Talk:Ukraine news

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It is currently unclear which way things are heading, so it is simpler to try to keep up to news on one clean page, and try to have significant developments updated on main pages. (I am not sure I will keep to this format, but we will see)--Resup (talk) 12:57, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The objective way you write this stuff is absolutely fit for an article page, not a "Talk" page (edit:or more than one, feel free to expand as you see fit, this rolls as it rolls even though it is called ACLOSyria). You could do it chronologically without having to sign it all the time, like I did with the Kobane article. Anyway, thanks for your contributions, Resup, much appreciated. :o) --CE (talk) 18:36, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Chronicle
TASS Chronicle-link to daily updates, (Russian),  TASS  - Ukraine (English)
 * easiest to search

Rusvesna-news (Russian),   rusvesna (English). ---  Opolchenie version of events.

TSN (Ukraine) (Ukrainian or Russian). Ukrainian version of events.

--Resup (talk) 14:25, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Maps
map --nearby Debaltsevo, 02.02.2015 (Cassad)

February,2015
20.02 Is there going to be peace now, or is this a lull in fighting? I honestly have no idea. This war does not really make any sense, so than having peace does. Many are skeptical (that includes Strelkov, who keeps saying the same thing of war-is-unavoidable sort; as well as the Right Sector. Many others repeat what they hear on TV and MSM). No direct contact between Kiev and Novorossia, and suppression of any grassroot pro-peace sentiment makes this quite uphill; but not like impossible. --Resup (talk) 18:02, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Poshenko orders urgent measures to counter Russian info-war aggression, performed using foreing and domestic mass media. --Resup (talk) 15:56, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Father of Ukrainian soldier sentenced for 9 year for treason (allegedly helping Russian secret services) asks Zakharchenko to include his son in prisoners exchange. That young kid never in an actual battle yet. But he bought a wristwatch at a Moscow shop on Lubyanka over internet before his arrest (also was drafter and served in Donetsk, in 2012; and was attending Russian orthodox church). According to his father on the video, he was reported by his commander because of the watch purchase. The commander was than promoted to colonel, for uncovering dangerous enemy. (Sounds a bit gross but does not mean it's untrue; there are awful ways to get promoted, East or West). --Resup (talk) 15:56, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Curious Filatov open letter to Poroshenko, republished on Cassad. Basically tells Poroshenko to stop lying (about losses at Debaltsevo scale, in that instance). At the same time, making clear that considers Poroshenko a patriot, and that very unlikely anybody else would want to be in his shows now (Filatov is in Kolomoiskii team, which makes it interesting to hear. --Resup (talk) 16:09, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

15.02 Cassad on upcoming provocations: top photo, Russian artillery to the North East of Debaltsevo. I am not clear what is this supposed to show, but Cassad comments that this is somehow for the USA to accuse Russia of something. Next document, in Ukrainian, with SBY header, is ordering to inform all such mass media which is controlled by official and state structures to cover with great urgency any violations of ceasefire by terrorist LPR and DPR, or Russian regular forces. Than there is something about blocking/turning off worrisome/troublemaking terrorist web sites listed, rusvesna, RT, lifenews, et all --Resup (talk) 19:31, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Tried to check out DNR 24 site; --noted there Philip Ekoziants next end of the world prophecy, "The end of the World is speaking Ukrainian, but it is not his native tongue"  (russ. "Конец Света говорит сегодня по-украински...")  Recording is said to be 0.05 AM on February 10, an insider contacted him to tell that in 48 hours there will be some sort of calamity seen from Kharkov. Well we know already nothing happened in Khrarkov. But potentially serious provocation did happen in Kramatorsk. Ekoziants is a guy who appear to be in some sort of religious exalted state recording his messages, but sometimes he got things right, or may be indeed contacted by insiders from either side. So I do not believe that end-of-the-world-now-speaking-Hebrew-stuff, but not ignoring the existence of such messages altogether. --Resup (talk) 19:31, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

