمدى يتخطى الـ2500 كم.

More details on US story. Articles state that this type of drone was used in the big Aramco attacks, but as far as I know that isn't right. The evidence from there was not for delta winged kamikazi drones. Yemen spokesman referred to Samad 3 drones as involved in that multifaceted attack. Those drones were likely deploying guided munitions over the targets rather than being of the kamikaze type.

The supporting evidence publicly available for the identification seems sketchy, inconclusive. However, the stabilising wing tip unit shown from the debris is similar that on the Yemeni drone featured here. Does the Yemeni drone shown match an Iranian Shahed 136, if the latter exist...?


 * Israeli-linked tanker attacked by sophisticated Iranian drones - Business Market, July 31, 2021
 * Some of the Iranian drones mentioned in sources may not exist, such as the Shahed-136, which was allegedly sent to Yemen in January, in order to target Israel.

From Cassad - ''According to the British statement, the UAV-kamikaze tanker Shahed 136, which is allegedly produced only in Iran, was attacked. This is frankly not true, since these machines are actively used in Yemen and the Houthis have been using this machine for a long time (the Houthis both receive drones from Iran and assemble them in Yemen) for strikes against the Islamists in Yemen and Saudi Arabia, which is facilitated by the high range of use of this machine-2200 km.''

--

Yes, the drone looks like the Yemeni drone. But Americans show no proof that the drone has ever existed in Iran or anywhere outside Yemen. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 20:57, 9 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The purported debris of a wing tip is at best a partial match for the delta wing drone. The recovered wing tip looks set further back from the rear fin part than we see when looking at the whole assemblage (same also I think, for Newsweek's Shahed 136). Given the damage the blast did to the iron deck one might question whether such light materials would survive the explosion uncharred and just intact enough to support an identification. --Diagonal (talk) 20:39, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Non-charring: possible, impact fuse delay, may break into pieces before exploding. (No guarantees on what happened overall, from the couch) --Resup (talk) 21:22, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Reliability of evidence


As with the photo provided by the US Nayy after the Mercer Street attack, the Ukrainian photo of a tail fin is not totally convincing. The 'recovered' fins are attached to the rear of the assembly. In the images of the Waeed and the Shahed drones in the launcher, the tail flap unit is seen as independently movable of the rear fins. I suspect that the photos may be of mocked up debris, or at least they match poorly with images available of complete drones. There are twitter videos (#shahed 136, #geran) with blurry footage of deltawing drones. I don't know currently, if Russsia has its own delta wing drones, but I also can't rule out that they are digitally manipulated videos. As far as I can tell some pro-russian sources have picked up Ukrainian claims. With the media coverage any delta wing drone flying is liable to be identified by locals as a Geran. --Diagonal (talk) 11:54, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The debris photos could possibly match with the wingtip fin and the rear corner of the delta wing, with the tail flap missing. --Diagonal (talk) 12:06, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
 * But I think there would not be room for the tail flap - behind the apparent join of the stabilising fin with the wing tip - without the tail flap extending behind the fins, which does not appear to be the case with the Shahed-136 or Waeed. --Diagonal (talk) 12:25, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Israeli anti-drone systems

 * What could motivate planting a story?... Ukraine getting around Israel's ban on selling them advanced defence tech and getting access to Israeli anti-UAV technology, by hyping up a story about Iranian systems? --Diagonal (talk) 13:01, 29 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Israel reportedly permitting anti-UAV system transfer to Ukraine - Bruce Crumley, DroneDJ, September 19, 2022
 * Ukraine: Israel provided ‘a little intel’ on Iran’s support for Russia - Jewish News Sindicate, September 25, 2022