15.02 Yarosh: battalions of the Right Sector do not comply with the Minsk agreements. "Two of my battalion, well armed and equipped, continue to advance under Debaltseve and have serious military results, "- he wrote in a statement posted on the website the National Guard of Ukraine. -TASS --Resup (talk) 06:39, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yarosh publication on Ukrainian National Guard web site appeared shortly after midnight, with some strange peculiarities with dates and re-editing noted; eventually it  disappeared after causing media attention. --Resup (talk) 07:36, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

12.02 But DPR, LPR are said to refuse to sign the document coming from Normandy group (TASS)--so (if this stays as it is), where does it take things now ? Also Poroshenko is quoted saying that some conditions required by Russia are not acceptable. Sources say that final document is 80% agreed. Oh well --Resup (talk) 08:05, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Normandy group finished work after 14 hours of negotiations. While the contact group (with Zakharchenko and Plotniskii now present) started its work at another location in Minsk. Surkov moved there as well. Documents being prepared include ceasefire and beginning of withdrawal of heavy weapons in 2 days    TASS quoting Reuters, German DPA. --Resup (talk) 07:03, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

After 12 hours of negotiations, according to French delegation it is hoped that documents will be signed. Prior to that, Ukrainian sources say border control is remaining sticking point, with locals doing that proposed. Separation may be easier, e.g. broader  separation than agreed initially. RT gives a live stream. --Resup (talk) 05:07, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

11.02 This morning, a bus is hit by UAF shelling in Donetsk, 4  said to be killed, 9 wounded  (TASS), (rusvesna, videos).  --Resup (talk) 08:07, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Looks like somebody getting desperate to try to stop progress in Minsk-and not opolchenie. No reason to stop, just agree to investigate (and stop nonsensical propaganda if possible, it's getting revolting) . --But some genuine disagreement on details may still remain; contact group will try another time in the morning, and depending on results, leaders may go to Minsk later in the day--Resup (talk) 08:45, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Hollande and Merkel decided to go to Minsk TASS (quoting French sources) --Resup (talk) 08:48, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

10.02 Contact group meting ended, time of another meeting is not known. Pushilin said that "it is too early" to start a ceasefire from tomorrow, "we passed our offers to the Contact Group, and we will wait for their response" RIA Novosti--Resup (talk) 22:11, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Poroshenko says that ATO headquarters in Kramatorsk were shelled with MLRS (Uragan or Smerch)  (rusvesna report, videos). Initial Ukrainian reports tell about airport attacked from the air. First video: presenter says it is 12.40 pm on 10 February (later says 1 pm); that there was a tank fire before camera was turned on; that he describes what we see and hear (he thinks it is a fight at the airport, or strong shelling at the airport). Cassad tells that witnesses talked about a fight at the airport. Apparently there were two MLRS salvos, one hit airport, another residential area. 15 killed reported in Ukrainian sources Eastern part of the city hit, Дворцовая,  Шкадинова, street, and  Kramatorsk  Дом связи ('telecom house")
 * DPR denied (rusvesna -quoting Ukrainian source) that they shelled Kramatorsk. Un-exploded missiles, steep angles (suggesting close distance) noted, regarding residential visuals.
 * A missile landed 30 m from OSCE SMM mission, did not explode. Time was 12:33. RIA Novosti-photos. OSCE report says Smerch (or Tornado) fired from SSE, killed 7 civilians, wounded 26 including 5 children. Street locations provided --Resup (talk) 19:28, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * DPR says at present consider this to be provocation by UAF; commission needs to look at all facts. Video from the airport: cluster munitions, 32 UAF wounded, but does not appear to be a very severe hit/causalities. Smerch with cluster warhead range of 70 km, opolchenie at Gorlovka will be some 75 km away, a bit over Smerch range. If it can get there at all, it has to be fired close to 45 degrees, while on most photos it is maybe 70-80 degrees. Opochenie said to capture some Uragans, but I do not remember news that they have or use Smerch--Resup (talk) 23:40, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Poro went to Kramatorsk, made propaganda speech how Russians are killing civilians in totally peaceful city with cluster munitions, brought Bernard Levy with him for more effect. --Resup (talk) 08:01, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Anonymous source claimed to RIA novosti that OSCE, Germany, France insist that Russia take a control function over a demilitarized area in Donbas (rusvesna quoting RIA novosti) (not confirmed by official sources) --Resup (talk) 16:48, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Ukraine attacks near Mariupol, Telmanovo severely shelled by Ukraine, Turchinov said to be there to provide leadership. According to opolchenie, Azov battalion entered neutral villages, installed and photographed near Ukrainian flags; attempts to attack opolchenie check points were repelled (rusvesna). Ukrainian sources,

08.02 TASS referring to le Figaro: negotiations are stalled not by fundamental issues such as sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, but by items such as composition of peacekeeping force. Kiev is categorically opposed to participation of Russian military in such monitoring, or to military from (Russian -lead) Collective Security Treaty Organization. While OSCE monitors were criticized by Donbas opolchenie. Another item of serious disagreements is defining Donbas border line, since opolchenie advanced West since last September.

Could not quicly locate this in le Figaro but have this in place: "Mais outre l'aspect pratique d'un sommet quadripartite, l' «esprit de Normandie» symbolise aussi la volonté d'une diplomatie active et réaliste, ou le duo franco-allemand tente de jouer les médiateurs entre Kiev et le Kremlin, là où les Etats-Unis sont dans la menace". le Figaro. --Resup (talk) 23:56, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

07.02 Western Nations Split on Arming Kiev

President at the meeting with Ukrainian diaspora in Munich: Ukraine will fight and win Hollande broadcast on RT --Resup (talk) 18:07, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

02.02. Opolchenie update, TASS update.

2015 Nikishino taken by NAF

Ukrainian Tochka U on the ground--Resup (talk) 12:57, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Mobilization planned by Novorossia in some 10 days, up to 100 thousand may be called for duty (Cassad) --Resup (talk) 12:57, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Sanctions
Sanctions were introduced by EU and by Canada. EU sanctions include many mainstream figures in LPR and DPR, including Motorola and Givi. Rationale for doing this (and--again!--- right after a step forward in Minsk) is lost on me.
 * Justice. This is not justified at all. For example Motorola and Givi were storming airport which by Minsk is going to DPR anyway. Liberating airport helped reduce civilian casualties in Donetsk to Ukrainian army shelling. So the justification of sanctioning them now is ---what? (Singer Kobzon on Russia's side--what did he do? Sang a song in Donetsk--and so ?. Something like that often happens; e.g.  did not Jane Fonda go to Vietnam?)
 * Effect in the East. On practical side, close to none. Well, may be Kobzon will not get cancer treatment in Europe, but this is about it. To be sure, combined effect of economy (oil prices, exchange rates) and sanctions of course are felt and causing  hardship, but this latest addition does not change anything here. On political side, it will increase anti-Western sentiment,  will give advantage to pro-Putin players, and will make an idea of cooperation with the West rather unpopular. Gives easy ammunition against pro-Western figures, by listing them in the 5 column, with broad popular support for doing that. Whatever economic effect of sanctions is likely to be shifted on those least deserving it.
 * Effect in the West. No idea. An alternative of actually doing something meaningful, and getting reelected--maintaining an appearance of orderly development in order to preserve positions of power and wealth? With human rights added on top for decoration? An alternative of sending weapons? (But this is silly, -why to do a cover up? Weapons may come from somewhere anyway as this is not tightly related to economic sanctions)
 * East-West relations. Very harmful; cannot really expect trust and cooperation and impose sanctions at the same time; no matter what diplomats say, it just does not work like that. There are obviously major unsolved issues elsewhere; and this does not help cooperation in addressing them at all. --Resup (talk) 14:53, 18 February 2015 (UTC)